Falco Vs. Sheik

[GawdImFoxy]

How do you guys fight Sheiks using Falco? More specifically, campy ones that do nothing but tech chase?

Some things that come to mind are DI'ing toward the ledge after the dthrow, but that's a good way to get ftilt>fair'ed. I've also tried blaster spamming, but all it takes is one grab, really. FD is a nightmare when it should be in my advantage.

Any tips?

 

[BiN Breezy]

Just space which is really tough considering Sheiks reach advantage. But you just got to space your lasers and do a little combo here a little combo there and really try not to get grabbed.Sheiks are just gay.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

Uhh, keep her at arms length. CP FD, don't let her platform camp, and have less predictable tech. Also, nair combos.

 

[null55]

D-air the *****'s face.

 

[GawdImFoxy]

I imagine it's in my best interest to stay on the stage, too? I mean, Falco has next to no recovery ability, and Sheik's edgeguard is nearly spotless. I find I die more often due to gimps than tech chase > ftilt > fair.

Thanks for the advice, guys. Why should I CP FD though? I kinda like PS and BF against Sheik.

 

[unknown522]

If she camps you, laser her.

It's really that simple.

If she tries to go above you, then u-air / tilt. Or keep shooting lasers.

Edit: you can CC if she's above you, then get a 50%+ combo.

 

[GawdImFoxy]

I make lasers my primary damage dealer if I need to. When should I look for the Shine combo though? After a CC'ed aerial? Spot dodge a grab?

 

[MegaFEAR]

spotdodge the grab? just shine the hoe

full hop ff d-air, up tilt, back air... just something simple like that is > 50%

I kind of agree though, i love BF against shiek those platforms are perfect for comboing. But I still CP fd always

 

[GawdImFoxy]

Hah, sounds great. I like the full hop dair > Shine/uptilt/whatever idea... I don't know why I never thought of trying that.

My timing's still a bit off sometimes as far as out-prioritizing her grabs though, so I'll try to avoid spot dodging and replacing it with a shine for practice.

What about edge guarding? Obviously, dair comes to mind, but what about like a drop bair?

Again, thanks everyone, the only good player I play against consistently mains Sheik so it's good practice. I have most of the likely matchups down pretty well.

 

[Falcinho]

If she camps you, laser her.

It's really that simple.

If she tries to go above you, then u-air / tilt. Or keep shooting lasers.

Edit: you can CC if she's above you, then get a 50%+ combo.

^this

umm edgeguard ....
just grab the ledge and make sure sheik doesn't hit you with rejump fair or upB-explosions
She'll have to recover onto the stage --> hit her off the stage again with dsmash/fsmash/bair
or kill with dtilt when you racked up enough %

stage...
Just pick a stage where you feel comfortable
I personally like FD against Sheik because she can't platform camp there,
of course i can laser camp back on platform stages but thats boring
And i like PS because Sheik has to do needle charge trixxies so she can shorthop under the platforms in the neutral transformation of the stage


oh and ftilt
ftilt ***** Sheik

 

[unknown522]

I make lasers my primary damage dealer if I need to. When should I look for the Shine combo though? After a CC'ed aerial? Spot dodge a grab?

sorry late reply.

Spot dodging is generally bad. Since everyone plays defensive now, they actually try to wait for your spot dodge. It's generally better to roll, or wavedash out of shield. If you think she's gonna grab, d-air at her. If she shields, then you get to pressure her, or you can move away. Full hoping is generally bad as well. Since his jump is so high, you are vulnerable most of the time. During combos it's needed though.

The time to get combos are:
- when the get hit while you are pressuring their shield
- when they get hit by a laser form close distance
- If you hit them with a random d-air / n-air
- When you anti-air them with u-tilt
- If you shine through a move

For stages:
- Dreamland is amazing
- FD
- battlefield
- I actually think FoD is pretty good, though everyone else will probably argue with me
- CP stages (not really brinstar)

 

[AprilShaw]

Most of what I was gonna say's been covered, but once she's on your *** make sure you aren't predictable.

The last thing you wanna do is tech away from her throws every time. If it means you gotta sit there for a second while she runs off to wherever she thinks you'll go, do it. Also if you get a free moment and wanna get out of the ****, at lower %s I like to shine -> full hop, it messes with their rhythm and can save you. Good Sheiks'll gimp you out of a full jump often, though, except maybe on FD.

