Falcos worst match ups?

[Metroid475]

Yeah, i use falco quite alot and havent had problems facing any other characters. Do i really have to worry about anyone else besides a better falco or someone with more experience?

 

[Finaite]

Perhaps toonlink, for me I have a bit of trouble with him. When you play toonlink, play aggressively, one tip of advice or he will rack up serious damage on you.
I'm speaking of personal experience. I may not be a recognized smasher, but just be careful around toonlink. He has faster priority than falco (in my experience) and he's just deadly if you don't take him out with your own movesets. He can counter with his bair if you're trying to approach him by air.

Just my opinion, good luck.

 

[wtMiniMii]

I wold say a good Meta/ROB.

They are harder to chaingrab IMO.

 

[Blad01]

Hum...

Wolf (you can't reflect hos blaster...), a good Peach, and yeah maybe Toon Link.

 

[Blu_Jay]

Maybe I just Suck.......but I think a lev 9 mario is hard......lol, lev 9s are hard in Brawl, real people are waaay different.

 

[sazabi]

for me at recent tournaments, i've found that falco has trouble dealing with snake, mk, and possibly toon link.

Matchup's

Snake - this guy is just way too buff, lasers do help you to an extent, but trying melee combat is just asking to get AAA comboed, chain grab to d-spike is suggested considering that it'll kill them usually from that. but once the explosives are set up all over the stage, your gonna have a hard time manuvering.

MK- this guy is way to rediculous against falco, its a somewhat ok match up if you space well with laser tilts shine. but AVOID having MK get in your face at all times. cause MK seriously is an annoying piece of **** when hes in your face considering that his moves practically out prioritize falco's in speed hands down. so against mk spacing is key. even now i have problems with mk...and on a side note, unless you know your gonna edge guard for sure. avoid edge game against mk at all costs cause MK's gonna win guaranteed off the edge.

Toon link - is an some what okay match up, considering how fat falco has become lol, its alot easier to RAR a falco, also iono for SURE but i beleive that a TL can seriously outcamp a falco in terms of projectiles because TL is sooo small to hit with the SHDL in contrast to toonlinks double arrows/bomb/boomer throws.

 

[fourthmealer]

a good D3 is pretty challenging 2. his waddle dee's pwn ur laser so u can't camp on him either.

When fighting snake, shine his nikita and grenades, it'll get him out of camping
Chain grab the **** out of snake and go for the spike kill. If not its ok thats where you have to watch is Fjab and F tilt. His upTilt and aerials aren't bad either. Be cautious when going aerial against snake. Get snake off stage, and when he uses his up B he is completely vulnerable to a spike. That's the trick to beating a snake.

Marth has been a bit of a challenge for me too. Marth is so smooth and easy to use. . . My advice for a strong approach against any charecter that you can't seem to "get on the inside" to rack up damage, use right B. They half the time wont shiel it, and get knocked into the air perfect setup for a Bair. If no one has figured this, i claim it :D

 

[Metroid475]

Whenever i fight against a Mk is usually spam my reflector to stop his approach and then fallow up with some SH Dair but thats just me.

 

[SunriseW12]

G&W is a pain freakin falco counter.

I've played against most of the characters that you guys are saying, and none of them seem to be as annoying as G&W.

 

[TheKneeOfJustice]

Anyone near the top can go almost even with Falco IMO. I'd say namely the potentially problematic match-ups are: Toon Link, Snake, Wolf, G&W. These characters have projectile games that can match yours, Can combo you, or can out-camp you.

 

[SpeedAcE]

Aerial characters that can punish shields without worry of being attacked out of shield or shield-grabbed at all.

Kirby and Jiggs give me hell, and MK to an extent.

 

[Cojan]

I have a pretty big problem against G&W and Snake but other than that its just having to play smart.

 

[AttackstorM]

Only thing is good players that play heavy characters on FD. you got to deal twice the damage on them because every one of their stocks can potentially last until 200%. while falco will be lucky to get to 120%. They are a little more easier to kill on smaller stages like BF.

and i wouldn't consider rob a hard match up to falco. spam reflector and lasers and you are good. reflect robs laser, reflect robs top dash pick it up and throw it right back at him. also the lasers shut him down when he trys to use his ranged attacks on you. falco range attacks > robs.

