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Evo Lineup Reveal Jan. 8th

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TheCrimsonBlur

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Not to get anyone's hopes up but...

http://shoryuken.com/2013/01/04/egg...oshi-combo-and-highlight-video-by-v3ctor-man/

Interesting, in regards to the timing.

Not a staff member promoting the video, but seeing something interesting about Smash on the front page...that happens to be in a positive light...Maybe the Mayans were right?
A positive article about Smash on SRK?!

One that doesn't lump Melee and Brawl together?

Whhaaaaat

Maybe that poll did have a purpose after all.
 

ph00tbag

C(ϾᶘϿ)Ͻ
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To put things in perspective, though, the Evo Championship Series has a lot of the same hurdles with including smash that MLG had. Streaming Smash is Ringling Brothers' Circus of legal hoops to jump through, most too small for a large brand like Evo to fit through, because Nintendo has a lot of brand concerns with showcasing Smash as a serious platform fighter (go figure).

Given this, I don't think it's likely Melee will make a showing. It's not because the FGC doesn't like us. In reality, the majority of the FGC is as anxious to bury the hatchet as the majority of the Smash community is. But even upon resolving these perceived differences, you still have to tackle the obstacle of Nintendo being largely obstructionist wrt. promoting competitive Smash tournaments.
 

Lawlb0t

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To put things in perspective, though, the Evo Championship Series has a lot of the same hurdles with including smash that MLG had. Streaming Smash is Ringling Brothers' Circus of legal hoops to jump through, most too small for a large brand like Evo to fit through, because Nintendo has a lot of brand concerns with showcasing Smash as a serious platform fighter (go figure).

Given this, I don't think it's likely Melee will make a showing. It's not because the FGC doesn't like us. In reality, the majority of the FGC is as anxious to bury the hatchet as the majority of the Smash community is. But even upon resolving these perceived differences, you still have to tackle the obstacle of Nintendo being largely obstructionist wrt. promoting competitive Smash tournaments.
Yes, this is one of the biggest reasons. Nintendo/HAL tried to kill Melee with Brawl. So it's unlikely they will allow commercial licenses for professional SSBM tournaments. But I haven't looked at it completely because commercial licensing of computer software for professional tournaments is a new thing. Games were released without the thought of this and now things like Starcraft 2 were released with that in mind.
 

Bones0

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Idk, I think Melee's old enough that Nintendo doesn't care. I'm not sure I even entirely buy MLG not being allowed to stream barlw. I just don't see how Nintendo has any power over that. Individuals stream and record Melee videos FOR PROFIT VIA AD REVENUE all the time. I also believe Apex (at least this year) will qualify as a business because Alex said something about how he has an actual business set up for perks such as getting Visas. On top of all of this, I doubt Nintendo would do anything even if they don't want this kind of publicity. The press they'd get from suing certainly doesn't seem worth it. Maybe the creators of Project: M should try selling copies so that Nintendo threatens with a law suit and they get mad press coverage so more people try out the game. :troll:

Vectorman... single-handedly bringing Melee to Evo?! :O
 

Mr.Jackpot

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To put things in perspective, though, the Evo Championship Series has a lot of the same hurdles with including smash that MLG had. Streaming Smash is Ringling Brothers' Circus of legal hoops to jump through, most too small for a large brand like Evo to fit through, because Nintendo has a lot of brand concerns with showcasing Smash as a serious platform fighter (go figure).

Given this, I don't think it's likely Melee will make a showing. It's not because the FGC doesn't like us. In reality, the majority of the FGC is as anxious to bury the hatchet as the majority of the Smash community is. But even upon resolving these perceived differences, you still have to tackle the obstacle of Nintendo being largely obstructionist wrt. promoting competitive Smash tournaments.
EVO 07, EVO 08, and MLG all did just fine with competitive Smash. It's happened before and it can happen again.
 

Landry

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Just for clarification -

I'm pretty sure that Nintendo's problem with MLG streaming Brawl was that MLG sells a "premium" version of their stream that is like 720p or something. In that case MLG would be directly profiting off of streaming Nintendo's intellectual property.

I think that just streaming for free and making money from ad revenue or whatever is something Nintendo can't stop/doesn't care about. Not that this necessarily makes much of a difference. The stigma around Nintendo and streaming might be enough to keep Evo away from Melee.
 

