European Brawl Tier List Project

[Marc]

Let's see who Aiko/Fuzzy recommend first. UK can definitely go in tier 2 or maybe even 1.

I think Tero got most of it right, as far as I can judge.

 

[Willz]

Aiko is from North West and Fuzzy from London. East Midlands needs a rep =P

 

[Fuzzyness]

It would be tier one but i didn't enter brawl in Smack cause some trashtalkers ruined it for me, I dont like people who talk when they're losing *especially when its spiteful

UK has very strong brawl players

 

[Marc]

Ah, was wondering about why you didn't enter. Very well, tier one it is. At least UK people can speak English. =p

 

[King Funk]

I've asked to join the EBBR social group, I'm waiting for approval. ^^

 

[Yeniths]

I would like to give my insight into this, but I'll wait to and see who Aiko and Fuzz recommend.

 

[Blad01]

I just requested a European Back Room that is an actual subforum in this room. This is for several reasons:

1. Most smashers have an account on here, their own country's forum and something like AIB. Having them sign up for yet another account is too much IMO and it will hurt activity. One of the reasons I've never posted on the EBBR forum is that it simply isn't part of my daily browsing routine, which is busy enough already.
Also keep in mind that most smashers that aren't active on EBBR's forum aren't really active on SmashBoards either.
2. Smashboards is stable and ad-free.
3. We are just as much a part of the smash community as our American brethren. Why should we be all over the place? IMO it's long overdue.
4. I don't like social groups.

I read through some stuff on the EBBR forum and I've seen some people that are very capable of discussing these things properly.

Wait, you asked a subforum just because you thought it was the best idea ? If we want to be more united, we should decide these things together.

1. I don't think it would be too much at all, lazziness should not be an argument. Just don't be lazzy, and add that forum to your 'daily routine', if you care enough about EBBR, you will.
2. SmashBoards is American, and we are European. We need to be more independant.
3. Wait what ? SmashBoards is the first Smash website in the world, so it's obvious that we come here to discuss Smash with others countries (I'm thinking about american's ones).
If you are talking about the European in the American SBR, I don't think there should be any if a EBBR exists.
4. "I" ? Seriously, what ? This isn't only about you, Marc ôo Also, the social group exists for the American SBR too. And we don't use the social group for our discussions anyways. ^^

Also, the EBBR forum is not really good and attractive, but I think that we'll have a better one one day. (At the end of the summer I will probably begin seriously the european website project...).

Anyways, I don't like the idea of a subforum here, but if the EBBR prefers a subforum here, I will agree. I just think that we should vote instead of some deciding on their own for the whole community.

 

[Fuzzyness]

yah but an open vote leaves cheating and idiots, OMG SNAKE OMG METAKNIGHT SO BROKEN!?!?!? *urge to click*

 

[Blad01]

yah but an open vote leaves cheating and idiots, OMG SNAKE OMG METAKNIGHT SO BROKEN!?!?!? *urge to click*

Ahah no I meant for the choice of the subforum on SmashBoards / EBBR individual forum.

Marc just decided to request a subforum on SmashBoards, but I think we'll need an EBBR vote to decide what place we will be using.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

2. SmashBoards is American, and we are European. We need to be more independant.

Smash world forums are obviously worldwide

 

[-Jumpman-]

Wait, you asked a subforum just because you thought it was the best idea ? If we want to be more united, we should decide these things together.

1. I don't think it would be too much at all, lazziness should not be an argument. Just don't be lazzy, and add that forum to your 'daily routine', if you care enough about EBBR, you will.
2. SmashBoards is American, and we are European. We need to be more independant.
3. Wait what ? SmashBoards is the first Smash website in the world, so it's obvious that we come here to discuss Smash with others countries (I'm thinking about american's ones).
If you are talking about the European in the American SBR, I don't think there should be any if a EBBR exists.
4. "I" ? Seriously, what ? This isn't only about you, Marc ôo Also, the social group exists for the American SBR too. And we don't use the social group for our discussions anyways. ^^

Also, the EBBR forum is not really good and attractive, but I think that we'll have a better one one day. (At the end of the summer I will probably begin seriously the european website project...).

Anyways, I don't like the idea of a subforum here, but if the EBBR prefers a subforum here, I will agree. I just think that we should vote instead of some deciding on their own for the whole community.

1. It is an argument because that's how it works. I'm sure Marc knows that it shouldn't be an argument, but people tend to get inactive when they have multiple accounts.