 

[spare-jello]

It's weird... I've always had trouble with Pit. I can never get anywhere near him, and when I try spamming my laser they always use their reflector.

 

[Blistering Speed]

G&W hands down

 

[mrbr0wn1e]

I have had consistent problems with Pro Yoshi's. Their recovery is really good. The Juggernaut grabs, tongue and Yoshi Bomb. The second jump invulnerability while you can still rack up damage, cancels the spiking. In air, Yoshi's attacks always overpower Falco's. Yoshi has a really good balance between weight and speed, he's approximately 2% heavier than Wolf, but almost as fast. And sometimes it's hard to Chaingrab them, it may be me, but when I was using my Dpad (Wii Mochuk) they DI'ed really easily, later I started using A+B grabbing and problem solved.

I find that the Shine (counters firstly the Bomb, the eggs and it stops the rolling egg), FoxTrot to FSmash, and surprise SHDAs work really good. Spaming Phantasm is always good, as also is a Surprise shortstop Phantasm (dunno how are they officially called). SHDLing works really well at destroying the eggs and hitting him at the same time.

Other annoying little worms are (as mentioned before) MK, Pit (he spams stuff, I counterspam Shine ), G&W (he's too powerful ) and Wolf (he's one tough camping little son of her doggy mom).

 

[FAZE]

im gonna have to say G&W....hes such a beast against falco. someone needs to figure out how to beat him lol.

 

[Wolfang]

I think mainly MetaKnight. He's sort of hard to hit with the laser since he's such a small target, and most time you spike him down, he just flys back up. Oh, all of his attacks are fast and in your face, so camping isn't the best stratagem. You have to actually stop his attacks or they hurt you somehow (ex. Mach Tornado, AAA, etc.)

 

[hurricane22491]

Game & Watch and Metaknight are definitely the most difficult for me. Is it even possible for Falco to get out of G&W's downthrow-downsmash? Both of them are kinda hard to hit with the laser and thus it's harder to keep good spacing against them, and once they get in close they can easily cause trouble if you aren't careful and get out fast. Then the spacing troubles start again. Anyone have any tips? haha

Jigglypuff is also somewhat annoying and troublesome, but no where near the previous two IMO.


I'm not sure what a lot of you mean about Snake being a bad match-up for Falco. Explanation please? I don't really have any trouble when fighting Snake.

 

[TheKneeOfJustice]

I'll rework my opinion right now to GaW being Falco's worst match-up. GaW excels at being aggressive and doing it well, which can give a lot of players fits. Also, he can gimp all of your recoveries fairly easy.

After that, I'm not sure. A lot of people say Metaknight, but more and more I find Metaknight is a reason to play Falco.

 

[deadringers]

Pit- can be a hassle cause he can out camp you, just pressure him and when he is coming back laser him
Metaknight- i allways save my back flip and use it for a kill
Toonlink- Dont try to take him in the air his bairs,fairs, and nairs are better than you....
Snake & Dedede-both can be chain throwed dont really have a problem there
G&W- same as toon link has good air game, just keep him on the ground and kill with forward smash

 

[Codi]

from my last tournament i had the hardest time with snake olimar and toonlink

 

[Ulevo]

I have had consistent problems with Pro Yoshi's. Their recovery is really good. The Juggernaut grabs, tongue and Yoshi Bomb. The second jump invulnerability while you can still rack up damage, cancels the spiking. In air, Yoshi's attacks always overpower Falco's. Yoshi has a really good balance between weight and speed, he's approximately 2% heavier than Wolf, but almost as fast. And sometimes it's hard to Chaingrab them, it may be me, but when I was using my Dpad (Wii Mochuk) they DI'ed really easily, later I started using A+B grabbing and problem solved.

I find that the Shine (counters firstly the Bomb, the eggs and it stops the rolling egg), FoxTrot to FSmash, and surprise SHDAs work really good. Spaming Phantasm is always good, as also is a Surprise shortstop Phantasm (dunno how are they officially called). SHDLing works really well at destroying the eggs and hitting him at the same time.

Other annoying little worms are (as mentioned before) MK, Pit (he spams stuff, I counterspam Shine ), G&W (he's too powerful ) and Wolf (he's one tough camping little son of her doggy mom).

