Expanding new playstyles.

[PaperstSoapCo]

What I was thinking is what steps do players take to play different? What things are you conscious of that you consider common and what do you feel is the most common part of your game that needs to change?

 

[Bl@ckChris]

i'm relatively new to the competitive scene (i'm learning quickly from ace and the Path of the Gerudo King though), and i find myself addicted to wavelanding. since i'm quite new though, i don't yet have the tech skill to have a play style that i would say is concrete enough to say what needs to change.

The next thing i'm working on is fastfalling my wavelands off platforms. really makes things a lot faster

 

[Renth]

I get into jumping patterns very easily, I always find myself aerial-rejump-aerialing way too much. My grab game is generally poor also in the sense I try to shield grab fox/falco and get anal rammed for it. I spam too much and get into very noticeable patterns.

Playing RockCrock who knows me inside and out helps a lot, he knows how to abuse me for every common mistake I make. I'll get rid of these stupid mental blocks and get better in no time.

 

[RestInPeace]

I get stuck in my shield too often.

 

[-ACE-]

I get into jumping patterns very easily, I always find myself aerial-rejump-aerialing way too much.

Oh boy, me too. I just recently started getting out of patterns in my jumping/spacing techniques. Nowadays I like throwing in some empty shorthop's when I'm at a safe distance to keep my opponent guessing (and less landing lag). Also I think there was a time when I was spamming fair a little too much and my opponents were almost always ready for it.

 

[Doromac]

I'm starting to throw in some wavedashing mindgames. Not a lot of people for me to play with, but I play with this one guy who knows my playstyle really well, so he helps me get out of some of my habits like spamming sh uair and sh bairs. I'm also trying to work in more dash dancing.

 

[Pyrostormer]

I waveland alot.

I get stuck in my shield at times and my jumping patterns can be predictable. **** my shield. I try to only use my shield when completely necessary. I'm also starting to use shorthop wavelands more to keep my style and mindgames fresh.

 

[Doromac]

I've been trying to throw in some more wavelanding, but I don't really have much of a reason to do it, since I don't play with people a lot, and the comp sucks ***. I still practice it though.

 

[Skyshroud]

This thread is listing just about everything I do wrong. I suppose you have to start somewhere though. Right now I'm working on trying to stay more grounded, because going into the air is a big commitment for Ganon, and I hate commitment.

 

[Renth]

This thread is listing just about everything I do wrong. I suppose you have to start somewhere though. Right now I'm working on trying to stay more grounded, because going into the air is a big commitment for Ganon, and I hate commitment.

So do I, that's why I put my last girlfriend on a hot air balloon and sent her to the moon.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

so i guess, from what i'm seeing from more experienced players (ie the rest of you) is that the only way to change is to play somebody that knows the bad habits well enough to counter them?

I'm trying to bribe dr peepee into coming to greensboro more often, but idk if he's taking advantage of my bad habits, or is just plain faster, quicker, and better than me. bet its a combination of both...

 

[Doromac]

So do I, that's why I put my last girlfriend on a hot air balloon and sent her to the moon.

Oh, you evil son-of-a-***** you..

so i guess, from what i'm seeing from more experienced players (ie the rest of you) is that the only way to change is to play somebody that knows the bad habits well enough to counter them?

I'm trying to bribe dr peepee into coming to greensboro more often, but idk if he's taking advantage of my bad habits, or is just plain faster, quicker, and better than me. bet its a combination of both...

Pretty much. If you pay attention to how they punish you, you'll remember not to do that again. Also the person you are playing will point out what you are doing wrong (probably). I get better that way...

 

[TresChikon]

So do I, that's why I put my last girlfriend on a hot air balloon and sent her to the moon.

Now what did the poor ol' moon people ever do to you?

Don't do everything, because everything can be punished.

 

[Doromac]

don't Do Everything, Because Everything Can Be Punished.

:v............

