Falcon is top tier

[Darky-Sama]

Keep in mind, dashing shieldgrabs also exists and help Falcon a lot.

That's the main reason I'm saying he works extremely well through a defensive playstyle. Wait and punish. Approach, pull up a shield and grab.

 

[Player-3]

hey guys

falcon has uair

auto better than ganon jiggz ike and w/e else is below ike currently

 

[A2ZOMG]

It isn't just that Falcon has U-air. Falcon has Jab Grab U-throw/D-throw U-air. That makes Falcon >>> bottom tier.

 

[Kishin]

The only thing that Falcon has going for him that keeps him out of bottom tier is his speed + mobility.

EDIT: and u-air...

 

[Player-3]

and uair

 

[Yonder]

w/e else is below ike currently

Lucas
Mario
Ness
Yoshi


Hahaha good one . No way in hell Falcon's better than Mario. These characters are below Ike currently in this order

 

[teluoborg]

Falcon still sucks. Lacking disjoint (or utilt, someone show the hitbox size of Falcon's utilt?)

Take Lucas' Fsmash, Falcon's Utilt beats it.
Take the platform on Smashville, Falcon's Utilt reaches it.

Zelda doesn't have the frame data of MK teloborg. Her frame data is more like G&W's honestly, slower on the startup, quicker on the cooldown, but she lacks the mobility and aerial options to really feasibly do anything to approach. And approach options are very relevant in Brawl, since what options you do have to deal with other campy playstyles are obviously neccessary to survive in this game.

Just throwing that here :
Fsmash hits on 16, IASA 40 (MK 23/42)
Dsmash hits on 4, IASA 40 (MK 5/35)
Usmash hits on 5, IASA 57 (MK 8/50)

I won't even bother talking about the aerials, Dtilt or NL.
Add to this a recovery that is good as long as she's not under the stage level and you have a really underestimated character that has better potential than Falcon.

And campy playstyles<powershield.
The fact is that if you find yourself approaching in Brawl instead of zoning you are doing it wrong.

 

[Player 7]

eu mamo leitinho

 

[DoonKoon]

guys, if you believe Wario Vs. Falcon is even, then why do you think Ganon has an advantage over you?

 

[lordhelmet]

guys, if you believe Wario Vs. Falcon is even, then why do you think Ganon has an advantage over you?

Both of those statements are wrong.

40-60 against Wario
55-45 agaisnt Ganon

 

[Player-3]

Oh yeah mario def better

So is ness/lucas

 

[smashkng]

If Falcon doesn't beat anyone but Ganon and arguably Link and gets ***** by so many characters, why isn't he the 2nd worst character?

 

[A2ZOMG]

Are you really sure that Falcon's matchups are that bad?

Although for now I guess his matchups are bad...considering how difficult it is to use this character.

 

[Darky-Sama]

Falcon's match-ups aren't bad at all.

It's just his horrible properties compared to the rest of the roster and his ability to utilize them that's really keeping him down. It's basically "Anything Falcon can do, someone else can do better". Most of those horrible properties allow him to get wrecked in various ways too. Falcon's really subjectable to a lot of really harsh ****. Which makes using him properly that much more difficult. You got to have a LOT of skill to actually play Falcon up to par with most other characters, regardless of what their skill level is.

Like it was said before, his mobility and ability to punish are the main things that are unique about him. Speed, aerial control and auto canceling. Fox, Sheik and Meta Knight are the only characters that even come close to that. Even then, Falcon still has the most control.

 

[BigLord]

I disagree. Most of Captain Falcon's match-ups plainly suck. All we got on them are mindgames and such. Of course, there are exceptions (I can think of Bowser, who's not that bad, and Ganondorf) but...

... well, like you said, we need to be REALLY good to outclass the other characters.

 

[A2ZOMG]

There is a difference between a matchup being technical and a matchup sucking.

Well uh frankly, I guess both apply to most of Falcon's matchups...his matchups are all technical and they usually suck. But anyhow assuming you have the technical skill to control Falcon, I really think his matchups are generally underestimated.

Falcon requires a fairly good understanding of how followups work, and he needs rather precise timing to make the most of his aerials and other moves. His aerials can do decent things, but besides being hindered by Falcon's limitations, he's also hindered a lot by what his player is capable of doing.

 

[BigLord]

I think Falcon's best option is to mindgame and punish the opponent, by predicting his/her moves. But for that, you must know your opponent. Which means that kind of gameplay is useless in a massive tournament.

Of course, going technical is also very important, but if your opponent ALSO knows the match-up, you're pretty much ******.

 

[Darky-Sama]

Falcon's metagame is stuck between two things.

1.) Being used at a professional level, how this game should be played: Defensively. Reading your opponent and punish accordingly. At a somewhat sluggish pace, spacing yourself and getting percents and combos in accordingly without trying to stay in your opponents face the entire match.

