Final Fantasy Tactics Advance Mafia - Game Over!

[ranmaru]

One more thing I was playing differently simply because I was cop. I wished I could simply talk more but I had to be safe (besides the experimenting). I do like playing VT because I can just go hard.

 

[ranmaru]

It was a good idea, just gotta be careful and making stretches like that Nabe + MC connection case.

Yeah true. I'm going to try to restrain myself from ever posting connection cases like that. Just cases. AND I'm going to weight ALL THE FRICKIN POSTS. ALL OF THEM.

 

[ranmaru]

@DtJ Glyphmoney

Sorry I played kinda bad but I tried my bested <3 Let me know what you thought of my play.

 

[Dabuz]

Hahahahahah! Good plan man.

 

[BarDulL]

yeah town played really well this game, probably why there were so many replacements on the scum side of things

ggs

 

[ranmaru]

yeah town played really well this game, probably why there were so many replacements on the scum side of things

ggs

give us the scum qt you scum

also I was still more ninja than kantrip lol

 

[Dabuz]

give us the scum qt you scum

This so much.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

So I know I am able to play solid it's that sometimes I have snap judgments and things don't go so well. I also realize I always have this blood thirst and overwhelming urge to show how much I want my scumread dead.

You play well. The key is control. Mafia isn't a movie and you're not the lead role. Allow yourself to develop thoughts more quietly (AND TRUST ME YOU USED TO BE UNBEARABLE BACK IN THE DAY HOLY ****) and think about not what will help you in your own mind, but what will help town. You pulled a bone head move on that cop guilt thing, but you know that. The mind is a curious thing. I mean this in the nicest way, but simply control your urge to be a part of the action and just act more when you feel it's appropriate, cuz you DO make good calls. You just... also make some bad ones lol.

 

[Dabuz]

Just checked my notes for this game, 14764 words total x_X Larges are the best and worst type of games.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Ran. Read your posts before you post then and remove things that could be straemanned or misunderstood.

 

[ranmaru]

Ran. Read your posts before you post then and remove things that could be straemanned or misunderstood.

Ok. Can you (or anybody) give an example of something that can be straw-manned? I have no idea. I just here the word "Oh this is a straw-man" but don't really really get it.

 

[Overswarm]

Cuz you're a ****ing g and I should be sucking your fat **** for letting me win.

But no seriously I am curious as to why.

You had no vote. Getting you to agree to be part of a voting block would make you accountable for the actions dabuz and I take because I'd make you accountable for them visibly. I'd have an excuse to openly ask you questions and be like "Yo Gorf what do you think of X?" and you, being an ally, have no reasonable way to avoid answering me. By getting you to answer nonsense questions early on I can force you to answer awkward questions later on or look much more awkward by avoiding an answer.

TL;DR, artificial paper trail for non-voter

plus if you were scum it'd really mess something up.

So I played like ****.

What can I do to improve it here?

For this game not too much. Definitely remove the emotion aspect to your play as it doesn't mesh well for you, it stands out and standing out is bad.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

A straw man is someone taking one point of your case and highlighting how bad it is as a means to undermine the entire thing. People have to defend themselves and strawmen happen naturally as you back and forth with someone defending a weak point.

Generally, you can read your own post and if you can think of what the counterpoint is to your point, it isn't worth posting. You don't need to show everything that contributes to your read. If you are posting a case, you are trying to get a wagon moving. Don't give them anything that isn't high irrefutable and definitely don't give them something they can start a long back and forth with you on. You aren't making it so they can defend themselves, so stop giving them outs.

 

[Overswarm]

Ok. Can you (or anybody) give an example of something that can be straw-manned? I have no idea. I just here the word "Oh this is a straw-man" but don't really really get it.

