Falco Matchup Thread

[#HBC | Ryker]

Reason why I do jab 1 instead of jab x2 is because since it's faster, you're more likely to catch the opponent off guard and get a follow up like a grab or ftilt. You just need to mix it up between using jab x1 and jab x2.

Are you,... ********?

Look, Marth can UpB out of every single follow-up Falco has for jab1 (including shield and spot dodge) aside from jab2. Jab2, however, can be followed up by shield and will stuff Marth UpB, allowing for a free follow-up. This lets you mix-up Marth out of jab2 because he's afraid of your shield. If you are prone to use jab1, then if Marth didn't UpB you, he didn't take the completely safe option and he should be exiled from Smash Civilization.

No, it's not about mixing up jab1 and jab2, it's about mixing up after jab2 in this MU.

 

[Blondie.]

Are you,... ********?

Look, Marth can UpB out of every single follow-up Falco has for jab1 (including shield and spot dodge) aside from jab2. Jab2, however, can be followed up by shield and will stuff Marth UpB, allowing for a free follow-up. This lets you mix-up Marth out of jab2 because he's afraid of your shield. If you are prone to use jab1, then if Marth didn't UpB you, he didn't take the completely safe option and he should be exiled from Smash Civilization.

No, it's not about mixing up jab1 and jab2, it's about mixing up after jab2 in this MU.

Sorry if I didn't make myself clear. I meant like just in general for falco like with other matchups, not marth.

I was referring to "Sp, we need to do Jab x2 far more and stop relying on only Jab 1. We're giving up free damage". He didn't say specifically with marth. In other matchups, jab x1 will usually get you a follow up easier than jab x2.But now that I reread his post, I guess he was talking about with just marth. So ya, you're right, we should always jab x2 with him.

While we're on the subject though, would you agree that in other matchups, jab x1 will often get you a follow up like grab easier?

 

[SN Viper]

Marth is not going to be using upB to beat jab, in most cases he will sdi and fair you. I am not sure how the 2x jab cancel works vs this.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

@Poke: Not sure what that is suppose to mean. I thought Jab2 never had an advantage, on any character after doing it with a few in testing, but now I want to look into it more. Not sure if B moves happen slower than other options (i.e jump).

@Blondie: I think you can theorize jab1 and jab2 being useful. Jab1 has the lowest IASA, reduced SDI multiplier, and you can never react to the beginning (except if you telegraph it, only the ending can you react too).

Jab2 gives you more time to react and do something, but if a person has to rely upon a precise timing such as SDI or getting an aerial out, mistakes are bound to happen occasionally. Its honestly one of those you just test what works more on your opponent.

Besides, you do not always have to use jab anyway before an action. Grab and Ftilt are pretty good on their own used in neutral.

@FGCU: It depends upon the Marth. I played a one who always would UpB whenever I use jabbed.

 

[1PokeMastr]

Well, I was testing it myself, and if we go by frame Data.
I was Di'ing Up with Marth the entire time of Jab two, and always PS'd it.
You can Spot dodge too. I can't seem to roll out before his Up B hits.

But, then I decided to test it on Mario with the same set up as Marth.
I only PS'd it once, but, I was amazed that his Jab 2 is safe on hit, for the most part.


And, my Post in General was always to use Jab x2 -> Cancel. It's the safest thing we have going for our close quarter combat, beside F-Tilt and D-Tilt ( Still odd in my opinion ).

And.. with a 2 Frame Advantage.. Jab x2 -> Repeat is a combo. As long as they don't SDi away.
Or SDi behind us.
But, even then, we shouldn't over use it to that extent anyway.

And, considering that Jab 1 ISN'T Safe to cancel with.

Jab 2 is the way to go.

( The transition from Jab 2 -> Jab 3 isn't safe either )

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Jab3 is never safe.

 

[Blondie.]

And.. with a 2 Frame Advantage.. Jab x2 -> Repeat is a combo. As long as they don't SDi away.

No this isn't true. For some reason, after jab2 you're shield will come up on frame 35 (After starting the jab 1, jab 2 combo) but you can't jab until frame 37 or else it will go into jab 3. So the jab hitbox doesn't come out until frame 38, and I'm pretty sure it won't out prioritize dolphin slash, so we need a minimum of a 4 frame advantage for it to be a combo, and that is if you are frame perfect (if you crouch cancel, you only need a 3 frame advantage).

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

The biggest point I think worth realizing is that jab1 -> shield or jab2-> shield is safe. Anything else is not necessarily all that great. The 2 frame advantage I referred to was the time from Marth's UpB hitbox. This is what I meant:

Spoiler

Jab2 vs MarthUpB Scenario
Frame 1: Marth UpB (Intangible) - Falco ending lag
Frame 2: Marth UpB (Intangible) - Falco ending lag
Frame 3: Marth UpB (Intangible) - Falco ending lag
Frame 4: Marth UpB (Intangible) - Falco can perform an action
Frame 5: Marth UpB (Intangible); Hitbox Comes out - Can perform an action

Assuming everything done as soon as possible -> on frame 4 and 5 falco can put up Shield and powershield. Roll does not have intangible frames on this 2nd frame. Spotdodging does activate intangibility in time. Powershielding will powershield the first 3 frames of shield being put out. So this explains what you found Poke.

Jabx2 -> Jabx2 will not work period. Marth is intangible during his UpB, so attempting to get jab 1 out after jab2 will only result in getting hit. The same with any other action. Marth's best and fastest retaliation option is UpB and will beat out anything Falco does after jab2 except shield and dodge.

Now, I have tested jab1 with a variety of characters and found the similar things. Many other characters cannot retaliate against jab1 or jab2 into Falco's shield. They can typically retaliate if Falco does anything other than shield after jab1 or jab2.

tl;dr? Adding emphasis that jab1 or jab2 -> shield is safe seemingly against most characters. Jab1 or jab2 -> ftilt/grab/roll/etc. is not seemingly safe most of the time. In fact, it seems like they are never safe.

 

[-DR3W-]

Pssst, we have an entire thread for the Marth matchup.

 

[1PokeMastr]

Well, I still feel Jab x2 -> Shield is safer than doing Jab 1 -> Shield.
As most characters won't have a move, and reaction time to punish it on hit consistently or at all.

 

[-DR3W-]

Well, I still feel Jab x2 -> Shield is safer than doing Jab 1 -> Shield.
As most characters won't have a move, and reaction time to punish it on hit consistently or at all.

10glare