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EXTENNNDUURRRRRR (samus gen. disc.)

What are your favorite moves?


  • Total voters
    518

ManoxMano

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 8, 2013
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285
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Toronto, ON
The thing has enough range to stuff out most moves that shotos can do. Its also quick enough that it usually goes unpunished - worst that happens is that they block it. It gets better when the shoto is in the corner, st.forward beats anything shoto does in corner. Translated to smash...ftilt beats out most shffl attempts if you wavedash correctly, will stuff out most approaches on the ground if it isnt baited, and is relatively unpunishable on block. Also kills bad moves OOS like a shffl or grab
Id show a vid that demonstrates the power but most vegas are too wall dive crazy to be playing the "walk them to the corner game"

And I guess until now my samus has been pretty bloodless huh
 

Hawt Salsa

Smash Apprentice
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343 and ycz

GOOD **** AT THE MELEE GAMES. Both your matches were very entertaining.
 
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343

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 4, 2012
Messages
433
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Norcal
Thanks :) Leon was really good, though he seemed to be screwing around a bit.... dunno

I was ok for two stocks, but Sing got some nice backairs in and got charge on stage :(
 
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Mars-

Smash Champion
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Chicago area
Btw dude, if your opponent just rolls onto the stage, samus actually can't get back from the bottom of FoD. Also while yes it was an impressive combo video at the time, and I don't mean to hate on it, most of these combos were only possible because your opponents: missed important techs, could not meteor cancel your dairs, and forgot to refresh their ledge invincibility. Not to take anything away from you, there were still a few cool combos, like the fast fall fair into upsmash --> dash attack --> fsmash against the falcon on FD, and the down throw --> dtilt --> jab --> dtilt --> fsmash against fox on FD. But over all, most of these combos would not have worked against better players and would have stopped after one or two of the moves.
If you save your jump like a pro samus you can jump after the wall jump and get back.
 

Litt

Samus
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If you save your jump like a pro samus you can jump after the wall jump and get back.
There are very few instances where you will be able to save your jump and use it to get back from the bottom, where a better recovery option using that jump to get back to the stage already exists... you would have to DI like straight down to the bottom corner to ever use that effectively where your opponent knows you don't have your second jump saved.... So no Mars, even if you save your jump "like a pro samus" a pro samus wouldn't save it to try to fool their opponent into believing they dont have that extra jump, because a pro any other player will know how many jumps you have and when.......
 

Mars-

Smash Champion
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There are very few instances where you will be able to save your jump and use it to get back from the bottom, where a better recovery option using that jump to get back to the stage already exists... you would have to DI like straight down to the bottom corner to ever use that effectively where your opponent knows you don't have your second jump saved.... So no Mars, even if you save your jump "like a pro samus" a pro samus wouldn't save it to try to fool their opponent into believing they dont have that extra jump, because a pro any other player will know how many jumps you have and when.......
Uh if you cc a move at high percents you will get hit way below the stage sometimes, this is a good example of when you could do it. Also sheiks forward air hits at a downward trajectory, which is another example of when it would be optimal because they can't hit you with needles below the stage like that. Also the fountain recovery is just as risky as any other recovery, it's a good mix up if you need to instead of just jumping straight for the ledge.

But who am I to argue with your years of experience. If you say it's not possible then I guess you must be right. Maybe you should open up your mind to new ideas instead of trying to shoot down everything that you haven't though of yourself. You might actually get better.
 
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Litt

Samus
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Uh if you cc a move at high percents you will get hit way below the stage sometimes, this is a good example of when you could do it. Also sheiks forward air hits at a downward trajectory, which is another example of when it would be optimal because they can't hit you with needles below the stage like that. Also the fountain recovery is just as risky as any other recovery, it's a good mix up if you need to instead of just jumping straight for the ledge.

