Etrian Nomination Mafia - Endgame: Until the Day the Adventurers Rise Again

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

#HBC | Red Ryu
You still good for replacing in?

I am sure ready to do it.

 

[Z25]

Look I know my thoughts are controversial and not well liked usually but I try to help and contribut. Tomorrow I’ll compile some thoughts.

They might not sound great to some people but we shall see. As always everyone will be free to discuss my views with me and we can go from there. My stances aren’t permanent.

But it’s late here so goodnight all

 

[Z25]

You missed or didn't read. For someone who's current PoV is predicated on him not doing, that's a pretty bad take.

Like, most of my read on that slot is based on the last two hours. This read feels like you didn't bother to update it and just tossed it out there. I don't like it.

Also so I have a response to read on this in the morning.
What do you mean by the first part?

By which I mean what do you mean my point of view is predictated? You mean that my read is based on him not reading or posting?

I think I get what your saying but I’m not to sure. To clarify my thoughts are based on content and forming. I’ll explain this more tomorrow though

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Also so I have a response to read on this in the morning.
What do you mean by the first part?

By which I mean what do you mean my point of view is predictated? You mean that my read is based on him not reading or posting?

I think I get what your saying but I’m not to sure. To clarify my thoughts are based on content and forming. I’ll explain this more tomorrow though

Sure, we can talk tomorrow.

 

[Moydow]

Announcement:
Fire Emblemier has been replaced by #HBC | Red Ryu .

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Current vote count (as of post #764):

• Ryker: 2 (Z25, Kantrip)
• Laundry: 0
• Pokechu: 1 (KY Joey)
• Kantrip: 0

Not currently voting: Ryker, Disfunkshunal, ѕoup, Red Ryu, Laundry, Pokechu, Nabe

10 hours remain in this phase.
With 10 players alive, it takes 6 votes to lynch.

Remember that only the four players listed above may be voted for in this phase! Votes for other players will not count.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Morning!

Z25>Soup>Joey>Nabe/Red Ruy>Disfunk

That's my list for outside the pool atm.

 

[Disfunkshunal]

Had this typed up last night but passed out while going through the thread

Oh hey, a Joey post talking about Z being "straight up scummy."

Disfunkshunal what do you make of the logic here.

Kantrip, can you see if Joey was around when Z looked doable?

Part of my defense of Z does rely on meta and Joey acknowledges in the beginning that he can't bring any to the table. The logic Joey uses is not entirely dissimilar to Kantrip's and looking at Z's own defense in a vacuum, I agree that it does not paint him in the best light.

Overall, the reason why I took more issue with Kantrip's stance is both because he did have meta to rely on and he seemingly ignored it and because Joey seemed open to considering other players as well, sooner and more freely than Kantrip.

 

[Disfunkshunal]

Quick thoughts after catching up:
- I do feel better about Kantrip than I did when the phase first started. Much better actually.
- I see the laundry suspicion and I can conceptualize it but I don't buy it yet. There's been talk about pre-ordering but no one is really selling it yet. There's enough of you that are cautious that I'd like to see a conversation about it.
- Z25 oof that's a hot take with your pokechu opinion. I can respect that you "think differently" but it'd be helpful for me if you broke down his latest string of non-spam posts and told me what you found suspicious about it.

 

[Disfunkshunal]

BTW, at work until deadline. Going to do my best to steal small blocks of time throughout the day to make up for my silence this phase but no promises.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Guess I need to read fast.

 

[Disfunkshunal]

Ok, so basically I'm sitting here looking at:

Laundry who I think is likely town but I am willing to credit as possible to have me pocketed at this point.

Pokechu who, based on what I've seen so far, I ****ing hella doubt is scum. Unless he's banking HARD on the AtE.

Kantrip who I think was put in to make me tear him apart. Maaaaaaaaaaaybe he got the stones and thought he could get a lynch on me. His behavior around Pokechu makes it apparent that scumKantplay wasn't aiming to lynch him, but I don't buy it.

Through mechanics, Laundry is the only one of the people here I would credit as able to put himself in this group, but he's also the player I think is the worst to lose. I imagine that I am in a similar position as Laundry because for the two of us it's really hard to eliminate what the guy just wouldn't be able to do as scum.

Disfunkshunal if you were in my shoes, where should my vote go?

If I were you or if I were me? You mentioned in one of your posts that you were proceeding today with the mindset of "lynch the scummiest choice without worrying about if mafia would put one of their own on the wagon". Looking over your summary analysis here, it feels like your play is Kantrip. Out of all three, your read on him has the most back and forth. That said, of the remaining three, I think Pokechu is smallest lost frankly because of his inconsistent play. Seems like you biggest decision right now is whether to lynch a partly active strong town read or a very active weak one. In your shoes, under the assumption that they're town-sized, I go Kantrip.

 

[Kantrip]

Hi Ryu, lookin forward to playing with you again.

