- Feb 5, 2008
- Lake Mary, Florida
pretty sure marth can fair a perfectly spaced ftilt
perfectly space utilt should be ok
perfectly space utilt should be ok
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Hit lag: 5
Shield stun: 11
Advantage: -17 or -18
Hit lag: 6
Shield stun: 14
Hit: 6-8, 14-16
Charge frame: 3
Hit lag: 7
Shield stun: 16
Hit lag: 7
Shield stun: 15
Well first of all, when Duck did it, he upB'd IMMEDIATELY out of the WJ. You could barely even catch a glimpse of the WJ; it looked almost as if he'd just upB'd straight out of the tether. Due to this, I actually think he could have landed on the stage if he really needed to, but the main point is that he was in a bad position under a Fox on the ledge. It was a quick, risky mix-up and it netted him Fox's stock.I don't really like grapple walljump into up-B that much... the walljump momentum sends you away from the stage, so your only option is to grab the edge. That means if your opponent happened to do something safe, like get up or ledgehop, then they get a free edgehog. It is certainly faster than any other option, which makes it good against a Fox angling for a shinespike. Just watch out for ledge invincibility...
Pretty much this. It was a Fox. He was liable to be shine spiked if he didn't do that. Something to keep in mind is that both the WJ and upB have invincibility, and I believe the WJ invincibility ties perfectly into the frame 1 upB invincibility.I mean its something you arent doing as a routine recovery. Most of the time you're doing it cuz they have the ledge and you know you will pop up and get attacked so you do it if you think theyre going to attack up. It's the gamble of it all that makes it useful but not something you should do a lot. Ideally, yeah, id prefer to do other things but obviously your opponent forces you to think on your feet.
We should use this opportunity to get inside Sheik's head. I know I definitely need this help.Against Samus you just d-throw uair and never let her come down.
Okay, now the fluff on the Samus matchup. Since you guys like fluff. Samus's game on defense mostly revolves around WD back into normals, shield, and crouch counterattacks. Suffice to say, Samus obviously likes the ground. Fortunately, her ground game sucks vs Sheik. In terms of ground vs. air, Sheik's SH goes over a lot of her stuff when used properly (basically up angle f-tilt / f-smash and u-tilt hit you). And those three options can sometimes be beaten by the sheer priority, speed, and range advantage of Sheik's fair and bair so her efforts often fizzle just because Sheik's moves are literally better. In ground vs. ground, Sheik's ground game is obviously fine vs Samus's ground game if only because Sheik can out-camp her and has an enormous grab that does enormous amounts of damage. Sheik's shield is also very good against Samus's ground stuff, since Samus defends mainly with normals and they can all be grab-punished if not spaced meticulously (and even if it is spaced well, some of it is still punishable). Samus will try to counter this with grabs. However, Samus's grab is bad so you mostly just roll or jump on it if you think she's doing it or knee-jerk react to it. From there, enjoy your free throw.
Because of all these slants in design, Samus is largely a conditioning character and depends on making you tunnel vision on certain options in order to win exchanges in losing matchups. In this one, she's going to try to condition you to jump at certain times so she can out-time you and start combos off her fair and other garbage. This will require grabs on her part since jump is the obvious counter to her grab. If possible, try to find the tell for her grab attempt or recognize when she's in 'grab' mode. If you can discern that, you can avoid getting hit by her for stupid amounts of time simply because shield and proper movement out of it is too good.
I remember seeing Darrel dthrow > nair > Charged Shot a Jiggs before as a rest punish.Darrell does this all the time, it's even better when you weak nair onto a platform, this unlocks utilt and uangled fsmash as well.
You should see my rest punish... before it got removed from Twitch.tv by the guy who it got performed on.I remember seeing Darrel dthrow > nair > Charged Shot a Jiggs before as a rest punish.
Ok, so, cc the nair into dsmash, it's hard for him to approach you, so he'll probably spam thundershocks. Your missiles are better. Try to lay off utilt, fast attacks are best to avoid getting hit by Pika's uair or nair approaches. Treat him like a Fox when he's grounded, and like a Sheik when he's airborne on stage.Does anyone have any advice/ information for the Samus vs Pikachu MU?
Will be added to the Pika section of the Samus Index Thread. Good post.Ok, so, cc the nair into dsmash, it's hard for him to approach you, so he'll probably spam thundershocks. Your missiles are better. Try to lay off utilt, fast attacks are best to avoid getting hit by Pika's uair or nair approaches. Treat him like a Fox when he's grounded, and like a Sheik when he's airborne on stage.
The way I like to edgeguard is to bomb over the edge and utilt to cover the onstage up B timing. If he goes for the sweetspot, he hits the bomb and gets hit by your slightly late utilt, if he goes on stage, the utilt catches him.