2. SWF = Smash World Forums

I don't think we need something like an EBBR. The SBR works fine. The European countries are too separated anyway.

 

[Blad01]

1. It is an argument because that's how it works. I'm sure Marc knows that it shouldn't be an argument, but people tend to get inactive when they have multiple accounts.

Not if they are motivated. And we don't need people who are not motivated anyways.
Just look at the current EBBR forum, motivated players visit it regulary. (Ok, maybe not right now, since it's the exams period )

2. SWF = Smash World Forums

That's not about the name... It's American, almost everybody is talking about american scene, all we have as european is a subforum. Some others countries don't even have one (Australia, Japan, etc). How can that be worldwide ?

I don't think we need something like an EBBR. The SBR works fine. The European countries are too seperated anyway.

Is that because you entered the SBR a week ago ? (Honestly I'm under this impression)

In my opinion, the SBR relies way too much on american results (see Ankoku's thread), on american players and community, to be worldwide. This is why Europe, who has his own metagame and his own community (which can imply different ways of thinking), should have his own SBR.

Your last sentence is the lazzy argument again. And honnestly, that irritates me. People wanting change, and improvement, do they still exist? Because the change does not arrive accidentally, we can do it. ôo Maybe not that easily, but it's that hard either at all.

(Maybe Europe needs its own Obama, to prove that we can bring change )

 

[Marcbri]

1. It is an argument because that's how it works. I'm sure Marc knows that it shouldn't be an argument, but people tend to get inactive when they have multiple accounts.

2. SWF = Smash World Forums

I don't think we need something like an EBBR. The SBR works fine. The European countries are too seperated anyway.

I kinda agree on this being SWF but spanish players just prefer being on our own forums xD.


lol at the one who entered the SBR saying we don't need an european one.

 

[Marc]

Wait, you asked a subforum just because you thought it was the best idea ? If we want to be more united, we should decide these things together.

I already know where many people stand. I know my own community at least is centered around the Dutch boards and SWF. Adding a third board to that is overkill. From my experience with creating the Melee tier list, it's a ***** to have everyone sign up on another forum. Having them frequently visit it after the project is over? Hahaha.

1. I don't think it would be too much at all, lazziness should not be an argument. Just don't be lazzy, and add that forum to your 'daily routine', if you care enough about EBBR, you will.

It's naive to think people won't be lazy. Jumpman got it right, it works like that.

2. SmashBoards is American, and we are European. We need to be more independant.

Most of the userbase on SWF is American, but that doesn't mean we can't have a place here. I'm quite upset with the countries who have moved away completely, they are simply isolating themselves. Nationalism too is hurtful in this case. Although, if SWF refuses to give us a Back Room, then we might be better off leaving.

3. Wait what ? SmashBoards is the first Smash website in the world, so it's obvious that we come here to discuss Smash with others countries (I'm thinking about american's ones).
If you are talking about the European in the American SBR, I don't think there should be any if a EBBR exists.

That's a different discussion altogether.

4. "I" ? Seriously, what ? This isn't only about you, Marc ôo Also, the social group exists for the American SBR too. And we don't use the social group for our discussions anyways. ^^

That point was a joke, although it is my actual opinion.

Your last sentence is the lazzy argument again. And honnestly, that irritates me. People wanting change, and improvement, do they still exist? Because the change does not arrive accidentally, we can do it. ôo Maybe not that easily, but it's that hard either at all.

(Maybe Europe needs its own Obama, to prove that we can bring change )

This topic can lead to change, but it won't work if people aren't on board or being petty over trivial things.

 

[Red Arremer]

I don't think we need something like an EBBR. The SBR works fine. The European countries are too seperated anyway.

That's what we're trying to change with European projects like an own ruleset, and seemingly an own tierlist, as well.

Edit: Also, Yuna for Sweden plzkthxbai

 

[-Jumpman-]

Actually going to international tournaments would be much more efficient if you're trying to improve the way countries work together in Europe. It's absolutely pointless to make a tier list if these countries don't affect each other. I'm convinced that in certain countries or regions certain characters are more developed than others. This means you're making a tier list based on your own region.

 

[Gaki]

Actually going to international tournaments would be much more efficient if you're trying to improve the way countries work together in Europe. It's absolutely pointless to make a tier list if these countries don't affect each other. I'm convinced that in certain countries or regions certain characters are more developed than others. This means you're making a tier list based on your own region.

