Q&A Falco, King of the Birds: Game Play Discussion

[Zionaze]

I just had a match with my friend and something... odd happens at 1:50. I was able to spam Jab1 over and over and my friend couldn't escape. I attempted it again at 2:00 and yet again my friend could not escape.

Because Jab1 does 3 damage per hit i racked up % from 70 to 130 super quickly.
The only problem is I cannot recreate this scenario in training so I'm not entirely sure if it only works on heavy characters like
i was doing something like

If anyone can figure out how to do this consistently that'l be very helpful and possibly a great asset for falco that could possibly be of use in the future. Thanks

 

[Foster J.]

I think WHY he couldn't escape was because he kept getting knocked upwards, and thus had some landing lag, as we saw the impact of him constantly landing, that must have been hard to do though.

 

[Zionaze]

I think WHY he couldn't escape was because he kept getting knocked upwards, and thus had some landing lag, as we saw the impact of him constantly landing, that must have been hard to do though.

the part i wanted to know was how i used Jab1 only and not Jab 1 2

 

[Foster J.]

the part i wanted to know was how i used Jab1 only and not Jab 1 2

3DS mystery mate, 3DS mystery

 

[Zionaze]

3DS mystery mate, 3DS mystery

is there even a difference?

 

[Lizalfos]

Pressing diagonal and back from the direction in Melee caused a Jab cancel, allowing quick successive jab 1. I thought I already tried doing it, but I'm on 3ds.

I think Gannon has 1 more frame of landing lag than everyone else, so that might be part of why it worked too.

 

[Ffamran]

Pressing diagonal and back from the direction in Melee caused a Jab cancel, allowing quick successive jab 1. I thought I already tried doing it, but I'm on 3ds.

I think Gannon has 1 more frame of landing lag than everyone else, so that might be part of why it worked too.

Well, at least it isn't like Wolf having a 60 frame delay to meteor cancel from what the wiki said... One more frame for landing might not be all that bad for Ganondorf, but it's awesome for Falco.

 

[Lizalfos]

I got one frame from PM/Melee. It could be more. All I know is that in previous Smash entries Gannon had a longer landing than the norm.
Edit: They changed it in PM

 

[Foster J.]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spHWz-9F7cQ

From the http://smashboards.com/threads/frame-cancel.386639/ thread

 

[Lizalfos]

All of the cool stuff is frustratingly hard to do in this game. I swear, everything is 1 frame.

I think the guy in the video lied, it looks like you start fast falling at the apex of your jump or near close to it. That is what the footage tells me.

 

[Jay-kun]

Can Falco stickywalk? It was present in Smash4 3ds and I recently picked up Falco..don't know if I am foxtrotting or sticky walking >.<

Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es9xLTFaeJY

 

[Ffamran]

Fox-trotting, I believe, is like "chain-dashing". So, you keep inputting dash over and over. @Conda said that Falco can make use of fox-trots well because of his short dash animation. I don't really know, but here's a link to a video that describes several movement techniques in SSB4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uzv-fmiTH_M.

I think Falco might be able to stickywalk and I think everyone might be able to stickywalk, but how much use of it depends like Captain Falcon has an amazing perfect pivot distance, but others don't. I'm not really sure.

Anyway, here's another video from Conda where he mentions how Falco's fox-trot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znnK3yYXd18. It's from the second page of the Good Falco video? thread that's also stickied.

Edit: We also have a thread dedicated to movement techs in the Wii U/3DS Smash Academy section: http://smashboards.com/threads/perfect-pivot-foxtrotting-dashdancing.371139/.

 

[BJN39]

Hi Falcos! I heard activity here was pretty low, so I decided to drop by! :D

Even though I'm not a Falco player
I'll come calling often and hang out. (And invite Zeldas.)

 

[Ffamran]

Hi Falcos! I heard activity here was pretty low, so I decided to drop by! :D

Even though I'm not a Falco player
I'll come calling often and hang out. (And invite Zeldas.)

But this isn't our Social thread.

The abandoned bakery is here: http://smashboards.com/threads/falc...er-the-air-and-the-points-dont-matter.379756/.

 

[teluoborg]

But in smash 4 your character stops fast falling when you do an aerial right ? So you can FF then Dair then FF again when landing.

 

[Ffamran]

But in smash 4 your character stops fast falling when you do an aerial right ? So you can FF then Dair then FF again when landing.

I'm not sure, but I believe you will fast-fall during an aerial. I've SD'd and whiffing a lot by fast-falling certain moves. It can make Fair disconnect early if you fast-fall or input the wrong direction like away.

Anyway, for the frame cancel thing, I've managed to perform it by inputting Dair and fast-falling it immediately. So, jump, input Dair, let the stick/circle pad return to neutral, and input a fast-fall. It's a series of quick inputs which I don't want to do a lot on the 3DS lest the circle pad breaks.