But who am I to argue with your years of experience. If you say it's not possible then I guess you must be right. Maybe you should open up your mind to new ideas instead of trying to shoot down everything that you haven't though of yourself. You might actually get better.
I have thought of that myself... and I've played some of the best sheiks in the world... have you? when I have tried that mix up they come down there for a falling nair or fair, which forces me to tech, and it just puts you in a worse position, maybe it works with mid level players or your friends, but at the highest level, they know all of samus's bag of tricks and you can't try to fool them without getting burned yourself.... And I just know you are going to ask which sheiks, KDJ, Spawn, Tope, M2K.... ^_^ stop being such a condescending douche
 
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Mars-

Smash Champion
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I have thought of that myself... and I've played some of the best sheiks in the world... have you? when I have tried that mix up they come down there for a falling nair or fair, which forces me to tech, and it just puts you in a worse position, maybe it works with mid level players or your friends, but at the highest level, they know all of samus's bag of tricks and you can't try to fool them without getting burned yourself.... And I just know you are going to ask which sheiks, KDJ, Spawn, Tope, M2K.... ^_^ stop being such a condescending douche
LOL, first of all, you calling somebody else a "condescending douche" is hilarious, anytime anyone says anything you are there to tell them they are wrong, how did this whole conversation get started? Oh right somebody posted their combo video and you called them bad. I would put money on it that Phillip Coast Phillip is a much better samus player than you, despite the fact that you got ***** by KDJ, Spawn, TOpe, M2k.

The reason samus is still playable is because of her bag of tricks, being able to mix up how she throws out attacks, recovers, uses her charged shot. Some tricks are more useful than others, but I like how when I list specific situations where you could use the recovery with your second jump you fail to acknowledge it.

That's okay I guess, like I said all your years of experience, you're probably the best samus here. I mean considering every other samus plays her wrong, you probably must be winning tournaments left and right. I can't wait to see MLG and EVO champion Klit.
 
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Corigames

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 20, 2006
Messages
5,817
Location
Tempe, AZ
maybe it works with mid level players or your friends, but at the highest level, they know all of samus's bag of tricks and you can't try to fool them without getting burned yourself.... And I just know you are going to ask which sheiks, KDJ, Spawn, Tope, M2K.... ^_^ stop being such a condescending douche
I was able to get M2K three consecutive times with the extender grapple: one grab and two tech chases with it. I was able to avoid gimps by saving my DJ and using grapple cancels to get back since he was sniping my bombs. I only got to play one game with him and got 2 stocked, but I definitely made the robot analyze some new stuff, because, had I been someone with the competence of Darrel or Hugs, I might have been able to beat his Shiek with Samus.

In other words, one of the top players in the world didn't know how to handle some tricks that have been known for a decade simply because they're underused. Perhaps the extended FoD recovery isn't as difficult to figure out as some other things, but that doesn't mean that it's never a valid option. It also doesn't mean that a pro will be able to counter it since it's a rarely used tactic.

Lastly, K-Lit, you're just like me from 2008. I was a gigantic troll, attention *****, dismissive, and unproductive as heck. I made people dislike this community and I wasn't doing anything to coutneract it. You're the same way. You're an abrasive, rude jerk that only serves to boost his own unsubstantiated successes through the belittlement of others. At least have some humility, because it's borderline depressing how hard you try to act superior to everyone.
 

Litt

Samus
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I was able to get M2K three consecutive times with the extender grapple: one grab and two tech chases with it. I was able to avoid gimps by saving my DJ and using grapple cancels to get back since he was sniping my bombs. I only got to play one game with him and got 2 stocked, but I definitely made the robot analyze some new stuff, because, had I been someone with the competence of Darrel or Hugs, I might have been able to beat his Shiek with Samus.

In other words, one of the top players in the world didn't know how to handle some tricks that have been known for a decade simply because they're underused. Perhaps the extended FoD recovery isn't as difficult to figure out as some other things, but that doesn't mean that it's never a valid option. It also doesn't mean that a pro will be able to counter it since it's a rarely used tactic.

