Q&A Falco, King of the Birds: Game Play Discussion

[Leg]

As much as the frame cancel is great I think it's to risky to be a major game-changer

I feel FC Dair is Falco's greatest asset right now. Yes it's risky, but the payoff is amazing on fresh stocks. If you hit, you can score up around 41% guaranteed damage, plus a follow up. Or kill combos at later percents.

I feel it'll be essential for Falco in high level play. Honestly, the timing isn't too bad, it's setting up that's hard. And if you're both at 0%, where is the risk? Most characters only have combos that do around 20-30 damage. I'll trade that for a FC Dair anyday.

 

[ArhyLis]

I wonder if a Frame Cancelled Dair is easier to pull off on the Gamecube Controller.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Instead of trying to force FC Dair to be a thing... couldn't you actually just notice how good autocancel Dair is in juggle situations? Covers a lot of space and can easily trap airdodge. Waaay more practical and important imo.

 

[Zionaze]

I go for Dair cancels at 40%+ since even if I don't get the cancel It still counts as a spike so they still get blown away.

 

[Beach]

Well Structured Arguement

My only real fault with it is that it won't cancle on shield and for people not to start easily baiting it out we'd have to use it sparingly, thus we can't rely on it.

 

[ArhyLis]

I don't really like it to begin with. But to each their own.

 

[MoosyDoosy]

Can someone see if Jab -> Grab still works like in Brawl?
And if Grab -> Dair Cancel works?
Currently without a Wii U which makes attempting the Dair Cancel very difficult. -.-

 

[Zionaze]

More like Jab Jab Grab but they still have enough time to act out of it so yeah.
at low % Grab > Dair cancel works

 

[Ffamran]

So, I just realized that we had 2 general discussion threads. I merged them, but it's messy, functional, but messy.

 

[Gamegenie222]

Sorry guys i got pooped on and almost made it out of my smash 4 pools in losers which would of been top 32 but lost to Triple R a Kirby player and a buddy of mine named Gottoms from Missouri who beat me with Pit and dying during a transformation on Delphino plaza early in 2nd game didn't help much along with nerves when pools started for smash 4 oh well.

 

[Leg]

My only real fault with it is that it won't cancle on shield and for people not to start easily baiting it out we'd have to use it sparingly, thus we can't rely on it.

I think you're downplaying this AT. You can't just throw Dair out like you could in brawl as it will likely be shielded (though it will sometimes catch some opponents off guard). You must read for it; you know your opponent always rolls/attacks from ledge? You predict a getup attack or a missed tech? A roll, even? FC Dair is an excellent punish option, and being a character with less options than most, I feel we must abuse what we have.

I'll try to upload some matches I've had in tournament; I've hit it quite a few times off of reads alone.

More like Jab Jab Grab but they still have enough time to act out of it so yeah.
at low % Grab > Dair cancel works

Grab release to Dair? Or a certain throw to dair?

 

[Zionaze]

Grab release to Dair? Or a certain throw to dair?

yeah D-throw to Dair

 

[Foster J.]

Even ZeRo has some things to say about

 

[Ffamran]

@ Foster J. , do you mind if I add this to the Good Falco videos? thread?

I really need to have that thread's title changed... Also, I might want to quote it over to the competitive discussion to see what others think.

 

[Foster J.]

@ Foster J. , do you mind if I add this to the Good Falco videos? thread?

I really need to have that thread's title changed... Also, I might want to quote it over to the competitive discussion to see what others think.

I don't see why not, it's not my footage.

 

[The Big Wang Theory]

I've noticed recently that his Uthrow into Uair can combo and kill at certain percents on some characters (Bowser Jr. and R.O.B. in my experience).

Does anybody have any more info on this? I've never seen this mentioned in this board, so.

 

[Zionaze]

I've noticed recently that his Uthrow into Uair can combo and kill at certain percents on some characters (Bowser Jr. and R.O.B. in my experience).

Does anybody have any more info on this? I've never seen this mentioned in this board, so.

Falco borrowed some moves in smash 4. He got Wolfs Backair, Melee Fox's U-throw > Uair.
using the U-throw string on Halberd is almost an instant kill at like 60%

 

[Shaya]

If you use any other throw bar Up-throw (except in stage position situations), you've been doing it terribly wrong.

Up Throw Up-Air true combos at kill percent due to throw-laser + rage mechanics.

 

[The Big Wang Theory]

I've been finding a lot of success with Falco's grab game in general, though. All of them have been really useful to me, either for positioning (Fthrow/Bthrow) or comboing (Uthrow/Dthrow).