 

[Bl@ckChris]

yeah he usually points out when i DI wrong and stuff, but i never really know how i end up in combos until i'm already dead.

i probably shouldn't do anything, because anything can be punished.

 

[TresChikon]

so i guess, from what i'm seeing from more experienced players (ie the rest of you) is that the only way to change is to play somebody that knows the bad habits well enough to counter them?

I'm trying to bribe dr peepee into coming to greensboro more often, but idk if he's taking advantage of my bad habits, or is just plain faster, quicker, and better than me. bet its a combination of both...

Well there are some bad habits that certain characters can't capitalize on. Like teching away from Puff pretty much guarantees an escape, but could mean otherwise with Fox. So even if the person knows your habits are terrible, they might not be able to punish you for it.

So, aside from just playing, just look at your characters moves and understand its strengths and limitations, it's all intuitive, and is what makes a player good in my eyes.

He's probably not so much a faster player, but a faster thinker. It's because he's so much more aware of his character and his surroundings, which, I believe, should slow down the game in a player's mind.

Uhh... i dunno, i just decided to rant.

Just be aware of what you do, start focusing on one thing and find out why and what makes you do it. It might cost you the match since you might be focusing on one thing too much, but playing to learn is a good mindset during friendlies and whatnot.

You can play to win at tourneys once you're all pro and stuff.

 

[Renth]

RockCrock tortures me, he knows my every move before I even do it. That's not a john, it's not me complaining why I lose to him. It's a fact he's played to the point where he knows me better than I do and he's ****** the habits out of me.

 

[RockCrock]

They call me tha torturaaaaa

 

[ShinigamiMarth]

I don't really chase my opponent past the stage; I usually get KOed for it.

I also need to work on... er... everything? ^_^;;;

 

[Bl@ckChris]

Well there are some bad habits that certain characters can't capitalize on. Like teching away from Puff pretty much guarantees an escape, but could mean otherwise with Fox. So even if the person knows your habits are terrible, they might not be able to punish you for it.

So, aside from just playing, just look at your characters moves and understand its strengths and limitations, it's all intuitive, and is what makes a player good in my eyes.

He's probably not so much a faster player, but a faster thinker. It's because he's so much more aware of his character and his surroundings, which, I believe, should slow down the game in a player's mind.

Uhh... i dunno, i just decided to rant.

Just be aware of what you do, start focusing on one thing and find out why and what makes you do it. It might cost you the match since you might be focusing on one thing too much, but playing to learn is a good mindset during friendlies and whatnot.

You can play to win at tourneys once you're all pro and stuff.

This = useful.

Thank you TresChikon. And yeah my post was kind of a downer, a lot of it is just quicker thinking and realization of surroundings; i never really thought about this facet of the game(surroundings/stage location), but it's actually quite important.

 

[PaperstSoapCo]

so i guess, from what i'm seeing from more experienced players (ie the rest of you) is that the only way to change is to play somebody that knows the bad habits well enough to counter them?

That has to be 100% wrong. Only thing learned in competition that can best be learned 1v1 or 2v2 is the meta game. Not of the world but of your region. That's it. You can only learn how to play the person you play. If you understand what they're doing through knowledge in vids or from playing the game, only thing that matters after that are your reaction times and how accurate and quick you can react. Everything else is just simple mechanical. Learn different players and work around it. Then get your techs up.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

That has to be 100% wrong. Only thing learned in competition that can best be learned 1v1 or 2v2 is the meta game. Not of the world but of your region. That's it. You can only learn how to play the person you play. If you understand what they're doing through knowledge in vids or from playing the game, only thing that matters after that are your reaction times and how accurate and quick you can react. Everything else is just simple mechanical. Learn different players and work around it. Then get your techs up.

