Final Fantasy IX Mafia | Game over! | Who won? :o

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Hey! I'm back. I apologize for my absence. Will try to catch up as fast as possible.

 

[Dad]

@MOD: Please prod Panta and and Nich.

@Acrostic: If you value your life I suggest you hurry up.

 

[Dad]

And now tcat is lurking instead of answering my posts.

I swear to ****ing god if we aren't able to lynch scum today because of this game's inactivity.

Tcat needs more votes, we can still swing the lynch.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

@mod: Clarification of Deadline. Is it 11:59 EST?

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

@Acro. Probably not but it doesn't matter. You should hurry up with your catchup soon.

@Dad. Working on your responses now but I have to leave in a bit and I'm not sure when I'll be back.

 

[Dad]

@MOD: Also request prod on Tandora

Are you kidding me, guys? 24 hours and still nothing?

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

I'd disagree. Not everything in thread has to be immediately validated. I agree that he has made plenty of overdeveloped and defensive excuses, though I think that holds consistent with the playstyle he has presented with us thus far and is a null tell. If someone that isn't known to use post long winded responses with florid language did that, I'd take it as a scumtell also.

As per the defensiveness, I just remember him from newbie being this way and I have never played any games with him before. Meta but... meh. It doesn't feel right with me. I will take this part into consideration. And I wasn't expecting it to be immediately validated, but if he's going to say that he thinks somebody is a scum team I would expect him to have reasons behind it.

LST pushing on Seikend. I like this.

Unvote: Leopard Skin Taser

[/collapse]

Even though this factor offers no good solutions, I still feel still feel it suffers from benign confusion. And despite this rather impasse conclusion, I feel that his lynch will clear up some pollution.

Different, Weird, Lazy. You sure do ask a lot of questions that tend to go nowhere.

Wifom = circular reasoning. Flavor speculation = question. Question =/= Reasoning.

Flavor was a means to an end, not an end in and of itself.

I'm treating the actual surface response as null. I like the fact that he stated his ability is not tied into his role and didn't try to force it in otherwise. I also don't see any appeals to emotion. He's just explaining to me that flavor has nothing to do with his ability.

I think that RR's play this game has been construed as anti-town based on how he is going from me, to the closest wagon, to inactives in terms of lynch focus which seems directionless and fraught with weak points the past couple of days. RR also hasn't put time into defending himself that well.

Now I know this is wifom, but I feel that a scum RR would have a much clearer aim and focus than how he played in mid-game and late-game. Early-game RR was planning on pushing policy lynches|inactives. Then game his mid-game scum read on me. Then came the late-game switch to Seikend and then Sephiroth.

It is possible that he could have seen an opportunity on me with you initially fossing me, however I'm not too sure that is the case. In general though, RR has little explanation to explaining why he switches and a good explanation on why his targets are scum. Therefore his play seems weak, insincere, and dodgy. Hence, lynch.

I have been developing a degree of pessimism over the importance of these questions and how important they are to you in actually forming reads. Relatively early in this game you developed a fos on Red Ryu|Panta which you've still maintained despite extensive Q&A. I have begun to question how much these questions actually do affect your fos because your scum reads seem to not be tied in with your questions, only possible town reads.

I will admit though that my answer was unwarranted and I understand that you are asking me about how I feel about others in the same vote wagon: Hilt, Dad, and Sangfroid. Correspondingly my reads on them are null-town and null for the last two:

Hilt is null town. I generally like his comments, but I dislike his voting as they seem to complacent to settle on the most popular target of the day: Panta|RR. If I missed any crazy Hilt voting shenanigans, then feel free to hit me up Hilt. But your votes don't really reflect to me the amount of thinking you are doing in some of your posts.

Sangfroid initially seemed a bit different in comparison to our last game, but she seemed to resemble regular town play after initial unease (unease inside me). Dad is null, he hasn't really explained reads and I removed him from scum when he clarified the aforementioned situation yesterday.

Then that goes to this at the start of D2:

I want to look into Dad|Sangfroid|July today. Will also try to get reads on travelingcat|Tandora.

[/collapse]

As for the July thing, perhaps I was wrong. I do not see the post in which I thought I had read him saying July was town. That is a mistake on my part.

Going back through this, I realized that he had also changed his view on you from scum to town and back to scum by the end of the day. Meh.