Strong Badam

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btw nintendo didn't "prevent" MLG from streaming; it's MLGs policy to get written permission to stream the game, and nintendo simply didn't respond. it wouldn't be problematic if EVO streamed melee just as it isn't for APEX to do so.
 

LivewiresXe

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I think the issues with Smash nowadays is that they would have to bring in entirely new consoles and monitors/tvs that no other game would be using and therefore use an entirely different kind of stream equipment. With his it is now, they can just run everything fine on PS3 and not have to worry. Also, with EVO 2007 and 2008, those were before the big influx of HD gaming that we see nowadays even though the 360 and PS3 were around then too, so they could just switch monitors, etc.
 

♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡

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I see a lot of positive in what has already happened, I'm sure we've made quite an impact with the poll to say at least. We have had two tournaments where the community has received exposure so we can't say we've been ignored. No community is perfect but at least we've made clear that we are still here, alive and kicking, and that's something. I really hope Melee will be at EVO and I believe it might well be there, no reason to be pessimistic about the issue, realistic yes but not pessimistic.

Sometimes dreams come true



Melee sucks, Imma go play Project M now byebye

jk
 

luzbwl

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That was a side tournament not related to the evo official line up. It just happens that the game itself is a legend and the cannons let them be on stage
 

LivewiresXe

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It should also be worth noting that on SRK, Mr.Wizard himself stated that (I forget which) they either donated all of their Wii's and CRT TVs to charity, or that they sold them and gave the money to a nearby charity. Either way, he confirmed they don't have either anymore.
 

Krynxe

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Well the best part of that SRK article is the fact that they clarified that Yoshi is a low tier

People will see vman and be like

"woah yoshi is ****, how is he low tier?"

Go watch some more videos to fathom how other characters are so much better

Starts seeing what melee is really about
 

Juggleguy

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I think we have a shot at being included as a "Tournament of Legends" event, or whatever they call it at EVO these days. I remain pessimistic about our chances as a main game.
 

michael_li

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mr wizard = the guy who ultimately decides to have which game in case u guys dont know.

he apparently watched m2k vs unknown when they split and tweeted anyone who splits pot is a douche bag.

BAD ImPression

he also sais before that even if melee makes it to evo it will NOt i repeat NOT, a MAINSTAGE game as in it will be a side event

so dont get ur hopes up cuz mr wizard doesnt like us :(

:phone:
 

LivewiresXe

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I think we have a shot at being included as a "Tournament of Legends" event, or whatever they call it at EVO these days. I remain pessimistic about our chances as a main game.

A lot of people are thinking that with the likelihood of a new Darkstalkers game coming out, that Dalkstalkers will be the "Tournament of Legends" game. And yeah, Wiz was watching the tournament M2K vs Unknown happened at (I want to say ROM, but I'm not 100% sure) to partly get an impression on how it is and all that.
 

Anth0ny

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it's not gonna happen

crts/gamecubes for one game when everything else is running on lcds/ps3s is the killer

but the "vote for melee" thread was fun
 

rawrimamonster

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The problem as I see it with the FGC and smash is that they make the mistake of assuming brawl is the face of smash. Their brains are trained from the fighters they play to assume the "newest version" is the most balanced and main deal. This unfortunately isn't the case with smash as brawl was a HUGE step down and pretty much a cockslap right in the face of the competitive community. They see brawls floating and "chess" like gameplay and assume it's unhype and not worth their time, and in their defense they're right in one aspect, WATCHING brawl is like watching paint dry, it's boring as ****. :glare:

The fact that the melee community got to be a part of that fighterpedia video was big for us, and it allowed us a chance to correct out image. Unfortunately that probably wasn't enough considering that even Sakurai himself has at times gone out of his way to say that he doesn't want smash played competitively and not to mention Nintendo's increasing casual pandering. Though when faced with that it can always be cited that SF was never meant to be competitive but like with that community, and all dedicated communities to a certain game/s WE make the game what it is, not the developers.
 

