ENTER THE HARDBODY

[ranmaru]

Here is what I think about the hider:

1. Him finding mafia is a 50/50 shot. I mean, he'll get a positive a result on someone who can kill, meaning it can be either mafia or a vigilante.
2. The tracker/vigilante can choose the role of tracker so that if he is investigated, he'll be cleared instead of checked as a possible suspect. Yet, this has the downside of choosing to win over choosing a role that they may like to choose. It's solely up to that person.
3. The detective/psychologist can choose to be the detective so that he can find someone that has killed. We know that if the person hasn't killed, that's just a semi-clear, because they may or may not kill in the future. With the psychologist, they won't know if the person has killed or will kill, which I feel can give scum the advantage. Unless targetting mafia that is killing the same night, doesn't count as seeing mafia that 'has killed'. Probably should clarify with the mod about this in particular. I prefer the detective though.
4. The hider dying behind someone else will be obvious because it will be a double kill, right?
5. With a vig, and a hider dying behind another, that could be as much as 3 kills.
6. If the tracker/vig picks vig, maybe it would be a good idea to delay on shooting n1, so that if a detective targets you on night 1, you aren't instantly suspected the next day. Delaying your shot also makes it hard to guess if you picked tracker or just didn't shoot. Plus, you can then prove yourself by d3 once you shoot n2.

TL;DR:​

• Hypoclaim. I don't mind the idea of everyone claiming hider and choosing a target after the hammer or like at l-1/l-2. (Because remember there isn't that much twilight!)
• Yet, to add on to Kuz's #223, the tracker/vig choosing tracker can eliminate Kuz's 2nd point.
• Choose Detective to get a definite result of 'has killed' therefore possibly being mafia. (Open to discussion of choosing detective over Psychologist)
• Tracker/Vig claims tracker (don't lie D: ) or flips tracker later on, and someone else was tagged as 'has killed' , bam mafia. If Vig, delay your shot n1.

 

[ranmaru]

@Rockin: Ok then. I would like to see what Kary says to that, and then I'll comment on my thoughts on that.

@PJB: Ok thanks. You still haven't answered, what is your thoughts on J and Kuz? Also, you fail to respond to Soup's #306. What's your thoughts on his explanation?

@Swords (#236):

1 9
2 6
3 5
4 11
5 3
6 13
7 4
8 1
9 12
10 2
11 8
12 10
13 7

I think it's just that you are pairing a number with the next, leaving 13 with it self. In this case, I randomized the number each number gets so everyone gets a different person.

Now then. Why aren't you voting Hilt now? (Since you unvoted me) What is your opinion on J and kuz?

 

[#HBC | marshy]

votecount 1.07​

kuz (1) - circus​

circus (1) - nabe​

rockin (1) - kary​

ranmaru (4) - j kataefi bardull kuz​

kary (1) - rockin​

kataefi (1) - hilt​

sworddancer. (1) - ranmaru​

soup (1) - pj​

not voting (2) - soup sworddancer.​

​

voting log​

soup -> j -> none​

pjb -> soup​

rockin -> sworddancer. -> kary​

j -> circus -> ranmaru​

ranmaru -> j -> rockin -> sworddancer.​

circus -> kuz​

sworddancer. -> j -> none -> ranmaru -> none​

nabe -> circus​

kuz -> j -> soup -> ranmaru​

kataefi -> kuz -> sworddancer. -> ranmaru​

hilt -> bardull -> kataefi​

kary -> hilt -> rockin​

bardull -> kuz -> ranmaru​

​

d1 ends 3/15 11:59:59 pm est​

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

This is me not fulfilling what I said I was going to do earlier today. Wish I could say it was just studying, but slacking did have a part in it.

Anyways, for now I'll just post my reads list and explain later.

Town:

Ran
Kuzi
Kary
PJB

town lean:

J

null:

Circus
Nabe
BarDull

People who I want to look into:

Katefti
Soup
Hilt
Rockin

The way I'm looking at it is that I got four people who I'm fairly sure are town, and I need to find the other five.

Most paranoid of Katefi for the time being, but need to clarify things. Hilt brought up an interesting point about Kat and despite how much more he has contributed than most people, I can't but shake the feeling that his scumhunting in not genuine. Either more on this tonight or tomorrow.

 

[ranmaru]

I propose we lynch inactives if the inactivity doesn't pick up by deadline, which is in 4 days. Swords, what is your opinion on that?