Sang, what do you think of July's/My case on Acro? Which points to you agree/disagree to? Is it strong or is it weak?

J, I'm gonna comment on yours in sections, kay?

[COLLAPSE=J's Acro case response]

Here is a short summary as to why I believe Acro is scum.

I extremely dislike him as of late because he is doing quite a lot of IIoA. He doesn't really do much of anything by himself. he has yet to actually push a scum-candidate of his for actual reasoning and his reasoning for his votes is purely transparent.

Agreed.

Let's look at his voting(not starting with the JTB fiasco), he at first votes Seik for lurking at the beginning of the day when no one had posted yet really at all. Then he doesn't do anything with that vote.

I don't agree with this because he was doing it to try to get Seikend more into the game. If Seikend is there he may as well post and Acro got him to. He didn't do anything with the vote because it was just pressure, or that's what it seems to me.

He then moves his vote to follow Dad onto LST(now July) and says he agrees to the rationale of why July is scum. However he sprinkles a little reasoning onto why he is voting them but overall, it's weaker than the first substantial reason. (common trend with him)

Then he comes back in a long time later and unvotes LST because he is pushing Seik and therefore likes him more. Then he does some answering questions and comes back with some very very bad/twisting reasoning on why Dad is scum which is where my initial FoS came from.

Agreed. A lot of his pushes have been weak and bad.

Next thing he does is join my RR wagon because he said his reasoning is that he believed RR is scum with a very small justification as to why. Shortly though he changes his tune to say, "Oh nvm, I feel RR is town but gonna vote him anyways cuz lalala." which is just It is incredibly anti-town to vote anyone you have an inkling may be town and I stand by that firmly. Plus look who flipped town and look at the person who was voting him but calling him town to just go with the bandwagon.

Agreed.

The next instance I dislike from him is his "bottom of the barrel scum-reads". For one, they are outdated as hell. Two, the reasoning behind each of them is weaker then the next. He names 6 people as his scum-picks/good to lynch but has never once PUSHED any of these.

Agreed, but I would like to add that a few of those people he had never even given any hint to wanting dead before that.

Something that annoyed me that is scummy is that because he mixed up the deadline, he decided to unvote RR and not do anything else until the clock dwindled down to about deadline where JTB had to tell him to vote 30 minutes before the deadline. His reasoning for said unvote is horrible because he bases it off the genuineness of a post that literally anyone could have said if they read the votes wrong. He then comes back to say that RR is not scum because he apparantly has no partners when that reasoning was just WIFOM in itself.

I don't really like this part. For one, anybody could mix up the deadline. It's a null tell. To me it seems like he unvoted RR in order to try to actually get one of his scum-picks lynched. He waited until he was sure that nobody would switch their vote onto one of his scum picks. Also, I do not remember the last part.

That's D1 pretty much.

D2 he hasn't done anything at all that can be remembered of him besides his jump on, onto the HiltIndy train of thought right after AM introduced that into the game. He made a bunch of promises yesterDay that he was going to look into Dad|July|Sang but he hasn't done anything but in fact has been coasting throughout ever since Dad exploded with activity as of late pretty much.

His voting record sucks.
His reasoning for his votes stinks just as bad.
He hasn't been scum-hunting.
He's become background noise now that the attention is shown somewhere else.

Agreed. Even when he claims to be back there is nothing from him yet.

Overall, there is no one scummier then him in this game for me as of this point.

Something that needs to be explained is why people are not paying attention at all to Acro anymore now that people like TC/Hilt/Sang are being thrown around for a possible lynch. People seriously need to unforget him.

Um... Because people have other stronger scum reads...? And, seriously? I don't think anyone has thrown around that I could be lynched today. And you are forgetting AM.

Sang, you said you were wavering with your vote on him, if you want him dead and he is your strongest scum-pick why is your vote not on him with only 2 days left till deadline? You are cautious with your vote but not this cautious if you have such a strong scum-read.

I still dislike this part of that post. You had already asked me this and I had already given you the answer. It's like you are overlooking things, or maybe you had just forgotten. [/collAPSE]

Could you point out July's case?

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

Vote: Acrostic

This is long overdue.