KanyeRest

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The problem as I see it with the FGC and smash is that they make the mistake of assuming brawl is the face of smash. Their brains are trained from the fighters they play to assume the "newest version" is the most balanced and main deal. This unfortunately isn't the case with smash as brawl was a HUGE step down and pretty much a cockslap right in the face of the competitive community. They see brawls floating and "chess" like gameplay and assume it's unhype and not worth their time, and in their defense they're right in one aspect, WATCHING brawl is like watching paint dry, it's boring as ****. :glare:

The fact that the melee community got to be a part of that fighterpedia video was big for us, and it allowed us a chance to correct out image. Unfortunately that probably wasn't enough considering that even Sakurai himself has at times gone out of his way to say that he doesn't want smash played competitively and not to mention Nintendo's increasing casual pandering. Though when faced with that it can always be cited that SF was never meant to be competitive but like with that community, and all dedicated communities to a certain game/s WE make the game what it is, not the developers.
you realize that a lot of top players of current fighting games prefer older games? FGC members don't usually feel that way, i.e. people preferring mvc2 to mvc3 if they've played both games. they're definitely not trained to believe newer is better, and most would definitely rather watch melee if given the option.
 

zmx

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The problem as I see it with the FGC and smash is that they make the mistake of assuming brawl is the face of smash. Their brains are trained from the fighters they play to assume the "newest version" is the most balanced and main deal. This unfortunately isn't the case with smash as brawl was a HUGE step down and pretty much a cockslap right in the face of the competitive community. They see brawls floating and "chess" like gameplay and assume it's unhype and not worth their time, and in their defense they're right in one aspect, WATCHING brawl is like watching paint dry, it's boring as ****. :glare:

The fact that the melee community got to be a part of that fighterpedia video was big for us, and it allowed us a chance to correct out image. Unfortunately that probably wasn't enough considering that even Sakurai himself has at times gone out of his way to say that he doesn't want smash played competitively and not to mention Nintendo's increasing casual pandering. Though when faced with that it can always be cited that SF was never meant to be competitive but like with that community, and all dedicated communities to a certain game/s WE make the game what it is, not the developers.
On one hand you say that even SF was never meant to be competiitve and ultimately a game is what the fans want it to be, not the devs which is 100% true. On the other hand in the paragraph before you dismiss Brawl for this very reason, because you think it's not intended to be competitive and is unhype. This is hypocritical.

If you think every Brawl set ever is boring to watch you either haven't been watching the right sets or are so narrow minded (like a lot of Melee only fans unfortunately) you have trained yourself to say pink is blue no matter what.

And before you give some random example of a boring match and try to say every Brawl match is like it, I'll point out that anyone can do this for any game. For example: Melee Apex 2012 GFs. With all the talk of Brawl being too slow and campy, I must say I have yet to see a Brawl set as long as that one. But it happened in Melee so it's okay right?

For the record I like Brawl and Melee. And I started with Brawl first. I can see both having strengths and weaknesses for competitive play, I'll even go far as to say that Melee seems better in that regard. But dismissing every Brawl set ever as unwatchable is idiotic.

It's funny because the only thing casuals can understand about high level play in fighting games is ZOMG COMBOZ. If that's all you care about, you aren't too different from those that you mock. That's not to say Brawl doesn't have true combos, it just has less combo potential than Melee for obvious reasons.

Also, right now , the Brawl scene is more hype and it has nothing to do with gameplay. In Melee it's always the same 4 people coming out on top and the same matchups being played over and over. Brawl has far more active strong regions and as a result, a lot more than 4 people have shot at taking Apex this year which is more stacked than ever. This keeps it dynamic and interesting.
 

Landry

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It's not really lack of hype. Brawls lack of depth is obvious.

:phone:
This. Melee can be campy, but that's not necessarily a problem. Even campy Melee can be interesting.

Brawl is campy, but the problem is that it lacks options on a basic level which makes it boring. This is the difference, imo.
 

zmx

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This. Melee can be campy, but that's not necessarily a problem. Even campy Melee can be interesting.

Brawl is campy, but the problem is that it lacks options on a basic level which makes it boring. This is the difference, imo.
What options are you talking about? I'll bite. inb4ignorance

Btw certain characters like Link camp very similarly in both games, in fact in Brawl he has more options. His zair is actually useful. You have more control over items etc.
 

