***Falco is third in the new tier list!***

[8AngeL8]

Interesting, I've never seen a bowser played well enough to consider it a 45:55 matchup, do you have some vids?

 

[Mith_]

I've seen Bowser in action vs Falco. Def not 55:45 but he doesn't get THAT *****.

 

[XxBlackxX]

@angel, while i sorta agree with everything you're saying, it seems like you overrate the other characters and severely underrate falco.

first, the CG is still there, and no amount of time can change that (until someone finds the the dthrow is techable ). sure, players have gotten better at avoiding the grab, but one mistake=~50% still stands. it's still a great tool. and the spiking, even if someone could tech it 100% of the time, they would still only have a 50% rate of survival AT MOST. second, his lasers are still great, and arguably the best projectile in the game.

as for your opinion of the IC's, i would agree. IC's have potential. a lot of potential.

but i DEFINITELY, STRONGLY disagree with your overrating of wolf. WOLF IS NOT EVEN CLOSE TO THAT GOOD. yes i said it. flame away wolf mains, but even so you will be forced to admit sooner or later that he will NOT be above falco. just....no. from what i've seen from the wolf discussion thread, the bair is GROSSLY overrated here on the falco boards...i mean....unpunishable? seriously? i would agree that his reflector is good and his recovery, while not "great", gets the job done. however, other than an overrated bair, what else does he have? a lackluster projectile and pretty good smashes.

EDIT: also, i can understand marth going higher, because of his matchups. however, ROB and GnW really have no place left to go after the last tier list but down.
i'll address my opinion on both of them right now, since i don't play either and may be wrong, do correct me if you know something i don't.

first, ROB-ROB is good, ROB is great. but much like OS said back in may, ROB is like the jack of all trades and a master of....none, unfortunately. ROB has a good recovery, ROB can camp, ROB has a beastly Dsmash, ROB has a good offstage game but what he has in each of those areas is better-ed by other characters, and imo, with the exception on projectiles, there's really nothing ROB can do that MK can't. because of this, ROB doesn't have a whole lot of representation. he is still good, but he really has no where to go but down after the last tier list, which he did.

as for GnW, he is also a great character....with some flaws. he is easy to pick up and win all your little 20-man local scrub tournies, but to win with GnW at a top level is DIFFICULT. he is imo one of the harder characters in the game to be unpredictable with, and despite having nice priority and great aerials, all of his attacks are telegraphed, making it easier for the opponent to avoid moves and/or punish. GnW suffers from the same fundamental problem as ROB, little to no representation, little to no metagame advancement.



that's just my take on those two characters.

 

[8AngeL8]

I don't see how you can say that Falco's CG will always be there and be effective, but ROB and GW are on their way down. I think they all three fall into the category of really good, yet less effective as time goes on.

As for Wolf, what he has is SPACING. Between the reflector, the bair, his Fsmash, his Dsmash, his blaster, and the ability to just Side-b away, Wolf is fantastic at keeping opponents at arm's length. By mixing and matching his moves to suit his opponent, he can almost always find a way to space himself to maximize his own damage and minimize his enemy's.

 

[XxBlackxX]

I don't see how you can say that Falco's CG will always be there and be effective, but ROB and GW are on their way down. I think they all three fall into the category of really good, yet less effective as time goes on.

As for Wolf, what he has is SPACING. Between the reflector, the bair, his Fsmash, his Dsmash, his blaster, and the ability to just Side-b away, Wolf is fantastic at keeping opponents at arm's length. By mixing and matching his moves to suit his opponent, he can almost always find a way to space himself to maximize his own damage and minimize his enemy's.

how isn't the CG still there and effective? okay, so we lose the chance to 0-death some characters that had horrible matchups against falco anyway, and even then they only have a 50% of surviving. i can see what your saying about people getting better at avoiding grabs, but one mistake=~50% still stands. unless you are snake and you blow yourself up, i don't see how it would be avoided unless of course, you make no mistakes.

 

[8AngeL8]

I'm not saying it's not effective, it's just that you said the grab is still effective, while Rob and GW aren't anymore.

 

[Fabian the Fastman]

Fox has a lot of ups and downs, high ups and low downs. Lets not even mention pikachu. Fox destroys snake, the supposed 2nd on the tier list, but is eaten alive by MK's and ZSS's just to name a random few. Honestly Fox can take on most of the top tiers. I love fighting snakes, ROB's, D3s and G&Ws. All of those match ups are atleast 50:50 or better for fox from my personal experience. Marth is close to 50:50 but may be more in his favor, but good foxes can easily take on marths.

this post made my day

 

[XxBlackxX]

I'm not saying it's not effective, it's just that you said the grab is still effective, while Rob and GW aren't anymore.

not that they aren't anymore, but they had their best position in the last tier list and only way they could go in this one is down. which they did. also, poor representation.

 

[8AngeL8]

Well, I guess this is why there will never be a universally accepted tier list. Different regions and different styles of play generate differing opinions.

 

[XxBlackxX]

Well, I guess this is why there will never be a universally accepted tier list. Different regions and different styles of play generate differing opinions.

yeah i guess. just like how a lot of matchups are still controversial. i've heard some **** good reasons for why snake has a slight advantage over falco, especially if he blows himself up to 40%. really though, the player that is more skilled/knows more on the matchup will win imo.
i pretty much agree with the tier list on SS rank-B rank. (with a few exceptions, such as olimar higher) and i don't know enough about most lower tiers to comment on them. (lol call me a tier ***** )

 

[8AngeL8]

You think YOU'RE a tier *****? My most played characters are MK, Snake and Falco. This new tier list has made me into the biggest tier ***** it's possible to be

Of course, I AM a tier *****, but at least I used to be able to say one of my characters was only 5th best...

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I'm close to that, but one step lower. I use Snake, Falco and really leaning towards DDD.

With Snake I'll blow people up with my Exploding Pineapple Grenades. A substitute for the Ice Climbers (Nana and Popo?) are the ChaingGrabbers (Falco and DDD).

 

[Blad01]

You think YOU'RE a tier *****? My most played characters are MK, Snake and Falco. This new tier list has made me into the biggest tier ***** it's possible to be

Of course, I AM a tier *****, but at least I used to be able to say one of my characters was only 5th best...

Angel, you're really a tier *****

I don't understand why you play MK, he's so... MK. Ugly, boring to watch

But at least you use falco, thus you're amazing.

 

[StarHawk_30]

Falcos place on the new tier list seems fair, Ian the only two characters that are better than falco are meta knight and snake( I hate them both )

 

[Marcbri]

I still don't see him being third, DDD is better IMO, and G&W too. then falco is at the same level as marth and diddy

 

[8AngeL8]

I play MK because he's fun to OCCASIONALLY play. I like the feeling of speed and power, but I could never main him, he doesn't have enough variety. Plus, he can get you out of some sticky counterpicks, so it's handy to have him at a playable level.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I play MK because he's fun to OCCASIONALLY play. I like the feeling of speed and power, but I could never main him, he doesn't have enough variety. Plus, he can get you out of some sticky counterpicks, so it's handy to have him at a playable level.

Playable level? Is that even possible. All one need do is spam Mach Tornado, Dsmash, UpB and you practically win against all of MKs good match ups.

 

[8AngeL8]

Haha, I assume you're pro-ban?

He's not the auto-win that a lot of people assume, though he is certainly the best in the game. This isn't the place to start that debate up again, though, this thread already has ENOUGH controversy

 

[MyCurse4Life]

This is Wild!