 

[Dad]

But you agreed on most everything I said was incorrect about your case except for the two spots we're still waiting on Acrostic to respond to. With the evidence presented to you, how can you still think Acrostic is scummier over someone like tcat? Did you read our back and forth? Did you see her grimy switch onto Acrostic?

Not to mention J's case on him has more holes than Swiss' town game.

I swear this Acro wagon is dumb or scum.

 

[Dad]

And I'm glad you can see the terrible inconsistencies behind J's play this game. Glad I'm not the only one.

BUT YOU'RE STILL VOTING ACROSTIC WHY?!

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

But you agreed on most everything I said was incorrect about your case except for the two spots we're still waiting on Acrostic to respond to. With the evidence presented to you, how can you still think Acrostic is scummier over someone like tcat? Did you read our back and forth? Did you see her grimy switch onto Acrostic?

Not to mention J's case on him has more holes than Swiss' town game.

I swear this Acro wagon is dumb or scum.

I agreed that some things were incorrect and that others I'd look into. I don't like how TC just randomly jumped onto Acro. In fact, going back and re-reading, I really dislike TC. But, is there enough behind her wagon? IIRC, you're the only one voting for her. As adamant as you are and as much as other people think she might be scum, they have stronger picks. Acro is still my strongest scum read.

And I'm glad you can see the terrible inconsistencies behind J's play this game. Glad I'm not the only one.

BUT YOU'RE STILL VOTING ACROSTIC WHY?!

Nope, you aren't. It's been bugging me a little bit lately but I'm not sure I'd call him scum just yet. And I'm still voting Acro because I still think he's scum. If he comes back with something reasonable that sways me I might change my vote. Or, if I find something during my re-read that sways me.

Regardless, you're right that inactiveness is tearing this game (and town with it) appart.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

@Dad. What are your thoughts on J currently?

 

[Dad]

@Dad. What are your thoughts on J currently?

Scum.

I don't know or care how he relates to tcat. Both of them are scum off their own merit. I want tcat lynched and J vigged (assuming the person who shot Seikend is non-mafia).

 

[Dad]

As for the tcat wagon, if you boarded we'd need 5 more. AM has expressed interest and said he was making a post tonight and out of his scumpicks other than hilt, tcat has the most chance of a wagon. Thats 4. Hilt will join after he realizes Panta lynch isn't happening. Thats 3. I don't know where Acrostic is going but with his vote currently nowhere and tcat's gross hop on, I'm sure he'll join up. That's 2. July has her as her second scumpick and will board to save a NL (or else she's scum). That's 1. Anyone else would hammer at that point to save a NL, even if they have a town read on her. Nich isn't caught up and hasn't taken a stance one way or the other but I'm sure he'll put his vote down if we need it. Same thing with Panta and same thing with JTB.

Thats L+2. I'm thinking the only people who won't vote her are J and Tandora.

Seriously. We can swing this lynch. We have the people but it'll be much easier as we approach deadline if we can start the switch done now.

The Acro lynch is terrible.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

Scum.

I don't know or care how he relates to tcat. Both of them are scum off their own merit. I want tcat lynched and J vigged (assuming the person who shot Seikend is non-mafia).

So you're scumpicks are J, TC, and July?

 

[Dad]

So you're scumpicks are J, TC, and July?

And Hilt.

Hilt and July are leaning scum and are my secondary picks.

J and tcat need death.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

The Acro lynch is terrible.

Yes, but me changing my vote just for you to lynch TC is as well.

I'm gonna Unvote for now though. *sigh* this is becoming really annoying. I want to see something from Acro before I vote for TC though. I think deadline will be at 6 EST tomorrow or something as that was the deadline last time. We have like...20 hours.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

So you are adamant that Acro is not scum but town. Alrighty. Um... question, you said earlier that you had seen a possible scumslip from July. Would you mind pointing it out if you could?

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

Yay! 6 people actually viewing. Now if only we could get somebody other than me and Dad to post

 

[Dad]

Yes, but me changing my vote just for you to lynch TC is as well.

I'm gonna Unvote for now though. *sigh* this is becoming really annoying. I want to see something from Acro before I vote for TC though. I think deadline will be at 6 EST tomorrow or something as that was the deadline last time. We have like...20 hours.

