Evo 2k8 Brawl Finals

[metaXzero]

smash is a game designed to play WITH items, I am a marth player, I enjoyed the match, and if he lost its because he misused objects (including the smash ball).
Using objets is just a part of the game as important as using grabs or smash hits (I personally hate grabbing) but that is a "home rule" the real game is made to play WITH objets and everithing.

PD: Not always the best wins or the one who played better, but that is the same with or without objets, but its a good thing about smash (if it were not this way my brothers would never play me xDD )

Doesn't mean we have to turn them on.

 

[PassWurD]

CPU sucks, Ken was just on vaca, and decided to enter, and still tore it up , although im surprised a Falco didn't win, LAZAH spam and Falco FS ftw...

 

[saberhof]

smash is a game designed to play WITH items, I am a marth player, I enjoyed the match, and if he lost its because he misused objects (including the smash ball).
Using objets is just a part of the game as important as using grabs or smash hits (I personally hate grabbing) but that is a "home rule" the real game is made to play WITH objets and everithing.

PD: Not always the best wins or the one who played better, but that is the same with or without objets, but its a good thing about smash (if it were not this way my brothers would never play me xDD )

so this game is based on luck now?...


=O

 

[SirroMinus1]

I enjoyed this. very entertaining

 

[zhone]

wow... yeah... item play definatly has it's place where it can throughly be enjoyed... but real tournament play is NOT the place. i completely see where it takes a certain skill to win... but that skill is still pretty cheap when compared to the skill it takes to win with no items IMO!

 

[theONEjanitor]

I think it's gross how knowledge of spacing, approaching, DI, recovery, etc is inconsequential compared to the ability to get the smashball.

weren't arguing everyone down about how item play is "fair"

 

[theONEjanitor]

Here's an interesting thing to think about.

In another thread in this very forum, there's a match video between SK92's Falco and Ken's Marth. For those of you saying Ken lost because he is inexperienced at Brawl, please tell me why you think he beat SK92: was it because he's better at Brawl, or because he got lucky with items?

Its because both of them regularly play without items, and neither one of them was playing "wait for the smashball" like CPU was

1. It was legit. He won. There was no outside interference or hacks involved.
2. IT WAS AN ITEMS TOURNEY. If it was a tourney without items then I would also expect Ken to 2-3stock him every match.
3. In the interview CPU said that he had practiced with the EVO ruleset. He appeared to have had superior knowledge of items-on smash.

Yes its random but what you all need to understand is that tiers with items on are completely different than with them off. The basic techniques that we are familiar with while items are off do not play as large of a role. Mindgames are completely different.

Yes, with items off the game is less random and in fact more appropriate for competitive play, but items-on is not non-competitive.

SWF is just as arrogant about the game as SRK. The only difference is that we know more.

Regardless, arrogance is arogance. I also get the impression that we are elitist as well but I suppose the two tie in together.

lmfao why is everyone insinuating that cpu "used items better".

he didn't "use items better", the "items randomly appeared in places convienient to him more times than they did to Ken".
it has nothing to do with practice. The items were DESIGNED to give a handicap to better players. Sakurai pretty much admitted that himself.

 

[Psychoace]

I only stated something and of course, the people here love starting stuff over stupid crap. I made a joke, and someone called me racist for it. I guess most comedians are racist too, huh?



So says the guy who can't space correctly, and only makes one word posts that hold no footing. GG.



Well finals usually are the most talked about matches. And plus everyone johning for Ken, that just adds to the topic, ya feel me? XD And I didn't even argue truthfully. I made a joke and someone didn't see it fully/doesn't know what racism is, and took it I guess offensively.

I guess sarcasm doesn't travel well over the internet. You can stop using me as your basis for everything now..


Anyway,

Originally Posted by Roxmorf
the real game is made to play WITH objets and everithing.

PD: Not always the best wins or the one who played better, but that is the same with or without objets, but its a good thing about smash (if it were not this way my brothers would never play me xDD )

The real game? lol this kid has it figured out, screw that option to turn the **** off

As for the whole second statement there uhh normally the one who played better wins....that's why he won... go play isai in ssb and tell me how that statement holds up.

 

[Gojira]

Items are just luck. They just shouldn't be here. I always hate items. They're so annoying and suck so much it's unbelieveable. And it sucks if some noobs just win because they got lucky.

I am not suporting items or anything....but I see alot of people dogging on them based off of the "Luck" factor. WTF is tripping?, Also Gordos, judgment hammers, missfires and stitch faces are all based off of luck as well. So should the characters with the aforementioned abilities be banned along side items because of "luck"?. People seriously need to stop using "Luck" as an excuse.

