Falchion's Chosen - Marth Discussion Thread

[roymaster803]

Use this thread for Marth metagame discussion. Tricks, tips, general feel of the character, how to use him best. You know what to do. No flaming/hating/trolling in bad taste.

 

[roymaster803]

I don't think this was in demo 2.1, but Marth's Bair can now be SH wavedashed out of. It's nice for spacing since now F-air and B-air can do it. I like that he changes color with Dancing blade. I think his grab range may have been nerfed, can anyone confirm this?

 

[MaxThunder]

that was possible... pretty sure it's even possible in melee...

 

[cannedbread]

I think his grab range may have been nerfed, can anyone confirm this?

hell no
his grab game is even better than anything with brawl pivot grab in
his pivot grab is so good

 

[JesiahTEG]

Marth is weird in this game. He's the same obviously but idk maybe I'm just too new to the game but something feels weird

 

[Strong Badam]

I love Marth in Melee and this game. I use Purple Marth! Fabulous :D

 

[Archangel]

Marth is weird in this game. He's the same obviously but idk maybe I'm just too new to the game but something feels weird

it's not just you. As a Marth Main in melee I must say Marth still feels weird. Part of it is the overall physics difference but other times...he floats a bit too much. like...slightly too much for seemingly no reason. Not to mention things like his Utilt are not fully mapped to his melee self from what I can tell.

Still, once you adjust to the different look and slightly different feel it's same old marth. Grab, Fair, Ken combo, reverse Up-B...etc...etc.

 

[Shadow Huan]

Still, once you adjust to the different look and slightly different feel it's same old marth. Grab, Fair, Ken combo, reverse Up-B...etc...etc.

nothing new, in this case, makes him a VERY boring character for me. hence boozer for me

marth is still good tho, dat edgeguarding

 

[roymaster803]

yeah, I've noticed Marth seems floatier than he should be. He also is boring in that he's mostly just spacing and grabs. He can edge guard well and combo well. But he doesn't have anything that spices up his moveset. He works don't get me wrong. I just wish he had something special that draws attention. Maybe like even changing his counter to make it more like Brawl's where it doesn't have set KB and dmg. It doesn't need to be super powerful like Ike's but it should at least be able to send foes flying. If someone wiffs a Falcon punch or power move I and I can't do any other move but counter I'd like it to actually punish them.

 

[cannedbread]

i like how simple marth is
after trying to screw around with crazy bull**** lucas and lucario and stuff i just like to go back to marth and grab and space and wd and dd and get *****es and **** money

 

[Deleted member]

i think marth is perfect.

not that good in this game, but still done perfectly.

 

[SpiderMad]

But he doesn't have anything that spices up his moveset.

Demo version 1 had a faster ending side-b (along with other subtle differences, I'm mostly talking about the single first swipe of it), It gained SO MUCH more potential from things like wave-bouncing it since you could act sooner out of it and stuff.

 

[RedGamer]

any advice vs wolf?

dat blaster, yo

 

[Jolteon]

Swat them and push him into the corner. Marth's dash dance game is great for this because it requires the opponent pay him a great deal of respect, which allows him to take up more space. If you are getting hit in neutral, dash dance better.

His blaster's a lot riskier in the corner, you can hit him in the start-up on reaction or just fair/utilt/whatever and it'll go through his blaster and hit him.

 

[RedGamer]

how about vs lucario?

 

[MaxThunder]

Anyone know how to fight ivy?..

 

[Amazerommu]

Screw Ivysaur! Use sword to swat away magical leaf/razor leaf spammers. That's about all I can say. I generally keep my distance from Ivysaur (as backwards as that sounds) and wait for an attack. Then I go in for a grab or try to poke them off the stage. After that you can try to spike them while they're trying to recover. Watch out for that Dair though. I've gotten spiked by that more than a few times. Ivysaur is pretty easy to combo once you grab them though... at least the few people I've played against haven't been too troublesome. Ivysaur is quite annoying though

 

[MaxThunder]

Yeah I took two stocks from the two grabs I got... But he was basically doing what you're telling me to do... And ivy can outrange marth...

Only took 2 stocks<.<...

 

[Amazerommu]

Haha, yeah Ivysaur is a tough matchup for Marth... Hmmm I sometimes try to bait a grab out of them and when they miss I go in and grab or start a combo. You could also try to throw some counters in there but you don't wanna rely on that too much and you mainly wanna do it when they're shorthopping the whip. I don't know if the vines count as a hitbox or not. But I'd say if you get good at timing pivot grabs you can grab Ivy right out of its attacks. That's just a theory btw... I need to test some of this stuff myself next time I play. Also are you playing with a person or CPU?

 

[MaxThunder]

Can't grab vines... Art least I couldn't... Was playing with human...

 

[Amazerommu]

Do you dash a lot? Dash dancing/wavedashing toward and/or away to force an attack out of Ivy is a good idea. You have a good few moments before an Ivy grab or leaf throw or forward smash to get a quick jab or grab in yourself. But you have to be pretty fast about reacting to it. Also practice spiking Ivy out of her recovery. With other characters that's not as risky, but it can be a fairly easy kill. You always know the trajectory they're gonna take once the vines grab the edge, so you can pre-emptively fall off the stage and spike where Ivy is gonna be. That one with Marth would take some serious practice tho. I haven't done it much myself but I've seen it and it works. Just make sure you don't waste your double jump beforehand so you can get back on the stage

 

[MaxThunder]

I had a lot of trouble getting around ivy's down-tilt without going up... And marth really doesn't want to be above ivy<.<... he also kept retreating with the leaves or doing them when I was not in a position to punish... And got punished myself if I tried...

was the ivy you've played pulling in instantly?.. I couldn't edgeguard so I mostly just waited on the ledge...