Not to mention silly kills with Bthrow when I'm backed up against the ledge. They're stupidly satisfying.

 

[Ffamran]

If you use any other throw bar Up-throw (except in stage position situations), you've been doing it terribly wrong.

Up Throw Up-Air true combos at kill percent due to throw-laser + rage mechanics.

What about F-throw to Falco Phantasm at low percents and D-throw to Dash Attack, Up Smash, Utilt, Nair, or Fair or whatever at low percents and dependent on characters? And there's B-throw which more or less is a kill throw or get someone off stage or elsewhere throw.

 

[Shaya]

What about F-throw to Falco Phantasm at low percents and D-throw to Dash Attack, Up Smash, Utilt, Nair, or Fair or whatever at low percents and dependent on characters? And there's B-throw which more or less is a kill throw or get someone off stage or elsewhere throw.

No (double aerials and/or into tilts) and "except in stage position situations"

 

[ilikcereal101]

So any way to reliably land Falcos dair?

 

[Ffamran]

Not that I'm aware of. Falco doesn't have ROB's ridiculous Dair hitbox, Zelda's good sour-spot Dair - it will do a weak meteor -, Captain Falcon's speed to catch up, Ganondorf's raw power - his Dair will meteor from 0%. It's mostly read dependent.

 

[A2ZOMG]

D-air is fine when you read a low recovery. Or you can do what I've been experimenting with and learn the spacing for autocanceled D-air (requires fullhop height).

Seriously guys, autocanceled D-air is maaaaad underrated. Especially when in juggle situations, you can use the massive lingering hitbox to cover options, and this can actually hit most characters on the ground aside from the shortest ones. If they actually get hit by the end of the move, you can get legitimate combos from it.

 

[Ffamran]

I asked around, @ A2ZOMG . Have fun using full hop Dairs, everyone.

Brief testing with fullhop dair suggests it sets up grabs at 0-mid% against a grounded opponent, might have different applications if it hits them in the air idk

I really want to believe something like fh dair>jc sideB>bair would work at kill percent but I couldn't get it to combo ;_;

EDIT: I guess fh dair>jc sideB>bair doesn't combo but if they miss the tech after dair it can work at certain percents

fh dair>uthrow>uair(>nair/bair) is what I was mostly looking at (~40%), which does seem to work at lower percents even if they're in the air when hit with dair, so long as they aren't far off the ground. If you hit them higher up I don't think there are followups available.

@ Ffamran
Things with fh dair I've found:

fh dair>jab
fh dair>ftilt
fh dair>dsmash (23%; at 40% on Ike)
fh dair>grab>stuff (at 0~60%; until it starts launching)
fh dair>dtilt>RAR bair (30% damage; at 60% on Ike)
fh dair>jc sideB>bair (28%; at ~100% on Ike, if they don't tech the dair)
fh dair trip>coffee break>whatever your heart desires (0~60%; until it starts launching)

 

[ArhyLis]

Mixing up normal Dairs and FastFalling Dairs can do some great mind games. Nothing's more satisfying than running offstage and FFDairing someone deep in the blast zone.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I asked around, @ A2ZOMG . Have fun using full hop Dairs, everyone.

I would recommend also learning to autocancel D-air in situations outside of fullhops. I believe for instance it is applicable out of Ledge Jump, and furthermore there's also some platform interactions that I haven't covered such as buffering fullhop D-air on Battlefield's lower platforms and other things. Just in general knowing situations in which you can autocancel D-air gives you an option that can help cover options as you land.

 

[MoosyDoosy]

D-air is fine when you read a low recovery. Or you can do what I've been experimenting with and learn the spacing for autocanceled D-air (requires fullhop height).

Seriously guys, autocanceled D-air is maaaaad underrated. Especially when in juggle situations, you can use the massive lingering hitbox to cover options, and this can actually hit most characters on the ground aside from the shortest ones. If they actually get hit by the end of the move, you can get legitimate combos from it.

Wait, just as a clarification. You are talking about the canceled Dair with the fastfall yes? Or is this something else I'm not aware of?

 

[Ffamran]

Full hopped Dair. So, you're hitting with the sour-spot that doesn't meteor.

 

[Macchiato]

3rd/59
http://challonge.com/ShutUpFoo
Used

 

[Shaya]

Used Falco over the weekend against (got 2nd; forfeiting finals).

Reflecting smashes that kills at 40% ^_^.
Definitely a solid match up. Down-B stupidly underrated as a poke in every MU.