-
Disfunkshunal and others defending Z25 off of meta:

I don't particularly like meta reads except in cases where it helps inform reads based on skill or experience level. You never know who is able to fake "typical" town behaviour of theirs, especially in cases like Z25's where apparently he's never been scum yet? Not sure how anyone can say with confidence how his scum play would differ from his town play if they've never even seen it. I'll grant that some stuff like his reactions can be exhibited in his past town games, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't exist if Z25 was scum.

 

[Disfunkshunal]

If I were me, my play would be different though. Right now my vote is between Ryker and Pokechu. I want to skim through the last day one more time, especially Kantrip/Ryker's page of fun. In the event that I don't find time to come back before deadline, I'm going to drop this here:

VOTE: Pokechu

Again, this is a least bad decision right now. Subject to change. Also, if I missed any questions/comments/whatever directed at me. Tag me and I'll do my best to get to it before end of day.

 

[Disfunkshunal]

Hi Ryu, lookin forward to playing with you again.

-
Disfunkshunal and others defending Z25 off of meta:

I don't particularly like meta reads except in cases where it helps inform reads based on skill or experience level. You never know who is able to fake "typical" town behaviour of theirs, especially in cases like Z25's where apparently he's never been scum yet? Not sure how anyone can say with confidence how his scum play would differ from his town play if they've never even seen it. I'll grant that some stuff like his reactions can be exhibited in his past town games, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't exist if Z25 was scum.

I don't disagree and I'll admit he's running out of the leeway I'm giving to meta justification. I can't say how his scum play would differ for certain but I can speak to how I imagine it would based on what I know of his personality, and how I've seen other, similar people behave in similar situations. It isn't a hard science and perhaps I'm putting too much stock both into meta and into my own understanding of both Z and people like Z. All I can say for certain right now is that he did not feel like the play based on the evidence I had available when I joined the game. I am interested in seeing him expand on his pokechu train of thought. "Thinking differently" was a more valid (read: still not completely valid) point in the beginning when there was nothing to go but he does have much more substantial information to use to fuel his opinions now and I'm interested to see how/if he leverages it

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Your contributions have been to ask about "Mediko", which is I assume flavor related, and now to call out Poke for ****posting, which is not only meta for him, it's also not something he's done exclusively. What's your opinion of his #133, #139, and #140?

Has he taken a stance without worrying about what others think of him in future posts? Has he offered ideas to help town out in future a bit more from here?

you promoted him to give better content, which better than other games i’ve seen pokechu in but my question involves what has he done outside of a prompt from other people?

 

[Disfunkshunal]

Last thing before I dip for a bit, if this is a full town ring, then I am a bit lost. I definitely want to see more from Nabe and Fire-Ryu because right now I don't have strong reads on them. I plan to do ISO's on them and Soup once I get home tonight. I know that Soup has been much more active this day phase but I skimmed over his stuff to make sure I was caught up before deadline today. I also know that Joey's been posting today but I don't remember a lot of what he said off the top of my head.

I want to look at each of those four more thoroughly when I have time.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

This game is a strange one. I'm not used to picking between two options I don't like. I can generally make an option I do like relevant.

Hey, Ryu, whenever you catch up, @me I want a chance to talk to you in real time.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

if you're okay publicly stating your semi-good read of a really controversial slot, why slide it back in so quickly?

Because I think you're all town but have to lynch one of you anyway.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Not trying to be Z25's crusader but he's fodder in the grander scale of things. He just seems like a very reactionary dude. What I said before to me holds relevance in that I feel this is a case of too obvious to be obvious, but in that same regard I've been keeping tabs on Pokechu wherein this behavior is far more intentional for Pokechu and Z25 is just acting out of intuition. I also can't see an active daychat between mates telling them 'vote the random RVS wagon and we'll call it a day'

Thoughts? Kantrip Dooms

pokechu is no different where you have to hold his feet over the fire to make him take a stance on something.

laundry did it lightly but he has that kind of presence to him in general with mafia.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Frown town at Z25 setting up a Pokechu lynch for toMorrow rather than just going for it right now.

I would say toMorrow's lynch should be between people who were not nominated toDay. Soup and Z25 are my choices.

I doubt they're mafia together, not with the way soup's been trying to dissuade the lynch. I'm fine with one or the other though.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Like, most of my read on that slot is based on the last two hours. This read feels like you didn't bother to update it and just tossed it out there. I don't like it.

Not the first time he's done it.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

My motivation to play disappeared yesterday but I'm here now.

#hbc

 

[Kantrip]

I doubt they're mafia together, not with the way soup's been trying to dissuade the lynch. I'm fine with one or the other though.

I agree that soup's wagon diverting looks too blatant to be partner defense, but I wouldn't completely discount the possibility. There's been a recent trend of wagons that gain steam ending up going all the way in an HBC reminiscent fashion that is aided by the short deadlines everyone likes around here. It is possible soup tried to discredit a Z25 push early and something still rubs me the wrong way about his insistence that he wasn't calling Z25 town where I think in the scenario where soup is scum and Z25 is town soup would feel more comfortable throwing out a townread as justification for defending Z25. By saying he sees the scumminess he covers his bases if Z25 does end up getting lynched and flipping scum. The whole "mislynch waiting to happen" and "I never said I townread him" combination just doesn't sit right with me.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Not a bad train of thought. I was wrestling with the idea of why scum!Soup goes that far for scum!Z25 but that's a plausible explanation.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Not the first time he's done it.