 

[Baky]

read my sig

no johns

confirmed. ********.

wow... yeah... item play definatly has it's place where it can throughly be enjoyed... but (1)real tournament play is NOT the place. i completely see where it takes a certain skill to win... but (2)that skill is still pretty cheap when compared to the skill it takes to win with no items (3)IMO!

1. As opposed to fake tourney play?
2. "that skill is still pretty cheap"... wut?
3. Don't state your opinion as if its fact.

Its because both of them regularly play without items, and neither one of them was playing (1)"wait for the smashball" like CPU was

(2)lmfao why is everyone insinuating that cpu "used items better".

he didn't "use items better", the "items randomly appeared in places convienient to him more times than they did to Ken".
(3)it has nothing to do with practice. (4)The items were DESIGNED to give a handicap to better players. (5)Sakurai pretty much admitted that himself.

1. Yes I agree that CPU relied on smashballs to win. Smashballs are broken.
2. because CPU did use items better. Watch match 3.
3. Practice was involved. CPU mentioned that before the tourney he read the rules and practiced with those items that were going to be allowed.
4. No. Smashballs were designed to give a handicap.
5. Sakurai admitted that he wanted the game to be more of a party game rather than a competitive fighting game where all players are able to win. Quote his mention of items and how they are meant to cripple competitive play.

EDIT: *4th statement* - Smashballs float towards the losing player. If a player dies several times he spawns with a Final Smash.

EDIT: When I talk about items-on play I'm talking about the items that SRK have allowed. This does not include broken items like bombombs or golden hammers but does allow smashballs and homerun bats, (which I consider broken).

I am not suporting items or anything....but I see alot of people dogging on them based off of the "Luck" factor. WTF is tripping?, Also Gordos, judgment hammers, missfires and stitch faces are all based off of luck as well. So should the characters with the aforementioned abilities be banned along side items because of "luck"?. People seriously need to stop using "Luck" as an excuse.

Its the only argument they can come up with. Gojira, you get a star for not **** - riding the rest of the SWF community.

 

[-Gambit-]

I like how Ken pwnt the dude in the beginning without items. aww well gg none the less.

 

[chaddd]

All I can say is I told them to do Melee. But did anyone on Shoryuken listen? No, they hate us because the majority of their players think for some reason that human cartoon characters are somehow manlier and more hardcore than Nintendo cartoon characters.

I sure am happy that they all think our game sucks now because they didn't listen to any of our players on anything relating to Smash, despite their mysterious desire to host it. And even better is their response when we tell them what the turnout will be compared to good rules or a good game:

"STFU EVO DOESN'T NEED YOU. YOU NEED EVO CUZ YOUR TOURNIES ALL SUCK LOLOLOL"

Sweet. I can totally feel the love.

EDIT: I just watched the matches.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

This commentary *****. "Ken can hardly get any Smash Balls against this incredibly intelligent 14 year old player."

Like getting the smash balls is skill worthy, get it?

Hahahahahaha.

I'd like to line up a bunch of street fighter players and see how many of them could waveshine a peach after having it explained to them and then ask them what they think about Brawl vs Melee, or advanced tech, or items vs no items. I just some of these people actually played the game and stopped being scrubs about everything.

In street fighter if there are scrubs running the tournament it's no problem, in smash if there are scrubs running the tournament, anyone halfway decent at the game wants to kill themself by the end of the tournament.

 

[teekay]

I am not suporting items or anything....but I see alot of people dogging on them based off of the "Luck" factor. WTF is tripping?,

I'm sorry but... come on. DUH. If there was an option to turn off tripping, and Evo left it on, people would be upset about that too.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Regardless, we all know that Evo thrusted a middle finger in our faces before all this happened. Nothing surprising happened; virtually no top level players showed, and they're masquerading as if they did the right thing.

That's their business. They're doing it for the group that regularly goes to Evo.

If I go to Evo, it won't be primarily for Smash, and it was the same before this incident. Just ignore them and let them do as they please, creating a items-play community that doesn't really care to exist competitively.

...

Although, I still need to say what a part of me wants to scream as a result: **** Evo's Smash choices.

 

[iEatPikmin]

I am SO happy I muted my computer before watching the first video...