FYI, Footstooling ruins Yoshis double jump, and is easy enough to perform while recovering.

 

[mrbr0wn1e]

FYI, Footstooling ruins Yoshis double jump, and is easy enough to perform while recovering.

Really!? I have tried but I just bounce up and Yoshi keeps ...paddling?...kicking?.. moving his little fat legs?.. yeah I'll go with the last one. Well I'll try with my brother maybe I just didn't paid enough attention. Thanks for the info

 

[Ichikazu]

G&W is defiantly the character I have the most trouble with. However I notice that it takes nearly perfect timing to counter him because of the lasting effects of his attacks. He has oil panic to stock up on your lasers which nearly forces you to play close. His air game seems better, but G&W is open if you roll around him during a smash and counter with your own. Force G&W to do smashes and evade/counter.

 

[TheKneeOfJustice]

I can see why some people have difficulties with Snake. It is a very peculiar match-up. I try to work my way in slowly with lasers because if you rush in too fast you will just get tilted back out of range, and you need to account for the the grenades a smart Snake player will use. Many Snake's however approach you with mortar slides, so if you can frustrate them long enough with lasers and shines, very often Snake will end up right next to you. From there try to work them over with grabs and tilt combos, as well as forcing them closer to the edge with shines and f-tilts.

D-smash and F-smash will be your best KO bets, and Bair can knock Snake off his cypher recovery. Remember to keep the move undecayed though, as you want each hit to count versus a Snake, because their hits are harder, and come to them easier than ours do.

 

[Massiveguns]

im a pretty experienced falco and alot of people are complaining about G@W..... i agree its a anoying matchup but he has a few flaws u can exploit

my advice here is to use ur Dair ALOT G@W is a really short POS and ur dair will help tons in the air or on the ground...
dont use lasers very often... get him to try and use his bucket on 1 or 2 and punish his lagging .... i also like to Empty SH or SH single laser with no intention of hitting him to try and push a bucket then as soon as u see that stupid bucket dash atack cancel up smash (scoot) into his face and pound him into the air

as soon as G@W is in the air keep using ur BAir it is fast enough to win most prio games and can sort of combo if used corectly

JAB JAB JAB JAB JAB JAB... whenever ur on the ground jab u never want to let G@W use a ground atack its terrible news for you DAir his sheild and DI away from him then jab ... empty SH and jab never get grabbed G@W's grab auto combo's into his D smash which is totaly stupid so dont let it happen

punish his Dair with jabs or tilts dont get hit by it and try to get G@W off the stage because u can BAir camp him forever

 

[BEES]

Game&Watch seems unusually difficult to fight. I've resorted to purposefully filling up his bucket so that I could reflect it back at him, but when it's full you really have to be on your toes.

 

[Roller]

I hate G&W when usin falco

 

[itsthebigfoot]

a good DK or wario, just cause they both can't be camped (can't be camped effectively at least), and kill much quicker than falco (I usually kill my friends falco ~ 80% and die around 170%)

note: you won't play many good dks yet, but you'll find warios all over tourneys

 

[DMG]

im a pretty experienced falco and alot of people are complaining about G@W..... i agree its a anoying matchup but he has a few flaws u can exploit

my advice here is to use ur Dair ALOT G@W is a really short POS and ur dair will help tons in the air or on the ground...
dont use lasers very often... get him to try and use his bucket on 1 or 2 and punish his lagging .... i also like to Empty SH or SH single laser with no intention of hitting him to try and push a bucket then as soon as u see that stupid bucket dash atack cancel up smash (scoot) into his face and pound him into the air

as soon as G@W is in the air keep using ur BAir it is fast enough to win most prio games and can sort of combo if used corectly

JAB JAB JAB JAB JAB JAB... whenever ur on the ground jab u never want to let G@W use a ground atack its terrible news for you DAir his sheild and DI away from him then jab ... empty SH and jab never get grabbed G@W's grab auto combo's into his D smash which is totaly stupid so dont let it happen

punish his Dair with jabs or tilts dont get hit by it and try to get G@W off the stage because u can BAir camp him forever

