Final Fantasy IX Mafia | Game over! | Who won? :o

[SangfroidWarrior]

@Kuz. I'll get to the answer for AM in a sec. Busy with a few things and I'm going back and looking at his posts.

 

[th3kuzinator]

@J
Whoops, forgot about that bit wrt Hilt, I fail. Just don't let Kuz imitating Ryker put you off of giving the reasoning for those scum picks. Anyway, can we get your character claim?

@kuz
Are you claiming BP straight out?

Vote: J

Nope.

Actually, maybe.

Perhaps.

But yeah he's at L-3 right now make sure he doesn't get to L-1 anytime soon.

 

[July]

I feel like Kuz is kinda being a bit harsh but that seems to be the way he usually plays and I like that he has been pushing J. I don't like some of J's posts lately because they're... lacking something.

I've seen Kuz v. J can get pretty fierce at times, but despite his being harsh I feel like he has been pushing valid points and pressuring J to respond about his scummy behavior ever since yesterDay which I like. And I agree J play toDay is lacking something, which is because he went from asking questions to feel out where player's stances are toDay, then right into defense upon being confronted and then evasion, instead of just dealing with the pressure toDay head on.

 

[th3kuzinator]

The funny thing is my arguments with J have gotten way fiercer than this before.

Why he felt the need to report me after this light treatment is beyond me. I havn't even attacked him personally. Probably the worst thing I've said is umad.

My fake attack at the beginning of D2 was more abrasive than this.

Sheesh.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

He never reported you. I did it myself.

*Continues being dead*

 

[th3kuzinator]

Hmm.

I apologize if I hurt your feelings, J. Nothing personal, you're just scum and I was in the mood to post that link gif.

 

[#HBC | J]

I apologize.

That's all I wanted. But yeah I'm still working on AP and keeping this thread open if you see me viewing but I have something I am working on @July/Sang who seem to think I am being just defensive?

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

No, not just being defensive, but there just seems to be something lacking from your posts that I can't put my finger on.

 

[#HBC | J]

No, not just being defensive, but there just seems to be something lacking from your posts that I can't put my finger on.

Well I am confused because I have no clue what you ladies are talking about at all then....o.o

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

She's saying you jumped to being defensive at a certain point. I'm just confused with your latest posts.

 

[#HBC | J]

She's saying you jumped to being defensive at a certain point. I'm just confused with your latest posts.

Well I don't get where she is getting defensive besides questioning/trying to just ignore Kuzi at that time.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

What scum intent can you pick up from AM that you would label him as scum?

He made posts about how certain people were scum or he would give his reads on people and there would be hardly any explanation for it. And, when somebody didn't understand it he would hide behind numbers and call the person stupid. It definitely put him in the spotlight which I don't think scum would do, but he didn't seem to do much to help the town besides give his reads on things and, when he did explain his reads, it was mostly just quotes, like his case on Seikend. I do like his push on Hilt and how he stuck with it even after getting attacked for it, but it would be in the interest of the town as well as scum to get rid of indies so IDK. Besides the Hilt thing, he hasn't backed up his arguments as much.

 

[th3kuzinator]

In terms of intent wouldn't it be easier to just call hilt scum and attack him normally if AM were scum. Why call him indy specifically and then try to take the long way? If Hilt actually flipped indy it would look worse on AM that they were actually indy hunting.

You're right about them not backing up their **** which, again, has townie intent so I don't know where you're going with that.

Your thing about him not backing up his **** like his case on Seikend fits in to the above category of why would he do that as scum? The surface of everything he does is anti-town, but the intent of all his posts are townie and therefore he's town.

*the fountain of knowledge has spoken*

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

Thank you, grandmaster. Huh. Maybe I have a hard time seperating anti-town from scum. I like your first point, which is one reason I am uncomfortable with people saying that him indy-hunting is a definite scum tell. I don't see the town intent behind telling people who they think is scum and not convincing people of it, though.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

@J. You'd have to ask her.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Maybe I have a hard time seperating anti-town from scum.

You have a much better grasp of it than what I had when I first started playing.

Took me awhile to fully comprehend the distinction myself.

 

[th3kuzinator]

And most of that time was occupied with me completely failing through trial and error.

You should read some of my first games on here. I was so gloriously bad.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

And most of that time was occupied with me completely failing through trial and error.

You should read some of my first games on here. I was so gloriously bad.

It couldn't have been that bad. I still don't fully understand the distinction, apparently. Working on it.