 

[Zionaze]

ive noticed the strict timing on the frame cancel but its starting to become 2nd nature to perform every time i perform it.
Using it at around 50~60+% will make it so that even if you do fail, it still sends them far enough for you to recover from your endlag.

 

[ILOVESMASH]

Does falco's dair have less landing lag if you fast fall it?

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

Does falco's dair have less landing lag if you fast fall it?

Short answer: Nope.

Long answer: Not unless you pulled off that unique dair trick where, if you hit your opponent with dair the very moment you land, your endlag and landing lag both activate simultaneously allowing you to react faster than if you hit them > endlag > landing lag.

Otherwise I don't think so. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Ffamran]

Shoot, did I accidentally lock this thread? I might have been on my phone and it slipped or something.

Edit: I checked and I did. How?! I seriously don't know. Sorry, guys and girls.

 

[ILOVESMASH]

After using Falco, my biggest complaint with him is his lack of mobility. Compared to fox, falco has issues traversing the stage very quickly meaning that he can't approach nearly as nor have nearly as many followup options as fox. I usually find myself using falco phantasm alot to travel the stage very quickly, which is easily punishable.
Another issue I have is the huge amount of recovery that Falco's laser's have in comparison to Fox's, since it means you can't force the opponent to approach you nearly as well as fox. This is actually why I think falco's burst blaster is one of his best customs, as it forces a lot of characters to approach you and because of its lower recovery time, you can act of it in time and punish the foe. Only downside is that it can't gimp opponents off stage by removing there jump.

 

[Foster J.]

After using Falco, my biggest complaint with him is his lack of mobility. Compared to fox, falco has issues traversing the stage very quickly meaning that he can't approach nearly as nor have nearly as many followup options as fox. I usually find myself using falco phantasm alot to travel the stage very quickly, which is easily punishable.
Another issue I have is the huge amount of recovery that Falco's laser's have in comparison to Fox's, since it means you can't force the opponent to approach you nearly as well as fox. This is actually why I think falco's burst blaster is one of his best customs, as it forces a lot of characters to approach you and because of its lower recovery time, you can act of it in time and punish the foe. Only downside is that it can't gimp opponents off stage by removing there jump.

It's like how a lot of Falco mains has said: Falco's air game but be better, but his neutral game was butchered.
If I were you I'd look up how to B-Reversal, basically turning around mid jump using the n-special, which is the blaster in this case. It'll allow for some harassment while "retreating" or baiting. In most cases you should be able to shield slightly afterwards of landing.

But compared to Fox, IMO, Falco thrives more on following up on his grabs, or punishing, rather than making his own kill setups. So it's a passive playstyle in most cases.

I just had a match with my friend and something... odd happens at 1:50. I was able to spam Jab1 over and over and my friend couldn't escape. I attempted it again at 2:00 and yet again my friend could not escape.

Because Jab1 does 3 damage per hit i racked up % from 70 to 130 super quickly.
The only problem is I cannot recreate this scenario in training so I'm not entirely sure if it only works on heavy characters like
i was doing something like

If anyone can figure out how to do this consistently that'l be very helpful and possibly a great asset for falco that could possibly be of use in the future. Thanks

Yep, I guess we have a good idea how this works now

I tested this earlier and it works on Ganons above 50, by inputting and then in rapid succession (Just like in the 3DS video) you can potentially jab lock certain characters at certain percentages from one part of the stage to the other.
This works for as he takes a small step forward with his first jab, unlike whose 2nd jab is key to moving forward.

 

[V_x_I_D]

Yep, I guess we have a good idea how this works now

I tested this earlier and it works on Ganons above 50, by inputting and then in rapid succession (Just like in the 3DS video) you can potentially jab lock certain characters at certain percentages from one part of the stage to the other.
This works for as he takes a small step forward with his first jab, unlike whose 2nd jab is key to moving forward.

Ayyy! So this actually works???

 

[Foster J.]

Ayyy! So this actually works???

It's different from character to character, and starts a different percentages based on the weight / fall speed of it. But yes it works against Ganon at least!

 

[Snipnigth]

I’m having big problems deciding whether to stay Falco or not, i mean i like the challenge, but i fell that Falco is just missing something, and i wanted to ask you guys what you think, because i really like Falco, but sometimes i just get my ass kicked repeatedly online and offline and its frustrating.

I feel he has no safe landing aside from side b and reflector, nair seems too wif sometimes and has quite a bit of lagg giving opponent enough time to grab if he shields, reflector has more lag but at least has more range.

