Etrian Nomination Mafia - Endgame: Until the Day the Adventurers Rise Again

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

What Soup did matters, because Soup said that his vote for Z25 was explicitly self-preservation. You had no reason to drop me as a lynch whatsoever, all I needed to be lynched was gentle prodding and a line to Soup: "Instead of Z25, go back to Nabe."


Disfunk voted me by telling Soup, "be the change that you want to see," when Soup said he wanted a Nabe lynch. That's an effective method of carrying over a ready-made lynch to the next Day (following the nomination phase). Funk says to Soup, "yeah, let's go for inactive Nabe, good idea!" and then continues to lynch Soup when I flip town. At least your vote on me made sense in a certain context, because you've been consistent about hating my slot.

But the opposite tactic happens to be even better in this game, and that's why the wagon returned to Soup after its stint on me. Eliminating Soup is eliminating a speaking player who could have made himself whole by the time the next lynch rolled around, whereas I'm an easy LyLo lynch.

Granted, I am reading intent into the Nabe unvotes, it's not necessarily the story. Probably only one of you and Disfunk is scum, rather than both. Disfunk's unvote reasoning was 'to avoid a tie', and then they said, "Why Soup, Ryu? That could have made a tie!" which suggests that somehow a tie between me and Soup was necessary to avoid at all costs.



I think that a lynch on your (somehow) largest scumread was very attainable, but instead you swapped to Soup without a fuss. Your meta's old, but that's not relevant anyway.



You > Ryker > Z25 > Joey

Gonna break this down point by point.

h
bekng inactive eh

Now that I'm caught back up, Nabe's wagon analysis is ****ing gold. The fact that he's trying to push the thread towards Funko and Ruy at this junction of the game when Z is an easy lynch and all he has to do is sell the town on lynching me tomorrow instead of himself makes me think it's much more likely he's town than mafia. I also like everything he had to say about Funko's treatment of the wagon.

Ruy's push on me is probably the only push he's made that didn't involve policy. He's had Z as his target for today but I barely remember him talking about Z, he's been far more invested in two people not in the pool today. His push on me is based entirely on gutreads and his distaste for how I handled Soup and his push on Nabe is purely mechanical. I think he's mafia.

Honestly Funko showing up now is not what's got me interested in him, it's his treatment of Nabe's wagon. I think that's much more compelling and a better avenue to push the slot anyway. I wanna dig at that again.

being active while actively unhelpful, Nabe, is why I want him done.

i’m aware tomorrow is lylo, so? What do we do about Nabe then?

Ffs, yeah I hate inactives but boiling it down to a hatred of inactives alone is reductive as hell.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Further. I need you to go further on that question. Iirc, Funko was on your town list, so you're already reconsidering. Is Funko a possible scummer if Ruy is town too?

At the moment, the only thing I'm certain about is Kantrip, but I'm solving for Ruy/Nabe. I'm leaning one way, but I'm trying to re-evaluate your slot at the moment because how you line up changes a lot.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

That was #HBC | Laundry

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Also, no one should be putting much stock in suicide pacts at this point. The people incentivised most to make them are scum. If town makes one and ****s up, they get a lynch shoved down their throat and they lose the game. If scum makes one, they can get a townie lynched, live through the phase, die the next day and still be only one mislynch away from winning the game.

And let's be real. No one will actually follow through on letting themselves get lynched in LyLo if they're wrong.

 

[Disfunkshunal]

Nah, I would if I was confident in my play.

 

[Disfunkshunal]

I'll also say though, and I said this last game I was in too, at a certain point, I prioritize fun over winning. I'd feel confident in that play and, even if I were wrong, I'd consider the risk fun.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Nah, I would if I was confident in my play.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I'll also say though, and I said this last game I was in too, at a certain point, I prioritize fun over winning. I'd feel confident in that play and, even if I were wrong, I'd consider the risk fun.

There's no risk. It's bravado and positioning. You don't actually have to back the other end of it and I'm tired of putting up with this ****.

 

[Disfunkshunal]

That said,

There's no risk. It's bravado and positioning. You don't actually have to back the other end of it and I'm tired of putting up with this ****.

What I'm saying is, believe it or not, I would back the other end up. I'm not trying to convince you of the plan, nor am I trying to impress you. I'm stating the fact that if I agreed to hang after being wrong, I'd follow through. Regardless of what came next, regardless of lylo or not, regardless of "x" factor. If I said I'd do it, I'd do it.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I don't believe you. I also don't care. I have zero interest in playing that WIFOM.

