EVO RULESET ANNOUNCED. The ruleset has been updated!

[Shibby]

Wow this rule set is so pro.

MLG needs to take over ...

 

[MechaJesus]

A person made a hacked map creator for Starcraft and a map called "Fastest Map Possible" was created. You can't go pro in it, but there is a HUGE community, some leagues for it, and it is very competitive. IMO it made something about SC better, so I have no problem with it.

FASTEST BGH MONEY MAP $$$$$$$$$ is the worst thing ever to happen to the Starcraft gaming scene. It absolutely ****s on all the intricate gameplay mechanics that the game has.

The problem is that the hacks are usually bad.

 

[PozerWolf]

Ok, this isn't an insult, this is just a request. Name some fighting games that have random items spawns and levels that randomly kill you. Name ONE and I'll go away.

Done it many times.
Every time I post about other fighting games and how they work, you guys tend to blow it off no matter how much sense it makes.

And yes, I'm more than sure you've seen my post informing the issues on random elements of other games.

It has been done to death, and anyone who argues otherwise just does not know better.

In the end, we hit a conclusion:
Smash players don't know anything about fighting games or what makes a game competitive.

All fighting games have random elements.
Whether or not you can see it... well... thats up to you in trying to figure out how the game truly works.



It's a done argument and the conclusion is as solid as it can be and in general its nothing to argue about whats again if it will all be blown off.

 

[Aesir]

Fact remains there aren't a whole lot of random elements in other fighting games that can turn the tide of a match.

and I sorta find it insulting when I see that. "smashers don't know anything about other fighters" When I could name a good amount of smashers who know quite a bit and even play other fighters.

 

[Emperor Time]

This must be a joke topic.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Done it many times.
Every time I post about other fighting games and how they work, you guys tend to blow it off no matter how much sense it makes.

And yes, I'm more than sure you've seen my post informing the issues on random elements of other games.

It has been done to death, and anyone who argues otherwise just does not know better.

In the end, we hit a conclusion:
Smash players don't know anything about fighting games or what makes a game competitive.

All fighting games have random elements.
Whether or not you can see it... well... thats up to you in trying to figure out how the game truly works.



It's a done argument and the conclusion is as solid as it can be and in general its nothing to argue about whats again if it will all be blown off.

I didn't ask you to if other fighting games have random elements I asked you to name one game that had levels that randomly kill you and random item spawns. Still waiting.

 

[~^.NoiR.^~]

FASTEST BGH MONEY MAP $$$$$$$$$ is the worst thing ever to happen to the Starcraft gaming scene. It absolutely ****s on all the intricate gameplay mechanics that the game has.

The problem is that the hacks are usually bad.

Your joking right? BGH players had a tournament against NON $ pros and the non $ pros LOST LOL. It didn't "RUIN" it at all. The pros still did what they did and still made their money. I played SC as much as m2k played smash man. I know Starcraft...

I wasn't agreeing that some hacks aren't bad, but thats not to say that all hacking is bad. Not at all. I was just using SC as an example that hacks CAN be good, as long as it doesn't ruin the game. FMP AND BGH did not ruin Starcraft -.-

 

[MarthTrinity]

Why not do it now? We should make banners to mock all of SRK's bad ban choices.

Spoiler

There's one XD

 

[PozerWolf]

Fact remains there aren't a whole lot of random elements in other fighting games that can turn the tide of a match.

Wrong.

Don't know whats wrong? Read my post above yours.



It's done.

 

[MechaJesus]

Your joking right? BGH players had a tournament against NON $ pros and the non $ pros LOST LOL. It didn't "RUIN" it at all. The pros still did what they did and still made their money. I played SC as much as m2k played smash man. I know Starcraft...

I wasn't agreeing that some hacks aren't bad, but thats not to say that all hacking is bad. Not at all. I was just using SC as an example that hacks CAN be good, as long as it doesn't ruin the game. FMP AND BGH did not ruin Starcraft -.-

All the best players play the non-money maps.

BGH removes all the **** that was strategically interesting from Starcraft. Asymmetrical but balanced starting points? The need to expand for more resources? The need to defend territory? Strategically interesting terrain? Dynamic economy management? None of that **** is in BGH.

I'm not saying there aren't BGH players that aren't good. I'm just saying that the non-money maps are where the best players play, and the most stragetically interesting way to play.