I feel he is too slow, sometimes i can’t even get a punish going because his dashing speed is so slow, I’m trying to use phantasm more for punishes but it’s hard to time with the starting lagg and i usually wif it a lot because it doesn’t have a hitbox the entire way like fox's.

I usually just use laser when my opponent is really far away, but the distance its tricky because the laser doesn’t travel the entire stage so if you are to close, your opponent will most likely be able to punish, and if are using it to far away the lasers won’t reach.

Usually i have a hard time vs shiek's, zss, mario and little mac, and i personally have a really hard time getting the kills after I’ve racquet up a lot of %.

So what can you tell me to help? Does Falco really have potential? or is he good, but missing something to be viable?

 

[Cyro]

For those of you that don't know, Falco can footstool out of a F-air. You have to space it correctly though, I've gotten it on many people and can confirm it as a legit combo.

 

[Gamegenie222]

I will try to be in here more for the bird cause I finally have a Wii U and the game but no GC adapter or LAN adapter so i'm using classic controller pro ATM and I won't be at full strength till then and if GG XRD and PM don't take up all of my time.

 

[Ffamran]

I will try to be in here more for the bird cause I finally have a Wii U and the game but no GC adapter or LAN adapter so i'm using classic controller pro ATM and I won't be at full strength till then and if GG XRD and PM don't take up all of my time.

Have you tried using the Hori Battle Pad? It's shaped like a GCN controller, but it's basically a Wii U Classic Pro Controller. I think it's only 29.99 USD. Sure, it's not a GCN controller, but if you're desperate to practice with a pseudo-GCN controller and have money to spare go ahead. I don't know of it's wired or not. Still, if you could wire it or the Classic Pro controller, then there shouldn't be a problem at tournaments.

Here's a review from a user on Smashboards: http://smashboards.com/threads/a-be...ori-battle-pad-for-wii-u-review.373794/unread.

 

[Gamegenie222]

No i haven't tried it yet and don't have spare funds after paying for the wii u and bills but I'll look into it although I'm very picky for when it comes to 3rd party controllers outside of arcade sticks.

 

[Ffamran]

If you're just playing to have fun and stuff, then the Hori Battle Pad would be okay, but if you're going to tournaments and playing purely for competition, then I'd say save for the GCN adapter and/or controller sincesince I don't think the Classic Pro and the Battle Pad are allowed in some tournaments.

 

[Gamegenie222]

I'm more a little bit of both for this game but mainly for the latter of competition as I am no stranger to it. I do appreciate the controller drop though I need to look into it more.

 

[Snipnigth]

It's like how a lot of Falco mains has said: Falco's air game but be better, but his neutral game was butchered.
If I were you I'd look up how to B-Reversal, basically turning around mid jump using the n-special, which is the blaster in this case. It'll allow for some harassment while "retreating" or baiting. In most cases you should be able to shield slightly afterwards of landing.

But compared to Fox, IMO, Falco thrives more on following up on his grabs, or punishing, rather than making his own kill setups. So it's a passive playstyle in most cases.

I agree b reversal with falco is good but the shot wont even hit unless enemy jumps or shoot as you touch the ground, it still takes a long time to recover i get punished most of the time i use it, specialy agains fast ppl like shiek , zss or diddy. I usually try use the blaster when they are offstage to try and mess up his recovery a little or at the other side of the stage just to stack up some damage

I agree that falco is more pasive and defensive than fox, but even if you play like that its kinda hard to get the punishes going, a lot good players fair and then move back before hitting the ground, they recover before i am able to reach and grab or dash atack, its really frustrating sometimes, specially agains shieks or kirbys, dont know how to counter this, pefect shilding is the only thing i can think of.

I also feel he should get some buff like a little more grab range (his is so short) and a jab combo and up smash that opponent cant DI, its really annoying when other players can just di so easily out of his jabs or when the second hit of his upsmash misses....and then you look at diddy with a similar jab combo and multi hit up smash and every hit lands....why? Poor bird

 

[Saturn_]

I used to main Falco back in the day and I never questioned liking him better than Fox. When I read that m2k picked Falco as the best character in Melee I found it very vindicating. I'm playing him in Smash4 now, though, and he seems so sluggish and limited. Playing Fox feels like a blast, and Fox's nair approach is so simple and basic that getting in with Falco seems like a chore by comparison. I'm new to Smash4; please save me from myself and give me a few reasons why I should main him over Fox, because I'm really not seeing any. Fox even has smaller hurtboxes! Damn...

 

[Twizman]

Falco imo should be played more defensively than going 'in'. Watch your opponents movements and punish. Falco is very fun to play because of the feel of the character. His tilts and grab game are excellent. Edgeguarding is a blast with fair and bair stage spikes! Bair is beautiful and sweetspot comes out frame 4. Down smash is a good punish out of shield, and against rollers.