Straw man arguments often arise in public debates such as a (hypothetical) prohibition debate:

A: We should relax the laws on beer.
B: No, any society with unrestricted access to intoxicants loses its work ethic and goes only for immediate gratification.
The proposal was to relax laws on beer. Person B has exaggerated this to a position harder to defend, i.e., "unrestricted access to intoxicants". It is a logical fallacy because Person A never made that claim.

A: Sunny days are good.
B: If all days were sunny, we'd never have rain, and without rain, we'd have famine and death.
In this case, B falsely frames A's claim to imply that A believes only sunny days are good, and B argues against that assertion. A actually asserts that sunny days are good and, in fact, says nothing about rainy days.

An example often given of a straw man is US President Richard Nixon's 1952 "Checkers speech".[10][11] When campaigning for vice president in 1952, Nixon was accused of having illegally appropriated $18,000 in campaign funds for his personal use. In a televised response, instead of addressing the funds, he spoke about another gift, a dog he had been given by a supporter:[10][11]

It was a little cocker spaniel dog, in a crate he had sent all the way from Texas, black and white, spotted, and our little girl Tricia, six years old, named it Checkers. And, you know, the kids, like all kids, loved the dog, and I just want to say this right now, that, regardless of what they say about it, we are going to keep it.
This was a straw man response; his critics had never criticized the dog as a gift or suggested he return it. This argument was successful at distracting people from the funds, and portraying his critics as nitpicking and heartless. Nixon received an outpouring of public support, remained on the ticket, and was elected by a landslide.

Christopher Tindale presents, as an example, the following passage from a draft of a bill (HCR 74) considered by the Louisiana State Legislature in 2001:[5]

Whereas, the writings of Charles Darwin, the father of evolution, promoted the justification of racism, and his books On the Origin of Species and The Descent of Man postulate a hierarchy of superior and inferior races. . . .

Therefore, be it resolved that the legislature of Louisiana does hereby deplore all instances and all ideologies of racism, does hereby reject the core concepts of Darwinist ideology that certain races and classes of humans are inherently superior to others, and does hereby condemn the extent to which these philosophies have been used to justify and approve racist practices.

Tindale comments that "the portrait painted of Darwinian ideology is a caricature, one not borne out by any objective survey of the works cited. That similar misrepresentations of Darwinian thinking have been used to justify and approve racist practices is beside the point: the position that the legislation is attacking and dismissing is a Straw Man. In subsequent debate this error was recognized, and the eventual bill omitted all mention of Darwin and Darwinist ideology."[5]

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Your connection case can be strawmanned to death, as could that incredibly dumb fake guilty. It almost got your actual result ignored.

 

[ranmaru]

Hmm alright, thank you guys. Also fair enough on the fake guilty almost causing my actual result to being ignored.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

Sorry scum bros, I really feel like when I had the heat on me, I lead town right to everyone else.

To make matters worse, the botch on my claim, I was really sad about that one. I didn't even think of that when I did so I had to get creative to try and make it seem legit. I was happy to get maybe one or two people to believe it but I think my wriggling sank all the scum bros sadly thanks to connections and town playing really well.

Welp, time to try and improve I suppose but not even sure where to look lol.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Noooooooooooo, I wanted Gorf to lose!
j/k good stuff convncing people to let you live.

Am I allowed to do some post-game bragging about how I basically instantly nailed Laundry/Swiss/KWK slot as scum? How I then switched to Nameless/HBW/Bardull right afterwards? How I then proceeded to block Scary's NK on N1? I'm not? OK! ^_^

Liked Glyph's early posts and wish he would've stayed in the game. Good play by Jbizzle ... needs to hate less on good players though. Decent input by MC / Nabe helped things as well. Anybody who thinks mafia is generally easier to play as scum needs to read this game. Town win was nearly entirely the result of J and me having accurate reads and a handful of people [MC, Nabe and Vult mainly] being smart enough to exclude themselves from the lynchpool for most of the game. That's almost all it takes for town to stand a very reasonable chance to win. Meanwhile one mistake can screw the scumteam completely.

