Falco is the 2nd best character

[XxBlackxX]

Fox is 45/55 Falco's Favor >.>

no.....im sure it was agreed at least 60:40 falco's favor, no?

 

[Conviction]

6/4? well I knew it was some where near that.

 

[Light_13]

I honestly think Fox should be close to marth. Fox has rapesauce.


And ICs cant grab you in the air.....remember this well


Now if your one of those who will see the oponent waiting for the arial holding there shield up and surprisingly STILL ARIAL,Ics can get hard. Not to mention Phantasm splits the Ice climbers up.

 

[XxBlackxX]

I honestly think Fox should be close to marth. Fox has rapesauce.


And ICs cant grab you in the air.....remember this well


Now if your one of those who will see the oponent waiting for the arial holding there shield up and surprisingly STILL ARIAL,Ics can get hard. Not to mention Phantasm splits the Ice climbers up.

imo fox is a character that is underrated and actually has a lot of potential...but he will NEVER belong in the same tier with marth for example, because of how much he gets ***** in serveral matchups. i honestly think that any competent pika vs. any competent fox of relatively the same skil level=win for the pika realllyyyy hurts fox's chances of high tier. not to mention ZSS and shiek.

 

[Vlade]

Fox's match-ups (especially against pika) just stop him from moving up anywhere near marth. Otherwise he is still a pretty good character, it's only his match-ups which are preventing him from unlocking full potential in the tier list.

 

[NJzFinest]

...? @ This Fox stuff

Falco ***** Fox.
And yes, Fox is underrated. There needs to be more good people using Fox though, as of now, it's mostly random people who think Fox has 0 to high damage combos and play 90% of there matches online.

 

[Hyo]

Nah.. that ain't Falco.

pfft. I just had to.

But seriously it ain't.
His recovery is just too bad u_u.

 

[Crackle]

About the fox: What happened to "Gamble", I saw him at Axis a long while back and he looked like he was getting somewhere. Or maybe his thuggish looks just gave me the impression of that...

About Falco: I think he's going to become a noob phenomenon like MK was simply because of all the misinterpretations and things going on. Ankoku's list, the new tier list, and this thread are reason enough for any guy to switch their main to Falco. Thankfully, Falco is a bit harder to learn than MK is, effectively.

But will Falco ever get THAT big for tournament play? I mean there's a learning curve to him, sure, but when its done it seems pretty **** done....save for some random tricks like learning to use bair/dair more effectively.

I'm pretty sure Falco's at his peak in the tier list right now, by the time June comes along and the new tier list is on, he'll have been figured out in general. His finisher setups get too predictable somewhere during round 2 in tournament matches.

Side Note: Falco's matches with Snakes are hilarious, I mean how **** do you have to get to make a character willingly blow themself up to avoid your legs of doom?

 

[XxBlackxX]

i kinda agree. falco ain't going any higher than 3rd imo, but he won't drop any lower than 4th unless something drastic happens.

 

[Nyjin]

You all are dumb and should shoot yourselves.

But seriously, Falco 3rd.

ICs and Kirby DO **** Falco. Just play a decent Kirby/IC's to find out. It's harder to camp like a ***** than it sounds (As weird/nooby as that may sound...)

 

[NJzFinest]

Nyjin, what a terrible post lol. It doesn't really matter how "hard" it is, the simple fact that if it's done and it works is enough. ****, isn't ICs' infinites harder then they sound? >_>

Thankfully, Falco is a bit harder to learn than MK is, effectively.

But will Falco ever get THAT big for tournament play? I mean there's a learning curve to him, sure, but when its done it seems pretty **** done....save for some random tricks like learning to use bair/dair more effectively.

Right now, I think Brawl is following Melee in a few ways. Sheik used to be on top because she was much easier to use and no one could even touch her at the current metagame. Spaceys, especially Falco, had a much harder learning curve and people just didn't want to bother at the time. I'm pretty sure more will eventually pick up Brawl Falco as time goes on. It took awhile for Melee Falco to rise into Top Tier since his only tech known to others used to be like, laser to smash xD.