Not really. You've expressed disinterest in tcat before this iirc. Tcat comes into the came with tunnel vision and then literally stops pressuring July as soon as I call her out on it. For all the hot wind being spewed about conviction or w/e trying to get July lynched, it didn't seem that heart wrenching with the acro wagon switch with 3 lines of reasoning with 48 hours left (and for all the support J gave tcat for being adamant about her lynch and wanting it campaigned, J didn't seem to have much to say after tcat switched).

Compared to that, your switch would seem over-qualified.

 

[Dad]

Yay! 6 people actually viewing. Now if only we could get somebody other than me and Dad to post

Yeah all them lurkers not wanting to switch to go through because they're happily sitting on an Acro ML.

*twiddles thumbs*

 

[#HBC | J]

Catching up and gonna get to other games before this one but question to Sang.

Why are you letting Dad push you around a bit for TC lynch and let him get away with not fully explaining things?

Dad, are you serious with trying to get a TC lynch? It's as plausible as acquiring a Panta lynch which you are trying to shake Hilt of off. Just as many people have expressed discontent with Panta however as Sang said you have 20 hours to swing the lynch. One of Acro or Hilt is getting lynched with like 3-4 votes a piece atm.

Now gonna do some other things but this crazy rush to lynch TC with as much time we have left is dumb.

 

[Dad]

Dad, are you serious with trying to get a TC lynch? It's as plausible as acquiring a Panta lynch which you are trying to shake Hilt of off. Just as many people have expressed discontent with Panta however as Sang said you have 20 hours to swing the lynch. One of Acro or Hilt is getting lynched with like 3-4 votes a piece atm.

Now gonna do some other things but this crazy rush to lynch TC with as much time we have left is dumb.

Of course I am. Bull**** its as plausible as Panta. Plenty of people have listed tcat as auxiliary scum reads while pretty much Hilt is the only one who has expressed interest in lynching Panta. Not the same thing at all.

And no, I know thats what you want, but thats not what you're gonna get.

And LOL at me pushing Sang around. If anything is playing dirty here, J, it's you

 

[Dad]

Not to mention you still havn't responded to my 970.

Not to mention you still havn't commented on the interaction between me and tcat and have not weighed in on your thoughts on tcat's switch to Acrostic which you promised me last night. I feel this would be something of pretty big important to you, considering you had tcats back for being so convicted with the July lynch and getting a townie vibe from it. Especially this close to deadline.

And now you're trying to sell that I'm bullying Sang into following my lynch so that you can get her to stay on the Acro wagon?

Bleck.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

Catching up and gonna get to other games before this one but question to Sang.

Why are you letting Dad push you around a bit for TC lynch and let him get away with not fully explaining things?

When has he not fully explained anything? And I'm not letting him push me around. I made an argument about Acro. He refuted it and offered points that I hadn't heard of. Also, I believe I made some post recently saying she was null leaning scum so this isn't just coming out of nowhere. I don't understand where you are getting that he's pushing me around.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Will be honest. I was catching up on Ragnarok. If there are any immediate questions you need answered, I'll answer them now if you re-state them. Regardless traveling_cat needs to elaborate on that decision to switch because I honestly don't understand the discrepancy between creating that large case on July and then deciding to switch to me with a very small explanation.

 

[Dad]

Will be honest. I was catching up on Ragnarok. If there are any immediate questions you need answered, I'll answer them now if you re-state them. Regardless traveling_cat needs to elaborate on that decision to switch because I honestly don't understand the discrepancy between creating that large case on July and then deciding to switch to me with a very small explanation.

It's because she's scum

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

Will be honest. I was catching up on Ragnarok. If there are any immediate questions you need answered, I'll answer them now if you re-state them. Regardless traveling_cat needs to elaborate on that decision to switch because I honestly don't understand the discrepancy between creating that large case on July and then deciding to switch to me with a very small explanation.

Dude, just total salkd;fjasveiotusetg at this post. Like, really?

It's not even just questions you have to answer to.

 

[Dad]

Will be honest. I was catching up on Ragnarok. If there are any immediate questions you need answered, I'll answer them now if you re-state them. Regardless traveling_cat needs to elaborate on that decision to switch because I honestly don't understand the discrepancy between creating that large case on July and then deciding to switch to me with a very small explanation.

Also read Sang's case on you and look at my rebuttal. There are some things in there that have merit that I don't think you have responded to.