 

[TresChikon]

I make lasers my primary damage dealer if I need to. When should I look for the Shine combo though? After a CC'ed aerial? Spot dodge a grab?

Lasers aren't for racking up damage, they're for controlling your enemies' space, creating openings, and baiting approaches.

If you rely on lasers for damage, you'll find yourself misspacing them far too often and falling prey to simple dash attack and tilt combos.

 

[L__]

For stages:
- FD
- battlefield
- I actually think FoD is pretty good, though everyone else will probably argue with me

I love these stages against Sheik

 

[unknown522]

Lasers aren't for racking up damage, they're for controlling your enemies' space, creating openings, and baiting approaches.

If you rely on lasers for damage, you'll find yourself misspacing them far too often and falling prey to simple dash attack and tilt combos.

Correct.

I love these stages against Sheik

Cool, same here.

I personally hate dreamland. Just as a stage.

 

[Falcinho]

Yeah it's so bright and full of hope, dark stages are awsome
And the background music is EVERYWHERE at any tourney

Nah seriously I'm fine with dreamland although it makes some matches last forever

 

[L__]

Correct.

Cool, same here.

I personally hate dreamland. Just as a stage.

lol

dreamland cost me a tournament match

**** wind

I do well on there from time to time...

 

[unknown522]

Yeah it's so bright and full of hope, dark stages are awsome
And the background music is EVERYWHERE at any tourney

Nah seriously I'm fine with dreamland although it makes some matches last forever

yeah, I hate that stage for that reason. Even though I main fox and it's an amazing stage for him

lol

dreamland cost me a tournament match

**** wind

I do well on there from time to time...

lol. The most annoying thing to happen is the wind glitch with marth.

But yeah, back in '07, I lost a tourney set vs a marth as fox because the wind blew us to the edge, then I got D-thrown off the stage. I was at 20% and he was at around 130% last stock, final match. I then illusioned early and didn't make it high enough to the stage. It was kind of an SD, but kind of not.

I should've mashed out of the grab, but oh well, it's too late now.

 

[L__]

But yeah, back in '07, I lost a tourney set vs a marth as fox because the wind blew us to the edge, then I got D-thrown off the stage. I was at 20% and he was at around 130% last stock, final match. I then illusioned early and didn't make it high enough to the stage. It was kind of an SD, but kind of not.

I should've mashed out of the grab, but oh well, it's too late now.

That's terrible... lol

I missed a tech against Falcon and he charged a down smash out of range.

Guess what happened?

The wind blew him towards me while he was charging, I rolled to the edge.

The moment I got up I got punted in the face.

 

[TresChikon]

I wanna chop and burn that **** down with Roy.

nature johns

 

[Rubyiris]

DL64 is personally my favorite stage with Falco.

I firmly believe that it is Falco's best neutral.

Peach and Marth are two of Falco's worst matches, and Dramland is easily their worst neutral stage.

I don't care what any Peach player thinks about DL. The space animals have a huge advantage on that stage.

 

[AvengerAngel]

That's terrible... lol

I missed a tech against Falcon and he charged a down smash out of range.

Guess what happened?

The wind blew him towards me while he was charging, I rolled to the edge.

The moment I got up I got punted in the face.

OOOWWWWWW
That happened to me as well lol. So painful xD


I think DL is freakin good vs. Marf cause it's like Spam Land 64 and the platforms are excellent to keep the combos going, but vs. Peach... wtf? Why should I pick DL when I can take her to YS/PS and shine **** her ***? :O
Oh and BF is pretty good too. The edges are horrible but the platforms are the best for combos <3

 

[TresChikon]

DL64 is personally my favorite stage with Falco.

I firmly believe that it is Falco's best neutral.

Peach and Marth are two of Falco's worst matches, and Dramland is easily their worst neutral stage.

I don't care what any Peach player thinks about DL. The space animals have a huge advantage on that stage.

I don't have as much experience in those matchups as you, so this is just theory.

Wouldn't the huge blastboxes on both sides as well as an obscenely high ceiling work to play against spacies?