 

[Blistering Speed]

I agree with M2K actually. I think Falco has better matchups. Ex. characters such as DK, Fox, and Sheik aren't apparently bad characters to use on Snake, whereas Falco demolishes those matchups.

Erm sorry, just picked this out, are you high, out of all the characters Falco beats harder then Snake, you pick Shiek? Shiek has the advantage on Falco.

Also, good luck with camping Kirby, unless you press down on the control stick...

And laser F Tilt works wonders? Wow, you're right, Falco beats Kirby, he can just camp and laser F Tilt -_-

 

[Crackle]

@Njzfinest

IC's definitely take Falco out of his normal gameplay style. He can't laser and drop into a grab, nor airdodge into a grab, nor any of all those other tricks Falco users find out to try and pull in a grab on their opponent. All of those moves become self-destructive against IC's. Asides from that, Iceblocks when timed right can destroy the shorthopping lasers Falco throws out...unless the Falco down-b's in which case he needs to be on his toes with the timing every time.

Asides from that, the KO's Falco try to pull out of his *** don't work too well either. If he gets nana apart, sure he has a chance to gimp, but otherwise it's more than likely that he won't come close to IC's and get that KO necessary because his laser -> usmash might just hit nana and fail.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I agree with M2K actually. I think Falco has better matchups. Ex. characters such as DK, Fox, and Sheik aren't apparently bad characters to use on Snake, whereas Falco demolishes those matchups. Falco's bad matchups only lie in the higher tiers, yet he still has the advantage in almost all of them.

G&W, Kirby and Marth aren't bad choices vs Falco, whereas Snake beats them. The difference is that these characters are better and more common than DK, Fox or Sheik ...
Snakes match-up's are better but not by much. Falco being #3 looks perfect to me. Imo he has no worse match-up than 45/55 in opponents favour but so does Snake.

@Njzfinest

IC's definitely take Falco out of his normal gameplay style. He can't laser and drop into a grab, nor airdodge into a grab, nor any of all those other tricks Falco users find out to try and pull in a grab on their opponent. All of those moves become self-destructive against IC's. Asides from that, Iceblocks when timed right can destroy the shorthopping lasers Falco throws out...unless the Falco down-b's in which case he needs to be on his toes with the timing every time.

Asides from that, the KO's Falco try to pull out of his *** don't work too well either. If he gets nana apart, sure he has a chance to gimp, but otherwise it's more than likely that he won't come close to IC's and get that KO necessary because his laser -> usmash might just hit nana and fail.

This isn't Falcos "normal gameplay style." His normal gameplay is SHL all day long until the opponent comes close and then either run or phantasm away and repeat the process until the very end. Try to beat that with IC grabs? Forget it!

 

[M@v]

^ a misconception is that Falco destroys fox. The matchup is 55:45 Falco(check the discussion), no worse than 4:6 falco. But back on topic.

Kirby, Marth,G&W, and MK are Falco's worst matchups imo. Snake isnt bad for any of the spacies, DDD gets slaughtered by Falco, And doesnt Falco beat diddy?

 

[NJzFinest]

Shiek has the advantage on Falco.

I stopped reading your post after you said that.

Me and Ankoku already ranted on the Sheik forums about that matchup.
I guess I can see why he can't stand that forum anymore.

He can't laser and drop into a grab, nor airdodge into a grab, nor any of all those other tricks Falco users find out to try and pull in a grab on their opponent.

People actually do that....? *facepalm*

All of those moves become self-destructive against IC's. Asides from that, Iceblocks when timed right can destroy the shorthopping lasers Falco throws out...unless the Falco down-b's in which case he needs to be on his toes with the timing every time.