 

[zhone]

okay. so normally i wouldn't waste my time to further expand on my thoughts especially when someone tries to tell me what not to do over the internet like they actually hold authority.(i'll gladly express my opinions in anyway i see fit)

Now at no point or at any other point will i ever diss another players skill or form of play. i myself am very much open to playing under any set of rules wheather i know them ahead of time or have them sprung on me at the very last moment. but i do find that a higher level of focus is required to attack and defend against an opponent who is concentrating his/her attack souly on myself instead of trying to be the first to grab the nearest weapon. i do admit that one has to have mulitple strategies based on which item they are attacking with or being attacked with but i do still find it less difficult and thus "Cheaper" then non-item combat.

Now... since you seem to focus on the meaning of the word "Real" when pertaining to tournment play... i define a "Real" tourney as being more then just a get toghether at a friends house or a local game store. i define "Real" as knowing that on a certain date at a certain time during that date you'd better be at your best in smash otherwise your not going to be cherishing any bragging rights or any since of improvement in the characters that you've decided to main for one reason or another. i define real as knowing that there's a prize other than a fun night with people who enjoy the same game as you. it's just deaper than that... so if "Baky" can't establish an uderstanding for the thoughts that ive expressed beyond this post then their just on here to be rude and condescinding to others which i completly don't condone.

 

[gkrackerr]

I'm sorry but... come on. DUH. If there was an option to turn off tripping, and Evo left it on, people would be upset about that too.

lol, there's actually a way to take tripping out of brawl

 

[Sephiroth27]

There was lots of hype for Brawl and future matches like these. Now that we've seen them, one question remains: Anyone want to come over and play Melee?

 

[ConnorTheKid]

LMAO ^^^ Amen to that

 

[OmegaXF]

There was lots of hype for Brawl and future matches like these. Now that we've seen them, one question remains: Anyone want to come over and play Melee?

Wow.Perfect timing lol!

 

[Doomxeen]

Absolutely disgusting.

First time I played Brawl. I heard rob was really lame so I picked him to see if it was true. I beat both of my friends who had been practicing for 6 months. DERP!!!!!!!

My favorite thing about melee was the fact that I could sit around for literal days watching matches and crew battles. The moment I saw brawl matches on youtube, I knew it wasn't going anywhere. It just isn't interesting in any way shape or form to watch ;_;

 

[N M E]

I know what I have to say in this thread.



ITEM PLAY FOR DA WIN

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Absolutely disgusting.

First time I played Brawl. I heard rob was really lame so I picked him to see if it was true. I beat both of my friends who had been practicing for 6 months. DERP!!!!!!!

Your friends must be terrible at Brawl, then, much like Ken, who can't even stop constant spot-dodge -> Down-Smash.

 

[Willz]

Ken deserved to win EVO after I saw his matches with SK92. Ken isn't that bad at Brawl as I would have thought.

These are the first matches I have saw of CPU, and I expected alot better. He relied entirely on items to be honest. Ken made a lot better showing. CPU wouldn't stand a chance if items were off.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Ken deserved to win EVO after I saw his matches with SK92. Ken isn't that bad at Brawl as I would have thought.

These are the first matches I have saw of CPU, and I expected alot better. He relied entirely on items to be honest. Ken made a lot better showing. CPU wouldn't stand a chance if items were off.

No, you can't say that anyone else "deserved" to win; CPU won, and that's really it. ROB is an excellent character for constant, effective camping, which certainly helps when you're looking for a good item to spawn.

If there were no items, then a lot more people would've came, and the top 8 would have drastically changed. :/

 

[Willz]

No, you can't say that anyone else "deserved" to win; CPU won, and that's really it. ROB is an excellent character for constant, effective camping, which certainly helps when you're looking for a good item to spawn.

If there were no items, then a lot more people would've came, and the top 8 would have drastically changed. :/

Well sorry, I just think that Ken played alot better than CPU. The only things that helped CPU was items. Otherwise Ken would of probably won these matches.

Yes, more people would of come if there was no items. Thats pretty obvious. And CPU might have not even made it too the final 8.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Well sorry, I just think that Ken played alot better than CPU. The only things that helped CPU was items. Otherwise Ken would of probably won these matches.

Yes, more people would of come if there was no items. Thats pretty obvious. And CPU might have not even made it too the final 8.

No, I agree; I think that the final 8 would have been completely different. And I acknowledge that when items weren't in play, Ken simply outplayed CPU. There's no need to apologize.

I'm just saying that no one has the right to take away from CPU's victory. He won under the rules they had. There was an obvious luck factor, but all the players entered knowing that, so no player has the right to complain about their placing.

 

[Baky]

No, I agree; I think that the final 8 would have been completely different. And I acknowledge that when items weren't in play, Ken simply outplayed CPU. There's no need to apologize.