Lastly, K-Lit, you're just like me from 2008. I was a gigantic troll, attention *****, dismissive, and unproductive as heck. I made people dislike this community and I wasn't doing anything to coutneract it. You're the same way. You're an abrasive, rude jerk that only serves to boost his own unsubstantiated successes through the belittlement of others. At least have some humility, because it's borderline depressing how hard you try to act superior to everyone.
Hey Corigames, I have played M2K, and despite his title of robot, he is still human and isnt aware of every option on a character he rarely plays against, he is the best because he can just better player you, as he did to me (despite myself only getting 1 stocked...) I am dismissive because the vast majority of players on here are very new to the character, and others are just not as good as they claim to be, you call me an attention *****, and unproductive, but I would completely disagree. You were the one who came with guns blazing here with no shots fired in your direction, other than a ghost of your past of how ****ty of a person you used to be, that you saw in me. You used to be like that, hurray for you, but don't let what you once were cloud your judgement for what others are now. I am not the most patient person, but I certainly am productive, get to the point and get the job done, and wait ironically the same could be said for past you? you did control these boards for a while, despite being a very mediocre samus (<- self admitted), so really you need to rethink your insults, because comparing a past self to me, is kind of a compliment.

LOL, first of all, you calling somebody else a "condescending douche" is hilarious, anytime anyone says anything you are there to tell them they are wrong, how did this whole conversation get started? Oh right somebody posted their combo video and you called them bad. I would put money on it that Phillip Coast Phillip is a much better samus player than you, despite the fact that you got ***** by KDJ, Spawn, TOpe, M2k.

The reason samus is still playable is because of her bag of tricks, being able to mix up how she throws out attacks, recovers, uses her charged shot. Some tricks are more useful than others, but I like how when I list specific situations where you could use the recovery with your second jump you fail to acknowledge it.

That's okay I guess, like I said all your years of experience, you're probably the best samus here. I mean considering every other samus plays her wrong, you probably must be winning tournaments left and right. I can't wait to see MLG and EVO champion Klit.
As for Mars, I call you a condescending douche... because you were wrong... not because you were just condescending or a douche, both together and wrong at the same time warranted that insult in my book. Hmmm ***** by KDJ, Tope, Spawn, and M2K, I could get 3/4 of those that could confirm that I did not get *****, one of whom I team with, another who I trained with, and the last played at WQF at the last Mass Madness I went to where it was no where close to ****. From the combo video I saw of Phillip Coast Phillip, he has his basics down, and they are indeed good combos, but most of them were off poor techs, or lack of situational awareness from the other players, which as noted at the end of the video were not exceptional players (top 100 material), so I gave a critique of the video and he took strong offense to that. Putting money on 2 other players play is a very dumb idea sir, but if you care to every arrange it, I would be happy to oblige your request and play phillip. I would much rather play you though, or at least play you after phillip, because I know personally the only thing that gets a condescending douche to shut up, is for him to put his money where his mouth is. ^_^. To address your final points, its not samus's bag of tricks, its just the sheer number of options she has that can put her on the same footing as other viable characters, and I did acknowledge that situation, but I also said that there are other options in that situations which could be used, just because you like sticking your arm shoulder deep in her bag of tricks, doesnt mean they are necessary, or more useful than any alternative that could be used in that situation. Its not just tricks that make top samus's out there better than the rest, just look at HugS game, where the majority of his play, is just solid fundamentals with very little advanced missile or grapple "tricks". I know my place when speaking to a better player, but most of them don't even bother going on here, so when I shoot someone down, its not because I just don't respect them as a player, its because I genuinely put thought into what they say, consider if I have done it myself, if I have not, try it myself, and then speak, I just don't flip out just because someone doesn't agree with myself..........
 

Pluplue

Smash Ace
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I've been reading through the boards lately and I noticed two things about KLit.
1: He almost single-handedly revived the Samus boards. No one was posting before he got on.
2: Despite reviving the Samus boards he's the most hated person on them.

KLit I know how you feel when you see an inexperienced player say something that is just straight up wrong. I just think "Really? you can't seriously be that bad" (yes I'm kind of cruel on the inside) but SAYING "No, you're wrong and bad" to a new player isn't helping anything. Doesn't help you, and only hurts their motivation to get better by asking questions on smashboards. If I were a new player and I asked some silly question like "Why don't Samus players use up-smash when Fox down-airs"? And immediately got berated for my ignorance I would probably never post again.
You bring good information to smashboards and that's what these forums are all about, but please ease up with the unnecessarily mean comments.
 

Mars-

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That's a nice **** sandwich you did there putting a few nice things around the obvious grievances people have with this kid.

Here's the thing though, Phillip posted a combo video from 2008, and this elitist scrub decides to start critiquing it lol. Nobody asked for a critique, combo videos have nothing to do with actual skill, they are simply cool combos that you got and want to mash up to show off.