This game or in general?

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

This game or in general?

I've never played with him before so this game. It reads similarly to his treatment of 3K last phase.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

So, I'm talking to Alex on discord, but I think this is a question I'm supposed to ask in thread. Are you gonna be willing to pay attention to the thread while we're doing other things this afternoon for EoD or do we have to solve this sooner?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

We're at the point where we have multiple people posting. Do you have any other thoughts or are you still wanting to tackle an inactive? Sticking to your guns is fine and all, but the fact that you were doing it because you thought that was where the lynch was going to go anyways doesn't exactly hold true anymore.



Do you have any other thoughts on the players actively posting? This push is very weak coming from someone that has contributed less.

Is it just the **** posting that you don't like about Pokechu? He's actually contributed a bit. Do you have any thoughts on his actual contributions?

Why? Like Soup said, his #133, #139, and #140 are solid posts that get past the ****posting and give actual stances. Do those not influence your read whatsoever?

I will give those posts are solid, but do you think the fact you had to prod him to do it mean something?

I fibd someone taking an initative on thier own to be far more telling. Pokechu from what I know of firmer, and this applies to shi in a way, he’s gonna post a lot of fluff and you gotta drag content out of him, and even with it Will he act on it? Still is premature for me as a replace in but if I am going on the two-three games I was with Pokechu, it’s a style I find to be inheritly scummy.

Shi feels simular, guessing he got lynched for this whoops.

Those posts are better but will he hold up without prompts? And will he act on it? That is what I would look for.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

I can have the thread open but I will not be focused enough to stay on top of the thread in a part that will likely have a flurry of posts. We're better off solving now IMO.

 

[Kantrip]

To go further I think soup really believed his comments on Z25 were minor and didn't intend or expect them to be construed as a hard defense. I think this is why he was taken by surprise and had to backtrack a bit to his stance that Z25 is scummy when people called out his wagon discouraging which is why there's such a disconnect with his initial comments.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

EBWOP: Unless you think we can leave this in like...Soup or Joey or Ruy or Funko's hands.

 

[Kantrip]

I take it you two (Ryker and Laundry) still trust each other solidly this game? If that's the case, I'd advocate for lynching Pokechu UNLESS you are both extremely confident that he is town and believe that I am still a potential lynch target down the line. I would lie down on my sword if and only if it was because town collectively agreed that all three other targets were absolutely town and I am not.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Alright. Will keep note. Also, I too love Greninja.

zard is better

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

I still think we're all town though and I have no incentive to push in any particular direction because of it. Poke's content is the worst of us and I'm likely to end here because Kantrip has taken initiative without being prodded to do so. It's shallow reasoning but I don't think either of them jump in the pool as mafia and I think your EoD was in line with you when you are looking for good options and not finding any you like.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I take it you two (Ryker and Laundry) still trust each other solidly this game? If that's the case, I'd advocate for lynching Pokechu UNLESS you are both extremely confident that he is town and believe that I am still a potential lynch target down the line. I would lie down on my sword if and only if it was because town collectively agreed that all three other targets were absolutely town and I am not.

Yeah. I've been given no reason other than nomination WIFOM to change my stance on Laundry. I'm still sorting out where to go with the other two slots.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

zard is better

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Charizard-Mega-X: 346-408 (116.4 - 137.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

**** the anime.

 

[Kantrip]

That being said, my perspective is that I believe Pokechu to be town and have reasonable doubt on the other two even though at present time I have no reason to scumread them and like their contributions. So my vote is on Ryker, my least confident townread of the pool, but I'd switch if need be and I'll be around until deadline.

I think I've laid out everything else I'm passionate about. Disfunk and Pokechu I think are my strongest townreads, which in a normal game I wouldn't share but I think it has merit here.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I still think we're all town though and I have no incentive to push in any particular direction because of it. Poke's content is the worst of us and I'm likely to end here because Kantrip has taken initiative without being prodded to do so. It's shallow reasoning but I don't think either of them jump in the pool as mafia and I think your EoD was in line with you when you are looking for good options and not finding any you like.

Yeah. This is where I'm at too.

I said I'd lynch the scummiest, and I think that's Kantrip unless someone can sell me Poke can sell being so completely out of touch that well. But I don't think Kantrip is scum and I would much rather have him later in the game than ****ing Pokechu.

 

[Dooms]

EBWOP: Unless you think we can leave this in like...Soup or Joey or Ruy or Funko's hands.

Don't include me in this. I'm not even going to have the thread open because I don't trust myself lmao.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

What's there to solve then? I think all three of us have ended on a likely conclusion and obviously Poke's not gonna go for it because it's his own hide he's gotta save.