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Fact 54 - Mewtwo Is On The Way [Social/General Discussion]

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godogod

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Eh, I'd rather be able to play as him as soon as he's downloaded.
Fair enough. Available immediately when the time comes, for people who have both games(CN offer), but 20 hours of multiplayer for everyone else for free. huehuheh.

what about everything else. Do you believe his customs and trophies should be earned?

I hope Mewtwo remains floaty like he was in Melee, but I also want his attacks to hit harder consequently. I feel like Mewtwo, moveset-wise, was perfect as he is, but his actual attacks lacked 'oomph'. Smash 4 can change that.
I also want him to stay slow and floaty because now Lucario has been changed to be faster, meaning they don't overlap in playstyle anymore.
Mewtwo should be changed to have more reach with all of his attacks. His tail should stretch out some more, his Side Special and Down Special are Psychic moves and shouldn't be close range anyway, and his Smash attacks could have a bit of an AOE.
Lucario is slow and (somewhat) floaty though. His attack speed is a little on the slower slide... Equal to charizard or a bit better. His dash speed is the second lowest of all pokemon as well. I'm fine with Mewtwo's power from melee. Not a lot of characters do 25-28% charged smash attack.. He has plenty of kill options in melee. Smash attacks, shadow ball(25% with good knockback), up and back throw, forward air, and down air.
 
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PLATINUM7

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Fair enough. Available immediately when the time comes, for people who have both games(CN offer), but 20 hours of multiplayer for everyone else for free. huehuheh.

what about everything else. Do you believe his customs and trophies should be earned?
I don't see why not.
 

Wise Multishine

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So, if no one noticed Mewtwo is officially God-Tier in Project M!

Edit: I forgot to point out that, as far as I could tell, there isn't an official 3.5 tier list yet and he did receive some nerfs in that version so, yeah.
Yeah. Considering the recent nerfs, (15% shorter tail & nerfed teleport) his tier placement is going to plummet. He's much more of a finesse character now. No more unapproachable tail juggling and nonpunishable recovery.
 

Ryu Myuutsu

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Oh I was thinking Sakurai wasn't being true to characters again. You know like Ridley, Ganondorf, all that stuff.
Ridley's portrayal as a boss is actually true to him, so I don't understand why people say that it's not the case. While Ganondorf's moveset exudes power since he holds the triforce of power, which provides him with super human strength.

And the game teases Chrom just for humor, is not meant to be taken seriously. Anyways, Lucina is a descendant from Marth so it's pretty logical to assume that his fighting style was passed down to her.
 
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D

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Yeah, we'll see. . I'm not expecting heavier than charizard, or even Ganondorf, because like that post said, sakurai throws canon stuff out the window. I still have that "light because he's floating than mid-air" excuse from Sakurai in my mind, when I said what I did though.
It's not "throwing canon stuff out the window". It's merely not applying literal weight in the weight stat. As I said, "weight" is just the term for "knockback resistance" in Smash. The "heavier" a character is, the more they can resist being knocked away.


Also.. Samus is in a space suit, sakurai made all the females-samus in space suit as lightweight characters. Oh and on that link regarding femtwo/mewtwo y's knockback. Mewtwo goes from 269lbs to 72.8lbs. Almost 200lb difference.
A. The weight stat of the female characters being on the lighter side sans regular Samus is irrelevant to this discussion.
What is relevant is that weight in Smash =/= ACTUAL WEIGHT. Understand that now.
Your "excuse" for why Samus is heavy (she's in a space suit) DOES NOT EXPLAIN why Samus without said suit, i.e. Zero Suit Samus, falls faster than standard Samus when she's lighter without the Power Suit.

B. I'm not talking Mega Mewtwo Y. I'm talking standard Femtwo. As in, the same damn 269 lb species as Oldtwo. Seriously. The Red Genesect hit Femtwo (who I repeat, was not Mega Evolved at the time) with a Blaze Kick that sent her flying far back just blocking it. Considering the same attack barely knocked a 196 lb Feraligatr away with a clean hit (yes, I'm aware it was a Fire move on a Water type, however types don't factor in the amount of force applied in the anime)....
And in the Prologue, in the earliest scene, we see her get knocked around from an Energy Ball by an Escavalier.


He needs to be heavier than lucario. Above average is what most people want.