I'm just sitting here waiting on Laundry.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

What Soup did matters, because Soup said that his vote for Z25 was explicitly self-preservation. You had no reason to drop me as a lynch whatsoever, all I needed to be lynched was gentle prodding and a line to Soup: "Instead of Z25, go back to Nabe."


Disfunk voted me by telling Soup, "be the change that you want to see," when Soup said he wanted a Nabe lynch. That's an effective method of carrying over a ready-made lynch to the next Day (following the nomination phase). Funk says to Soup, "yeah, let's go for inactive Nabe, good idea!" and then continues to lynch Soup when I flip town. At least your vote on me made sense in a certain context, because you've been consistent about hating my slot.

But the opposite tactic happens to be even better in this game, and that's why the wagon returned to Soup after its stint on me. Eliminating Soup is eliminating a speaking player who could have made himself whole by the time the next lynch rolled around, whereas I'm an easy LyLo lynch.

Granted, I am reading intent into the Nabe unvotes, it's not necessarily the story. Probably only one of you and Disfunk is scum, rather than both. Disfunk's unvote reasoning was 'to avoid a tie', and then they said, "Why Soup, Ryu? That could have made a tie!" which suggests that somehow a tie between me and Soup was necessary to avoid at all costs.



I think that a lynch on your (somehow) largest scumread was very attainable, but instead you swapped to Soup without a fuss. Your meta's old, but that's not relevant anyway.



You > Ryker > Z25 > Joey

and who was going to support it?

Ryker and Laundry were gone and they were both on Soup. Soup dipped and Dis got off.

With around an hour left what did you expect me to do when Soup had hate on him and Z was equally up for a lynch.

I’m not setting up dominos nor trying to set up a fall back lynch, I wanted you off the table because you don’t give anything worth reading into outside of this which is weak sauce.

it wasn’t obtainable that is why I switched when it resolved with an hour left.

Joey said no due to no info, you weren’t around, Laundry said Lynch Soup and dipped, Ryker wasn’t around.

so tell me then, what support did I really have?

 

[Disfunkshunal]

...

*shrugs*

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

You say a lot of words in this post to try to question Nabe but I find it quite ironic that despite saying this you're currently considering the game's least active player as the best lynch for LyLo.

And why was he allowed to be this inactive without someone holding him accountable?

I prodded him to give content before this and he stone walled me with a quote that didn't answer my question of how he felt on the cast and his recent post didn't either.

 

[Disfunkshunal]

On that note, Laundry, I can't speak to Nzone meta. Some of the people I played with eventually migrated to Nzone but the majority did not. Nzone branched out of, what I call back room meta, but it's its own distinct thing.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Further. I need you to go further on that question. Iirc, Funko was on your town list, so you're already reconsidering. Is Funko a possible scummer if Ruy is town too?

At the moment, the only thing I'm certain about is Kantrip, but I'm solving for Ruy/Nabe. I'm leaning one way, but I'm trying to re-evaluate your slot at the moment because how you line up changes a lot.

Funko possible scummer regardless of Ruy's alignment, yeh.

Ruy is town=Funko scum, probably two of my townreads scum, outside shot of Z lucking into extended life.

Ruy is scum=Funko scum, one townread or again Z having lucked into extended life.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Tl;dr "I policy lynched Soup"

And I'll do it again in every single game he does this again.

I literally give no ****s if that is right or wrong.

I will do it every-time, because I refuse to even bothing to play the game of considering if he is sincere or not.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Your Z phrasing is strange. What is your read on him?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

**** it all. Give me your reads list at the moment.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

**** it all. Give me your reads list at the moment.

Town: You, Joey, Kantrip
Bait (therefore likely town but only due to thread position): Nabe
**** this slot: Z
Scum: Ruy, Funko

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Actually no, I like Nabe's analysis post, rephrase that as "townlean but also bait"

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Nononononono.

Give me the description for each. I don't just want the order.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Except I gave perfect clarification on my reasoning. Your just not a fan of them and grasping for straws trying to pull anyone you can under with them.

Pretty sad display.

When you have nearly majority vote and the whole town is pushing that person( soup and pokechu being who I’m referring too here) there is no point to casting any other votes. With he deadline approaching town wasn’t changing.

I flat out said for day 1 shishoe was definitely town.

I knew scum was pushing pokechu day 2 because he would be too ****ing obvious in that pool. And I literally couldn’t do anything in that situation.