I look forward to your explanation. I'll be heading to bed soon.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

My bad guys I've been a bit busy today and will be tonight as well. Ran/PJB are 2 players I wouldn't mind gone. Ran is unconvincing - why didn't he declare internet problems earlier when he was observing the thread and as we were *****ing about him publicly? I've actually skimmed recent posts so when I'm around tomorrow I can look into his ones in a bit more detail and see if anything changes, but really I just don't get why any player would manifest a read out of completely nothing, especially when he said earlier he'd be saving his vote until later in the game, which makes me think he'd at least think things through a bit more rationally, right?...

PJB I find to be *****footing around doing nothing important. Aren't we all supposed to be scumhunters? Where is his vote and pressure? I don't think he's engaging with his scumspects at all, even if he has any...

I'm going to be looking into Soup/Bardull as well.

I'm liking Kary/J/Kuz and maybe Nabe. Everyone else is floating around in space

@Kuz your plan sounds good but not as a strategy we should use throughout the entirety of the game! I ran some numbers on my very retro calculator and the hider role becomes a risky one assuming a worse-case scenario toDay (hitting Town). There's a 1/3 chance in dying toNight with no vig. Obviously the odds continue to get worse as the game progresses.

I think a strat like this should be used toDay and possibly D2, and then not used beyond this. We don't want our hider dying mid-game when lynches are more crucial and there are 2 other roles that yield potentially good results. Also, one role we should all refuse to discuss is the detective/psychologist, because it's a big mixup that causes a lot of stress for our dear scummies on the run.



Er, where did you get twice from? Also there's nothing safe in calling for the death of a player at that stage in the game. If anything it's quite dangerous. Extremely safe players would be those who haven't placed their votes... can I invite you talk to about these players?

This is honestly probably the one post that bugged me the most about Kat's play. However, upon looking at it again, I'm a bit more hard pressed than before to actually call it scummy. Originally I was hating on it because I di think that he was being fair to Ran or PJB. Like how Kuzi accused Soup earlier of looking like a scummer who was trying to pick an easy target to suffocate, I to thought this about Kat's post to Ran and PJB. Too easy targets for any scummer. PJB because yes, he did look like he was pussey footing around at the time (but I don't believe this about him anymore) and the whole "he's needs to vote someone!" thing is so generic to me (and this I still don't like about Kat), and Ran, who everyone was on. Futhermore, why not give Ran a chance? I was thinking, "Are you so sure that Ran is lying that you won't consider that he's telling the truth about not having internet?"

Then I realized that Kat's suspicion at the time was probably warranted. PJB did very much seem to be fence sitting, so calling him out for it was called for. More so just not liking how he called him out (" Aren't we all supposed to be scumhunters? Where is his vote and pressure? I don't think he's engaging with his scumspects at all, even if he has any..." <- this just comes off way too generic for my tastes). Ran on the other hand, well I guess further pressure was necessary, but I do wish Kat actually responded to what Ran said about why he stated suspicion over BarDull, rather than simply reststating how contrived it seemed.

Notes up to this part:

Spoiler

Katefi's manner of speach is consistent with how I'll expect Katefi to normally talk. Plus Katefi does seem to give a lot of reasoning about several different people. He definitly makes more of an effort than a lot of other pleayers so far this game. +1.

Now lets see if my paranioa about him is legit.

Right off the bat Kat gives me a weird vibe with his 89. Why does he need the J wagon explained at all? Doesn't he kow that it's a joke?

-.1

I don't think his suspicion of Ran is really that scummy. The way he pressured was understandable and so is him thinking that Ran's suspicion of BarDull is contrived. However, it would have been better had he seen it from the PoV that scum usually doesn't TRY to make cases that seem o flimsy.

Plus, if you read Ran's oringal post, you'll see that he even admitted in it that BarDull was "probably just being dumb."

+.2

@121: If you were confused by Kary and I, then why didn't you ask us any questions?

This is a more minor point, but it kinda works into this intuition I have about you not genuinely scumhunting.

-.1

Null on 190-192.

Post like 198 is something else that bugs me a little. Throughout the game Katefi calls people out on "not scum hunting" a lot, and it's were my fear of him being "mechanical" comes from. Him questioning my motives and adding that it's "not conductive to finding scum" his loaded because it makes the assumption that that's what I was trying to do in the first place. At the very least he admits that I'm null though in the next post and that, in actuallity, I might be leaning town. Still though, -.1.

Post 200 shows KAt being observant. Good. +.1.

Still reading Kat.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

I think it's just that you are pairing a number with the next, leaving 13 with it self. In this case, I randomized the number each number gets so everyone gets a different person.

Now then. Why aren't you voting Hilt now? (Since you unvoted me) What is your opinion on J and kuz?

