Falco's OoS options(Out of Shield)

kismet2 · Apr 15, 2009

I've seen people mention Falco's Usmash OoS in their posts many times. But when I watch videos I almost never see an aerial(Nair, Dair, Bair or Usmash) out of shield. With OoS stuff it's much safer and it gives you more opportunities to punish someone. For example, if a Snake Ftilts you from behind, you may try to turn around and grab him but then he throws out another Ftilt. In that situation Bair OoS would've worked better. Falco's really deadly with this. And I've been looking at Frame data for Metaknight to see when can I really retaliate with Bair OoS after he Fairs or Dair. So it may be easier to pull off when you know how long your opponent is actually vulnerable. Denzi told me about IAP OoS so try and add that to your gameplay as well, especially if you're stuck next to the ledge and you want to return to the center of the stage.

Discuss.

Also, we should probably steal frame data from every character boards put them here for easy access and sticky this thread.

__crystal____ said:
Frame Data Stolen Succesfully:

Bowser: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=206219

Captain Falcon:

Diddy Kong:

Donkey Kong: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=202958

Falco: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=187546

Fox: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=188497

Mr. Game and Watch: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=189251

Ganondorf: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=200364

Ice Climbers:

Ike: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=202837

Jigglypuff: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=216922

King Dedede: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=229809

Kirby: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=144039

Link: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=228233

Lucario: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=211488

Lucas: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=211307

Luigi: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=158745

Mario: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=219407

Marth: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=204825

Meta Knight: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=205614

Ness: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=207559

Olimar: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=225377

Peach: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=191426

Pikachu: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=223901

Pit:

Pokemon Trainer: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=224610

Robotic Operator Buddy:

Samus:

Shiek: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=178230

Snake: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=225125

Sonic: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=196148

Toon Link: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=193918

Wario: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=210128

Wolf: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=194120

Yoshi: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=213922

Zelda:

Zero Suit Samus: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=178317

The blank ones are the people I couldn't find data for or really only sparce data.

Emperor Time · Apr 15, 2009

Ftilt OoS works wonders from me. Especially when I don't have the liberty of punishing with a jab.

kismet2 · Apr 15, 2009

Emperor Time said:
Ftilt OoS works wonders from me. Especially when I don't have the liberty of punishing with a jab.

Ftilt has good range and is very hard to punish. So that's pretty good.

J4pu · Apr 15, 2009

can bair OoS even hit a grounded MK? cuz it can't hit Ness :/

somebody else brought up IAP OoS because it can punish well spaced attacks that don't have too little lag.
personally I love Usmash OoS

I thought OoS strictly meant things that you JC shield with then proceed to use w/e attack
does it also refer to things where you drop shield normally?

Bloodcross · Apr 15, 2009

Agreed. I basically use Aerials OoS most of the time, especially against mindless spotdodgers/rollers. An OoS attack should come out fast and have little ending lag (say Bowsers Fortress etc...). Falco doesn't have a great or even good OoS shield imo. For non-aerial OoS methods, Utilt OoS is a good option. It's pretty good when facing frontward, say against Fox's Dair. Utilt > Upsmash imo

kismet2 · Apr 15, 2009

J4pu said:
can bair OoS even hit a grounded MK? cuz it can't hit Ness :/

somebody else brought up IAP OoS because it can punish well spaced attacks that don't have too little lag.
personally I love Usmash OoS

Yeah, Bair can hit any short character, you have to use the aerial immediately as you short hop, so think of using Ganon's lagless short hop Dair. And it Metaknight uses Fair it makes it easier to hit him since he's in the air.

Bloodcross said:
Agreed. I basically use Aerials OoS most of the time, especially against mindless spotdodgers/rollers. An OoS attack should come out fast and have little ending lag (say Bowsers Fortress etc...). Falco doesn't have a great or even good OoS shield imo. For non-aerial OoS methods, Utilt OoS is a good option. It's pretty good when facing frontward, say against Fox's Dair. Utilt > Upsmash imo

True, Falco may not have a good shield, but it helps him go about things very safe. And if his shield is running out then just run and camp.

NJzFinest · Apr 15, 2009

Dacus OoS = <3 (as long as you use down C)

kismet2 · Apr 15, 2009

NJzFinest said:
Dacus OoS = <3 (as long as you use down C)

That's too good.

gunterrsmash01 · Apr 15, 2009

when you guys do upsmash or boost upsmash (dacus) do you drop the shield (takes 6 frames) or do you jump cancel it (which eliminates the 6 frames of shield dropping). i can do the jump canceled upsmash (OOS) and its quicker then normally dropping your shield and upsmashing. however a jump cancelled boost/DACUS upsmash sounds hard to do , ill try it later. actually i dont even think its possible, i think you have to drop your shield first and then DACUS, but ill try it later anyways.