Sadly, most of this won't work on a good G&W. You WILL get punished after a missed dair even if you hit the shield and DI away. The lasers part is great advice cause you can do that and exploit the lag from the bucket but it is a bit situational (they can just air dodge them instead of bucket). Bair gets beat out by the turtle, his fair, and his dair so I would only use it to pressure him in the air or if it's almost guaranteed to hit. Edgeguarding G&W is near impossible with anyone and Falco is no exception. Jabbing a lot on the ground makes you even more vulnerable than if you were just sitting there and doing nothing. If you are complaining about the dthrow to dsmash combo then complain no more: you can tech his throw and escape that combo, while Falco's chainthrow does more damage and is inescapable until a certain percent. Most G&W won't use dair on a shield but they will if you are in the air and below them so look out for that more than when you have a shield up.


I played a very good Falco recently with my G&W and he had no trouble making the playing field level. I knew that he had played against some G&W's before cause he would power shield my turtle every time and he knew how and when to punish nearly any little spacing mistakes I made. He also used his lasers occasionally but he mixed his game up and it got hard to predict what he would do. I think once people get used to playing G&W that the matchup will look a lot closer to being even than what people think it is now.

itsthebigfoot, the funny thing is that I went to a tournament yesterday and there were 3-4 good DK's and I was the only guy that played Wario at all Most people thought he sucked until I ***** the tournament director with him

 

[BEES]

Note: Falco's b-air and reflector both stop Metaknight's Mach Tornado in its tracks. However, once you're caught in it it's hard to get out.

It also appears that the b-air is a split kick that does damage both in front of and behind you. I think both feet will stop Mach Tornado, but the front one probably does less knockback or something. I really want to see if approaching with a b-air is feasible.

 

[Cloak020]

For me fighting G&W causes me problems occasionally, and so does Diddy Kong.

 

[Da N]

His worst match ups are snake, Mk, and rob

Snake- getting close is almost impossible. With his tilts and a-a-a combo youll be dead a minute and thirty seconds into it. Your best shot is to double sh blaster (short hop shoot twice). The doubles useful becuase he can't jump and hes tall enough to be hit with the second one. If he gets close its really easy to shine stop him. My friend thinks im being a coward cus every time he gets close i kick out my shine and he trips. In the event that he does get close, a-a-a combo until he backs out then kick out your shine. if your lucky he'll trip and try to roll into you, setting up for an f-smash. Point is keep your distance, you can rack up a lot of damage that way and then go in for the kill.

Meta Knight- MKs definitely tough. They just love to get all up in your face and use their insane combos to really frustrate you. Here, its almost impossible to keep your distance becuase hes so fast. Chaingrabbing wont work after hes at 30% because hes so light. So youll just have to counter his aerials with yours. B-air destroys MK becuase of knockback and priority. Your worst nightmare is getting caught under the stage and trying to fire-falco your way back up. The startup lag leaves you wide open for a d-air, which will usually ricochet you off the stage and ultimately resulting in your death. Your best bet is to just go at him and attack him hard, countering his game plan whatever way you can.

Rob- Robs the easiest out of these three. Chaingrab works exceptionally well, and keepin gyour distance isnt that tough. Reflecting his projectiles is a cinch too. If your a smash vet and are able to keep your eyes on your opponent and not you, then reflecting them wont be difficult at all. The physical motions ROB has to go through should cause this giant gong to go off in your head and say "THROW OUT YOUR SHINE!". But enough about the good things, time for the cons. ROB has this one advantage over spacies that just kill. His f-air can easily carry you off the stage to the point of no return, and thanks to ROB's fantastic up-b, he can easily return back. Watch out for his dash to d-smash. Theres no use gaurding that since the d-smash will just go right through your shield. His aerials shouldnt be a problem if you know when to airdodge. Theres a whole lo lot of startup lag and they don't have any duration so dodging them should be quite simple. Again shine stopping helps alot too.

As for toonlink im not sure, i don't play many. But good luck and try out som eof my techniques.

 

[Tommy_G]

My top counterpicks for Falco would be Pit (he can out camp Falco and has a better off-ledge game), Game and Watch(fast and can bucket lasers...annoying as hell), Marth(small counterpick), and maybe Kirby(Cant chaingrab and Kirby has very good beginning combos on Falco). I've never played a good Jiggs or Yoshi so I wouldn't know. Falco wrecks heavy people nasty. Chaingrab to spike=game over. I two stocked this good DK at a tournament with Falco. Snake is not anything special. Camp the hell out of him until he gets aggressive then chaingrab and spike, like previously stated. Metaknight is not a Falco counter; he's just an overall good character.

