EVO 2018 Discussion Thread for Smash 4

[MarioManTAW]

CaptainZack 3-0 Nietono
Nietono out at 3rd. CaptainZack vs. Lima Grand Finals!

 

[JustCallMeJon]

CaptainZack beat Nietono 3-0

BAYO DITTOS GF ARE YOU READY?!?

Lima vs Zack!!

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

Welp Smash 4 lasted great until DLC. Be careful for what you wish for. Having 3 Bayos in Top 4 and just how oppressive she was is just not..... Fun to watch.

 

[MarioManTAW]

Nietono easily went on the best losers run out of all the players at EVO. I'm going to look at it later.

I think Choco could give him a run for his money on that claim.
Choco: Z, Larry Lurr, VoiD, ESAM, Dabuz
Nietono: Drystan, Vermillion, VaLoR, Charlie, Diablo, Shuton, falln, Choco, Mr. E
Yes, Nietono had a longer losers run, but IMO Choco's was potentially more stacked.

 

[JustCallMeJon]

I think Choco could give him a run for his money on that claim.
Choco: Z, Larry Lurr, VoiD, ESAM, Dabuz
Nietono: Drystan, Vermillion, VaLoR, Charlie, Diablo, Shuton, falln, Choco, Mr. E
Yes, Nietono had a longer losers run, but IMO Choco's was potentially more stacked.

You forgot Mistake for Nietono

 

[Heracr055]

I don't follow either player so I'll prob skip out.
I'm happy for MVD and Raito though.
And all those people complaining about Bayo and saying the game is dead/Ultimate will be their savior...they got another thing coming. Because the next overtuned character, regardless of who it is, will receive the same flack. Usually a consequence from an uncreative, casual or lazy crowd/playerbase who won't put in the work to overcome adversity.

 

[Iridium]

I think Choco could give him a run for his money on that claim.
Choco: Z, Larry Lurr, VoiD, ESAM, Dabuz
Nietono: Drystan, Vermillion, VaLoR, Charlie, Diablo, Shuton, falln, Choco, Mr. E
Yes, Nietono had a longer losers run, but IMO Choco's was potentially more stacked.

Oh, I was referring to how long his losers run was. Choco's was better in wins, though.

 

[MERPIS]

If this happens I'm quitting until ultimate is released

I'm sticking by this, goodbye trash 4

Welp Smash 4 lasted great until DLC. Be careful for what you wish for.

No no, you're completely wrong, dlc was great and balanced until bayonetta hit the scene, every other dlc is fine and a good character bar roy and they're all balanced bar NETTA and maybe cloud but he's much easier to get a hold of.

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

I'm sticking by this, goodbye trash 4


No no, you're completely wrong, dlc was great and balanced until bayonetta hit the scene, every other dlc is fine and a good character bar roy and they're all balanced bar NETTA and maybe cloud but he's much easier to get a hold of.

Cloud is stil ridiculous just not Bayo SS Tier. Corrin pin is also abusive as heck but they both have weaknesses. Bayo excels at everything. December can't get here soon enough.

 

[JustCallMeJon]

I'm sticking by this, goodbye trash 4


No no, you're completely wrong, dlc was great and balanced until bayonetta hit the scene, every other dlc is fine and a good character bar roy and they're all balanced bar NETTA and maybe cloud but he's much easier to get a hold of.

Blame Europe Kappa

 

[Crazyguy1990]

Why has this Grand Finals set felt so boring, apart from the obvious Bayo ditto matchup?

 

[Iridium]

I just realized something. Dabuz has been eliminated by Japan at every EVO. Abadango at EVO 2015, Ranai at EVO 2016, KEN at EVO 2017 and Choco at EVO 2018 now. That is interesting.

 

[MERPIS]

Cloud is stil ridiculous just not Bayo SS Tier. Corrin pin is also abusive as heck but they both have weaknesses. Bayo excels at everything. December can't get here soon enough.

I don't really care who's the best as long as I like the character and they're top because of their kit, bayonettas top because of two moves and two moves alone in witch twist and witch time, without these she's mid tier at absolute best

 

[MarioManTAW]

CaptainZack 3-2 Lima
Bracket reset!

 

[jwillenn]

"Thank you, Goku..." - Cell

 

[MERPIS]

CaptainZack 3-2 Lima
Bracket reset!

Who cares its a trash ditto between two of the most boring players and their equally boring main

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Who cares its a trash ditto between two of the most boring players and their equally boring main

You're getting a little too angry there dude.

No one did anything wrong.

 

[MERPIS]

You're getting a little too angry there dude.

No one did anything wrong.