Town was against me for not voting pokechu and were still against me for voting him. So I said **** it, I’m not here to please people. I’m here to play the same way as always and try to find scum. And while I was off to a rough start I think I’ve got a good read list going now.

As for soup, yeah I voted him. I said he offered more info than a nabe flip. And I was right. I didn’t like nabes play this game but I figured we were already in trouble so if I had to choose which I did since it was between nabe and soup and no one else really; I went with what I thought was better. There’s nothing wrong there.

I’ve been pretty clear and honest about how my votes worked.

By hey you do you, try to get out that hole tomorrow I wish you luck.

Can you give me a concrete direction you want?

Dooms

Same here, I'm between you two right now but I'd like to know what your overall reads are.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

And I'll do it again in every single game he does this again.

I literally give no ****s if that is right or wrong.

I will do it every-time, because I refuse to even bothing to play the game of considering if he is sincere or not.

I mean that's fine but when nearly all of your pushes look like that, it ain't a good look chief.

Why are you even on Z anyway?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I mean that's fine but when nearly all of your pushes look like that, it ain't a good look chief.

Why are you even on Z anyway?

Still scum, but it's between him and Joey and overall Z has had worse play where as Joey is more of a trust issue.

Only thing giving me pause is thinking this is too easy of a pick like Pokechu was but one I do not regret for that pick.

This one, sure he is my go to pick right now but I am considering that I might be led around right now.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I mean that's fine but when nearly all of your pushes look like that, it ain't a good look chief.

Why are you even on Z anyway?

Except that isn't why I want Nabe for being inactive.

I want him because he hasn't done jack and he refuses to give me anything on the other three in the pool.

He has an order, ok but why?

What about the other players? I don't know.

What did he do yesterday? He interjected with Soup when he was exploding.

Ok, so? It's because he's being actively telling me nothing and most other players. What paper trial do I have on either flip? We got nothing and that has people super scared. And I don't get this in mafia especially when a player is intentionally doing this, like it seems like Nabe has been doing. If he won't give, I prodded him multiple times. What do you expect town to do.

I dipped Z and Soup because of this, I was leaning on doubt and the fact I read day 3 seeing this made me want to lynch him. He gives no content? Not true but even then who cares. I wanted a solution to it rather than for him to slip into lylo without his feet getting wet or leaving me anything to work with.

Nabe holds his cards tight to his chest usually, but not like this.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Soooooooooooo sleepy. Waiting on Alex still.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Hell I wanted Z because his day 2 was gross.

I'm still not trusting of him if I compare him with the rest of the cast.

Only person I wanted for pure policy is Soup, and even then the way he played off it being intentional to get people to side with him never sat right with me.

Nabe isn't cause those inactive Ruy hates, I hate inactives yes but I got more than that for why I dislike Nabe's slot.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

#HBC | Laundry answer Ryker first though if he is tired.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Okay, so whenever Alex gets done with his reads list. I am going to likely respond to that, drop a post with my own thoughts, and go to bed.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

I know this is super early in the game but I never got around to asking: was a large part of your willingness to vote Fire and Soup at EoD because of their pushes on 3K?

For Fire it was the entire reason. Soup not so much, I'll dig back tomorrow. One part that I remember was his posting style, which was blocks of text that felt like odd streams of consciousness in some respects. It felt like he wasn't sure how to approach the player list.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

#HBC | Laundry can you confirm you're still here so I don't go to sleep?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

and who was going to support it?

Ryker and Laundry were gone and they were both on Soup. Soup dipped and Dis got off.

With around an hour left what did you expect me to do when Soup had hate on him and Z was equally up for a lynch.

I’m not setting up dominos nor trying to set up a fall back lynch, I wanted you off the table because you don’t give anything worth reading into outside of this which is weak sauce.

it wasn’t obtainable that is why I switched when it resolved with an hour left.

Joey said no due to no info, you weren’t around, Laundry said Lynch Soup and dipped, Ryker wasn’t around.

so tell me then, what support did I really have?

This is not all I have to say, but did you agree with DtF's assertion that tying the lynch was a sin?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Cheeky **** Laundry liked my post. Ugh ugh ugh. I'm gonna try and make it.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

This is not all I have to say, but did you agree with DtF's assertion that tying the lynch was a sin?

I don’t follow this.

 

[Disfunkshunal]

This is not all I have to say, but did you agree with DtF's assertion that tying the lynch was a sin?