 

[whoknowswhat]

Does dthrow have jab lock follow up possibilities? I can't tell if they can tech or not because I don't have the time to test it on humans right now, but if it really is a jab lock they shouldn't. On mostly heavy characters

dthrow > land > ftilt > ftilt > ftilt > getup > Usmash

I don't know if it's been found or I'm wrong or something.

Sorry if my words just come out scrambled. I'm really tired.

 

[andimidna]

So I don't really know where to put this but after watching Izaw's video- if
You get that dair cancel thing it looks like it has a lot of hitstun. And eventually sends opponents in the air. I don't play falco so I probably couldn't pull this off but why not follow up the dair with a footstool? He cancels his lag and his vertical movement is so fast and his dair creates so much hitstun... Couldn't he just dair footstool dair footstool until maybe the character gets hit away far enough from the dair that they have time to react? The start up May be difficult and it may not last forever, but wouldn't that make sense to be an infinite?
Also what happens if you footstool a character in hitstun before the percent range that they get sent off?

I'm probably saying something stupid cause idk the character at all but in my head it seems like this would work...
No?

 

[Snipnigth]

So I don't really know where to put this but after watching Izaw's video- if
You get that dair cancel thing it looks like it has a lot of hitstun. And eventually sends opponents in the air. I don't play falco so I probably couldn't pull this off but why not follow up the dair with a footstool? He cancels his lag and his vertical movement is so fast and his dair creates so much hitstun... Couldn't he just dair footstool dair footstool until maybe the character gets hit away far enough from the dair that they have time to react? The start up May be difficult and it may not last forever, but wouldn't that make sense to be an infinite?
Also what happens if you footstool a character in hitstun before the percent range that they get sent off?

I'm probably saying something stupid cause idk the character at all but in my head it seems like this would work...
No?

Sounds posible but extremele dificult, just pulling off the dair cancel in the heat of battle is really hard and risky.

 

[Sodo]

I'm looking into Falco, mainly because my group of friends have come to the consensus that he's terrible. They main Diddy, Sheik, etc. I want to show them that every character can be good. I've done some research and found that Falco's most effective playstyle revolves around punishes, is that correct? He seems to have a good grab game as well.

I guess my question is what should I start to do in order to get better with him? I've heard playing with him requires a lot of technical skill, as was the case in past iterations of the character. However, I think he has a lot of untapped potential.

 

[Snipnigth]

I'm looking into Falco, mainly because my group of friends have come to the consensus that he's terrible. They main Diddy, Sheik, etc. I want to show them that every character can be good. I've done some research and found that Falco's most effective playstyle revolves around punishes, is that correct? He seems to have a good grab game as well.

I guess my question is what should I start to do in order to get better with him? I've heard playing with him requires a lot of technical skill, as was the case in past iterations of the character. However, I think he has a lot of untapped potential.

i have been having doubts on Falco been good, but after i analyze my matches i realized its not falco the problem is me, he does have some obvious weaknesses, almost all his moves have a lot of ending lagg, low priority and a lot of souerspots, but he haves really good follow ups and combos, and his bair is amazing you need to practice shot hop into bair and pivot shorthop into bair, this is really good because it will land with no lag even if you fast fall, and it good to counter enemies that want to go agresive on you with a shorthop, up air is also good for this.

He is more of a defensive punish character yes and he has really good grab game since he can combo out of up throw and d throw, and also he can kill with up throw and bthrow but the laser must hit, the only problem with is grab game is that his grab is reallt short and his movement speed dosent help that much, running away and the doing a pivot grab is a good option with falco too.

learning to use his side b to spike and punish is also a good tool, sometimes you enemy is to far away and you wont be able to punish its side b can sometimes get there in time and it can be posibly comboes with up or b air, just dont spam the move.

His tilts are amazing too, up tilt into up tilt can stack up to 30-40% in many characters and can be followed up/comboed with a back air or any other aerial, down tilt can kill at 120-140% if you hit it with the sweetsport with is closest to falcos body and its great for spacing and follow ups, and its ftilt is great for spacing and punishing since is comes out fast and does a nice 9%.

the thing with falco is that you must be sure that the move will hit, cuz most of his moves have descent amount of ending lag

 

[Sodo]

-original post-

Thanks for the info. Never knew that Sideb could spike, that's definitely a useful gimmick in his arsenal. I have played about 20 FG matches with him and lost all but three or four. He's so slow and the lag on his moves is so bad, it's really about how you follow up your grabs because if you miss you're toast. But I'm playing with a solo Wiimote (I know it's absurd), so Utilt is hard to do. I like Dtilt a lot, it's a great spacing tool that he desperately needs in his current state.