I think jumpman has a point there other then that marcs idea isnt a bad one at all.

 

[King Funk]

Actually going to international tournaments would be much more efficient if you're trying to improve the way countries work together in Europe. It's absolutely pointless to make a tier list if these countries don't affect each other. I'm convinced that in certain countries or regions certain characters are more developed than others. This means you're making a tier list based on your own region.

Yeah here in Portugal we have a relatively low number of good Meta Knight players, but we have lots of skilled Toon Links.

I prefer the idea of the subforum here rather than a separate forum because, as Marc said, it would be way too complicated for us to visit all our accounts all the time. Getting everyone to register will be way too hard. I am currently trying to move the portuguese community to smashboards, and I'll tell you, nothing but that is a real pain in the butt. I definitely won't tell them to move to yet another site. If we actually create a new forum, I predict a very inactive forum which will have a few posts in the beginning but will rapidly be abandoned by its members (don't tell me I have no clue, in fact, I have lots of experience in forum adminstration). We are fine here in SWF, it's a very good site with:
- all the information a smasher needs to get involved/hone his skills/communicate with others
- a stable and efficient system for tournament organizing

I believe we don't need to separate ourselves from the americans (vast majority of smashboards), but rather make our presence more felt.

As for our future PAL tier list, I believe we should use the voting system the SBR-B has used to create the second version of the tier list, by giving a value between 1-15 to each character. Why?

1. It might give an idea of which characters, in the words of jumpman, are more developed in each country.
2. We could have the "bigger community = more important" factor by giving coefficients to the values each country's chief representative decides.
   
   Explanation of 2:
   
   Imagine Portugal gives 13 and the UK gives 11 to Falco. The UK's number will count much more because let's say, Portugal has 2 as a coefficient and the UK 10 ( 2x13 < 10x11). By adding all the results, all you have to do in the end is divide by the total of each country's coefficient, and you get the result for each character.
   
   
3. It's way less complicated and more precise/true than just taking tier lists from everyone and mixing them up.

PS: I'm still waiting to be accepted in the EBBR social group... ^^

 

[Red Arremer]

Actually going to international tournaments would be much more efficient if you're trying to improve the way countries work together in Europe. It's absolutely pointless to make a tier list if these countries don't affect each other. I'm convinced that in certain countries or regions certain characters are more developed than others. This means you're making a tier list based on your own region.

I see where you're coming from.

But for the international tournament thingie - the problem is, that Europe doesn't have such a built and HUGE community as the States do. We don't have the people and funds to create such big tournaments.
Granted, the European community is growing and slowly educating. In the German-speaking region we're trying to establish more tournaments... it's not easy, but I hope that with some time, we can strengthen Brawl's value as a competitive game in Europe. ^^

 

[Marc]

As for our future PAL tier list, I believe we should use the voting system the SBR-B has used to create the second version of the tier list, by giving a value between 1-15 to each character. Why?

1. It might give an idea of which characters, in the words of jumpman, are more developed in each country.
2. We could have the "bigger community = more important" factor by giving coefficients to the values each country's chief representative decides.

1. 
   
   I really like your post, looks like we're on the same page.
   
   As for the system, the 1-15 system is actually what I used when I headed it up in the American SBR. A major benefit of it is that individuals don't have to precisely rank characters from 1-37. One thing I personally didn't like about it, was that it was a bit "too precise" in that we got many tiers from it. That's easily solved by voting on the gaps instead of statistical separation though. Discussing the system is a bit premature, but it's good to put some thought into it already. =]

 

[Blad01]

Actually going to international tournaments would be much more efficient if you're trying to improve the way countries work together in Europe. It's absolutely pointless to make a tier list if these countries don't affect each other. I'm convinced that in certain countries or regions certain characters are more developed than others. This means you're making a tier list based on your own region.

Oh in that sense you are absolutely right, that's why I said from the beginning that we should actually vote only at the end of the summer (There will have been 2, possibily 3 international events in Europe, plus Genesis in America).

 

[Aiko]

I've been away this weekend, but I can offer my views on the UK scene now.

First off, I have discussed this with several people over the last couple of days, and I had a few things I wanted to say immediately, but decided to hold back so I could think about it more.

In summary, the UK has 3 major regions which partake in regular brawl play: Northwest, East Midlands and London with community sizes around 20-30, 20 and 60-70 respectively. Whilst we haven't had a national tournament for a while, each region has their own tournaments and out of regioners often go to these, so there is some cross over in play, and each region is not isolated.