This setup favors town imo. I remember scum getting beaten pretty solidly in the first FFT setup and that's not coincidence. Gadgeteer, Illusionist, Priest and Sage cockblock mafia way too hard.

Ryu and Ran, I have no idea wtf you were doing in this game.
One player stood out to me ... in a negative way. Congrats @ #HBC | Dancer on being the first player I actually contemplate blacklisting from my games. Even when @ #HBC | ZoZo was blacklisted by hosts for what he did in BiM Redux I'd let him play in my games. You have definitely crossed the line here though and have once again proven yourself to be a very poor sports.

Major props @ BarDulL for essentially saving a game that caused Gova to do a lot of work.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Will send out trading cards for unlocked achievements soon too!

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

What did SD do?

 

[Gova]

He never plays as scum.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

He keeps on replacing out every time he rolls scum despite being perfectly able to play.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Actually I thought I was town this game when I replaced out.

Before the game started, Marshy and I agreed that I wouldn't get to see the role PM. Marshy told me to never log onto the hydra account, and that if I wanted to post to send him anything that I was going to post. To ensure that I didn't see our role pm, Marshy even left the conversation in the Nameless account; i.e., if you were to log into Nameless right now you would not find the role pm.

Later though Marshy told me that "it was no fun if I didn't know me alignment and that we were town." Shortly afterwards I told Marshy that I was going to be inactive for most of the game, and Marshy suggested to me that I replace out, which I did.

He keeps on replacing out every time he rolls scum despite being perfectly able to play.

I've think I've done this two times. The worst example was probably GSS 1, where I exaggerated a claim to you that my father broke his toe after dropping a weight on it. Truth me told, he did drop a weight on it and it was very painful for him for a long while, but he was better within an half an hour. I knew that I didn't have to replace out of that game, but I used it as an excuse to anyways.

That's a pretty manipulative lie, I know, if you want to blacklist me on that alone then I won't protest.

The other time was in Gorf's Celebrity mafia, where I just, replaced out really, even though I could have played that game as well.

Please though, do not say that I am "perfectly able to play the game" if you do not know what's going on in my life right now. I regularly work 40 hour weeks, and I go to uni where I'm currently struggling.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

@ #HBC | marshy can confirm my side of the story.

Also would like to mention that a lot of the time when I roll scum I deliberately avoid replacing out so to not **** over my team/make it super obvious that I'm scum based off that alone (Liar mafia, GSS 3).

 

[Vult Redux]

nabe lives to see victory !!!

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Am I allowed to do some post-game bragging about how I basically instantly nailed Laundry/Swiss/KWK slot as scum? How I then switched to Nameless/HBW/Bardull right afterwards? How I then proceeded to block Scary's NK on N1? I'm not? OK! ^_^

Am I allowed to say that you did NOT block Scary's NK on N1 and say that it was rather me playing the role of the bawss one shot BP that stopped the NK? Yea all y'all ninjas was wrong and that's why I was gallivanting D2 about how maybe it wasn't a doc protect or a RB (cuz it was my BP status BIATCH!)

 

[Overswarm]

This setup isn't really town favored, it just falls that way naturally when mafia don't pick their roles correctly and/or don't have the right roles chosen.

If mafia have to claim "special roles" to fit in, it's probably a bad thing for them unless there's something similar on town's side.

Mafia's actually pretty broken naturally with this setup and needs special roles and being unable to pick certain roles to balance it.


Gova post list of what everyone was + mafia and indy roles

 

[Kantrip]

did we even get to pick anything?

pretty sure all the mafia roles were pre-made

 

[Gova]

You guys got to pick some roles from the list but had powers that were given to you already.

 

[Nameless]

He keeps on replacing out every time he rolls scum despite being perfectly able to play.

he thought he was town here and his replacement was at my request for the sake of telling someone else they were town. dont act like a gargantuan tool

blacklisting an intelligent player is ******** as **** and counterproductive regardless let alone makin a show about it

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I didn't ask for your opinion.