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Mewtwo_(Pokémon)
He "needs" to be heavier compared to his standing in Melee, that much is given unless Mewtwo's being effectively balanced as a Glass Cannon to where the low weight is to balance out other strengths such as sheer KO capability.
He does not "need" to be heavier than Lucario by any stretch.
 

HakuryuVision

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Anyone hoping for any Mewtwo news today?
(Even if it's just him playable in Pokken)
 

MagiusNecros

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Ridley's portrayal as a boss is actually true to him, so I don't understand why people say that it's not the case. While Ganondorf's moveset exudes power since he holds the triforce of power, which provides him with super human strength.

And the game teases Chrom just for humor, is not meant to be taken seriously. Anyways, Lucina is a descendant from Marth so it's pretty logical to assume that his fighting style was passed down to her.
As a boss. Yes. As far as mechanics and properties no. It's out of character. It's complicated.

--------------------

Chrom is also descended from Marth. If I was Chrom I would not find such teasing humorous.
 

Xzsmmc

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Ridley's portrayal as a boss is actually true to him, so I don't understand why people say that it's not the case.
Because he's a savage murdering monster who loves to cause death and pain. Him immediately becoming someone's slave just because they hit him is incredibly unfitting.

While Ganondorf's moveset exudes power since he holds the triforce of power, which provides him with super human strength.
The problem is, Ganndorf has never actually fought like that in any Zelda game. He's always used either sorcery or a sword. It'd be like if Dedede had nothing but pecking attacks because he's a penguin. It'd be less frustrating if he wasn't a clone of a character he has absolutely no connection with.

And the game teases Chrom just for humor, is not meant to be taken seriously.
There are better ways to be funny than repeatedly making a character look like a total loser, and rubbing in the fact that you can't play as him. I've never even touched a Fire Emblem game, and yet I think it's a bit harsh.
 

Smashoperatingbuddy123

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OH yeah, in terms of DLC with Mewtwo.. I'd love it if..

-you need to face him in 1vs1 with the challenger approaching sign before you can play him
-a returning pokemon stage like Saffron City or Pokefloats(or a new one like cerulean cave) with some extra tracks like Mega Charizard vs Mewtwo(pokemon origins theme).
-you need to unlock all his trophies like any other character via classic, shop, and all-star
-have an additional challenge or two in event mode. The stage is unlocked via event mode.
-maybe an extra challenge overall(in those blue screens)
-you need to unlock his customs like any other character

Yes, I do want some of him to be earned. Even though he is DLC, I don't want everything to be handed to me. Customs for a single character aren't that hard to unlock. All star mode on hard can get you them fast! However, a patch where we don't get repeats of customs would be nice.

You know what would be troll mode/hilariously funny? If Nintendo/releases a patch for everyone to get the extra event mode for ree, including facing against Mewtwo, but obviously not being able to play him or the stage.. heh. Would be a nice incenitive to make people buy him.

  1. I would love to fight him before you use him but sorry dlc because available i mediabtly after buying
  2. As long as mewtwo prooves sakurai wrong about dlc being a failure (sakurai thinks mewtwo dlc is not going to be good) more stages could happen
  3. :confused: Uuummmmmm that one is going to happen no matter what did you even see the 50 facts thing all characters have mutiple versions of themselves (wii fit trainer is the best example of mutiple trophys. By classic, shop, all-star)
  4. That might be possible
  5. As long as mewtwo does not have the same thing with :4palutena: and :4miibrawl::4miigun::4miisword: your wish will come true
 
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Ryu Myuutsu

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As a boss. Yes. As far as mechanics and properties no. It's out of character. It's complicated.
Because he's a savage murdering monster who loves to cause death and pain. Him immediately becoming someone's slave just because they hit him is incredibly unfitting.
No, it isn't complicated; that's just reading too much into it. And Jesus, don't try to make it sound dramatic saying "become someone's slave". That is just a gameplay feature, is not intended to depict a character's trait or personality or the do do's and don't do's of what he/she would do in a situation in their home series.