Also, Willz said East midlands lacks a rep, but I would argue Yeniths is definitely the rep there. He organises the majority of tournaments and built up the scene since the Japanese release of brawl.

My initial thoughts were that 10 people to represent the UK would be too many. I think about 6 people is enough. Secondly, I have concerns for some players as they may be excellent players but lack communication/debating skills. There are also a number of skilled players whom I personally think lack good analytical skills.

Tails Chao also suggested Fuzzyness was not suitable for the task, and I would agree. Whilst Fuzzyness is able to play, he never practices Brawl, nor does he keep up with the latest rules/changes. He simply knows how to play, but this is simply his ability to read other players and general smash knowledge; nothing brawl specific.

I would suggest these players (and some notes on them if necessary)

Aiko

Blinky

RetroKing - One of the best in UK, but definitely lacks some communication skills.

Makomako

Kira! - Another excellent player, but can be easily influenced at times.

Yeniths


One more possible person would be Willz. He has demonstrated his skill at the game to me, but not his understanding/knowledge. Whilst I'm not completely shutting him out, I'm not 100% convinced, but I think a short conversation with him would give me a better idea of his suitability.

 

[Marc]

That's a very helpful post, Aiko.

I'll add everyone you suggested. This has slowly developed into more than just the tier list. Everyone listed (if interested) will be granted access to the European Back Room when it's online. I'd like to have Fuzzyness back there as well, he's a good player and even if tier lists aren't his forte, he'll probably have something to say when we discuss rulesets etc. I'll leave Willz entirely up to you.

 

[Blad01]

That's a very helpful post, Aiko.

I'll add everyone you suggested. This has slowly developed into more than just the tier list. Everyone listed (if interested) will be granted access to the European Back Room when it's online. I'd like to have Fuzzyness back there as well, he's a good player and even if tier lists aren't his forte, he'll probably have something to say when we discuss rulesets etc. I'll leave Willz entirely up to you.

.......
We should make a vote at first with people in the EBBR / people on this list :

1. Make EBBR an independent forum
2. Make a sub-subforum on SmashBoards.

Do you want to organize the vote Marc ?

EDIT :

I'll add everyone you suggested. This has slowly developed into more than just the tier list.

There was already something more than this (EBBR) even before this thread, Marc :|

 

[Blinky]

I might as well add my thoughts here about a separate forum/sub-forum.
I'm interested in what other people see in terms of benefits from having a separate forum, assuming it is a European based forum for smash bros, theres only so many things you can do.

website announcements/configurations - purely aesthetic and no value in terms of community

international tournements - easily done on swf, just put a sticky on it and you get tournements fine, smack appeared to do well, and super lions appeal has boosted recently.

gameplayer discussion - swf is fine, if youre going to say that our metagame is different and therefore american opinion is invalid, then you will miss out on potential information which could be worthwhile to you.

off topic - swf is fine

back room - assuming we get it, swf will be fine

This really only leaves national sections, which I only see as isolation. 99% of people would stay in their sections, leaving little communications of national events, results, more people are likely to communicate if they can see it without going out of their way.
Also, looking over other forums (with difficulty due to my inability to speak any other language) alot of threads are identical to those from swf, keeping european threads here will cut back on clone threads from swf, as well as keeping information available.

If you think I have missed a key point which would be a good reason for having a main forum outside of swf then inform me, otherwise I don't see what good having seperate forums, both european and per country, is doing for the european community.

 

[Marc]

Blad01: If enough people speak up in here about wanting to leave Smashboards for another forum, then I'll make the poll. So far you've been the only one really pushing for it. I can understand you feel strongly about that board, but as Blinky already pointed out, what are the benefits of moving away really? It's bad enough that we need a SBR that's separated from the US, do we want to isolate ourselves even further? I only see benefits from keeping discussion on here.

 

[Red Arremer]

I'm totally for staying here on SWF.

There's no real reason to make an own forum. The EBBR forum we have right now is utter crap, I think pretty much all who know it can agree on that: advertisment, constant crashing, and hell even the board software is buggy, and doesn't display everything correctly.

SWF is stable, pretty much ad-free. We're not dependant on the American community in any way, because if we don't get an own subboard, we still are able to make our own board or something.

Pretty much all of the possible members of a European BR are registered here and active - maybe not in the Europe subboard, but at least in general.