It's tough to get the dair kill on floaties unless you're on YS or FoD, so bair and edgeguards become the only things you can rely on.

So with mindful DI, I'm pretty sure Marth and Peach can live upwards of 120% while Falco is suffering some pretty low% gimps as always does against those two.

Just theory, correct me if you will.

 

[Mogwai]

moar lazers is the key to beating Sheik.

 

[Rubyiris]

I don't have as much experience in those matchups as you, so this is just theory.

Wouldn't the huge blastboxes on both sides as well as an obscenely high ceiling work to play against spacies?

It's tough to get the dair kill on floaties unless you're on YS or FoD, so bair and edgeguards become the only things you can rely on.

So with mindful DI, I'm pretty sure Marth and Peach can live upwards of 120% while Falco is suffering some pretty low% gimps as always does against those two.

Just theory, correct me if you will.

It's a trade-off, since Falco can control Dreamland better than most of the other neutrals. The spacing of the platforms play heavily to Falcos advantage. They are high enough to strip Marth of most of his platform tech chase game, and they are also high enough to effectively platform camp against the slower, floatier characters.

Fox and Falco do so much damage so quickly, that characters living 20% more doesn't always affect them too badly. dtilt still kills floaties at like 90~120%, but bair/fsmash unfortunately kill at like 120~150% from the middle of the stage.

All the neutral stages are neutral, because they give advantages to certain characters but balance it out by giving other equal advantages and disadvantages to other characters. It's just personal preference, and what you feel comfortable with.

 

[unknown522]

That's terrible... lol

I missed a tech against Falcon and he charged a down smash out of range.

Guess what happened?

The wind blew him towards me while he was charging, I rolled to the edge.

The moment I got up I got punted in the face.

LOL. That's horrible.

 

[unknown522]

Double post because this is important:

moar lazers is the key to beating Sheik.

^ this.

 

[Stratford]

Definitely DL64 in Falco v Marth.

 

[L__]

Out of curiosity, am I the only one that actually enjoys Falco vs. Sheik in here? Other Falco mains I really dislike that matchup.

 

[TresChikon]

Combos and maneuverability in exchange for slightly more challenging kills?

I like that trade-off, thanks for the advice Ruby.

 

[unknown522]

Out of curiosity, am I the only one that actually enjoys Falco vs. Sheik in here? Other Falco mains I really dislike that matchup.

I don't enjoy any character vs sheik, but it is probably one of my better matchups.

 

[Mogwai]

I like Falco vs. Sheik when I'm playing well and ****ing hate it when I'm playing poorly. I think Falco is Sheik's worst matchup, so when I play poorly I feel like such a scrub, but I just think he molests her so badly on stage that it's fun so long as you keep it on stage.

 

[L__]

I like Falco vs. Sheik when I'm playing well and ****ing hate it when I'm playing poorly. I think Falco is Sheik's worst matchup, so when I play poorly I feel like such a scrub, but I just think he molests her so badly on stage that it's fun so long as you keep it on stage.

O_O

I didn't know that was her worst matchup

It's so fun comboing her


=D

 

[Mogwai]

eh, most people think Fox is worse and some think that ICs might also be worse, but I think that Falcos that don't miss any l-cancels and don't approach the ledge eat Sheik up, nom nom nom.

 

[otg]

eh, most people think Fox is worse and some think that ICs might also be worse, but I think that Falcos that don't miss any l-cancels and don't approach the ledge eat Sheik up, nom nom nom.

Then everyone's worst matchup is Falco in that perfect universe.

 

[Deleted member]

you can just attack her. your moves are better than hers.

 

[Strong Badam]

not missing l-cancels and not being from florida isn't rare.

 

[Mogwai]

Then everyone's worst matchup is Falco in that perfect universe.

I'm not really arguing , though I think in said universe, Fox is still better vs. Jiggs and Peach.

 

[unknown522]

I like Falco vs. Sheik when I'm playing well and ****ing hate it when I'm playing poorly. I think Falco is Sheik's worst matchup, so when I play poorly I feel like such a scrub, but I just think he molests her so badly on stage that it's fun so long as you keep it on stage.

I think that jiggs / peach are falco's worst matchup.

Followed closely by marth.