 

[Dabuz]

Liked Glyph's early posts and wish he would've stayed in the game. Good play by Jbizzle ... needs to hate less on good players though. Decent input by MC / Nabe helped things as well. Anybody who thinks mafia is generally easier to play as scum needs to read this game. Town win was nearly entirely the result of J and me having accurate reads and a handful of people [MC, Nabe and Vult mainly] being smart enough to exclude themselves from the lynchpool for most of the game. That's almost all it takes for town to stand a very reasonable chance to win. Meanwhile one mistake can screw the scumteam completely.

:L I pushed Scary and Bardull as scum this entire game as well.

Remaining shoutouts time (lazy version)

1. Nameless (marshy/Sworddancer.)/ HBW I thought your Day 1 + 2 play was fine, but once Scary flipped scum, you left too strong of a connection with him both directly and indirectly. I actually used the dragoon BP on N2 just to ensure pushing this slot D3.

3. MC: Your slot was so irritating Day 1 and 2...so good play on that. I was hoping you would be copped just because your play never seemed to lean super scummy or super townie until D4.

6. J: Most obvtownbro of this game. Good reads, pushes, ect.

9. LBScary59: Scum is much harder to play than town, you just gotta get antiquated to making fake reads as scum, generally speaking the easiest way to do that is just pretend you're town and make reads you would make as town.

11. Jdietz43: TBH, I don't remember why you got lynched. I think you just said a few things that scum was able to easily latch on to.

12. Gheb_01: Love the way you play, it's sooooo antitown in nature but at the same time so pro town because your intentions are clear cut and easy to follow.

13. Nabe: Someone should doom you every game : D

14. Vult Redux: Please please pleeeease be more active since you seem like a slot with a lot to bring to the table but never actually do just that.

1. Acrostic: Sucks you had to replace out, TBH IDK how to read you because it seemed like I disagreed with everything you said.


TY Gova for running this game despite the high amount of replacements, I would love to play in a "pick your role" type setup again.

 

[Orboknown]

Dietz got lynched cuz marshy

 

[#HBC | J]

Yay town win!

Will post shout-outs in a bit.

 

[#HBC | J]

Great game everyone, truly happy with how this game went especially for my first game back. Thanks for making it enjoying even with all the roller coaster ups and downs.

1. Nameless (marshy/Sworddancer.)/HBW/Bardull

Marshy, we have discussed things a bit already, but that Ditzy lynch though. Bardull, I am sorry you didn't really have a fair game from me, but there was no way I was letting your slot go based on play and connections from the placed your replaced into.

2. Raziek/Acrostic

Uhm, do not have much to say to either of you two. Consider not replacing out/signing up/replacing in without knowing that you can play the game. It really did kill the slot in of itself. Acro, I guess I would say to not rely on ancient meta or self-meta to make your cases.

3. Maximum Carnage

OS, your play was very methodical. It was easy to see your play and what you were wanting to do. It was a pleasure to play with you again/finally after so long. It's nice to see someone put in the work to post full thoughts. Ryker, don't have much to say because I mainly just looked at OS' play to read the slot.

4. WashedLaundry/Swiss/KWK

Out of the three, KWK was the best out of them all in play wise. I know Swiss didn't play so I won't talk much there. It was just out of everyone who was left in the game KWK, you were the lowest town-read on the totem pole which makes you scum at the farthest stage of the game. Good bussing of Scary though, confused me. WL, weird play/chainsawwing from you though. Liked the slot and the shtick from KWK.

5. Detective Sherlock Hound (Joey/Red Ruy)

Ruy, you need to calm down and stop getting so hot and bothered about the little things and look at the bigger picture. I can't really comment on Joey's play since he was only here in the beginning. I would just say to try and think more coherently and try to flesh out your thoughts more instead of just going on whatever happens. Maybe look at a post and think about it for a couple minutes before actually posting what you think. That may help, in the end, your play was towny and genuine but people didn't want to give you the benefit of the doubt. Also being stubborn and a bit of a prude does not help your case, like, ever.