EDIT: Nevermind, I don't really want to debate this here. Non-BGH is the way to play Starcraft, and the way most of the pros do it. It's a much more interesting game.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Spoiler

There's one XD

I love you <3

 

[SamuraiPanda]

Done it many times.
Every time I post about other fighting games and how they work, you guys tend to blow it off no matter how much sense it makes.

And yes, I'm more than sure you've seen my post informing the issues on random elements of other games.

It has been done to death, and anyone who argues otherwise just does not know better.

In the end, we hit a conclusion:
Smash players don't know anything about fighting games or what makes a game competitive.

All fighting games have random elements.
Whether or not you can see it... well... thats up to you in trying to figure out how the game truly works.



It's a done argument and the conclusion is as solid as it can be and in general its nothing to argue about whats again if it will all be blown off.

Do it. Right here, right now. Prove us wrong. Prove the SBR wrong. Prove the entire smash community wrong. Prove that you know our game better than we do after our years of experience and your years of shunning it.

I've played every fighting game in Evo, ever. I've played some that haven't made it yet, some that won't make it, and the newest releases in Japan. I am a huge 2d fighter buff. And you're pulling things out of thin air that aren't true at all.

And if you honestly take me up on this, forgive me if I don't respond for some time. I'm taking the MCAT in 2 weeks, and I need to return to studying now.

 

[MarthTrinity]

I love you <3

What can I say? I try

 

[~^.NoiR.^~]

All the best players play the non-money maps.

BGH removes all the **** that was strategically interesting from Starcraft. Asymmetrical but balanced starting points? The need to expand for more resources? The need to defend territory? Strategically interesting terrain? Dynamic economy management? None of that **** is in BGH.

I'm not saying there aren't BGH players that aren't good. I'm just saying that the non-money maps are where the best players play, and the most stragetically interesting way to play.

EDIT: Nevermind, I don't really want to debate this here. Non-BGH is the way to play Starcraft, and the way most of the pros do it. It's a much more interesting game.

I agree that non$ is best. I love non$ more than any other map, but it is obvious you are ignorant of the other 2 maps, so I'm not going to argue it with you.

 

[Demon Kirby]

Spoiler

There's one XD

 

[MarthTrinity]

...I have been bested.

 

[MajinSweet]

Done it many times.
Every time I post about other fighting games and how they work, you guys tend to blow it off no matter how much sense it makes.

And yes, I'm more than sure you've seen my post informing the issues on random elements of other games.

It has been done to death, and anyone who argues otherwise just does not know better.

In the end, we hit a conclusion:
Smash players don't know anything about fighting games or what makes a game competitive.

All fighting games have random elements.
Whether or not you can see it... well... thats up to you in trying to figure out how the game truly works.



It's a done argument and the conclusion is as solid as it can be and in general its nothing to argue about whats again if it will all be blown off.

There are random elements in pretty much every game made now a days, the point is--random elements in smash can change the entire out come of a match in an instant. And its happened in the past, and thats why we don't use items anymore. What other fighter has random elements THAT powerful? A random element that can give a player a win he didn't earn? Its true that Smash isn't like other fighting games, it needs to be handled differently. Turning off items isn't even like a normal ban in other fighters. The game has a built in feature to turn them off, its not like were going outside the game and telling people not to use a character because he is too good. The only thing you can argue would be stages, and the game even lets you turn those off in random selection. Smash was designed to let the people playing decide what suits them best. The smash community over the many years has come to the conclusion that items detract from the competitive environment, and if you played the game as long as we have--you would probably reach the very same conclusion.

 

[doodmahn]

All the best players play the non-money maps.

BGH removes all the **** that was strategically interesting from Starcraft. Asymmetrical but balanced starting points? The need to expand for more resources? The need to defend territory? Strategically interesting terrain? Dynamic economy management? None of that **** is in BGH.

I'm not saying there aren't BGH players that aren't good. I'm just saying that the non-money maps are where the best players play, and the most stragetically interesting way to play.

EDIT: Nevermind, I don't really want to debate this here. Non-BGH is the way to play Starcraft, and the way most of the pros do it. It's a much more interesting game.

There is no ONE way to play a game. That's the thing that the Casuals say about items. (They say that itens are the way to play the game, and that Competitive gamers are stripping Brawl down.)

Wrong.

Don't know whats wrong? Read my post above yours.