 

[Ffamran]

Used Falco over the weekend against (got 2nd; forfeiting finals).

Reflecting smashes that kills at 40% ^_^.
Definitely a solid match up. Down-B stupidly underrated as a poke in every MU.

It's like what Shofu said, "You get too close and you get hit with that Down B every time".

I could totally see Falco saying, "Back off, mofo!", if this game was rated T or M.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Wait, just as a clarification. You are talking about the canceled Dair with the fastfall yes? Or is this something else I'm not aware of?

You don't want to fastfall when autocanceling D-air. You do this at a specific height in the air to cover options either when juggling your opponent or landing. And if they get hit at low percents by the end of the move as you get close to the ground, you can get combos.

 

[Dark Dire Wolf]

Could someone please clarify the spike potential of the DAir now? I see on the stats thread the meteor hit is at 259%, isn't that incredibly weak compared to Brawl or am I interpreting this wrong (don't have the game at the moment to check myself, unfortunately).

 

[Ffamran]

Could someone please clarify the spike potential of the DAir now? I see on the stats thread the meteor hit is at 259%, isn't that incredibly weak compared to Brawl or am I interpreting this wrong (don't have the game at the moment to check myself, unfortunately).

That? Oh, the late hit is when it doesn't meteor/spike at all. Meteoring and spiking are interchangeable, but I use meteor more because, er..., I think I just got used to it. I think Brawl had meteors smashes which were spikes that you could meteor cancel and get out of except for Wolf who had a 60 frame delay to do anything... Spikes were you get hit with a spike, then you're done unless your recovery is godlike or it was early in the game. Anyway, I digress.

The late hit kills at 259% and the late hit doesn't spike at all. The first few frames of Dair will meteor, but at 249%, if you use it on the stage, it will spike and bounce the opponent and kill them if they don't tech. Sorry about that, I'm still working on the thread and I'll definitely need to explain certain things.

At 249%, if Dair connects, it will probably be an instant stock. I don't know how I would test an "inescapable spike" since I only have a 3DS.

 

[Snackss]

How do you get back on-stage as Falco? Never seen a character people disrespect so much on recovery, but at least he has enough jump height and options to make it to the ledge. Then what? Does he have any move to clear the ledge?

And how does Falco even work in this game? Neutral air seems decently safe, his tilts are sort of strong but not very well-ranged. His dash attack got nerfed far too hard to be a viable approach or even punish sometimes. Feels like you have to play pretty slow with pokes and get mixups off of throws and and aerials.

 

[Ayscee]

Used Falco over the weekend against (got 2nd; forfeiting finals).

Reflecting smashes that kills at 40% ^_^.
Definitely a solid match up. Down-B stupidly underrated as a poke in every MU.

Shaya from australia?

 

[David Galanos]

Hi, can any falco mains play me today? thanks

nnid: Apost1e

 

[Ffamran]

Hi, can any falco mains play me today? thanks

nnid: Apost1e

We have this thread for sharing NNIDs and FCs: http://smashboards.com/threads/anyone-want-to-exchange-nnids-or-friend-codes.386513/.

 

[MoosyDoosy]

How do you get back on-stage as Falco? Never seen a character people disrespect so much on recovery, but at least he has enough jump height and options to make it to the ledge. Then what? Does he have any move to clear the ledge?

And how does Falco even work in this game? Neutral air seems decently safe, his tilts are sort of strong but not very well-ranged. His dash attack got nerfed far too hard to be a viable approach or even punish sometimes. Feels like you have to play pretty slow with pokes and get mixups off of throws and and aerials.

Yeah, his game revolves around pokes. Ftilt, Jab, Utilt, Dthrow -> Dash attack, Uthrow -> Uair, Uair, Bair and stuff like that. Reflector can be used as a nice anti-air approach. Unlike Fox who creates openings, Falco revolves around finding and exploiting openings. I find Nair unreliable against smaller characters as it doesn't drag the opponent with it like Fair does and they can escape from it. Oh yeah, RAR FF Bair is pretty safe so long as your spacing is good although I like to keep it fresh as a nice kill option because its sweetspot kills super early.

In terms of kill options, you're going to have to rely on good prediction. Fsmash is powerful as always, Bair can kill super early, perfect pivot Dsmash exploits the longer range of the back leg, Fair kills early but you need good prediction.

Then there are tricks like Dair cancel but those also rely on prediction although it can open up combos like nothing else.

This is just a super brief summary, and we're obviously still trying to find stuff.