So effectively, you're saying that the battle is more internal? it's not necessarily what you're opponent is doing but moreso what you do against it? so the battle isn't even knowing what you're doing wrong, but about doing everything right? And doing everything right consists of having a general knowledge of the game, the characters, and any given situation?

no wonder it's taking more than a month and change...(not that i expected it to be any different)

 

[LoOshKiN]

I found my playstyle changes the more my friends and I call out why we're getting punished and hit. When you hear things, "tech in place some more. Next time I'll F-smash you," or "You know I'm getting really bored of punishing your ledge-hopped down-air, could you do something else," You learn a lot quicker and think to yourself, "oh man, he's right haaha, he's telling me exactly which habit I'm getting ***** for."

It helps a lot when you're not the only one asking yourself questions and focusing. Eventually I learned to stop teching in place out of habit, and my ledge tricks are still getting a bit more diverse.

I also recalled a MM I had (the entire set was my Ganon vs my oppenent's Samus) where I kept getting hit out of ledge-hops. Sveet, my oppenent, said that he noticed I never do anything from the edge the moment I grab it, I always stalled for a bit.

Really, imo, getting a new playstyle is done in 2 parts:
1. Asking yourself what will work better than your current style
2. Actually employing that playstyle.

Most of the time I found the 1st step much easier than the 2nd, but that's my personal situation.

 

[TresChikon]

So effectively, you're saying that the battle is more internal? it's not necessarily what you're opponent is doing but moreso what you do against it? so the battle isn't even knowing what you're doing wrong, but about doing everything right? And doing everything right consists of having a general knowledge of the game, the characters, and any given situation?

no wonder it's taking more than a month and change...(not that i expected it to be any different)

There's not really right or wrong, it's just how adaptable are you. You can play against a decent player and eventually **** him, but lose to different play styles since you're unexposed.

Understanding the metagame is just how quickly and effectively you can adjust to a different play style. By playing lots of people, decent or excellent, you're bound to see something new, and find your own way to beat it.

There is no best playstyle, just the person who can adapt the best is usually the winner.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

hmm, so one could argue that the "best" playstyle is the one hardest to adapt to. it would be so much fun to have a repertoire of stored playstyles just to keep my opponent guessing all the time. I'd be like a baseball pitcher with a multitude of pitches.

Lame analogy, but i have a feeling the effect could work...maybe. I could just be thinking too hard though...

 

[TresChikon]

hmm, so one could argue that the "best" playstyle is the one hardest to adapt to.

Hmm... I think that's what makes a top tier a top tier. Cool observation.

 

[Spamzfair]

What I was thinking is what steps do players take to play different? What things are you conscious of that you consider common and what do you feel is the most common part of your game that needs to change?

I dont z grab at all..I rely on clicking shield and A at perfect times to grab lol. And my prefered approach is dair..and thats how i tech chase..dair, and that is imo One of the most predicatable and easily punishable approachs even with perfect L canceling (coming from someone who doesnt wavedash with ganon..and cant find a way to put dash dancing in his game play)

 

[spider_sense]

I dont z grab at all..I rely on clicking shield and A at perfect times to grab lol. And my prefered approach is dair..and thats how i tech chase..dair, and that is imo One of the most predicatable and easily punishable approachs even with perfect L canceling (coming from someone who doesnt wavedash with ganon..and cant find a way to put dash dancing in his game play)

lol You might wanna get into the habit of using Z to grab, because I'm pretty sure it's kinda hard grab someone when your shield comes up unexpectedly, if you wanna expand it press Y and Z at the same time to JC grab. I pretty much do it 95% of the time.

 

[Renth]

lol You might wanna get into the habit of using Z to grab, because I'm pretty sure it's kinda hard grab someone when your shield comes up unexpectedly, if you wanna expand it press Y and Z at the same time to JC grab. I pretty much do it 95% of the time.

We're just now going over JC grabs!? where are we 2005!?

 

[Deleted member]

if you're 2006 you'd know that you don't want to do JC grabs with peach or zelda! or sheik during a CG!

*kills self*