Because if we start to look at it that way then we have too many other examples that would be an "out of character" moment and pretending that they conflict with them would get silly, like:

-Ganondorf and Link are mortal enemies yet you can have them fight as allies in a team match against Zelda. Ganondorf, the King of Evil, would never fight along the hero of Hyrule.
-When playing Smash Run as Bowser, Koopa Troopas and Magi Koopas will attack him., their own king! Same with Ganon and enemies like the Stalfos.
-Mario can beat up Peach. He is a hero, he is supposed to save her, not beat the crap out of her. Is not like him to do something like that.
-The Halberd's weaponry can target and attack Meta Knight. That ship is run by his own men, they should turn on his enemies, not him.
-Peppy, Falco and Slippy and the Great Fox may shoot Fox in the Corneria stage. They've always showed loyalty and would never back stab their own leader like that.
-And the biggest offenders: Assist Trophies. We were talking about how brutal Ridley can be and how he doesn't do someone's bidding, right? So I guess that unlike him, Mother Brain, Andross, Ghirahim, Dark Samus, Shadow, the Ghosts, Samurai Goroh, etc. are far more submissive in their home series then. It's a worse case than Ridley's since they don't even oppose you and immediately assist the character who called them. Fox is capable of summoning Andross; Samus can call Dark Samus; and Link can do the same with Ghirahim; those villains will HELP their mortal enemies without even resisting at all. Out of character and demeaning indeed, right? After all, a lot of them are big bads who would never "slave" to someone like that.

And yet everyone is ok with that. But since it's Ridley now people want to feel offended, because *sigh* it's Ridley and that subject somehow overrides logic and reason. It's hypocritical.

I think you can get my point here. Ridley's appearance and how he works is not a personal attack on his person, it's just an inoffensive gameplay feature. He is no different from a lot of this examples and out of all the NPC characters he has received the best treatment of all (second best thing besides being playable), he has appeared in all Smash games in some form, he was a story boss not once but twice in Brawl and now a stage boss in this iteration. And do not tell me he is a special case; people always make him an exception for some reason.
I think it's badass how he can fight alongside you, it does not mean that he is some lowly lapdog or something. It's not right to pretend that he is being screwed over somehow, this is the probably the knee jerk reaction from people who wanted him playable but that is a terrible way to cope with the loss. So don't tell me again that his current appearance is unfitting because that is not case. It's stupid to say to put that way and it's a childish reaction. Not cool.

However...

Because he's a savage murdering monster who loves to cause death and pain. Him immediately becoming someone's slave just because they hit him is incredibly unfitting.
This sentence is false. In Metroid Prime Corruption, Dark Samus enslaved the Space Pirates AND Ridley to a point where they pretty much became her cult followers. Even making Ridley undergo full corruption and leaving him guarding the Leviathan in the Pirate Homeworld on her orders. And you thought Ridley in Smash 4 is incredibly unfitting. Please, let's not lie to ourselves.

There are better ways to be funny than repeatedly making a character look like a total loser, and rubbing in the fact that you can't play as him. I've never even touched a Fire Emblem game, and yet I think it's a bit harsh.
Chrom is also descended from Marth. If I was Chrom I would not find such teasing humorous.
Like the Ridley situation, you are just being oversensitive. You might as well feel offended for Colonel Campbell "insulting" Luigi or Snake disliking Sonic. Let's not be like that and stop digging for any minute detail to get angry at. Get yourselves a sense of humor, gentlemen.
 
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MagiusNecros

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Gameplay features or not it isn't true to the character. It doesn't matter what reasons you give. Ridley only worked with Dark Samus because in the end it served to benefit him. And he can't truly die anyway. So eh. Smash is noncanon as everyone is a toy figure brought to life.

Of course I can see you are part of the audience Sakurai would prefer. The uncaring it's just a game kind.
 

MewtwoX825

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Expected Mewtwo to not show up in Pokken yet. Hopefully he isn't some Unplayable final boss type ordeal cause theres plenty of other legendary Pokemon that can fit that role. If his FS in this game is MegaY, MegaX deserves to be his mega for Pokken. I am kinda pissed that they threw in Pikachu but maybe they will still make Lucario the poster boy for that game.

If Pokken does well in the arcades in Japan, which it most likley will, then a Wii U port will make $$$ for Nintendo. Hopefully it will come soon after the Arcade is released. Ive been waiting for a Fighting/Action style Pokemon game for years.
 

Ryu Myuutsu

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Gameplay features or not it isn't true to the character. It doesn't matter what reasons you give. Ridley only worked with Dark Samus because in the end it served to benefit him. And he can't truly die anyway. So eh. Smash is noncanon as everyone is a toy figure brought to life.

Of course I can see you are part of the audience Sakurai would prefer. The uncaring it's just a game kind.
Oh no, he wasn't working with her, he was working FOR her. She brainwashed him, enslaved him, had him and the rest under her foot; the same happened with the other three bounty hunters and almost with Samus. They were never willing, they were forced. Just read the logs.