They picked bayonetta
What's worse is that netta mains themselves act all "self aware" that they main her and they think they're acting all cute because of that self awareness which is even more disgusting

 

[Swamp Sensei]

They picked bayonetta
What's worse is that netta mains themselves act all "self aware" that they main her and they think they're acting all cute because of that self awareness which is even more disgusting

You are getting way too personal.

Stuff like this is why Smash 4's community isn't respected, not the Bayonetta mains.

 

[MarioManTAW]

Lima 3-1 CaptainZack
LIMA WINS EVO 2018!!!
LET'S GO TEXAS!!!

 

[Crazyguy1990]

Smash 4 Grand Finals with no hype right here.

 

[Iridium]

Man, this EVO really felt empty, but I guess it made for some notable runs (Nietono, Choco, Raito). Not sure how to feel about how this was SSB4's last EVO, and we would not have had this had SSBU come out earlier.

 

[Lord Dio]

EVO: If you're not watching from the western half of the US, you're gonna get 3-0'ed by sleep
congrats to all ig

 

[JB333]

Okay so grands was very... I guess you could say divisive amongst the smash 4 community. Some saw it as 2 friends having fun, which is something that competitive 1 v 1 smash 4 is supposed to have. But others saw it as extremely disrespectful.

I personally am in the middle on this one. On one hand, it was nice to see Lima and Zack laughing and having a good time in between games during sets. That was pretty neat. On the other hand, bullet camping for 2 min is completely disrespectful to the people in the venue that wanted to see some competitive smash 4 in grands. I’ll cut them some slack for being young, and of course 2 friends are gonna want to have some fun, but I think you gotta be considerate of the spectators in the venue as well as the sponsors. Nintendo probably wouldn’t have sponsored it if they knew that grands would turn out he way it did.

The only reason I bring this up is because the community is going bananas on Twitter (unsurprisingly). I will say I enjoyed some parts of Evo, and congratulations to Lima for winning his first one!!!

 

[Frihetsanka]

Cloud is stil ridiculous just not Bayo SS Tier. Corrin pin is also abusive as heck but they both have weaknesses. Bayo excels at everything. December can't get here soon enough.

You can complain about Corrin pin, but you can't really complain about Corrin as a whole when she's something like #12-13 or so.

For people saying Ultimate will be as bad as Smash 4 when it comes to balance: I'm not convinced. Smash 4 suffered partly because of DLC, which meant that the team had less time to nerf some characters through balance patches (Bayonetta is the most notable example). Unless something similar happens to Ultimate (and it might not), it seems fairly likely Ultimate will not have any character as overpowered as Smash 4 Bayonetta.

They picked bayonetta
What's worse is that netta mains themselves act all "self aware" that they main her and they think they're acting all cute because of that self awareness which is even more disgusting

Lots of money on the line, so I don't think we can really blame them for picking the best character. If she's that bad we should probably ban her (though I don't think we should).

Oh, and a solo Lucina got #5 at EVO. That's interesting.

 

[tskidless]

Something that is interesting is how many people were leaving before the grand finals of EVO, it is pretty depressing in all honesty.

https://twitter.com/VermillionSSB/status/1025974234290348034?s=19

 

[Dream Cancel]

I don't understand the defense of Zack and Lima.

Yes, they earned their spots in Grands, but seriously? What a waste of a final. No integrity whatsoever. Especially with an already controversial character, just fight it out and play friendlies after.

 

[Iridium]

I'm on the side of the angry here. Imagine spending so much money just to get to this tourney only to lose and have to watch that in grand finals. Having fun is not a bad thing, but at an extremely competitive tourney like EVO, literally stalling for minutes on end will rub people the wrong way. I hear some Japanese players are furious to see their fellow players (especially Nietono) fall just for this to happen. I don't wish harm on Captain Zack or Lima, but this was not the grand finals anybody expected to see, so I'm not surprised the backlash is hitting them hard.

It does seem to further prove however how us as a community have only brought ourselves down every time we found something to complain about. ZeRo winning almost everything, Diddy Kong's Hoo-Hah, Tweek switching off of Bowser Jr., Bayonetta, or just anything that dissatisfies us. Maybe things will change when SSBU comes out.

Edit: I heard some people call GFs Grand Friendlies. Yeah, I would say that name fits pretty well.

 

[Dream Cancel]

You can't fault people for wanting to win, just it's up to spectators to say what they do or don't find enjoyable to watch. We see this with sports; hopefully it happens in Ultimate as well.

 

[Iridium]

You can't fault people for wanting to win, just it's up to spectators to say what they do or don't find enjoyable to watch. We see this with sports; hopefully it happens in Ultimate as well.

I know, but this would not have been much of a problem if it was at a local for instance. To do this at EVO however . . .