So you're basically saying, if the ICs have good timing they'll be able to beat lasers, but if the Falco has good timing too, that won't even matter. I like the effort people are putting into there posts here lol. *doublefacepalm*

Asides from that, the KO's Falco try to pull out of his *** don't work too well either. If he gets nana apart, sure he has a chance to gimp, but otherwise it's more than likely that he won't come close to IC's and get that KO necessary because his laser -> usmash might just hit nana and fail.

Laser -> usmash isn't a combo and shouldn't work on anybody. If you camp like no tomorrow, tilts and aerials will eventually kill if don't mindgame into a smash. Imagine how the IC player feels for the fact he has to land a grab, on a extremely hard to grab character, in order to do... anything.

G&W, Kirby and Marth aren't bad choices vs Falco, whereas Snake beats them. The difference is that these characters are better and more common than DK, Fox or Sheik ...

Pretty sure DK is more common then Kirby.
Anyways, I used to think GW and Marth were great against Falco, but now I find them to be favorable matchups after playing Kirkq alot. Seriously, laser to spaced ftilt is a god send. Yes, it's too moves, but ****ing Snake players spam walk + Ftilt; this is Barwl guys! It breaks GW's bair approach and it's so safe on his shield. I know Marth can't be CGed at all, but I think downthrow DACUS works just fine. Also Marth has nothing against spam, Falco is always forcing the approach and should have control most of the match.

Play gayer guys and don't mess up.

 

[Blistering Speed]

I stopped reading your post after you said that.

Me and Ankoku already ranted on the Sheik forums about that matchup.
I guess I can see why he can't stand that forum anymore.

The whole elitist jerk mentality is getting old. Provide reasons for opinions besides occasional sentences on one facet of a matchup or don't post at all. Show me these rants and I'll gladly disprove any prior notions you have, otherwise your haughty, misguided supremacy isn't going to convince anyone.

Ankoku, in his own thread has the matchup as 55 : 45 in Shiek's favour, smooth move.

And for the record, it was because of a select few extremely stupid posters like Flamingo that Ankoku left, hence his sign off of 'Enjoy Flamigo'.

 

[NJzFinest]

The whole elitist jerk mentality is getting old. Provide reasons for opinions besides occasional sentences on one facet of a matchup or don't post at all. Show me these rants and I'll gladly disprove any prior notions you have, otherwise your haughty, misguided supremacy isn't going to convince anyone.

"already ranted on the Sheik forums about that matchup." =/= what you just said.
Search through my posts in the Sheik forums.

Ankoku, in his own thread has the matchup as 55 : 45 in Shiek's favour, smooth move.

I was already aware of this awhile ago. In his matchup thread, he goes with the favor of the majority of people who post what they think, and they just happen to be mostly morons; smooth criminal.

And for the record, it was because of a select few extremely stupid posters like Flamingo that Ankoku left, hence his sign off of 'Enjoy Flamigo'.

Back when I was active on the Sheik forums, he literally said "I can't take the people on this forum anymore". At the time, there was no flamigo in the forum.

 

[Blistering Speed]

"already ranted on the Sheik forums about that matchup." =/= what you just said.
Search through my posts in the Sheik forums.

I was already aware of this awhile ago. In his matchup thread, he goes with the favor of the majority of people who post what they think, and they just happen to be mostly morons; smooth criminal.

Back when I was active on the Sheik forums, he literally said "I can't take the people on this forum anymore". At the time, there was no flamigo in the forum.

I'll edit this post when I look through the matchup thread and find your posts.

I wasn't aware of that comment, the main problem with the Shiek board's has always seemed a select few stupid people, it's evident when if you look at the board right now. There is still a productive and intelligent core in people like Tristan_win, Marsulas, myself and SinkingHigher, it's just mitigated by...nearly everyone else.