Rockenos

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What options are you talking about? I'll bite. inb4ignorance

Btw certain characters like Link camp very similarly in both games, in fact in Brawl he has more options. His zair is actually useful. You have more control over items etc.
Wavedashing comes to mind lol
I'm told there's a whole slew of tricks that can be done in Melee
Like if you do a jump before you grab but not too long before the grab you cancel the jump and do a grab with less lag or something.
I think it's called a "wavejumphop cancel"
 

Vkrm

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For me personally combos have never equated to hype. It's always the subtle things that get me hype. Im more impressed by intelligent decision making than techskill. I consider brawl to be the least hype just because there are less tricks and factors to abuse. It's like, I want to outplay my opponent by out thinking him instead of abusing a percent lead and timing people out. Playing like a *** in melee is effective, but the chess us still there because catching somebody who turtles is an entirely different task when there's so many mobility options.

:phone:
 

Bones0

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On one hand you say that even SF was never meant to be competiitve and ultimately a game is what the fans want it to be, not the devs which is 100% true. On the other hand in the paragraph before you dismiss Brawl for this very reason, because you think it's not intended to be competitive and is unhype. This is hypocritical.
Not being meant to be competitive is one thing, but Sakurai INTENTIONALLY sabotaged barlw to make it unplayable in a competitive environment. Why do you think they slowed everything down, made everyone floaty, made recovering retardedly easy, buffed virtually every aspect of dodging/shielding, and removed hitstun (and by consequence, combos and knockdowns)? Oh, and the most painfully obvious example, he made it so players randomly trip for no reason whatsoever.

If you think every Brawl set ever is boring to watch you either haven't been watching the right sets or are so narrow minded (like a lot of Melee only fans unfortunately) you have trained yourself to say pink is blue no matter what.

And before you give some random example of a boring match and try to say every Brawl match is like it, I'll point out that anyone can do this for any game. For example: Melee Apex 2012 GFs. With all the talk of Brawl being too slow and campy, I must say I have yet to see a Brawl set as long as that one. But it happened in Melee so it's okay right?
I've tried to watch a lot of barlw matches, and it's always been pretty boring. I'm sure there's a lot of nuance that goes into some of the decision making, but as far as entertainment factor goes, it has nothing going for it. There are no creative combos or followups, no crazy deceptive movement, no quick comebacks or 4 stocks of pure destruction. Does barlw have threads dedicated to amazing matches/combos? I'd be interested in seeing what barlw's most epic match looks like. It's funny people try to point to Hbox vs. Armada as proof that Melee is somehow equivalent to barlw. Two players out of the entire tournament choose to play campy as **** against each other, and that's about it. Even with the matches taking forever, there's still a lot of depth in what's happening. Hbox is constantly weaving through projectiles and Armada is constantly covering his weak points from approaches. It's easy to look at it and think it's nothing special, but any other Puff or YL on the planet would get tapped in a minute by either player.

For the record I like Brawl and Melee. And I started with Brawl first. I can see both having strengths and weaknesses for competitive play, I'll even go far as to say that Melee seems better in that regard. But dismissing every Brawl set ever as unwatchable is idiotic.

It's funny because the only thing casuals can understand about high level play in fighting games is ZOMG COMBOZ. If that's all you care about, you aren't too different from those that you mock. That's not to say Brawl doesn't have true combos, it just has less combo potential than Melee for obvious reasons.

Also, right now , the Brawl scene is more hype and it has nothing to do with gameplay. In Melee it's always the same 4 people coming out on top and the same matchups being played over and over. Brawl has far more active strong regions and as a result, a lot more than 4 people have shot at taking Apex this year which is more stacked than ever. This keeps it dynamic and interesting.
Your assumption that all Melee players care about is combos is hilarious. You also fail to realize how much depth combos and followups add to the game. You can't just dial-a-combo in Melee like you can in other fighters. DI and teching add so much depth, and it's sad to think that barlw has very little to none of that because of the reduced hitstun and airdodge mechanics, not to mention the extra lag on aerials.

barlw is more hype because anyone can win? Do you not see a problem with that logic? Maybe we should all just play RPS tournaments; there'd be A LOT more than 4 people with a chance at winning. The same 4-5 people win in Melee because you have to be really ****ing good at the game in order to even compete with the top players. As far as the same matchups being played, I find that hilarious coming from a community that banned a character because so many people were playing him. If I'm not mistaken, double Metaknight is still banned in teams to this day. Meanwhile, Melee has great character variety with a select few players placing pretty damn high even with the likes of ICs, Pikachu, Ganon, and Doc.
 