I can't stop them from being happy (I don't want to), but that hurt to watch. Reminds me of the amount of people who left the venue, and how the viewer count dropped a few thousands. I doubt plays like this will continue to happen though.

I'm a bit salty, but I will get over it eventually.

 

[Nobie]

The Bayonetta's were getting booed all weekend, and they were getting booed in top 8. All I saw in grand finals were two players and friends deciding to cope with the negativity surrounding them by making their match more light-hearted. "Don't think of it as this big finale on front of a bunch of a-holes, think of it as just a match between you and me."

And you know what? People would've found excuses to gripe regardless of what happened. Because Bayonetta was there, and they refuse to see her in a neutral light

People have character preferences, but there's something to be said about learning to appreciate things that go beyond your own personal interests.

Anyway, the two best players at fighting Bayonetta in the world (who admittedly also use Bayonetta to varying degrees) literally were unable to attend tournament. No dwelling on what could've been, but just think about that.

 

[Dream Cancel]

People paid big money to go to EVO and they get this. It was either leave the area or express their malcontent. Why should we appreciate them when it's already easy enough to hate on the character, and they just add to it?

Disgraceful, honestly.

Objectively, she's not dominant enough to justify a ban, or anything really, but there is little to appreciate about her, in my opinion.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

I've said this on twitter, and I'll say it again: there's always a time and place for a homie stock, but I don't think EVO Grand Finals is the best time to do it; especially when you're doing it at such a high level, it comes across as collusion to many players/spectators.

 

[Patriot Duck]

I didn't see the grand finals first-hand, but everything I heard of it sounds disappointing. Smash 4 gave me countless hours of enjoyment and it's sad to see that its swan song went so far off-key with poor sportsmanship from the audience. This community has a lot of maturing to do.

 

[TakeYourHeart]

I believe this will teach the whole Smash community a lesson it won't soon forget.

I kind of loved it personally, the Bayo hate has peaked in such a way it would fit into a Shakespearean farce. And I think with the benefit of hindsight, we'll all come to laugh at it and consider it a very unique EVO moment. Lima and CaptainZack didn't get to where they were by accident, so I'm content. It makes for a good story.

 

[Misery Brick]

While I don't agree with the audience with the Bayonetta hate, as there are ways to combat her and she's not as dominant as many people try to make her out to be. She could've been better balanced, but it is what it is and EVO didn't ban her so. Everyone has their character preference, and I'd also like to see more variety in Top 8, but that's the nature of the game. Can't blame people for not liking her, but can't get mad at people for playing her.
However, the performance that came from both Lima and CaptainZack was extremely disappointing and unprofessional. Especially given that EVO is one of the biggest FG tournaments in the world, and we receive that moment.
Don't get me wrong, both of them did work to finally get to the main stage, I won't deny that, but how they handled that final set was just disgraceful. Especially given that so many entrants are vying for grand finals and the chance at the jackpot, only to have the guys who made it treat that position as a joke. It's an insult to all of them in my opinion.
Sure, some people got enjoyment out of it, but don't dismiss this as just Bayo hate. It's extremely infuriating, for me and many others, to see that Smash 4's final year just was treated this way.

 

[Minordeth]

Evo ran best of 3 outside of three matches.

It ain’t a secret that Bayo (and Rosa) hate bleeds into real life. Lima, Zack, Mistake, Tweek, and Salem are booed and rooted against all the time.

What Zack and Lima did was immature and petty. But, the ridiculous, persistent antagonism from a diverse community toward a bunch of teens for the character they play is wildly inappropriate and a stain on the Smash community. It’s a situation that this community directly fostered.

In other words: Evo ain’t sacred, Smash 4’s final year has had some incredible highlights, it will have more, get some perspective.

 

[Wintermelon43]

I was asleep (I'm on the east coast and it was 1 in the morning when it happened) for GFs, why exactly is what Mistake and Lima did bad? I'm only really hearing that they played defensively, but by the reactions it sounds like whatever happened was worse.

 

[Vidd]

Regardless of the characters they picked and how the audience acted, stalling a match during the Grand Finals and requiring an organizer to intervene and get them to continue is simply disgraceful.

 

[zeldasmash]

I understand trying to have fun at a match and I understand friendlies....

....but this is EVO Grand Finals....I expect the players to treat it seriously. Instead we get stalling, something that is against EVO match regulations, for 2 minutes and the finalists treating EVO Grand Finals as a joke to the point where it almost seemed like they were colluding.

These Grand Finals were insanely disappointing no matter how you slice it. I mean some people knew it was going to be at least boring with a Bayo ditto but I'm pretty sure no one expected this...

I love Smash 4, it's one of my favorite games and it's such a shame to see it's last year at EVO be this.