The thing about Klit is he tries to act better than anyone who posts here. It's really obnoxious and then you are trying to say he revived the boards? I'm pretty sure these boards are still dead (if you were around before brawl you would know what I mean), and everything Klit does seems to be pushing it further towards that. Having pointless arguments with Klit may technically make the boards active, but that activity is far from productive. Instead of having well though out discussions and proactive thinking, we have Klit flaming and trolling, essentially killing any useful discussions.

I stand by my responce that he should just stop posting, maybe if he wants to be a bit more respectful he could post but I doubt that's going to happen since I recall a month ago or so he was talking about how he "changed" LOL.

Oh and btw, he's not just hated on the samus boards.
 
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Litt

Samus
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That's a nice **** sandwich you did there putting a few nice things around the obvious grievances people have with this kid.

Here's the thing though, Phillip posted a combo video from 2008, and this elitist scrub decides to start critiquing it lol. Nobody asked for a critique, combo videos have nothing to do with actual skill, they are simply cool combos that you got and want to mash up to show off.

The thing about Klit is he tries to act better than anyone who posts here. It's really obnoxious and then you are trying to say he revived the boards? I'm pretty sure these boards are still dead (if you were around before brawl you would know what I mean), and everything Klit does seems to be pushing it further towards that. Having pointless arguments with Klit may technically make the boards active, but that activity is far from productive. Instead of having well though out discussions and proactive thinking, we have Klit flaming and trolling, essentially killing any useful discussions.

I stand by my responce that he should just stop posting, maybe if he wants to be a bit more respectful he could post but I doubt that's going to happen since I recall a month ago or so he was talking about how he "changed" LOL.

Oh and btw, he's not just hated on the samus boards.
Hey Mars, I seriously don't know what's up your ass but you need to chill. Anything that is put up on the boards is going to be critiqued, and despite you thinking my critique to be useless or trolling, a newer member could have read my cirque after watching the combo video and understood how those combos were not guaranteed and in the specific instances where they would have fallen short against higher caliber players. You say I have not changed because you came at me guns a blazing on top of phillip riding on about what I said about his video, perhaps if you weren't so ignorant and stuck in the past you could see I have changed, but poke a dog in the eye and its still going to bite you, good past or not. I have been a lot less discouraging these past few weeks, and while my encouragement isnt all the way there get, does it mean you can turn a blind eye to the change that has happened. If you even check on the PM samus boards, I took the time to lay out a road map of 3.0 samus for them and its the only pinned post. I wouldn't go as far as plup to say I revived them, maybe just started posting a bit around the time they became more active again, but I do know that nothing you are saying accomplishes anything here but a witch hunt to appease your boredom, because you are hardly ever on these boards to be invested in getting some one to shut up after 1-2 posts, if anyone is being disrespectful it is you sir, you challenge and question my character in real life and as a person, where all I may have done is been a little short or not given enough positive attention to another player, and I'm sure a number of people can notice, so don't hide behind a witch hunt to fuel your desire to be the bad guy and start a fight with someone, I'm not interested, how about we just stop speaking with each other?
 
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I was going to post some image related to "high tension" since it totally fits the atmosphere in here. Except I found some disturbing images related to a movie high tension with some woman who reminds me of the wrecking ball hannah montana.

But, more seriously, I have no idea how to approach using Samus. With YLink I have some idea of how he plays I believe. YLink has the projectiles and the vertical acceleration to safe pull and use them. So, he could spend most of the match doing chip damage. Falco with usage of lasers can lock down characters movement and advance on his terms. Puff does something similar it seems, but using the aerial mobility advantage instead. However, from the little I have seen I am not sure the overall strategy with Samus to try to gain my advantage and force it.
 

Mars-

Smash Champion
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Hey Mars, I seriously don't know what's up your...
tl;dr Please ffs use paragraphs and organize your thoughts better.

I was going to post some image related to "high tension" since it totally fits the atmosphere in here. Except I found some disturbing images related to a movie high tension with some woman who reminds me of the wrecking ball hannah montana.