And some people care more than it's healthy actually. I still think that my reasons hold ground and I don't see that aspect of Ridley in Pyrosphere as being unfaithful to his character. If I do that, I would have to say the same about a Link vs Zelda scenario for instance. The "why" of the fight is not what manners in this game; characters beat each other just for fun.
 

MewtwoX825

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Mewtwo is bound to be playable, but he'll probably be an unlockable, of course.
But....OMG! PIKACHU IS PLAYABLE!!! *dies happily*
True, might as well expect Jiggs, Charizard, and Greninja. Just because they are playable in Smash doesn't exclude them for this game.

Im curious to see what Pokemon will be playable, after Suicune, anything is possible.
 

MagiusNecros

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Oh no, he wasn't working with her, he was working FOR her. She brainwashed him, enslaved him, had him and the rest under her foot; the same happened with the other three bounty hunters and almost with Samus. They were never willing, they were forced. Just read the logs.

And some people care more than it's healthy actually. I still think that my reasons hold ground and I don't see that aspect of Ridley in Pyrosphere as being unfaithful to his character. If I do that, I would have to say the same about a Link vs Zelda scenario for instance. The "why" of the fight is not what manners in this game; characters beat each other just for fun.
Pretty sure Ridley let that happen. The power of Phazon was too good to pass up.

I wish I could beat up people for fun as Chrom and Ridley.
 
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True, might as well expect Jiggs, Charizard, and Greninja. Just because they are playable in Smash doesn't exclude them for this game.

Im curious to see what Pokemon will be playable, after Suicune, anything is possible.
Yeah, really. I was expecting only semi-tall, humanoid Pokemon to be permitted.
....omg....EEVEE!!!!!! PLLLLLLLLLLLLLSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!
 
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MagiusNecros

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I am excited for Pokken though. If they give me Tyranitar I will be hype. Definitely gonna be on Wii U down the road I think.
 

Spatman

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Yeah, really. I was expecting only semi-tall, humanoid Pokemon to be permitted.
....omg....EEVEE!!!!!! PLLLLLLLLLLLLLSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!
Eevee *-*
but without Eevolutions it would be a missed opportunity... and I don't think there will be ALL eevolutions. Maybe they could consider them as a sort of "megaevolutions" for Eevee, as for Mega Lucario and Mega Gardevoir. But it wouldn't be canonical, and it's hyronical talking about it now, since the argument of this last page of this thread....
 
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Igzex

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At least Pokken gets legit gen 2 representation unlike melee.

Pichu can go get stuck in the middle of the earth and starve to death.
 

Xzsmmc

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(second best thing besides being playable)
Being an annoying and intrusive punchbag with very slow and highly telegraphed attacks is pretty embarrassing if you ask me. I'd have rather had him as an Assist Trophy, because he'd essentially perform the same function, and Pyrosphere would have been a decently playable stage.

You can argue that Mario would never beat up Peach or that Bowser's underlings wouldn't attack him, but it's more or less unavoidable with a role as a playable character. What would the solution be though? Remove Peach?

Plus, a playable character can be expressed through other things, such as their voice, their taunts/animations and victory poses.Ridley however, is not a playable character. His one, static unchanging role is that of a boss. Therefore, shouldn't his character be expressed through this role in some way?

For Ridley, they could have easily made him similar to Metal Face or the Yellow Devil, and attack everyone indiscriminately. The Flying Man allying himself with you in the Magicant stage actually makes sense, as that is the function he performs in Earthbound. He fights alongside Ness. Never once in a Metroid game has Ridley willingly allied himself with whoever punched him in the face. You said it yourself, he was totally brainwashed by Dark Samus to serve her.

Yes, people buy Smash Bros. to kick the **** out of each other as different characters, but were I big Ridley fan, I'd be pretty disappointed that I can't do that as my favorite character, but everybody else can do it to him.
 
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Wise Multishine

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Eevee *-*
but without Eevolutions it would be a missed opportunity... and I don't think there will be ALL eevolutions. Maybe they could consider them as a sort of "megaevolutions" for Eevee, as for Mega Lucario and Mega Gardevoir. But it wouldn't be canonical, and it's hyronical talking about it now, since the argument of this last page of this thread....
Eevee should be able to switch between all of it's evolutions at will. That would be badass.
 

Wise Multishine

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That wouldn't be correct with the games at all though.
I suspect that you'll be able to choose which one to play as for that match.
Well, nah, but this is Pokken.