 

[napZzz]

Falco isn't 2nd best. Imo it's MK with Snake being #1. Top tier is (imo): Snake, MK, Falco, Olimar, Diddy, D3 although the latter 3 are very close. Falco isn't better than Snake - Snake has better match-up's than Falco. I think neither of them has a match-up that's worse than 55/45 in the opponents favour (of course neither does MK) but Snake beats MK and Falco and loses to no character except D3. Falco has 45/55 match-up's vs G&W, Snake and obscure/underused characters like Zelda, Sheik and Luigi.

Snake beats Falco by a small margin but he does have the advantage. The CG is completely overrated in this match-up becuase Snake can't be chainspiked and Snake wins KO Power and "durability" by a large margin. So Falco deals ~60% dmg? That's fine 'cuz that's how much Snake lives longer. Once Falco CGs Snake, there isn't much he can do: Snake can crawl under the laser and has the advantage in range and deals overall more dmg. Snake wins 55/45 vs Falco and vs MK by the same amount.

lol snake has lots of 60/40 match ups, or at least a few, then ones not in his favor.

He gets ***** by DDD, olimar, Donkey Kong,and ROb

then there are lesser match ups that aren't too bad, but snake himself has qutie a few weakness's and problems as a character.

Easiest way to get around snake is play with shield grabs and stay airborne, in other words avoiding tilts and watching for explosives.

 

[MyCurse4Life]

Falco is awesome and what not.

 

[Runawayfire]

ICs are Falco's hardest matchups, Falco has one of the most predictable air trajectory and unless you sideb at the end of it that just isn't going to change, so he actually is pretty **** easy to grab if you have a bit of prediction skills.

Plus blizzard stops forward b, a good IC player will have blizzards out in front of them when close, in which your retreat options become heavily limited.

Falco has to play as gay as possible while never screwing up, if you screw up you die. Will you screw up 3 times a match? Maybe, maybe not,
Against a top level IC? Yeah, you're probably going to lose hard.

 

[NJzFinest]

ICs are Falco's hardest matchups, Falco has one of the most predictable air trajectory

Only a few characters don't have predictable air trajectory... and most of the ones that do are some of the best characters in the game.
Also, isn't IC constantly trying to get a grab pretty predictable?
Kirkq told me when he played Lain's IC with Rob, all he did was space ftilts and camp some since he knew Lain was constantly going for the grab.

Plus blizzard stops forward b, a good IC player will have blizzards out in front of them when close, in which your retreat options become heavily limited.

Lasers, lasers, lasers. You should pretty much do a forward b after a laser most of the time (in general).

Falco has to play as gay as possible while never screwing up, if you screw up you die. Will you screw up 3 times a match?

Screwing up = doing a laggy move at the wrong time or having bad spacing, which may result in getting grabbed. And when grabbed, you only die when you the IC is flawless as well (their infinities are alot harder then pressing B to avoid getting grabbed).

 

[lain]

NJZFinest, that was also when I didn't play IC's. I played G&W. In fact... this was like 4 or 5 months ago ahahaha.

 

[§witch]

...? @ This Fox stuff

Falco ***** Fox.
And yes, Fox is underrated. There needs to be more good people using Fox though, as of now, it's mostly random people who think Fox has 0 to high damage combos and play 90% of there matches online.

We had some nice battles on the fox boards way back when, dair>1000000x utilt FTW lol

 

[Mikey7]

NJz not trying to be mean here but do you play offline? Lasers to illusion spammy garbage doesn't work on good players there.

ICs **** Falco.

 

[§witch]

NJz not trying to be mean here but do you play offline? Lasers to illusion spammy garbage doesn't work on good players there.

ICs **** Falco.

lmfao.

Why wouldn't it work? Spamming lasers and phantasm are completely safe, how can you get hit when you run away every time your opponent comes near?

 

[NJzFinest]

NJZFinest, that was also when I didn't play IC's. I played G&W. In fact... this was like 4 or 5 months ago ahahaha.