Last but not least, it would be epic if we'd get a purple username color. 8D

 

[Blad01]

Apparently Tero also wanted to continue on the other forum if I remeber right. (cf post on the EBBR forum) He's probably not against an EBBR on SmashBoards though.

So my points were :

1. SmashBoards is American, and we are European. We need to be more independant.

Answers I saw :

- Smashboards = Smash World Forum
> The idea is really good on paper, but everything is about America here, we only have a sub-subforum. And the EBBR would be a sub-sub-suborum ? D: If there is an European EBBR, we need to have more importance on the boards. That means that the EBBR should be on front page, just below the American SBR, by example.

- We are not dependent, since we can leave SWF when we want
> I keep this somewhere in my computer, just in case

2. An independant website makes the european community more attractive and interesting, and would overall give a better presentation and organisation to european metagame and community. (Its goals would be to present the countries, the players, the video, the metagame(s), the tournaments, and others datas).

We could do that on SWF, but right now, while American's datas are in Tactical or General discussions forums, plus in 5 regionals subforums, ours are on the sub-subforum 'Europe'.

In short, if there is a EBBR here on SWF, which I recognize would be easier, SWF (since it's worldwide) should give more room to Europe, make it equal to America's room.

Also, if there is a EBBR, all the european in the SBR should leave it... I've never really understood why there were non-american people in the SBR anyways, since pretty much everything is based on America's metagame.

I'm totally for staying here on SWF.

There's no real reason to make an own forum. The EBBR forum we have right now is utter crap, I think pretty much all who know it can agree on that: advertisment, constant crashing, and hell even the board software is buggy, and doesn't display everything correctly.

Last but not least, it would be epic if we'd get a purple username color. 8D

You have good points XD

Pretty much all of the possible members of a European BR are registered here and active - maybe not in the Europe subboard, but at least in general.

I'm not sure of that, especially the french members :s But that could easily change.

 

[Kasper!]

I'm totally for staying here on SWF.

There's no real reason to make an own forum. The EBBR forum we have right now is utter crap, I think pretty much all who know it can agree on that: advertisment, constant crashing, and hell even the board software is buggy, and doesn't display everything correctly.

SWF is stable, pretty much ad-free. We're not dependant on the American community in any way, because if we don't get an own subboard, we still are able to make our own board or something.

Pretty much all of the possible members of a European BR are registered here and active - maybe not in the Europe subboard, but at least in general.

Last but not least, it would be epic if we'd get a purple username color. 8D

Very true staying here using the SWF would be much more beneficial due to the fact that it may be a pain to move people around (im still trying to get some people from aib to here, sadly it doesnt look like the are moving ).

Last but not least, it would be epic if we'd get a purple username color. 8D

I second that, purple coloured usernames would be kool

 

[Red Arremer]

2. An independant website makes the european community more attractive and interesting, and would overall give a better presentation and organisation to european metagame and community. (Its goals would be to present the countries, the players, the video, the metagame(s), the tournaments, and others datas).

We could do that on SWF, but right now, while American's datas are in Tactical or General discussions forums, plus in 5 regionals subforums, ours are on the sub-subforum 'Europe'.

In short, if there is a EBBR here on SWF, which I recognize would be easier, SWF (since it's worldwide) should give more room to Europe, make it equal to America's room.

Okay, first of all, we are talking about a European Backroom here, not a general European board. You have to differentiate this.

Secondly, you can put European tournaments just like everybody else into the calendar and the Tournament Listings.

Thirdly, Europe doesn't need more or as much room as the Americans, because we have less tournaments, players, and users in general.

 

[Fuzzyness]

if europe was going to be equal to america wouldnt we have separate sections for countries? :/

bit off topic but it's true..

+ ^^^^ what spadefox said is true..but still its more organized than seeing every other thread from around europe if you're looking for specifics...

I truly dont think we have such as small community as a whole and it's bad to say that, we have a huge amount of players overall and our section is just a small bit in a random corner of smashboards as I see it

A lot of people may get put off even coming on smashboards because at first looks it seems like an american board to be honest

 

[Blinky]

What are you trying to bring independance from? They offer space on their website about smash bros, full of valid information regardless of our stage in the metagame. If anything we should be more co-operative with the US, isolating ourselves will bring nothing.

Also EBR on the front page is trivial, I doubt it will bring up any thoughts. Europeans should be allowed to stay in the US SBR, as some US players shoud have access to the EBR, all cause their metagame is different doesn't mean we should ignore them and remove them from our discussions. Moving website/removing US players from EBR would do that, which is not a good idea.