The only thing I can think of is it's evolution would switch between Umbreon and Espeon, depending on the time of day.
 

Ryu Myuutsu

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Never once in a Metroid game has Ridley willingly allied himself with whoever punched him in the face. You said it yourself, he was totally brainwashed by Dark Samus to serve her.
And tell me something, when have you ever seen Dark Samus, Andross or Ghirahim been called forth by their own enemies to assist them in battle when they would never do such a thing? Is kind of hypocritical to think that it's wrong with Ridley yet somehow nobody ever points this out. But of course, Ridley's an exception because.... he is Ridley???
You even said that as a playable character, there are roles that cannot be avoided. This is one of those cases as well; NPCs have to take other roles as well that would normally never happen in their home series. And it has nothing to do with a character's morality or personal traits; it's just a gameplay feature.
It's not like boss characters don't have telegraphed movements in Smash, it's pretty much the same with every other NPC including assist trophies. It wouldn't have been any worse that way. And it's interesting how you try to shift the issue back and forth from a gameplay perspective to a matter of character morality.

And how is triggering him to fight by your side any worse than being brainwashed and used by Dark Samus? Whatever the method, it doesn't change the fact that he was made to fight for someone else as cult follower. And outside of that, let's remember that it's implied that Ridley serves a higher power within the Pirates' ranks.
 

U-Throw

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Hey, guys. Listen, I've got this fantastic idea to move past the Ridley argument that's consumed this thread in flames for the past page or two. Are you ready? OK, just be ready, because it's pretty freaking revolutionary.
Seriously, I'm a Ridley fan, and even I'm sick of all this Ridley crap. As Elsa also once wisely said, "The past is in the past." Sakurai himself said he would never add Ridley as a playable character, and no amount of arguing is going to change the fact that he's a Stage Boss. It's better to just accept that fact, agree to disagree, and move on.
Please?
 
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Xzsmmc

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Hey, guys. Listen, I've got this fantastic idea to move past the Ridley argument that's consumed this thread in flames for the past page or two. Are you ready? OK, just be ready, because it's pretty freaking revolutionary.
Seriously, I'm a Ridley fan, and even I'm sick of all this Ridley crap. As Elsa also once wisely said, "The past is in the past." Sakurai himself said he would never add Ridley as a playable character, and no amount of arguing is going to change the fact that he's a Stage Boss. It's better to just accept that fact, agree to disagree, and move on.
Please?
Trust me, I'm done after this. I never wanted this to go the way it has. Though all the Ridley crap could have been avoided if he had been playable.

Ridley is the 'exception' because his role never changes. Yes, it doesn't make sense when Mario summons Lakitu. On the other hand, it makes perfect sense when Bowser or Jr. does. There are some unavoidable canon conflicts, but Ridley's could have been easily avoided by just making him attack everyone. Doesn't hurt the gameplay at all, and much more true to the character.

Really, all I'm trying to say here is that for a guy who claims to want to show 'accurate portrayals' of characters, Sakurai doesn't always do it well. My complaints about inaccuracies run far deeper than Ridley's allegiance.

Now, in terms of Mewtwo/Pokemon. I can't say I'm terribly thrilled with the lineup of Pokken so far. Besides Machamp and Blaziken, I'm not really feeling any of the other ones. Gardevoir in particular bothers me, as this was a perfectly good chance to give Gallade some much needed spotlight.
 

Deathlightning21

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Trust me, I'm done after this. I never wanted this to go the way it has. Though all the Ridley crap could have been avoided if he had been playable.

Ridley is the 'exception' because his role never changes. Yes, it doesn't make sense when Mario summons Lakitu. On the other hand, it makes perfect sense when Bowser or Jr. does. There are some unavoidable canon conflicts, but Ridley's could have been easily avoided by just making him attack everyone. Doesn't hurt the gameplay at all, and much more true to the character.

Really, all I'm trying to say here is that for a guy who claims to want to show 'accurate portrayals' of characters, Sakurai doesn't always do it well. My complaints about inaccuracies run far deeper than Ridley's allegiance.

Now, in terms of Mewtwo/Pokemon. I can't say I'm terribly thrilled with the lineup of Pokken so far. Besides Machamp and Blaziken, I'm not really feeling any of the other ones. Gardevoir in particular bothers me, as this was a perfectly good chance to give Gallade some much needed spotlight.
Bu...Bu....But Suicune Hype ;~;
 
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