Ignore that whole thing I said about people pairing up. Either we go in a circle or everyone just claims to hide behind whoever they like.

Kuzi town, just wish he wasn't v/la right now but oh well. He was linking up with my thought process to well to be scum IMO. He voted Soup when I voted Soup. He voted you when I was suspicious of you. Also really dig his reads and explanation for them, even if there are a couple that I still need to check out for myself. It's the intention that counts after all.

Also wish he would give me his location to I can visit him.

J leans town, but really needs to get active and comment on recent events. So far all we have from him is an early case on you. While his case was thoughtfully put together, it's not enough now to sustain a solid town read on him.

I propose we lynch inactives if the inactivity doesn't pick up by deadline, which is in 4 days. Swords, what is your opinion on that?

I look forward to your explanation. I'll be heading to bed soon.

EHhhhhhhh. .. . . . This is actually kinda a flaw in the hider plan. I mean, I'll much rather make use of a vig to get rid of those inactives imo.

IF we seriously lack any leads and inactivity is a problem, then sure. But tbh I'll rather consider going through with the hider plan and just having the vig/tracker go vig and shoot off an inactive imo.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Should have said "when I wanted to vote Soup" in my last post.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Your 125 and 191. In both posts you chime in on the topics lightly, only to say that you're going to wait to give your actual opinion. It hardly serves a purpose other than giving you the image of being involved.

I hardly think that players that haven't placed a vote whatsoever are playing safe. You can't cruise through like that, you can't go under the radar. Especially with the vote log, they'll be put on the spot like it's nothing. And I'm not necessarily talking about vote placement, your approach to the conversations on J, Bardull (to an extent) and Swords/Soup are what I'm talking about. Your 200 on Swords/Soup was really what got my attention first, and I read through to see more of it in your other posts.

Ran your posts felt really... defensive. Sure, you're being pushed for today's lynch, but even in your last post on your reads, you were hardly able to keep from gravitating each point from yourself. I can't decide if your reads were defensive in nature and you base them off of how someone interacts with you or not.

For the record I reread 125, 191 and 200. It is true posts 190-192 are useless outside of answering/responding to people and asking one measly question, and 125 and 200 Kat doesn't go full hardbody, but I'm not really seeing Kat trying to "give an image of 'being here'." Kat has made bigger posts where he does get much more involved (like the one I quoted above) and picking out a couple of small, nearly useless posts feels like cheery picking.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Curiously, what was the point of your indie statements? And why did you consider joining the ran wagon only after I called you Town?

What? I'm just claiming indie because I am? Problem?

I only considered joining the Ran wagon after you started town reading because I'm scum and I saw it as an opportunity to join a popular wagon. Had you not town read me, I would never have joined the Ran wagon, because as scum I am cowardly and need approval from players who have yet to mention me in the course of the entire game.

Spoiler

Btw I may not be being entire serious, nor am I trying to be snarky. How can one tell a joke without sounding like a prick? My life's dilemma.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

So yeah I'm actually pretty much done rereading Kat. My conclusion is that my paranoia is mostly unjustified. Still some aspects of his play that I don't like, most of which arise from his 259.

Also

@Kat: What's your current read on Ran and PJB?

 

[BarDulL]

Can't type up a post until I get to a computer, which will be tomorrow. Good news is I'm all caught up.

 

[Kataefi]

Omg so much to comment on and such little time! I will get to things after work.

This I can answer:

Still some aspects of his play that I don't like, most of which arise from his 259.

@Kat: What's your current read on Ran and PJB?

At the bolded, if you can list these in an orderly, that helps me a lot. Also as a sidenote: i'm struggling to find a way to ISO people (this is most challenging) and have become slightly addicted to Sim City... but where there's a will, there's a way

I'm turning a new leaf on Ran. I'm being too irrational in my pursuit and hanging on to something in the early game that might be pointless. I quite like where he's going with some of his questions. I dislike how he brought the Detective/Psychologist role into discussion however. This role should be coin-tossed imo.

PJB I still dislike. I didn't like how he was essentially eyeing up wagons to join and only when called out does he join and push soup with ferocity - this looked a bit scripted to me, perhaps he's worried about how he comes across? Also I disliked the way he was begrugdingly in favour of the plan... if it can yield results, it's a good thing, right?

Let me see what else I can respond to quickly

 

[Kataefi]

Ranny did you ask me about where you'd save your vote? It's from here:

I am saving my vote for until the game gets to a point where I can easily gauge the swag levels.