 

[Amazerommu]

Sometimes he would sometimes he wouldn't. I'd just get lucky and get the spike. Other than that I usually swatted him back away from the edge with a Fair or Bair while he was still out of range to tether it... You can go out a lot farther than Ivy's tether can to knock him back out. Try to go out there after him and kill his double jump. Not sure why I didn't mention that before either... I also do counter him quite a bit while swatting away his frickin annoying leaves. I mess that up still tho. And I definitely understand about the down tilt.

Last time I played with my friend I didn't think to have him use Ivysaur, I would've recorded it to give you a visual of how I usually deal with him. Figure it might help. I'll try to do that next time we're together.

 

[MaxThunder]

Cool, that would be helpful=)...

 

[Amazerommu]

Oh there was one thing I noticed recently.... it was while playing a CPU Ivy, but I tend to get most of my kills on Ivysaur with Dancing Blade... The 3rd side hit can kill Ivysaur as low as 99% I've seen. You might try that until I can record me and my friend playing.

 

[tripwire]

The 3rd hit against anyone is quite strong but I don't think that should be your go to move when playing with Marth. I'd imagine you wouldn't to counter on top of her when she throws a leaf, can Marth follow up from his counter with anything really? If you get in on Ivy I'd say grab would be your best option or down tilt. Anything to get her to the edge for an easy gimp.

I also think Marth can try to set up for Down-Air spikes if he is holding the edge and Ivy reels in after her Up-B since she is forced to hop over you.

 

[MaxThunder]

Nah you can react out of the jump instantly now... Better to just get on stage and wait for her to try getting down...

 

[MaxThunder]

Oops... ...

 

[Amazerommu]

It's pretty hard to spike Ivy out of that vine tether. She reels up so fast you have to have near perfect timing. And I wasn't saying that Dancing Blade should be his go to move, just something to try since he's having understandable difficult with Ivysaur. As far as I know most Marth players don't use Dancing Blade much, so it might just throw off whoever MaxThunder is playing with. The attack has terrible end lag on every single hit so using it at lower percentages isn't too wise. But if you get the timing down you can almost surely get a kill off a mistake a 90+% Ivy makes. And yes, with Marth, down tilts are one of your best friends, especially crouch cancelled ones. Wavedashing in and out with well spaced down tilts is a good idea... should clash with that insanely long reaching Ivy down tilt... Idk though I think I play Marth differently than most. I like to try to control the opponent in the air, keep them from touching the ground, whether that be above or off stage... get myself killed a lot by going off the stage after opponents trying to do too much lol. I have been working on changing that though. (Hard fighting style to break)

 

[tripwire]

Maybe I have near perfect timing then, as I'm under the impression the speed of the reel up is universal among tether grabs. Doing a ledge hop Dair shouldn't be too hard or unfamilar for you as a Marth main.

 

[MaxThunder]

It's definitely not universal... Ivy's is fastest I believe... and hard do deal with if the ivy is messing up the timing...

 

[tripwire]

Haha i guess its not then again i don't fight Ivy tooooo often. Maybe I'm thinking of Lucas with his big ass head.

 

[Amazerommu]

LOL! Well Lucas' tether is a lot shorter than Ivysaur's and ZSS's. So he's pretty much always in range of a ledge hop dair if they try to recover with it. Ivy and ZSS have crazy reach, and if your opponent mixes up the timing when they reel up it's almost impossible to spike them. They both have almost immediate reel times, I guess to make them less prone to such tactics.

 

[tripwire]

Yes this is true tbh I had forgotten so much bout tether lengths. I've only been able to play against CPU DK and Bowser for a month. I'll assume the Links are in the middle ground of length then?

 

[leelue]

Ivy dies if you catch her before she drops to a dead hang. You just go out far and Bair. If you miss, you probably die, but whatever get better.

If she's in a dead hang, you can hold the ledge longer than she can and when she finally does come up she can't act right away by design.

 

[Amazerommu]

Yeah, I believe they are both probably about half of Ivy's length, longer than Lucas' that's for sure. And yeah leelue I often go out and swat Ivysaur further away from the edge, I usually use Fair or Nair tho. Marth can go out quite a bit farther than Ivy's tether can reach and still be able to recover, thank goodness to Side-B lol

 

[MaxThunder]

Ivy dies if you catch her before she drops to a dead hang. You just go out far and Bair. If you miss, you probably die, but whatever get better.

If she's in a dead hang, you can hold the ledge longer than she can and when she finally does come up she can't act right away by design.

She goes through the attack when she reels in, though...

playing gay until you get her in the air and keeping her there until she can be hit far enough off stage to die works sorta... Think I'll use zard for this matchup for now...

 

[Amazerommu]

She goes through the attack when she reels in, though...

playing gay until you get her in the air and keeping her there until she can be hit far enough off stage to die works sorta... Think I'll use zard for this matchup for now...

That's pretty much what I do lol. Ivy's air attacks are much easier to deal with than that ******* down tilt... Except back air. That one annoys the crap out of me sometimes.

 

[Tuvillo]

Am I the only one who wants Dancing Blades and Shield Breaker from vBrawl back?

They were both really useful in there. (Shield Breaker mostly for recovery, though.)

 

[Amazerommu]

I deeeeeefinitely prefer Melee versions over Brawl lol...