Let's assume I'm scum for a second. These are tie rules:

If there is a tied vote at the end of an odd-numbered phase, there will be one hour of overtime, in which only the players with the tied vote totals may be voted for. All vote counts are reset, and all players may vote again, except the tied players. At the end of this additional hour, the player with the most votes is lynched, or if the tie remains unbroken, a player not involved in the tie is chosen at random and lynched.

Had I let it go to tie, I could have constricted the lynch to an inactive slot I wanted to hang and someone I knew to be town. What could I possibly lose, as scum, by letting it go to a tie? Also, please remind me where I described a tie being anything close to a sin.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

I want him because he hasn't done jack and he refuses to give me anything on the other three in the pool.

Joey is a strong townread for me. Z25 is very likely town. It's on meta, but also regarding his commitment to weird stances it seems like everyone is skating around him, and he looks alone as a result. Ryker I would settle on to remove a question mark. You're who I want.

I don’t follow this.

Funk mentioned ties being a bad thing. Is that true in your estimation?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Let's assume I'm scum for a second. These are tie rules:

Had I let it go to tie, I could have constricted the lynch to an inactive slot I wanted to hang and someone I knew to be town. What could I possibly lose, as scum, by letting it go to a tie? Also, please remind me where I described a tie being anything close to a sin.

You're a wonderful bag of WIFOM. I'll stay out of this one and let you play with Nabe. I don't even have a major bone to pick with you yet, but you are swimming in that WIFOM, holy moly.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Nononononono.

Give me the description for each. I don't just want the order.

Then specify that.

As I said earlier in the phase, your play is exactly in line with what I think you'd do and every time I see you interacting with a slot you're trying to gain information you need to read them. You re-evaluated Kantrip in real time rather than taking the opportunity to body him in a WIFOM-loaded scenario and it looked hella genuine. Your EoD1 looked entirely like you were trying to figure out a lynch and not being sold on any particular direction. Everything you're doing right now is hella obvious as well. You're probably the one slot I'm sure of right now.

I've had Kantrip as town since the pit because of his appearance EoD and it did a lot for him. I also like his interactions with you and the fact that he came to very similar conclusions as you did in the end. His insight in certain clutch moments such as the oddity of how my wagon was generating yesterday when I could have been had as a lynch target D2, especially with slots vocalizing their skepticism of me was strong. His willingness to chase down points until he's satisfied with an answer is also solid.

Joey's willingness to be confident in his reads and continue to pursue them in spite of a thread constantly willing to change its mind seems fairly townie to me for him. He agrees with my PoV a lot. I do like how he tried to step up and lead the day when both you and I weren't going to be here. Admittedly this feels the flimsiest of my townreads but I've seen little reason to be skeptical. I think Funko's points about him being here but not really shifting the thread despite having the potential to do so is the one thing that gives me pause about his play at the moment.

I'm beginning to understand Nabe's PoV a lot better the more he posts. I agree with him that he's likely bait but the fact that he's using that to push the thread in new directions is solid. My suspicions of Funko are built entirely on his points and I actually kinda like him pointing at Fire in the early game too.

I have no ****ing clue how to evaluate Z. His reads are garbage, he's pushed in every direction so it's hard for me to take his scumreads at face value as something he genuinely believes, all of his pressure, particularly D1, read of OMGUS. He pings a lot of the newbscum tells for me. The fact that he has been put in the pit today despite us bodying Poke in a similar position D2 is odd for mafia. Maybe Funko's post about not lynching the scummiest player is more telling than I imagined.

Ruy's pushes have been lackluster. I legit don't remember why he dislikes Z and when I asked him earlier he just said he was scummy, his Soup lynch was pure policy despite the fact that he could have had Nabe, and now his push of Nabe feels like distaste for how Nabe plays the game rather having substantial reasons for Nabe being mafia.

I'm just copping Nabe's read of Funko. That said, his suicidal pact to lynch Joey is strangely timed with how the thread is suddenly shifting towards Ruy and I do find his "maybe we shouldn't lynch the scummiest player" post out of character for town as well.

That's where I'm at. I'm super curious of Fire/3K's connections D1 as well, there might be something there.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Still scum, but it's between him and Joey and overall Z has had worse play where as Joey is more of a trust issue.

I had intended for there to be more than just "still scum". What makes him scum to you?

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Nabe holds his cards tight to his chest usually, but not like this.

I disagree with this, for two counts. One, I don't think he's being that tight with his cards in hindsight. It's there, you just have to dig for it. Both his pushes today and his pushes D1 were definitely motivated and readable. Second, have you considered he just doesn't want to give content to someone he scumreads?