Don't bother reading J's case. The entire thing is pretty much a recap of everything we've already discussed and resolved sprinkled with some arguments about you faking not knowing when the deadline is and using WIFOM at certain points (something J himself has been doing fluently this game).

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Dude, just total salkd;fjasveiotusetg at this post. Like, really? It's not even just questions you have to answer to.

Yes, really. I am on lynch on both games and I chose to prioritize that game first because Werekill was on and I could talk to him. Sorry for the conflict of interest, I will catch up though and will be on for the next couple of hours.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

*sigh* it's alright. You seem to be up for lynch a lot ^_^ But yeah, what Dad said and I think some other people had questions for you as well. I just wanna see how you reply to all this. And the "Like, really?" part was to you saying that you would answer things now if people re-stated them, so it just seemed like you weren't going to look back through the thread before deadline.

 

[Dad]

I would also like to bring up the hydra in itself because they had been faking a posting restriction this whole game as we have all seen. When they were called out on other things, they maintained this guise. However when they are called out on what could be a legitamate slip, they drop it to go into heavy defensive mood which is odd for that hydra because they love keeping their bravado.

Something that annoyed me that is scummy is that because he mixed up the deadline, he decided to unvote RR and not do anything else until the clock dwindled down to about deadline where JTB had to tell him to vote 30 minutes before the deadline. His reasoning for said unvote is horrible because he bases it off the genuineness of a post that literally anyone could have said if they read the votes wrong. He then comes back to say that RR is not scum because he apparantly has no partners when that reasoning was just WIFOM in itself.

J would never have made these arguments as town.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

I just wouldn't expect him to make those types of arguments in general.

 

[th3kuzinator]

I just wouldn't expect him to make those types of arguments in general.

People do strange things as scum.

 

[Dad]

People do strange things as scum.

Sorr y.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

No biggie. Agreed.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Starting part 2, continuing onwards...

Self-meta?



No I dont...? The next quote shows I respond.



I never said I had better meta, but meta is a dumb/weak reasoning for things because of how flippant it is.



Yet that's all you focus on.



This is the first I am seeing an Acro push from you RR and your quotes you bring up that you say you did do follow up stuff isn't anything like at all. I didn't call you out for not placing a vote but for you not pushing who you are voting.



Actually it wasn't "in plain sight" at all but far from it. The way you say you were attacking Acro was cryptic and not much of anything at all. The stuff you are saying now is more then you have ever said w.r.t. a scum-read.



Whoa this is wrong. Dad push wasn't even close to this reasoning. Purposely lying and misconstruing posts? Da hell? Where has your reasoning been in clear sight?



No, possibly, and not seeing it.

I like this post. Yes, RR did in fact flip town, but from my experience scum prefers joining a wagon over heading it, and J's reasoning here (just like everywhere else) is logical.

You're claiming to solve variables for players but the solutions are not the same as ours.





FOIL! First, Outer, Inner, Last! Or did you forget the formula so fast? Is this why your equation changed at that pace? Do the math, radian, it's not that complicated.

Your answers don't matter without a proof, let's see your reasoning behind your solutions to these matrices, or I'm going to have to divide your lynch votes by 0.


Next, Panta's #309 is awkward. When RR asks who's untrustworthy with their vote, Panta replies

You.

And doesn't clarify further. It's difficult to tell whether Panta thinks RR is scummy or not from this, and he could easily play it into jumping on the popular townie wagon.

Panta's #316 points out that LST hasn't contributed much when he does post (aside from "We need activity" and the like) and has been generally inactive, which is a fair enough point… but Panta's had exactly one contribution post himself, so this comes off as somewhat hypocritical to me.

What do you mean that I am easily persuaded and therefore become a target for the town to buddy?

Town would use that against me? Or town would look to me in order to get more power for their vote?

Still not liking Panta, it feels like he only pops in to make a token "Hey, I'm still here, here's a couple of unimportant questions" from time to time and isn't at all concerned about scum hunting. J asks about Panta's vote/scumreads…

I like my vote on LST, but apparently everyone else thinks it is dumb or wrongheaded. :\

Right now I don't get this scum vs scum thing that you are saying J. RR's play is different from the other game that I am in him with, but I don't like using meta as an argument to make someone scummy.

Is there a way to only read Seikend's post or Ryu's post in this thread?

Also, I lived past day 1 in a mafia game!! WOO!! :D

Seriously, that's it? Can we lynch this guy yet?