It's done.

If you're just going to troll, GTFO of our forums. All you are doing is spitting in our faces with your arrogant, ignorant, and frankly stupid "points" that are really just insults.

 

[Ignatius]

...I have been bested.

You... act like it's hard to avoid the fish.

 

[MarthTrinity]

You... act like it's hard to avoid the fish.

No XD it's not hard, he just had a better fish image than myself.

 

[Aesir]

Wrong.

Don't know whats wrong? Read my post above yours.



It's done.

You didn't say anything other then "I'm right" usually when you say that you give reasons to back yourself up.

So like reaper who posted after me said. "prove it" then do it.

You're the one making the claim that other fighting games have elements just as bad as smash. Do it then, prove it to us thats your job when you make the claim burden of proof is on you.

 

[h1roshi]

is this ruleset real?

-hiro

 

[S2]

Done it many times.
I'm more than sure you've seen my post informing the issues on random elements of other games.

It has been done to death, and anyone who argues otherwise just does not know better.

In the end, we hit a conclusion:
Smash players don't know anything about fighting games or what makes a game competitive.

All fighting games have random elements.
Whether or not you can see it... well... thats up to you in trying to figure out how the game truly works.

It's a done argument and the conclusion is as solid as it can be and in general its nothing to argue about whats again if it will all be blown off.

1.) What exactly is your conclusion about randomness? Because it's not obvious and if people aren't accepting it, that really doesn't validate it.

2.) Smash players not understanding fighting games is a broad statement. You just immediately discount tournament smashers who also play other fighting games and understand the general mechanics of the high level play in other fighters.

Just so you know, every single tournament level smasher I know plays another game at high level. Whether it's another fighting game, a shooter, or an RTS.

Don't generalize that some Smashers don't understand mechanics of other games just so you can discredit their beliefs.

3.) Define what your constituting as "random". That word can be used for such a broad variety of things.

There's strategically fundemental differences between different "random" elements. Something like Spear Pillar's game altering effects are literally completely random and out of the players control. You can't choose what pokemon is there or what moves they use.

That's a lot different than say, Peach's turnips or DDD's minion throw. Both of which are essentially gambling techniques. Yet, the randomness here is different because the player can choose when/how much to use the move, understand the percentages for each outcome, and weigh when/if it's strategically viable to use those moves.

While a player can get lucky and repeatedly get the outcome they want (or vice-versa), there is still a degree of skill, knowledge, and strategy when using these types of moves.

There aren't people up in arms about these moves or the "random" elements they have. It's true that other fighting games have similar types of moves. Take Faust's super-move in Guilty Gear X2 (forgetting the name), the one that has a percentage chance of backfiring on him. Yes, its a random element. But the player has some strategy invovled because it's up to the player to determine whether it's worth the risk when an opportunity to land the move comes up. The move can't backfire if the player never uses it, it's up to the player's discretion whether they want to use the risk. The backfire percentages are known.

I ask to define what you mean as random, because it's not simply whether something is random... but how it's random and to what degree the randomness affects the game.

 

[Eggm]

Ye thats why I am hoping any pros like m2k, azen, chillin or any pro or semi pro don't go. It would start up so much **** if a pro lost to some scrub because he had a bat.

It could happen but its more likely they will still place high.

Ya know, IIRC, Korean DJ won the Brawl tournament (Nintendo's I think) that had items on. I'm sure pros will go, dominate, and place, but it doesn't mean they'll enjoy it as much ^_^'' I think most people agree that SWF users will likely take the highest places in Evo.

Not to mention 6 out of the top 8 at the gamestop tournament finals in cali were from smashboards and decent smashers. Despite random rules and items and stuff.

is this ruleset real?

-hiro

is it? If so Lmao thats crazy.

 

[Grunt]

Am i in a cave? There must be a thousand Trolls here.

 

[MechaJesus]

I hate it when people say **** like "Over many years of debating the whole Smash community came to the conclusion that items are bad in a competitive environment."

Brawl is an entirely different game. Everything deserves re-consideration.

 

[Aesir]

They were reconsidered the same conclusion was made. At least in the backroom it was.

 

[RDK]

I hate it when people say **** like "Over many years of debating the whole Smash community came to the conclusion that items are bad in a competitive environment."

Brawl is an entirely different game. Everything deserves re-consideration.