2.) Being manly. Screwing the rules because you have a helmet, a suit with pins on it's nipples and the calves of a god. Who cares if you win or lose? Whatever looks manly, DO IT.

Obviously #2 isn't smart at all, but eh. Falcon is one of those characters people use for fun and as a 'joking around' character. I only know a handful of people who use him at a truly competitive standpoint.

 

[lordhelmet]

Darky, you can play fast and that doesn't automatically mean you're "screwing the rules".

Yes, defensive play is theoretically better, but you're not giving option #2 much light.

You can play fast and still punish/read your opponent, it's just that the slow/boring style is arguably more effective.

 

[Anonymous Brawler]

eu mamo leitinho

Você fala português?

 

[A2ZOMG]

I think Falcon's best option is to mindgame and punish the opponent, by predicting his/her moves. But for that, you must know your opponent. Which means that kind of gameplay is useless in a massive tournament.

Of course, going technical is also very important, but if your opponent ALSO knows the match-up, you're pretty much ******.

I disagree with the last statement to an extent. Yeah Falcon does have unwinnables admittedly, but at the same time on an objective analysis of Falcon's options, I really think his options allow him to be competitively competent in many more matchups. He has mobility and a few very safe attacks that come out before reaction time, which is something that a few other characters in this game actually lack.

I guess one of my advantages when I use Falcon is my superior mindgames (being a Mario main has given me really good intuition for spacing F-smash, and I deliberately try to apply Falcon Punches for serious mindgame kills), but I don't really consider spacing his safer moves and juggling/pressuring someone reliably a matter of mindgames. I think it's something the character is actually able to do.

Although I guess I really can't argue that Falcon is any better than pretty much low tier, but ultimately I think his matchups could stand to be revised in the future.

 

[Darky-Sama]

Darky, you can play fast and that doesn't automatically mean you're "screwing the rules".

Yes, defensive play is theoretically better, but you're not giving option #2 much light.

You can play fast and still punish/read your opponent, it's just that the slow/boring style is arguably more effective.

lmfao. I know that. You know that's basically how we play.

People aren't going to play Falcon like a Bowser turtle obviously. That's just the best way to put it's effectiveness in words, as a general idea.

That, or they can play like me. Stand in place, short hop and fast fall with Bair over and over while the opponent is deciding on how to approach or punish, then just randomly go in for a buffered dash grab or something if you don't decide to move the bair and smack 'em with it. xD

 

[Acedude55]

whoa whoa whoa

what happened in here?

I'll read some other time. <_<

 

[Zatchiel]

If falcon was to go defensive midgame, What would be his greatest optoions?

 

[Player-3]

Uair. .

 

[Lionman]

Depending the match up

I usually use jab as a defensive move in ground
In Air i spam nair and uair

 

[Zatchiel]

N air and U air, ok, they both cancel into another move if they are auto canceled right?

 

[Lionman]

N air and U air, ok, they both cancel into another move if they are auto canceled right?

The best way to play defensive is learning how to move and practice, spam a move dont work very well

 

[Darky-Sama]

Defensively, you will also want to abuse your grab as much as possible to pressure opponents off of the stage. At least, that's what I do. It makes reading your opponent that much easier because their options of recovery are often limited to things that Falcon can punish really easily.

 

[Player 7]

Você fala português?

não...eu mamo leitinho

 

[Kitamerby]

 

[Gardex]

Saving that picture for the salvation of the world.

 

[Anonymous Brawler]

não...eu mamo leitinho

Por que você está falando português em um site americano?

 

[BigLord]

^Não dês comida aos trolls do off-topic, fachavor. Isto é o forum do :Falcon: ....



Darky-Sama, I think the best play-style for Captain Falcon is a hybrid between your #1 and #2, like lordhelmet said... because nothing feels better and is good for your ego (more important than you think) than ending a match with an epic knee/meteor smash/falcon punch.

 

[Anonymous Brawler]

^Não dês comida aos trolls do off-topic, fachavor. Isto é o forum do :Falcon: ....

Sorry? I was just asking cause I never saw someone speaking portuguese in this site.

 

[DMG]

Ok I change my mind: Falcon vs Wario is no fun for Falcon lol. I had no idea that Wario could CG Falcon for THAT long lol. I always knew he could CG him, but I forget the exact %'s.

I did it in tournament this weekend.

 

[Acedude55]

very homosexual.

 

[Darky-Sama]

Wait, what percent can Wario chaingrab Falcon up to?
This is news to me.

 

[DMG]

I had it going past 80%. Not sure exactly how long.

 

[Darky-Sama]

Can this be done starting at 0% or does it need to be around 60% to start?