You say a european website would be appealing and attractive, yet the UK community has disproved tha completely. The UK community is almost entirely swf, yet have over 100 brawl players, and an active brawl and melee scene. We once tried to move to neoempire, an already developed website, yet that failed. If people are interested in smash having their own small website compared to the massive swf would be discouraging imo.

Whats wrong with american tactical discussion? The games are near identical, sure the metagames are different but does that mean we should discard what they say? A separate forum is isolating smash communities, rather than bringing independance. Besides, alot of european threads in other boards are simply taken from here and translated.

In the end we don't NEED more room. All their smash discussion is valid to us, as our discussion is to them. All we need is space for tournements/community, which is right here.

 

[Fuzzyness]

im not saying moving, just organized different lol...like Europe section and separate regions then it'll stop the unncessary extra sites like sweden's community..which died on swf

America pretty much has that for their regions and it works well so I dont see why we cant :/

this has nothing to do with the EBR which is why i said it was off-topic

Moving site dosent work at all, but posting information on other sites brings interest and joining communities together

 

[Blinky]

I'm mainly opposing the need for an alternate forum, so I was mainly responding to blad01, while an expansion would be nice, its not like we need a complete overhaul.

 

[Marc]

SWF staff is sympathetic to our cause and would like US and Europe to be closer. I think we can accomplish that by organizing ourselves better first and acknowledging differences between our regions. Our two biggest issues are:

1. Lack of communication: several countries have isolated themselves, which hurts working together for international events and coming to any decisions on European rulesets etc.
2. Lack of visibility on SWF. It's true that we're hard to find and we need to think about how to change that.

These would be issues for a European Back Room. Meta Knight for example won't be as big a topic as it is in the US, so we can direct our resources elsewhere. People who do well in the European Back Room should also be let in the regular SBR at some point, as far as I'm concerned. We should learn from each other, but we also need to focus on our own unique problems.

If you want Europe to be represented more, get the userbase to back it up first. That means getting communities (back) on here and go from there.

 

[Fuzzyness]

the reason why they left in the first place is because they want their own boards/section, making a european section with specific regions would bring them back possibly? It wouldn't separate the europeans at all because the main threads where europeans talk the most are the european tourney threads, and maybe there could be a general european discussion room?

 

[Red Arremer]

I created a thread about that matter:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=233517

If Marc doesn't mind, I would like to export the meta discussion about rearranging the Europe subboard to it, and instead keep the discussion of this thread to be Backroom related.

 

[Blad01]

Okay, first of all, we are talking about a European Backroom here, not a general European board. You have to differentiate this.

From the beginning, I was for the creation of an european website, so I'm still talking about that project (it would include the EBBR).
I want to start that project at the end of the summer.

I'm not talking about a general european board, it would be really useless.

I was answering to nlinky (I think) about the benefits from an independent website (not boards, i've never said that)

if europe was going to be equal to america wouldnt we have separate sections for countries?

Urgh this is not really needed at all, on SWF I mean... But that because I still believe in an european website.
But if smashboards is meant to be worldwide, it should probably include these sections indeed (I wonder how useful they would be though).

Secondly, you can put European tournaments just like everybody else into the calendar and the Tournament Listings.

I do, this is just really bad organisation. And I prefer AIB for tournaments anyways, but whatever.

Thirdly, Europe doesn't need more or as much room as the Americans, because we have less tournaments, players, and users in general.

We probably have a lot less noobs, yes x)
No seriously, this isn't even about the size of the community (even if 100 players per country, as it seems to be, with at least ~40 regular players, is pretty good. Apparently it's the case in France, UK, Spain, maybe The Netherlands, etc), it's about making SWF truly worldwide.
(The size will only effect on the activity of the subforums)

Also I'm not saying that the "Brawl" Discussion (General, Tactical, etc) should be separated (to answer to Blinky). I'm talking about the SBR / EBBR, Smash Tournaments, Regional Zones mostly, that should be separated more or less equally.

I truly dont think we have such as small community as a whole and it's bad to say that, we have a huge amount of players overall and our section is just a small bit in a random corner of smashboards as I see it

A lot of people may get put off even coming on smashboards because at first looks it seems like an american board to be honest

Finally someone seeing my point... It's exactly how I see it.