It has been reconsidered a million times.

Like it's been stated before: there's nothing inherently wrong with items (besides being stupid and annoying, IMO), but there IS something wrong with the random factor that is brought about by randomly spawning items.

If items in Brawl were like items in Halo or Quake, wherein they don't randomly spawn and always appear in the same places on the map, then there wouldn't be half as much of a problem.

 

[MechaJesus]

I'm not stupid enough to say it's never been considered at all; but I'm just saying that Brawl is still a new game, and still a young game. Our perception of it will probably change as it gets older.

 

[RDK]

I'm not stupid enough to say it's never been considered at all; but I'm just saying that Brawl is still a new game, and still a young game. Our perception of it will probably change as it gets older.

Of course our perception of it will change as it gets older, but that's no reason to throw 7+ years of Smash knowledge and experience out the window simply because it's a new game.

There's no reason to say that items should be legitimately used in tournaments right now. State one compelling argument for items in tournaments that hasn't already been destroyed by logic, and I'll change my mind.

 

[Sinz]

Wow, I must say I am actually pretty disappointed. This ruleset is kinda sad.
I have done tons of testing with items. around 50 hours. And I had fun but it ruined the strategic element to the game. Since the ruleset is in its beta stages that means it can and will change.

1.) The items do need to be off. In my testing they didn't just randomly appear, they just appeared and would mold the fight so much. I played against a Sonic that all he did was stay away from me and just get a smash ball to win the game. Where is the skill in that? There is none.

Also, the items they do have on are really overpowered. Turning off pokeballs was funny when they left on the golden hammer. These overall effect the game very oddly. If they turned off the smash balls and hammers, and the overpowered items it would probably be alright. However, I am still against the items, and will always be. They take out the biggest strategic element to the game. Prediction. Some of you may argue with this, but if you can be predicted easily you will probably lose.

Some people may say that turning off items may change the game. Yeah the game was made so you could choose to play with items or with out. That is one big thing right there. You have a choice. In some sense yeah your changing the game, because in one player all of the items are on, pretty much. But, the thing is this is multiplayer. Multiplayer is another whole type of game right there. It is very different from one player. You are playing against things that can think. And distorting those thoughts is very important. But here is the question, should it be up to the game to distort the other players plan or should it be up to his opponent?

2.)The fact that there are so few banned stages is shocking. Many stages can be played around but some can just be played to win. A D3 on bridge of eldin is busted. Someone going to Icice summit is just odd to me. The camping on that stage is actually kinda ridiculous. Snake can pressure the other characters down to the fish pretty easily. Don't even get started with falco and his meteor. Also, infinite bairs on 75m wih so many characters is kinda funny.

3.) They only banned stalling? What is going on right there? With hardly any banstages infinite become so much easier to do. I don't think I really need to go indepth on this one.

They did go indepth on what stalling was, just something that doesn't help the match progress. So camping becomes soo much better.

4.) The counterpicking rule is ... interesting. That is what I thought at first. However, that changed when I started thinking about it. What stage will it be if the loser changes character? I believe this question has already been brought up numerous times, however I still do not know the answer.

I do like the fact the winner cannot change their character. This has to make you know who your characters counterpicks are and how to play against them. I do support that part. The loser should be able to choose both their character and the stage.

5.) The stocks are odd. So is the time limit. Two stocks is too short as well with the time limit. I personally am for three stocks and eight minutes. Three stocks seems to be the best number for stocks at the pace of brawl. It allows for good length and great games. The eight minutes makes it harder for the stall campers to win the game just by running away and throwing. It gives time to the agressive players to win, and it gives the stocks to the control players to win. I think that it works best overall.

Also, three out of five is good for the short games, but two out of three is better for the longer games.

6.) Anyone notice there are no teams rules?

This ruleset makes the game more about whoever wins game one wins the set. This is turning more into a game of countering characters than countering players.

Just my two cents.

my ruleset for reference.

Singles


3 stock
8 min time limit

Dave's Stupid Rule
Stage cannot be selected if you've won on it during that set however if both players agree they may return to that stage.


Slob Picks

The loser may choose the next stage or elect to go random, then the winner may change characters, and then the loser may change characters.