Vlade · Apr 15, 2009

Ever been up close to ROB's that love to spotdodge and downsmash?

Dair OoS is your friend here. The dsmash can't hit you, plus it pops the ROB into the air above you which is where he is at a disadvantage. The dsmash will also usually push you too far away to shieldgrab.

J4pu · Apr 15, 2009

you can't JC boost smash, it requires dashing
anytime I mention OoS options I am referring to JC shield > w/e action I stated

Denzi · Apr 15, 2009

J4pu said:
you can't JC boost smash, it requires dashing
anytime I mention OoS options I am referring to JC shield > w/e action I stated

That's what I thought was meant by OoS. It's good because you can punish faster than your opponent would be able to react.

I've been looking more into general OoS options ever since I've picked up Marth. Granted, Falco's OoS options aren't as good as Marth's or anything (invincibility frames on up B and awesome Fair/Bair range), but they're certaintly nothing to scoff at. The best way to do them would (imo) be to jump with the Control Stick and C-Stick the aerial. You don't have to worry about fullhopping, because as long as you aerial fast enough, you automatically SH. The only thing that requires practice it the timing, if you stick the aerial too soon you'll roll instead of jump. Other than that, they're not that tough to get down.

Edit:

I always have a tough time with JC shield -> Nair though, I usually have to shield drop that.

Elyssa Xey Hexen · Apr 16, 2009

I really need to work on OoS mix-ups. I have always done attempted grabs or jabs > whatever.

@Denzi: Even if the Bair OoS did hit MK, would work very often with the whole lack of cooldown frames on practically every attack he has? Timing it seems pretty small.

Denzi · Apr 16, 2009

__crystal____ said:
@Denzi: Even if the Bair OoS did hit MK, would work very often with the whole lack of cooldown frames on practically every attack he has? Timing it seems pretty small.

If done right, the OoS Bair should hit even a grounded MK. All it really takes is patience. You have to time it right so you don't end up trying to Bair through MK's Ftilt or something. And remember, these aren't just for vs. Meta, our OoS options are great vs other characters, especially ones with laggier attacks.

Basically yes, even though MK has near lagless attacks, these should still work. (Don't try it after his Fsmash though, that thing's ending lag is literally nonexistent >_<)

Also, (I know it sounds obvious), make sure you pay attention to the direction you're facing, because SH Fair OoS could be disasterous, especially at high %s. And what will you be doing more often at higher percents? That's right, sheilding! Which most likely means you'll be using OoS options to chip on some extra damage before you die. So seriously, be careful.

NJzFinest · Apr 16, 2009

Oh, and when I said dacus OoS, I meant the one where Falco hits twice, not the one where he flies across the stage. I'm horrible with Brawl terminology.

Denzi · Apr 16, 2009

NJzFinest said:
Oh, and when I said dacus OoS, I meant the one where Falco hits twice, not the one where he flies across the stage. I'm horrible with Brawl terminology.

Gatling Combo. That'd work as a nice surprise, but it might be tough to pull off on some of the faster characters (MK).

Elyssa Xey Hexen · Apr 16, 2009

kismet2 said:
Also, we should probably steal frame data from every character boards put them here for easy access and sticky this thread.

Denzi · Apr 16, 2009

^Someone needs to make that into a single guide for easier access. And the Frame by Frame code allows frame data for the missing characters to be gotten a lot more easily than it could've been before.

I might be up for it if no one else wants to do it.

Elyssa Xey Hexen · Apr 16, 2009

I have no method to get frame data right now. So I say go ahead.

Most of the stuff uptop was all done by a bunch of different people and they all had their own methods of displaying data and what data they have. Some didn't do stunlag, hitstun, etc. while others are still incomplete. 3GOD did like 5-6 guides and those are really complete. He must have spent a long time on them.

J4pu · Apr 16, 2009

frame data is frame data, as long as it's accurate I love whoever gets it for me/us
back then he was the only one getting it.

Also I just thought I'd let you all know, Nair OoS is Falco's quickest attack option (by 1 frame) 4 to jump, 3 for the hitbox to come out (7 total)
then: Bair, JC Usmash (8 frames)
then: Dair, shield-drop Jab (9 frames)

Shield Grab still beats everything at 6 frames
can't forget those jump frames for aerials.