Regardless, moving on. Do you agree with July that J's posts have seemed defensive in the argument with you? Also, what do you think of Nich's vote on J?

 

[Nicholas1024]

Sang, I don't feel like I have a good grasp of your stances, even your post on J seems wishy-washy, like you're waiting to see what happens before committing to a stance. Could you give me your scum picks with reasoning?

 

[th3kuzinator]

J has definitely been defensive wrt my posts. Not as in tone, because he's purposefully not overreacting because he knows that I know that's his biggest scumtell, but with the content in the posts he's responding with. As july said there's literally nothing there, its just saying I need to rethink my view and that I'm wrong about my accusations.

There's no explanation why there could be two docs in this setup, why he has flipped his read on players, why he still wants to look into people he has as town reads on, the response to why his points against AM weren't scummy, why he dodged me for 4 straight days before the deadline and then ended up posting a random reads list with no other content, why he strawmanned the **** out of my push and tried to say I was manipulating everyone, why he blatantly lied to town twice about whether I adequately backed up my reads, why he selectively applied meta to when I used meta but didn't call me out for it when I used it to call him town, why his underhanded WIFOM attack on Acrostic and AM was needed in the first place, why he hasn't character claimed yet despite two requests for him to do so, why he made such a big fuss about Panta soft claiming doc while he was a prostitute jailer, and why he hasn't responded in full to my points that I have to Nich.

Longest run on sentence ever.

There is no content that he is responding to. Just delaying and saying "nuh-uh" when I've pinned him as scum.

As for Nich's vote, I don't like it.

 

[Nicholas1024]

@Kuz's 1493
One thing I disagree with in this post, and that's the town intent behind not posting reasoning. Look, if you have a scum pick, you want to get said pick lynched, if you want to get said pick lynched, the best way to do so is by posting the reasoning. Why is there townie intent behind withholding the reasons you think someone is scum?

While we're on the topic of withholding reasoning, why don't you like my vote?

 

[Tandora]

J and Tandora. Third will be revealed when I deem it appropriate to. There is not point in outing them now.

I was actually hopeful you actually knew who the scum team was until you said this. You're wrong on me, sir. -_-

Hmm.

I apologize if I hurt your feelings, J. Nothing personal, you're just scum and I was in the mood to post that link gif.

Kuz, you have been pretty obnoxious on J this whole game. I agree J has seemed over, but honestly if someone was talking to me the way you have been to J, I sure wouldn't want to play either. I know you're a great guy out of game, so why bring such an unneccessary ******* persona in game?

That said, I do apologize for my lack of play D2. I was extremely busy with work and whenever I did have a few minutes to look there were huge walls of text that I didn't have time to focus on. Add in I forgot Gheb was Euro and as in the future screwed up my ability to participate at all on the last 24 hours.

From Mafiascum - A Bodyguard is a role who can target a player at Night to protect them. However, if the protected player is supposed to be killed, the Bodyguard is killed instead ("taking the bullet" for them, as it were).

Although both Bodyguard and Jailkeeper are relatively weak doctor roles, I find it unlikely we have two of them with no apparent SK/Night Vig. A one shot day vig would be immune to both protect types.

J, I noticed you did not claim your character when you claimed your role. Why not? Are you going to?

JTB - cleared by mod confirm
Acro - cleared by un-cc Cop claim
Hilt- Cleared by Acro cop read and and use of day vig power.
(Did consider Hilt may be a one shot executioner similar to Inception mafia, but Acro's inno read of him clears him at this time)

 

[th3kuzinator]

@Kuz's 1493
One thing I disagree with in this post, and that's the town intent behind not posting reasoning. Look, if you have a scum pick, you want to get said pick lynched, if you want to get said pick lynched, the best way to do so is by posting the reasoning. Why is there townie intent behind withholding the reasons you think someone is scum?

While we're on the topic of withholding reasoning, why don't you like my vote?

I'm trying to be more anti-town by withholding my reasoning.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Its because that's how I read J. I was expecting a flurry of counter insults which is what J usually does at town but I didn't receive them this time.

Wonder why.

 

[Tandora]

As far as my scum reads go, I'm actually kinda lost. I have no clue who to go after right now. I would look at J as scum because I do agree with Kuz's reasons, but J's reaction doesn't fit with a scum J to me.

I'd like to see some AM because I don't recall any input from him the last part of D2. He's still on my igmeou list.

Nicholas is actually pretty clear this game. Not sure if it's been a while since I played with him and a change in town style or if he's just better as scum.