But, more seriously, I have no idea how to approach using Samus. With YLink I have some idea of how he plays I believe. YLink has the projectiles and the vertical acceleration to safe pull and use them. So, he could spend most of the match doing chip damage. Falco with usage of lasers can lock down characters movement and advance on his terms. Puff does something similar it seems, but using the aerial mobility advantage instead. However, from the little I have seen I am not sure the overall strategy with Samus to try to gain my advantage and force it.
LOL

Samus's approaches are usually best when done behind a projectile. Think like a falco with slower projectiles but more intimidating. Depending on how they react to the projectiles depends on how you approach. For example if you missile cancel vs a fox and they shine it (mostly lower level fox players do this) then they will be stuck in the shine for a little while you can follow up by jumping over the missile and down air into a combo.

If they shield then you can grab them.

Some people just stand there and try to be fancy by attacking through the missiles, for these people I just spam more because eventually they will probably mess up.

It's all experimentation seeing different reactions and formulating solutions to what they do.

The nice thing though is that when you are throwing out missiles it sometimes causes people to approach more, which approaching usually puts you at a disadvantage, so keep that in mind with some of her traps you can do like wavedashing back and outspacing with samus's long moves.
 
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K, I figured it was some reliance on projectiles. It just seems in order for missles to actually be effective for follow-up you need them lagless. Which means wasting time getting into position from a platform and fox getting under you or something like that before the missle comes out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5Ceu6Md190#t=501
 
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Litt

Samus
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Feb 2, 2013
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K, I figured it was some reliance on projectiles. It just seems in order for missles to actually be effective for follow-up you need them lagless. Which means wasting time getting into position from a platform and fox getting under you or something like that before the missle comes out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5Ceu6Md190#t=501
Yeahhhh you don't need to just throw out a missile as your only form of approaching, the most common method is to dash dance around into wavedash forward --> forward tilt, this is done as both anti airs to hit your opponent just as they attempt to jump to do an aerial and it has a good amount of range, where if you space it well enough, it wont be punished. After you have conditioned them into shield with the tilts, you can pressure their shield with jab pressure and notice what OoS options your opponent uses and then punish accordingly for rolling, jumping, or trying to grab you. Yes using missiles to force your opponent to approach you with a missile spam can be done on almost any stage with platforms, but just throwing one out there and running in isnt the safest option either, because actually smart players will realize they can just nair, fair or fsmash through missiles and then.... holy **** your are running at them full force, they got rid of the missile.... and you are about to run into a ... fair nair fsmash or what not. Do not just go in on an opponent, you have to understand how they react to what you are doing, and you need to gauge how effective it is against them, and adapt yourself accordingly. Movement is vital in this game, and you want to be able to close the distance between yourself and your opponent without necessarily confronting them with any attack first because you are in a good enough position. This is where you see a lot of newer samus players shoot a missile and just run in with a dash attack, because they don't understand the necessity of concealing movement and closing the space between the two characters on screen in an efficient, safe, but varying way.
 

Litt

Samus
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tl;dr Please ffs use paragraphs and organize your thoughts better.


LOL

Samus's approaches are usually best when done behind a projectile. Think like a falco with slower projectiles but more intimidating. Depending on how they react to the projectiles depends on how you approach. For example if you missile cancel vs a fox and they shine it (mostly lower level fox players do this) then they will be stuck in the shine for a little while you can follow up by jumping over the missile and down air into a combo.

If they shield then you can grab them.

Some people just stand there and try to be fancy by attacking through the missiles, for these people I just spam more because eventually they will probably mess up.

It's all experimentation seeing different reactions and formulating solutions to what they do.

The nice thing though is that when you are throwing out missiles it sometimes causes people to approach more, which approaching usually puts you at a disadvantage, so keep that in mind with some of her traps you can do like wavedashing back and outspacing with samus's long moves.
Umm what? and you say I don't contribute anything and should shut up? way to give a single way to approach to someone that doesn't understand the character too well or the important of neutral game. YEAHH JUST SHOOT A MISSILE AND THAT SOLVES ALL PROBLEMS... :/ Sorry dude but if anything, your contribution was sub par, and you have no right to criticize me at all, let alone ask/tell me to not post here, where the quality of what you say for advice isn't particular informative. Just letting you know, i'm going to block your user so I don't see your comments any longer, but I seriously hope its clear to everyone now, you came in here looking for a fight, and you literally have nothing to back it up besides mean words ^_^
 

Hawt Salsa

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Wow. I picked a REAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLY bad time to become a samus player, am I right?

alright, on to something more productive. Lets talk about follow ups for a second. If i were to get some vertical knockback on a foe (via uptilt, because it's straight up) What is my best way to follow up? Would my best bet be to just nair? Or of course It was a spacie I could just fsmash, but the question still stands.
 