IAP OoS doesn't hit until at least frame 17, you'd be better off dropping shield and hyphen smashing (frame 16)
but at least if they shield IAP you aren't going to get punished

Denzi · Apr 16, 2009

J4pu said:
IAP OoS doesn't hit until at least frame 17, you'd be better off dropping shield and hyphen smashing (frame 16)
but at least if they shield IAP you aren't going to get punished

But it's still good against the laggier characters and can reset your spacing to allow you room to resume pressuring your opponent with lasers.

And while shield grab wins out, you can's shield grab when they're behind you, JC sheild aerials can hit characters with larger range, and they can kill where grabs can't.

kismet2 · Apr 18, 2009

J4pu said:
frame data is frame data, as long as it's accurate I love whoever gets it for me/us
back then he was the only one getting it.

Also I just thought I'd let you all know, Nair OoS is Falco's quickest attack option (by 1 frame) 4 to jump, 3 for the hitbox to come out (7 total)
then: Bair, JC Usmash (8 frames)
then: Dair, shield-drop Jab (9 frames)

Shield Grab still beats everything at 6 frames
can't forget those jump frames for aerials.

IAP OoS doesn't hit until at least frame 17, you'd be better off dropping shield and hyphen smashing (frame 16)
but at least if they shield IAP you aren't going to get punished

I'll keep that in mind.

Also, is anyone familiar with the video that NJzFinest uploaded on Youtube(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyhnF4jZa_Y&feature=channel_page) that was demonstrating auto cancelled aerials? Use that concept with the Bair to hit any character OoS. Or with any aerials excluding the Fair and Uair so that the hitbox comes out as soon as possible.

Blad01 · Apr 18, 2009

Bair, Dair and DA Out Of Shield are really good, but I need to work on FTilt / IAP OoS, they seem really good

Moreover, you want sometimes to keep Bair fresh

Denzi · Apr 19, 2009

Blad01 said:
Bair, Dair and DA Out Of Shield are really good, but I need to work on FTilt / IAP OoS, they seem really good
Moreover, you want sometimes to keep Bair fresh

But DA and Ftilt aren't true OoS options, you have to drop your shield first.

Blad01 · Apr 19, 2009

Denzi said:
But DA and Ftilt aren't true OoS options, you have to drop your shield first.

Yes I know, but apparently we aren't really talking about "true" OoS options

Ftilt to Jab is so good out of shield ._. (Ftilt "out of shield" = 11 frames. So Bair OoS is better, but Ftilt is a good mix-up, and you can punish the opponent's reaction faster)

kismet2 · Apr 19, 2009

Blad01 said:
Bair, Dair and DA Out Of Shield are really good, but I need to work on FTilt / IAP OoS, they seem really good
Moreover, you want sometimes to keep Bair fresh

You could try and keep it fresh, but if it's constantly punishing my opponent and tacking on extra damage I'll do it lol. Besides, you can laser them a couple of times to refresh it a little.

Denzi · Apr 19, 2009

Blad01 said:
Ftilt to Jab is so good out of shield ._. (Ftilt "out of shield" = 11 frames. So Bair OoS is better, but Ftilt is a good mix-up, and you can punish the opponent's reaction faster)

But When an opponent attacks your shield, they're going to expect some sort of frontal attack, and it has a higher probability of being dodged/blocked. I think Dair does a good job of getting around spotdodges, and you can DI back, so it's just as safe on shield as Ftilt is.

Elyssa Xey Hexen · Apr 19, 2009

What about UpB one time in a match? I see it being remotely viable as no one ever uses it once. Even if you say it's DIable, most will likely not DI it correctly because it will be so surprising. And if your lucky enough you might get a LL out of it.

J4pu · Apr 19, 2009

if UpB had a hitbox right away it might be useful (on shields for instance) but because the hitbox doesn't come out in forever I think better players will avoid it at best, punish you at worst

Falco's OoS options(Out of Shield)

Smash Ace

Smash Lord

Smash Ace

Smash Champion

Smash Champion

Smash Ace

Smash Hero

Smash Ace

Smash Champion

Social Outcast

Smash Champion

Smash Master

Broken!

Smash Master

Smash Hero

Smash Master

Broken!

Smash Master

Broken!

Smash Champion

Smash Master

Smash Ace

Smash Lord

Smash Master

Smash Lord

Smash Ace

Smash Master

Broken!

Smash Champion

Information

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