Personally, I feel Dad is town. He's been super aggressive this game with concrete reasons on his picks. But I've been deadly wrong on Kuz before and I still have a burnt hand.

 

[Tandora]

Its because that's how I read J. I was expecting a flurry of counter insults which is what J usually does at town but I didn't receive them this time.

Wonder why.

Kuz, I saw you quick edit that. =/

 

[#HBC | J]

Its because that's how I read J. I was expecting a flurry of counter insults which is what J usually does at town but I didn't receive them this time.

Wonder why.

TBH (man I am the mood of doing things like this cuz of FB tonight) I changed my persona to drop any and all insults from my play because it isn't needed for anyone to play that way. That's why I take the other route instead. Yooooour meta's outdated, but regardless I really should stop these tiny little posts that don't really add anything besides commentary but not in a serious mood cuz of homework and FB breaks. x_X

However isn't that hypocritical kuzi? You say a flurry of insults = town tell, however earlier you said, a calm J = town J and an overreactive J = scum J. I don't get it.

 

[Nicholas1024]

If you want scummy motive behind withholding reasoning, I can give it to you, and that's that a statement without reasoning is near-impossible to argue with. There's nothing I can really say to a blunt refusal for reasoning like #1503. (No, I don't think kuz is scum for this, it's just part of his Ryker complex.) So are you going to clarify that?

 

[July]

@J: These are the reasons I feel you have been off toDay:

Spoiler

Protected Acro last night and it seems to have paid off.

Man but now I'm obscured so much on things. Okay so we have JTB/Hilt/Acro/Myself as duh town. I wanna have July in there. Tanny/Dad/Nich/Sang/AM need to be looked into more but hmm.

Here you give a list of confirmed town/town reads v. people who "need to be looked into more", so no real information about where you are looking into or who you think is scummy yet. So you avoid giving out information right away.

Huh? I don't get what you are talking about here?

She flipped Bodygaurd/Doc which seems to be a weak doc.

This feels defensive to me because Nich brings up a valid point that if you had a huge issue with Panta possibly claiming doc, so your surprise at Nich asking about how we feel about you after TC's doc flip seems feigned. You also defend yourself by saying bodguard/doc seems like a weak doc, but I don't see anything that suggests that, it purely seems like speculation to defend yourself.

July, both of your major scum-picks (TC and Acro) have seem to gone down south, where is head at now?

Same goes to you Sang. Who you like the least now?

I want something from Tanny too, like anything would be nice.

Nich, who are your scum-picks again? I can't recall them.

@Soupa: =/ This game too?

This post seems to me like you are just feeling out people's reads and what's going on in their head while at the same time you haven't done this yourself, which I find suspicious and once again, invasive.

So here's who's left. I think I am gonna crank a re-read through since I didn't do one last night thinking I would die during the Night phase but meh. Here's my reads as I can recall them.

1. Tandora - Null
3. J - Town
4. July - Towny
5. AggressiveMediation (Ryker/Laundry) - Scummy
6. JTB - Town
7. Kuzi - Null leaning town(?)
8. Hilt - Town
10. Acrostic - Town
11. Nich - Null
13. SangfroidWarrior - Scummy

I'll try and have some notes up when I finish some work today.

This is your general reads post, which I feel could have been explained in your first post instead of seperating everyone into obv/confirmed town v. not obv town. It feels like you are giving things piece by piece to avoid giving content, and in that sense it feels evasive because you just keep giving us little pieces of info but no substantiation or explanation. And I feel like that's how your Sang scum read has been all game, so that is the read I would by far like reasoning for the most.

If you are talking about my claim and the flip, I think you need to double check a few things.

This seems defensive. You don't acknowledge the issues with the Panta doc claim, your claim and then TC's flip, you just write it off and say to "double check a few things". But with so many people bringing up issues with this same event, it is something you need to actually address.

Act your age for once.



Well because I jailed him N1 and he didn't die and Seik died which I highly doubt was a mafia kill like insanely so.

Why can't it be logical Sang?

Once again, its defensive (at this point Kuz v. J hasn't launched into the full conflict it would be) and your question to Sang is just evading the issue. Instead of explaining to Sang that it is/can be logical, you turn it back on her and ask her why it isn't logical instead, but you yourself seemed to think it couldn't be logical when Panta's claim was going on. All in all you don't address the issue because I think you realize it isn't logical either, but you can't admit that.

Because I thought he was counter-claiming me?