Litt

Samus
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Wow. I picked a REAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLY bad time to become a samus player, am I right?

alright, on to something more productive. Lets talk about follow ups for a second. If i were to get some vertical knockback on a foe (via uptilt, because it's straight up) What is my best way to follow up? Would my best bet be to just nair? Or of course It was a spacie I could just fsmash, but the question still stands.
Options for that case, jump up for style point, bomb on them into nair, space a tippered bair, if they aren't at kill percent quite yet or you aren't confident in the edguard you just set up, you can dair them onto stage, and try to read their tech with a f/d smash, or a grab into up throw --> another nair/bair. Those are pretty much all the options you could have used in the scenario, if you wanna get more specific and technical, you could have Aerial Interrupted onto the top platform (If you uptilted them in the middle of the stage), and then follow it up with a forward smash.

So in a knut shell, yes the best option is nair their, but you can always extend the combo if you didnt think nair would kill, or if the position it would put them in, would be too difficult for you to get the kill, so extending it gives you more damage with a potential kill with the tech read.

As for now being a bad time to become a samus main... Dude, there is no good time or bad time, if you need help, plenty of people on here will help you. Its just way too many people are way too sensitive and pick fights way too easily. If anything, this is the best time because if you get an argument over one of your posts, you get a **** ton of info that you may not have known over two players playing the.... who has the bigger **** contest... which are fun and all, but if you sift through all the rulers and fake additional inches attempted to be added, you will actually get a fair amount of good info, rather than if you just got a short quick response from someone that said, yup nair is best option.
 
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Mars-

Smash Champion
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Jun 15, 2006
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K, I figured it was some reliance on projectiles. It just seems in order for missles to actually be effective for follow-up you need them lagless. Which means wasting time getting into position from a platform and fox getting under you or something like that before the missle comes out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5Ceu6Md190#t=501
You have to react to what they are doing. A lot of times when people try to get below me I drop on them with a sex kick. The missile is just creating some action between you and your opponent. They also will throw off your opponents spacing, something you need to take advantage of. If you want to see a samus that's really good with this look at some videos of ESAM.

Like I said before though, the fact that you caused them to approach is great because that's exactly what you want. Samus's strongest game is her defenses, when you force them to play offense they are letting you play defense.

Also I should add, getting in position isn't hard, you can waveland down and drop through the platform, or you can waveland horizontal off the platform to missile cancel.
 
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Mars-

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Chicago area
Lets talk about follow ups for a second. If i were to get some vertical knockback on a foe (via uptilt, because it's straight up) What is my best way to follow up? Would my best bet be to just nair? Or of course It was a spacie I could just fsmash, but the question still stands.
It depends. Vs spacies you could fsmash, or dsmash. At higher percents you can follow up with a bair or nair, preferably a bair but go for whatever is available.

Vs floaties I usually go for uairs for the spacing, plus the lower knockback allows further hits sometimes. Out of grabs there are definite combos, HugS posted some follow ups a few years ago I'm sure they are around somewhere, but down throw on sheik if they DI away you can dash attack or charge shot, if they di neutral you can fsmash. A lot of this applies to marth as well.
 

Hawt Salsa

Smash Apprentice
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knut shell.
Also, Thank you ! Does bomb -> nair work against every character in the air? or only at mid-high percent?

It depends. Vs spacies you could fsmash, or dsmash. At higher percents you can follow up with a bair or nair, preferably a bair but go for whatever is available.

Vs floaties I usually go for uairs for the spacing, plus the lower knockback allows further hits sometimes. Out of grabs there are definite combos, HugS posted some follow ups a few years ago I'm sure they are around somewhere, but down throw on sheik if they DI away you can dash attack or charge shot, if they di neutral you can fsmash. A lot of this applies to marth as well.
Now for the grabs bit (my first human practice this month will be at a regional monthly saturday), how should I normally go about getting them? Is it quite slow. Is the extender grab good against anyone or a waste?