Mahie

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I mean this exact discussion has happened back when the FB poll was up. Stop running circles please, take it to private but it's really tiring to read the same **** all the time.
 

zmx

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Not being meant to be competitive is one thing, but Sakurai INTENTIONALLY sabotaged barlw to make it unplayable in a competitive environment. Why do you think they slowed everything down, made everyone floaty, made recovering retardedly easy, buffed virtually every aspect of dodging/shielding, and removed hitstun (and by consequence, combos and knockdowns)? Oh, and the most painfully obvious example, he made it so players randomly trip for no reason whatsoever.

Once again you only prove how little Melee only fans know. Brawl has less hitstun than Melee, it's not removed entirely. Brawl DOES have combos, knockdowns and tech chases.



Your assumption that all Melee players care about is combos is hilarious. You also fail to realize how much depth combos and followups add to the game. You can't just dial-a-combo in Melee like you can in other fighters. DI and teching add so much depth, and it's sad to think that barlw has very little to none of that because of the reduced hitstun and airdodge mechanics, not to mention the extra lag on aerials.
Proving your ignorance once again not to mention a failure to read. I never once said that's all they care about. Brawl DOES have DI and techinng and as a result followups and combos work the same way as they do in Melee. You've never watched a high level Brawl match in your life have you? Have you even played the game? Lol.

barlw is more hype because anyone can win? Do you not see a problem with that logic? Maybe we should all just play RPS tournaments; there'd be A LOT more than 4 people with a chance at winning. The same 4-5 people win in Melee because you have to be really ****ing good at the game in order to even compete with the top players. As far as the same matchups being played, I find that hilarious coming from a community that banned a character because so many people were playing him. If I'm not mistaken, double Metaknight is still banned in teams to this day. Meanwhile, Melee has great character variety with a select few players placing pretty damn high even with the likes of ICs, Pikachu, Ganon, and Doc.
Once again that's not what I said at all. If anyone can win a game, it's not good for competitive play. I said there were MORE top players in Brawl than Melee because there are more active stronger regions close to skill with each other (such as the US and Japan as a whole), that's just a fact.
 

Jiv

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I don't think our game matters to them as much as some of you guys think it does lmao.

:phone:
 

zmx

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To summarize what I said (because something tells me you are just going to grossly misread everything again and put words in my mouth).

1. I'm fully aware of all the concepts you mentioned. I follow both the Melee/Brawl scene (as well as play competitively) to some extent. They are not unique to Melee. They exist in Smash in general. It's accurate to say Brawl has less combo potential than Melee and Melee has less combo potential than 64. But everything you mentioned that's great about Melee (especially how followups and combos work) also exists in Brawl, just sometimes to a lesser extent.

2. A game is not good for competitive play if "anyone can win". This is obvious and I never said anything to contradict this. Brawl has more top players apparently because there is more international interest and competition especially in Japan. As to why that is, you tell me.

I don't think our game matters to them as much as some of you guys think it does lmao.

:phone:
This.

The FGC will never ever respect Smash and it has nothing to do with Melee being better competitively than Brawl (and I actually agree with this statement). Think about marketing and sponsership. Nintendo will never ever sponser Smash tournies whereas the likes of Evo are actually sponsered by companies like Capcom and Namco.

Then consider Nintendo has always marketed Smash as a casual kid-friendly party brawler. That image is always going to stick and is part of Nintendo in general. You are never going to convince the bigger FGC organizations that Smash is a legitimate fighter, it's not even worth trying. Even if they sometimes give Smash spots at tournies, it doesn't mean they respect it.
 

zmx

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No srsly, why can't we have a Brawl vs. Melee thread? I hate this **** popping up.
Or you can like both. Like me.
It's pretty sad the Smash community can't even get along.

Granted it happens with other fighters as well, just not to this extent. People might prefer 3rd strike or MvC2 but they don't constantly bash the newer releases or insist they don't skill to play (which is an idiotic thing to say about any fighter) because of it.
 

LivewiresXe

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In case people want an accurate timeframe to when to expect the lineup reveal, WakeupSRK typically airs a bit after 9:30 PM EST, so the reveal will likely happen between 9:30-10:30pm EST tonight.
 
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