Reason this is a question is confusing, I took this as you thought the answer was obvious. But with everything going on it was important to know why you had such an issue with Panta's claim because of TC's flip and your claim in relation to that.

The rest of your posts are mostly the back and forth with Kuz in which I'm not taking into account because you seemed genuinely angry about his play, but my point is even before that I felt you were evasive and defensive.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Lol implying I have a Ryker complex.

I'm 2x the mafia players Ryker will ever be we just use similar methods to read players.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

Sang, I don't feel like I have a good grasp of your stances, even your post on J seems wishy-washy, like you're waiting to see what happens before committing to a stance. Could you give me your scum picks with reasoning?

Honestly, J is my only scum pick at the moment. His posts have seemed off and I dislike some of his pushes. Also, the latest thing with the Doc flip makes me think he's scum. The other people that I thought were scum have died and turned out to be town. I would say AM as well but Kuzi's posts have kind of confused that read. Still looking into others like Tandora. I'm going to do a re-read tomorrow (trying to work on AP work as well) so I'll try to give my reads then.

 

[th3kuzinator]

However isn't that hypocritical kuzi? You say a flurry of insults = town tell, however earlier you said, a calm J = town J and an overreactive J = scum J. I don't get it.

Since I've told you that you've changed your meta so that you definitely don't overreact so that I call you out on a scumtell. If anything you being overly cordial with your responses is just proof of you trying your hardest not to overreact and its noticeable. As town you'd be annoyed with my posts at a normal level and would react as such. You wouldn't diffuse everything I say because you'd have a right to be mad, not fake calm.

So really, J, its about acting with appropriate amounts of anger to the situations before that makes it look natural. Keep that in for your next scum game and maybe I wont be able to read you so easily.

It goes without saying that you still havn't responded to the long paragraph of 1500 but I doubt I'll get a response to it anyway.

 

[Tandora]

Kuz, would you go back and restate your argument against J w/o meta? I'd like to see how much of your argument is on meta.

 

[th3kuzinator]

There's no explanation why there could be two docs in this setup, why he has flipped his read on players, why he still wants to look into people he has as town reads on, the response to why his points against AM weren't scummy, why he dodged me for 4 straight days before the deadline and then ended up posting a random reads list with no other content, why he strawmanned the **** out of my push and tried to say I was manipulating everyone, why he blatantly lied to town twice about whether I adequately backed up my reads, why he selectively applied meta to when I used meta but didn't call me out for it when I used it to call him town, why his underhanded WIFOM attack on Acrostic and AM was needed in the first place, why he hasn't character claimed yet despite two requests for him to do so, why he made such a big fuss about Panta soft claiming doc while he was a prostitute jailer, and why he hasn't responded in full to my points that I have to Nich.

None of this has anything to do with meta.

 

[Tandora]

Thanks, and I like to think it backs up that Kuz does have good points against J and J's main defense is "Your meta is old".

I'd like a vote count before I place a vote.

 

[th3kuzinator]

He's at L-3.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

I wouldn't suggest anyone else voting him until a few other people post. We're still missing Acro, AM, Hilt, and Seph as well as JTB only coming in with 1 little post.

 

[#HBC | J]

Since I've told you that you've changed your meta so that you definitely don't overreact so that I call you out on a scumtell. If anything you being overly cordial with your responses is just proof of you trying your hardest not to overreact and its noticeable. As town you'd be annoyed with my posts at a normal level and would react as such. You wouldn't diffuse everything I say because you'd have a right to be mad, not fake calm.

So really, J, its about acting with appropriate amounts of anger to the situations before that makes it look natural. Keep that in for your next scum game and maybe I wont be able to read you so easily.

It goes without saying that you still havn't responded to the long paragraph of 1500 but I doubt I'll get a response to it anyway.

I'm gonna bring this up later but not true to a lot of this haha. Man quit relying on meta dude, it affects your game hard.

Regardless, I gotta be going for tonight shortly I believe and I suprisingly invested my time into re-reading the entire game of Rusty Guillotine mafia for god knows why. I miss old Ryker and nice Kuzi. I am also glad I stopped playing the S.O.B. way I played in that game! xD

@Sang: Didn't Seph get replaced by Nichy? ;P

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

Right. My bad. I keep going the the playerlist and I think it still has regular old Seph in there. My bad. Still, we're waiting on Acro, AM, and Hilt and I really want to hear what Acro has to say about you protecting him.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Not at all.

In fact my game has gotten so much better recently because I've finally figured out what to look for with meta.