I'm just saying that no one has the right to take away from CPU's victory. He won under the rules they had. There was an obvious luck factor, but all the players entered knowing that, so no player has the right to complain about their placing.

The real problem was smashballs. Without Smashballs, I believe the results would be a bit more satisfying.

...and before you said no top players showed up. SK92 is one of the best in the west and known as one of the best falco. Sadly, thats only one notable.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

The real problem was smashballs. Without Smashballs, I believe the results would be a bit more satisfying.

...and before you said no top players showed up. SK92 is one of the best in the west and known as one of the best falco. Sadly, thats only one notable.

In the nicest way possible, I've never heard of him, but I suppose I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but he was outplayed by Ken in a relatively even matchup (Falco vs. Marth), who was outplayed by a spot-dodge spamming ROB player. I'd expect better.

Maybe Ken just wasn't used to the matchup...but I would imagine that he would adapt fairly quickly.

 

[Baky]

In the nicest way possible, I've never heard of him, but I suppose I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but he was outplayed by Ken in a relatively even matchup (Falco vs. Marth), who was outplayed by a spot-dodge spamming ROB player. I'd expect better.

Maybe Ken just wasn't used to the matchup...but I would imagine that he would adapt fairly quickly.

I saw the Ken vs SK92 matches as well. It was surprising. SK92 goes on about par with DSF but if you've seen his matches with DannyKatt then you'd notice that he apparently has problems with Marth and Marth is a bad matchup for Falco, says the falco boards.

I'm not creating excuses for the guy but I know he is a notable.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I saw the Ken vs SK92 matches as well. It was surprising. SK92 goes on about par with DSF but if you've seen his matches with DannyKatt then you'd notice that he apparently has problems with Marth and Marth is a bad matchup for Falco, says the falco boards.

I'm not creating excuses for the guy but I know he is a notable.

I understand. I have no trouble believing your word.

However, it's still worth noting that a large thread on the Falco boards don't say that the matchup is any lower than 40/60. Not that it really means anything, but, I figured I'd show that my claim isn't baseless.

 

[Sephiroth27]

The announcers or maybe the EVO staff in general do not know how to distinguish skill from luck.

On a side note, I think I would have enjoyed watching Reflex use Wario and eat items. What would be more entertaining is watching him turn into Warioman.

Brawl would be perfect if everyone could attack that fast and perform fsmashes that cover half the stage.

 

[PassWurD]

Ken didn't deserve to win, CPU did I guess cause' he practiced with the rule set, but Ken was just on vaca and still tore it up , What Ken really deserved was a better final or one of the last tournaments he'll attend tournament

 

[ConnorTheKid]

I wish Futile went to this, his Warioman would be GODLY

 

[Parker1006]

lol, this is the finals of a tournament? that was so boring. i've watched melee friendlies that were more entertaining than that

 

[Dastrn]

Ken deserved to win EVO after I saw his matches with SK92. Ken isn't that bad at Brawl as I would have thought.

These are the first matches I have saw of CPU, and I expected alot better. He relied entirely on items to be honest. Ken made a lot better showing. CPU wouldn't stand a chance if items were off.

Well sorry, I just think that Ken played alot better than CPU. The only things that helped CPU was items. Otherwise Ken would of probably won these matches.

Yes, more people would of come if there was no items. Thats pretty obvious. And CPU might have not even made it too the final 8.

I always imagine people from England being better at English.

Quote from "Snatch"
"I thought this country spawned the ****ing language, and so far nobody seems to speak it."

 

[Willz]

I always imagine people from England being better at English.

Quote from "Snatch"
"I thought this country spawned the ****ing language, and so far nobody seems to speak it."

I'm not speaking it, I'm typing it. This is Smash Boards, not a literature forum.

 

[Doomxeen]

Your friends must be terrible at Brawl, then, much like Ken, who can't even stop constant spot-dodge -> Down-Smash.

Well. They have both gotten 1st in the tournaments they've entered. Which made me laugh because one of them actually IS very bad and literally could not beat the rest of us in melee, ever.

I think it's the fact that I watched lots of matches before playing the game and well..... it's not like rob is difficult in any way shape or form. You just downsmash camp and dodge out of attacks while spamming all the ranged you can.

 

[thesage]

Items or not both players sucked badly at this game lol.

I should've gone this year and won the tournament. Neither player in the finals looked like the knew how to get out of MK's spam gay.

 

[FartKnocker]

EDIT: I was embarrassingly stupid in 2008