Neutral Stages: Battlefield, Final Destination, Yoshi's Island, Lylat Cruise, Smashville

Counter Pick: Halberd, Pokemon Stadium,Delfino Plaza, Luigi's Mansion, Norfair, Pirate Ship, Frigate Orpheon, Castle Siege, Pokemon Stadium 2, Port Aero Town, Distant Planet, Pictochat, Hanenbow, Green Hil Zone, Old Yoshi's Island, Jungle Japes, Corneria, Rainbow Cruise, Green Greens, Brinstar

Banned Stages: Big Blue, Mushroomy Kingdom, Mario Circuit, Rumble Falls, Bridge of Eldin, Spear Pillar, Wario Ware, New Pork City, Icicle Summit, Skyworld, 75m, Super Mario Bros. Flat Zone 2, Shadow Moses Island, Hyrule Temple, Onett, Custom Stages
Items: None
Teams

3 Stock

8 min time limit

Friendly Fire - On

Neutral Stages: Battlefield, Final Destination, Yoshi's Island, Halbred, Lylat Cruise, Smashville, Delfino Plaza,

Counter Pick: Luigi's Mansion, Mario Circuit, Norfair, Pirate Ship, Orpheon Frigate, Pokemon Stadium, Pokemon Stadium 2, Port Aero Town, Pictochat, Hanenbow, Green Hill Zone, Old Yoshi's Island, Jungle Japes, Corneria, Rainbow Cruise, Green Greens, Brinstar, Bridge of Eldin, Castle Siege

Banned Stages: Big Blue, Mushroomy Kingdom, Rumble Falls, Spear Pillar, Wario Ware, New Pork City, Icicle Summit, Skyworld, 75m, Super Mario Bros. Flat Zone 2, Shadow Moses Island, Hyrule Temple, Onett, Custom Stages, Distant Planet

Dave's Stupid Rule
Stage cannot be selected if you've won on it during that set. However if both players agree they can return to that stage.

Slob Picks

The loser may choose the next stage or elect to go random, then the winner may change characters, and then the loser may change characters.

 

[MiraiGen]

I don't see any changes to happen in any amount of time with Brawl that will ever make the Home Run Bat or Smash Ball or any other bat**** insane item legitimate for Brawl.

And guys, seriously:

Smash players don't know anything about fighting games or what makes a game competitive.

He literally fastballs you the most flame-baiting statement to ever grace the internet (Which basically insults everyone on this forum simultaneously) and you guys are still responding to him?

Come on, the dude's either a 2d fighter snob who came to act like he knew better about fighting games than you, or he's some 14 year old who took a break from the ol' sock and "Sent Faxes" folder to come act like he's intelligent. Don't even give him the time of day.

 

[WuTangDude]

I'm not stupid enough to say it's never been considered at all; but I'm just saying that Brawl is still a new game, and still a young game. Our perception of it will probably change as it gets older.

You're kidding....

Items are random. Random, random, random, it's the key thing you wnat to have avoided in a competitive enviroment. The items that spawn are random, where they spawn is random. It takes out the reason this game still have a shot at a competitive field.

That doesn't mean items are bad or not fun; they're just not meant for tourneys.

 

[Chagen46]

Hey Kids, Lets learn something!

Panda edit: Yes, lets learn that this guy doesn't know how to post.

 

[arrowhead]

Hey Kids, Lets learn something!



BRAWL'S MADE OF FAIL.

fix'd

10brawlsucks

 

[Sir Bedevere]

This thread is going to get closed with the massive amount of trolling going around. >_>

 

[doodmahn]

I don't see any changes to happen in any amount of time with Brawl that will ever make the Home Run Bat or Smash Ball or any other bat**** insane item legitimate for Brawl.

And guys, seriously:

He literally fastballs you the most flame-baiting statement to ever grace the internet (Which basically insults everyone on this forum simultaneously) and you guys are still responding to him?

Come on, the dude's either a 2d fighter snob who came to act like he knew better about fighting games than you, or he's some 14 year old who took a break from the ol' sock and "Sent Faxes" folder to come act like he's intelligent. Don't even give him the time of day.

I'm 14. But yeah, this guy is a troll.

 

[Wind Owl]

Wow, why is this thread open?

 

[metaXzero]

LOL! Another n00b making fail comments.

Will this madness ever cease? (Yes this thread is reduced to flaming).

 

[RDK]

SRK's claim to know anything about competitive fighters is automatically cancelled out by this horrific moveset. I can't even look at it without my eyes bleeding.