7. Gorf

For an indy, you played like a towny. Glad you won in the end but I have to say this is like the first indy who told the truth in like ever. If you would not have claimed indy, you would have never had any trouble. I doubt you would have been lynched but *shrug* neither here nor there. Good play from you though.

8. Dabuz

You actually played really well! I am happy for you! Nicely done dabuz. Easily most obvi-towny for me.

9. LBScary59

Sorry Scary! I do not have much to say besides I just read you as scum really quickly and because of the fakeness of your play. I just knew it wasn't TownScary by the way you presented yourself in the game. Once I have scum, I just don't let go so my apologies for that. Do not have much else to say haha.

10. Town PR (Glyph/Ranmaru)

Ranmaru, never ever gambit like that again. That could have completely ruined the game and just your play was all over the place. You need to look at motives and look at how people are trying to read people. That is a big a problem you have is not being able to look at things through others eyes and can only see it through a scoped view. I am not going to ream you, but I will say I am severely disappointed in your play this game. Just...work on your play more please. I do not know where to help you because this was just shocking because it seems you have retrogressed back into an old Ranmaru that makes me worry. Just take more breathers before posting and just do not try and use conspiracy theories to support your logic thinking that it is the truth or confusing yourself by overthinking certain things. Your heart is in your words, but your heart seems to be misguided. Nabe+MC, Jscum recruiting Ruy? I mean you need to analyze things more.

11. Jdietz43

Your lynch was dumb. You were not scummy and just got lynched by the scum-team with their early control and me not being able to be present to push Scary over your slot. Sorry you had to be lynched.

12. Gheb_01

I don't "hate" on good players. It's just I abhor your attitude. That is all.

13. Nabe

Odd to say, but playing like you were dying brought life to your slot, however, your reads were kind of off a lot this game. I mean, thanks for being a town-read!

14. Vult Redux

Your play is fun. I wanted to let you know that you had great reads this game and it was nice having a good back-up town-read when it came down to crunch time.

Gova, thanks for hosting the game. I do not really know much about the set-up since everything was decided by day-play, but idk way confusing of a set-up but it was an interesting game. Thanks for having me play.

Anyways, again, thanks everyone for the enjoyable first game back into DGames! It was a lot of fun and just happy town won.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

yeah gheb well i cant let a homie get dissed when an unfair approach is taken without considering why he did what he did and the conclusion is wrong. id do it for you too so dont take my comment as beef

 

[Jdietz43]

Dietz got lynched cuz marshy

This lol. I gave scumteam way too much to work with in a slow D1.

Glad he was scum in the end though.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

2. Raziek/Acrostic

Uhm, do not have much to say to either of you two. Consider not replacing out/signing up/replacing in without knowing that you can play the game. It really did kill the slot in of itself. Acro, I guess I would say to not rely on ancient meta or self-meta to make your cases

I thought you were mafia because I thought your scum read on the slot was disingenuous given your lack of interest for the push on him on D1 while you were pushing Jdietz as being a strong town read. I thought that you would have put more effort into actually securing the Scary lynch on D1, but iirc you phased out to play Bravely Default and IRL issues. Me using meta was me stretching for a reason to get others to vote you. The case was weak, I just wanted your slot dead because I thought you were mafia.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

7. Gorf

For an indy, you played like a towny. Glad you won in the end but I have to say this is like the first indy who told the truth in like ever. If you would not have claimed indy, you would have never had any trouble. I doubt you would have been lynched but *shrug* neither here nor there. Good play from you though.

For an Indy you played like a townie.

Huh?

 

[#HBC | J]

Basically, I didn't read you as indy until you claimed as such. You played more like a townie than others in the game.