Which is when Melee1 ***** Sethlon, 5 months ago. And you didn't play IC but you used IC in a tournament set, heh, whatever.
I'm pretty sure the IC metagame hasn't changed since then.

Back then: try to grab!

Currently: TRY TO GRAB!

We had some nice battles on the fox boards way back when, dair>1000000x utilt FTW lol

LOL, <3 Fox forums

NJz not trying to be mean here but do you play offline? Lasers to illusion spammy garbage doesn't work on good players there.

ICs **** Falco.

I hate wifi... I also think it's funny how you say that after I bash online players and use personal 1v1 experience.
And if lasers to illusion spammy garbage doesn't work, then people such as M2K, Chillin, and Sethlon are apparently dumb players.

Spamming lasers and phantasm are completely safe

^ truth

 

[§witch]

HEY GUYS!

How's about we all play really flashy and badly before we have a general knowledge of the basics?

 

[Teran]

HEY GUYS!

How's about we all play really flashy and badly before we have a general knowledge of the basics?

HEY! It helps to mask ineptitude!!

 

[lain]

NJzFinest you have no idea. But that's fine. :]

 

[Orion*]

...? @ This Fox stuff

Falco ***** Fox.
And yes, Fox is underrated. There needs to be more good people using Fox though, as of now, it's mostly random people who think Fox has 0 to high damage combos and play 90% of there matches online.

i love this post lol <3 XDDDDD

And if lasers to illusion spammy garbage doesn't work, then people such as M2K, Chillin, and Sethlon are apparently dumb players.

atomsk utilts me out of illusion lol =[

but no i agree with you. if your not ******** spamming lasers and side B is smart lol

 

[Darxmarth23]

I definitely disagree with this.

I second this. It is my opinion.

 

[§witch]

I second this.

So, you took a post from the first page of an 8 page thread, and reiterated something that has already been thoroughly discussed in the 7 pages you no doubt didn't bother to read.

 

[Darxmarth23]

So, you took a post from the first page of an 8 page thread, and reiterated something that has already been thoroughly discussed in the 7 pages you no doubt didn't bother to read.

Why, yes sir. And just because it is my opinion. But its fixed just for you. Cheers.

 

[§witch]

Why, yes sir. And just because it is my opinion. But its fixed just for you. Cheers.

Are you planning on expanding upon this opinion which you have all the rights in the world to state? Otherwise it seems to me like a waste of time.

 

[Darxmarth23]

Heck we are wasting time just arguing.

I simply believe that the same trick won't work twice. Spamming Phantasm and Lasers is eventually going to be stopped by snake somehow. I'm not an expert though. So yeah, if you want to take it that way...

I'm wasting your time. Thank you for it though. Happy Brawling my friend.

 

[yellowroy]

Yeah he's right, Snake's camp isn't as good as people say he is and he doesn't have a chaingrab(but he does have one on Falco.)But Snake is the most badass character in the game hands down.

 

[Mikey7]

Switch - you live in my region yet I've never seen you at a tourney so I'm guessing you play wifi? This kind of garbage works there. Wifi blows.

NJz - IC's blizzard (down b) stops phantasm...also...phantasm is really really predictable. You must not have played any IC's lately that are good. IC players are better at getting grabs...their metagame has nothing to do with this.

 

[§witch]

Switch - you live in my region yet I've never seen you at a tourney so I'm guessing you play wifi? This kind of garbage works there. Wifi blows.

NJz - IC's blizzard (down b) stops phantasm...also...phantasm is really really predictable. You must not have played any IC's lately that are good. IC players are better at getting grabs...their metagame has nothing to do with this.

Nice one, I live in Ottawa, and have no transportation, I make due here. And that in no way disproves what I'm saying, nice try though.

NJz is known, and a good player, we're not saying phantasm into them. Why would you have to do that when you can SHL/SHDL without having to get into their range.

Lrn2readingcomprehension.