What are you trying to bring independance from? They offer space on their website about smash bros, full of valid information regardless of our stage in the metagame. If anything we should be more co-operative with the US, isolating ourselves will bring nothing.

Well this is the goal of any Smash Bros. site anyways. It just occurs that SmashBoards is the biggest.

Also EBR on the front page is trivial, I doubt it will bring up any thoughts. Europeans should be allowed to stay in the US SBR, as some US players shoud have access to the EBR, all cause their metagame is different doesn't mean we should ignore them and remove them from our discussions. Moving website/removing US players from EBR would do that, which is not a good idea.

??
Americans in EBBR, European in American SBR ? What the heck ? ôo

Tier Lists are based on character potential, tournament results, players, and thus current metagame. And the metagames in America and Europe are different, the players, the tourneys results, sometimes even the rules, are different...
I don't get your point at all.

And if you can be both in the Am SBR and EBBR, then let's only keep a worldwide SBR, which is unrealistic and stupid, because it would have to take into account a lot of different metagames.

SBR is on front page. So EBBR (if that exists on SmashBoards one day) should be just below. This is just logic. :/

Also Fuzzyness, (EDIT : And Spadefox) the EBBR, and the European section are linked. The EBBR will bring european players here, more than usual, and SWF will become the first place to talk about brawl with others europeans, and to talk with others europeans (about their metagame and all)... (Until I make that website )
So we'll definitly need more space, and to be equal to America's SBR, regional / tournaments discussions, or at least to have our own forum, and to be visible from the front page.
(If SWF is truly worldwide, which I doubt)

 

[Tero.]

It's bad enough that we need a SBR that's separated from the US, do we want to isolate ourselves even further? I only see benefits from keeping discussion on here.

Well how many europeans are in the SBR? How many people from France, Spain, Germany, Switzerland, Italy? I haven't heard of any.

The reason why we want a european Back Room is the fact that there are literally no Europeans in the SBR.

I'm totally for staying here on SWF.

There's no real reason to make an own forum. The EBBR forum we have right now is utter crap, I think pretty much all who know it can agree on that: advertisment, constant crashing, and hell even the board software is buggy, and doesn't display everything correctly.

SWF is stable, pretty much ad-free. We're not dependant on the American community in any way, because if we don't get an own subboard, we still are able to make our own board or something.

Pretty much all of the possible members of a European BR are registered here and active - maybe not in the Europe subboard, but at least in general.

Last but not least, it would be epic if we'd get a purple username color. 8D

Actually I have to agree, that board is simple and crappy as hell, it was just a compromise because we didn't get that European Back Room the last time we requested one.

if europe was going to be equal to america wouldnt we have separate sections for countries? :/

bit off topic but it's true..

+ ^^^^ what spadefox said is true..but still its more organized than seeing every other thread from around europe if you're looking for specifics...

I truly dont think we have such as small community as a whole and it's bad to say that, we have a huge amount of players overall and our section is just a small bit in a random corner of smashboards as I see it

A lot of people may get put off even coming on smashboards because at first looks it seems like an american board to be honest

I totally agree.
If I have a look at Regional Zones I see 12 subforums for the US and only 1 for whole Europe, that's just sad, because we have many players and quite a few good players (Melee and Brawl), we have big tournaments and we have small tournaments even though not that much as america, we have big communitys. If I look at the biggest german competitive board we have almost 1000 members and there are tons of smaller boards too. How would the european section look if all those members from all countries and communities would only use smashboards as their tool of communication?

I believe the main reason why most european communities left smashboards is the fact that there is no equality between europe and the us. At the time where most of the communities left SWF to built their own boards we didn't even have a own subboard for Europe. In fact we had to share an "International" board with the rest of the non-american world.

This also caused the european community/countries to segregate from eachother.
One we tried to change this, but we failed: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=206785


@ Marc: For you as Moderator, leader of the SBR and ofc European, it should be a main concern to actually integrate Europe better on SWF, improve the european section, get at least one representative of each country into the SBR.
I'm adressing you because you have the power to accomplish some changes, however this is a tast conserning all of us.

 

[Marc]

I'm keeping the Staffer Shack updated about what's posted in here.

Part of my function in the SBR these days is to represent Europe. I've always provided them with our stance on things and have voted as a European. I also put a few Europeans in there, but it's very hard for me to tell who's interested and capable anymore (a European back room would be of great help for that). I'd love to recommend people, but I gotta know who to recommend. =]