 

[zamz]

I know everyone wants to say MK is a difficult matchup for Falco, but I'm willing to bet MK has as much difficulty as we do. In fact, I bet it's -harder- for MK to compete against a good Falco. Our lasors and reflector outrank pretty much all of MK's spammable attacks. Metaknight has better melee skills, but we can camp him. I'd say the match isn't Falco's most difficult, it's just long and gruesome. Both players end up exhuasted...it's just not a fun match at all.

Pit is certainly not Falco's hardest matchup. Falco's reflector goes -through- Pit's reflector. Stand a bit away Pit's reflector, hit your reflector, and you'll hurt Pit every time. And if you constantly spam reflector, it's impossible for pit to arrow-hit you. And considering Pit's arow has so much lag, typically a good double jump and D-Air can hit a arrow-spamming Pit. If you immediately break into spamming AAAAA, you can typically force him into your melee arm-ttornado. I think Pit's matchup is difficult, but not impossible.

--

I don't know why, but my biggest problem with Falco is a good Olimar. A good Olimar can smash Falco from any direction. A good Olimar's grab is longer than ANY of falco's melee attacks. A good Olimar has attacks that override Falco's attacks. Olimar's F-Smash is probably the only attack in the game that can go through Falco's reflector. A skilled Olimar who knows how to space you is nearly untouchable. My -only- chance for winning, is gimping him by knocking him off the edge.

And even then, I find myself struggling to get the 60 or so % required to knock him far enough. Blasted Olimar...XD

 

[Da N]

Metaknight is not a Falco counter; he's just an overall good character.

Heh not really. Yes he is an overall good character but a specific counter for Falco. His quickness and agility makes it easy to get around his lasers and shines. His aerials are almost as good as Falcos seeing as though theyre just plain faster than his. The chaingrab is all but useless after he gets to 30% and his ability to edgeguard people is phenomenal, which absolutely sucks for falco.

 

[Anytime_Minutes]

Sadly, most of this won't work on a good G&W. You WILL get punished after a missed dair even if you hit the shield and DI away. The lasers part is great advice cause you can do that and exploit the lag from the bucket but it is a bit situational (they can just air dodge them instead of bucket). Bair gets beat out by the turtle, his fair, and his dair so I would only use it to pressure him in the air or if it's almost guaranteed to hit. Edgeguarding G&W is near impossible with anyone and Falco is no exception. Jabbing a lot on the ground makes you even more vulnerable than if you were just sitting there and doing nothing. If you are complaining about the dthrow to dsmash combo then complain no more: you can tech his throw and escape that combo, while Falco's chainthrow does more damage and is inescapable until a certain percent. Most G&W won't use dair on a shield but they will if you are in the air and below them so look out for that more than when you have a shield up.


I played a very good Falco recently with my G&W and he had no trouble making the playing field level. I knew that he had played against some G&W's before cause he would power shield my turtle every time and he knew how and when to punish nearly any little spacing mistakes I made. He also used his lasers occasionally but he mixed his game up and it got hard to predict what he would do. I think once people get used to playing G&W that the matchup will look a lot closer to being even than what people think it is now.

itsthebigfoot, the funny thing is that I went to a tournament yesterday and there were 3-4 good DK's and I was the only guy that played Wario at all Most people thought he sucked until I ***** the tournament director with him

Game and Watch is a 2d beast. Game and watches only challenge is olimar

 

[grandmaster192]

Probably a Tornado spamming MetaKnight. It's the only time I've ever seen Seth have that much trouble (he usually just smashes everyone to pieces).

 

[zamz]

The match-up chart suggests that Zelda is one of 3 characters who dominate Falco: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=157979

Yet I don't see it. I've yet to face a Zelda who competes -anywhere- near as well as Olimar or MK or GW or Pit...or pretty much half the cast for that matter.

Someone mind clearing up why 'Zelda' is the Anti-Falco? Or is the matchup chart inaccurate?