At this point notes as I go will likely be sporadic now, since I've done a good deal of catching up on my iPod, and I keep my notes via computer. However, some additional thoughts on players...

Acro's really slipped, particularly with the bit where he says RR is likely town, but he wants to lynch him anyway because scum can push him as a mislynch down the line. That's just downright horrible reasoning to push the lynch of a town read.

AM's still tricky to read since they refuse to make a conventional case, more or less pointing at posts they dislike and going "figure it out yourself". Need to think more on these guys.

Panta would still be my number one scum read, as I'm up to #574 (That point in my catchup is when this paragraph was made), and he's only made two more content posts, one each detailing why he'd be willing to lynch RR/Seikend... both of whom turned up town.

Why is it that Tom is yet again super-inactive? (I seem to carry an inactivity curse, vets not named Evil Eye utterly fail at staying active in games that I join.)

BTW, sorry for changing my mind on things when I get a response that I like. I will, from now on, tunnel onto people I dislike and will not be swayed from it. Thank you for teaching me how wrong I am in my ways.

This quote basically sums up why I'm wary of Sang. It feels like she's anxious to appear townie, as this more or less says "Sorry for appearing scummy by flipping too easily on my reads, I'll try to look townier now." However, that aside her play hasn't been bad, so it may just be a newbie trying to improve, so null for now.

Now moving through the #600 mark...

I feel that J vs Acro reflects well on J, but not so much on Acro. Might not have been the best D1 ever, but to be going after a null-town read (Yeah, head said null, but with a gut town read, that would be leaning more towards town than scum) for a policy lynch feels wrong, particularly since it's unclear if that's Acro's real reasoning or if he's backtracking from the "townie, but lynch anyway" bit (personally I suspect the latter).

Sang's #632 is pretty good, yeah, RR flipped town, but Sang's reasoning for joining the wagon look solid. (From my experience, it's those that join wagons without good reasoning that tend to flip scum, not those who take responsibility for their reads and pushing the case.)

Acro's #654 is bad. Rolefishing to see if there's a cop? It's somewhat mitigated by the fact that he just wants to know about the existence, not who has the role (if it's in here, which is probable), but still, why bring it up?

Stopping at #682 for now, it's getting late.

Scum:
Panta
Acro

Null:
Way too many people

Town:
LST (semi-inactive, but when they do post I tend to like where they're going)
Sang (Odd interactions with J aside, her play has felt pretty townie, and I think it might just be a newbie trying to improve.)
J

 

[#HBC | J]

Grrr how frustrating. >_<" I lost my post I was working on due to internet failure and I probably won't get to it again till later after I'm done hanging out with my brother.

So till then.

 

[#HBC | J]

J would never have made these arguments as town.

Though I can mention this before I go. Lol meta as your supporting argument.

Acro, read my case on you and don't listen to Dad. If it makes ya feel better, Sang even agreed to a lot of it but Dad wants to filter what you do and do not read. Also answer my questions when you get the chance.

 

[Dad]

Though I can mention this before I go. Lol meta as your supporting argument.

Acro, read my case on you and don't listen to Dad. If it makes ya feel better, Sang even agreed to a lot of it but Dad wants to filter what you do and do not read. Also answer my questions when you get the chance.

Oh you.

It's not meta at all. The arguments you made are purely based on WIFOM and townJ would never have needed to resort to that type of garbage to push a lynch. It's funny that you fault Acro for having a town read due to WIFOM when you yourself are supporting two scum reads through bull**** WIFOM.

But speaking of meta:

Eh.

J is town because his responses to my blatant personal attacks aren't overboard. He got moderately defensive and told me to step off when I told him his playstyle was bad, which is understandable. He didn't go off into one of his scumJ hissy fit fake rages like I know he would have had he been scum. Furthermore he completely diffused my comment saying he ****ed things up with zero aggression attached.

A calm J is a town J.

Isn't that right, sugar?

@J: Thougths on Tandora's response.

Why didn't you immediately call me out for meta when I put for this argument when it supported a town read on you?

It's because you're selectively applying tells during periods that are for your benefit and your benefit alone.

TownJ would have called me out for using meta regardless of the situation, not only when it was not to his benefit.

@Nich: Hurry please, we need you for a tcat wagon.