I will be bringing a notebook to my monthly with me and practically stalk The Prime.
 
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JerkPhil

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Does bomb -> nair work against every character in the air? or only at mid-high percent?
I think fastfallers can get out of it at low %. Either way, we can't knock them upwards a low percents anyway. It works on all non-fastfallers at all percents if you space it correctly, I think.

Now for the grabs bit (my first human practice this month will be at a regional monthly saturday), how should I normally go about getting them? Is it quite slow. Is the extender grab good against anyone or a waste?
I can't comment on the extender as it doesn't exist in the PAL version.
Grabs are gotten from techchases, reads and when they shield missiles.
 

ycz12

Smash Ace
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I don't think I've ever used bomb > nair in a serious tournament match, which makes me sad, because it's really fun. Maybe I'll start using it after u-throw against spacies if they don't DI. That seems pretty reasonable. But yeah it's not very useful.

To elaborate on what JerkPhil said, you should grab when the opponent is in a situation where you've noticed they tend to shield. That probably doesn't seem very helpful, but keep an eye out for when your f-smashes and dash attacks tend to get shielded and you may notice some opportunities.
 

ManoxMano

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Correct me if I'm wrong but I've used grabs to punish a missed aerial attempt, like if Fox tries to dair me, I wavedash back and go for a grab. The more vulnerable an enemy gets the easier it is to grab them - that's why grabs during the neutral game get stuffed hard.

EDIT:
Media alert!
Mumeizako AKA PL takes on two killer Peaches in WF and GF: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMGeNIYTdIs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGxswjKIMY4
PL vs Sanne (Fox) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKY799mJ_ew
Yuroz takes on Sobameshi (Fox) for 7th: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGPTYwumIjs
Yuroz vs Blue Earth (Falco): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8azGWNik_ss
Sheik (Sheik) vs PL https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYleooqmr_Y
Teams: They have moonspeak so i dont know who the sami are
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEVoLDN1LVk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55a5r5cvZbQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MRQlq1xRVg
 
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JerkPhil

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The grab comes out in 18 frames. I think you would really need a hard read to grab them during a L-canceled Dair (9 frames landing lag). I think we punish better and harder with Dsmash (gives positional advantage) or Dtilt (opportunity to follow up) as they are only 6 frames and aren't as much of a commitment.
 

ycz12

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I think the main selling point of wavedash back -> grab as a reaction to, say, Falco doing a dash SH at you, is that you can't get hit out if it. With reaction d-smash or f-tilt, there's a very real possibility that Falco's d-air will clip your leg before the hitbox comes out, leading to a trade or loss where grab would just straight up work.

And often against certain Falcos/Foxes/Falcons it's very easy to tell, well in advance, when they're going to short hop at you and do an aerial. Whether you choose to go for WD back grab, or stick with something safer like up-B out of shield just in case, is up to you.
 

Mars-

Smash Champion
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Now for the grabs bit (my first human practice this month will be at a regional monthly saturday), how should I normally go about getting them? Is it quite slow. Is the extender grab good against anyone or a waste?

I will be bringing a notebook to my monthly with me and practically stalk The Prime.
Well for sheiks take a look:
Sheik's shield is also very good against Samus's ground stuff, since Samus defends mainly with normals and they can all be grab-punished if not spaced meticulously (and even if it is spaced well, some of it is still punishable).
This is generally the approach I see most sheiks using on samus. Run up -> shield, wd back to shield, the main thing they have on you is their shield. If you can predict it well you can easily get grabs on sheik.

Work on your spacing with the dash grab too, not sure if this is correct but seems to work for me, if you dash grab and they dodge, if you space it so the very end of the grapple is over them it will still grab them even if they dodge. Not sure if you understand that let me know I can clarify.

The main thing you gotta worry about is their dodge, but if you condition them to dodge then it turns into any other match vs a dodge spammer. Sometimes I like to run up and bomb their shield if I think they are going to dodge, bombs wreck shields it will force them to either risk a broken shield or play more offensive, which is what you want.
 
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