^I assumed this was your general strat, as in you'd ask questions first and vote next, even if it is a light-hearted post. This is why I found your initial reads worth looking into because a) they looked serious and b) it didn't feel like there was any buildup to them, as if they popped up from nowhere irrationally.

 

[Kataefi]

Hilt and Swords ur posts are too long. Why is it I always attract the keyboard heroes? I'll get to you guyz after work!

And where is everyone? Soup has gone, Kuz has gone, Bardull came and went, Circus comes and goes, J has vanished, Nabe is still not posting... it's difficult gauging the game when nearly half the playerlist isn't here

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I'm here. For the most part. I find myself twiddling my thumbs if anything. I'm getting kinda impatient though with Kuz.

 

[ranmaru]

was your general strat, as in you'd ask questions first and vote next, even if it is a light-hearted post. This is why I found your initial reads worth looking into because a) they looked serious and b) it didn't feel like there was any buildup to them, as if they popped up from nowhere irrationally.

Hahahaha! Oh this! Well, just so you know... I did save that vote. I was talking about the poll about the thread's swag. I still haven't used it. I'll save it for when there is an extreme amount of swag that would make me dizzy. To be clear, I wasn't talking about an in-game vote.

 

[ranmaru]

I'm here. For the most part. I find myself twiddling my thumbs if anything. I'm getting kinda impatient though with Kuz.

Yo bro. Stop waiting for Kuz, don't let him dissapoint you. I want to see you doing things as well.

Btw, you say you are getting impatient with kuz. Is this affecting your read on him?

 

[Kataefi]

Omg what a flop! THANKS, SWAG POLL...

I say we have a party. where's my gif?

Ranny you mentioned something about going after inactives... who would you kill off the bat right now?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Yo bro. Stop waiting for Kuz, don't let him dissapoint you. I want to see you doing things as well.

Btw, you say you are getting impatient with kuz. Is this affecting your read on him?

Not really, but I want to gauge something specific with him before I move on.

 

[ranmaru]

I would choose Nabe. Pretty null and has been away for a long time. Some of the others I want to see if they'd fulfill their promises. How about you, who would you choose to kill off the bat from the inactives, Kat?

 

[ranmaru]

Yes, let's party!

 

[Kataefi]

Off the top of my head I'd choose one of Bardull/Soup out of the peeps laying low at this moment. I quite like Nabe but I agree he needs to post more, same with Circus. Soup mainly because now that he's made a "mistake" on Swords and went all emo... where does that leave him now? I don't know a lot about him outside of this. I'd like him to find a footing on the game and not lay so low, especially with that vote.

I need to look into Bardull more as I've seen him eyeing up the thread a couple of times and running away. I accept he's likely reading the game. It's more to do with why he joined ur wagon - he stated he found what you said contrived... but not scummy... then suddenly goes on to talk about what you did a lot and then force himself to place a vote on you... despite supposedly not finding what you did scummy? Seems strange...

Ran do you know how to ISO?

 

[ranmaru]

I agree. I would rather Soup be here and be my bro instead of not being here at all. I'm interested in what Bardull has to say about that.

No I don't. I wish, haha. So far the only thing I know is clicking 'reply' and letting it copy paste in the quick post and doing that with the other posts as well (they add on). I would love to see an ISO system like Mafia Scum's. (Search the people playing in that thread from a drop down box, and pick them, and bam, all of their posts without having to click on them to see what it says!!!)

 

[ranmaru]

Clarification: I'm interested in what Bardull has to say about why he joined the wagon.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Sometimes, you have to mediate yourself and do things for the sake of making things easier on yourself. My dismissive play and quiet attitude is something I'm choosing to do, but I have purpose behind it. I can't get you to see that more as an excuse really, but you think I would just let myself fall this behind and try and be cautious afterwards? I don't have a reason to, the pressure on Swords did not really give me that much flak and some people, even to my surprise, agreed with me. This isn't about being emo or anything as you put it, it's simply just preference. Is there anything you really want to know, Kat?

 

[Kataefi]

Is there anything you really want to know, Kat?

I really want to know your vote plz. Who is scum right now? No point wasting time being quiet... with 4 days left

Also can you comment on why you're waiting on Kuz before you do more in the thread?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

with 4 days left

Didn't realize deadline was coming that close. Alright, I'll bite. I want you to refer my #267 to Kuz. My original intention was to get Kuz to respond to that, and then slowly out my thought process. This was necessary because It would help me read Kuz easier, as I feel my town-read on him is not as clarified as it should be. Circus actually makes me think about this more and how he's treating certain issues. I don't how hard it would be to answer me or at least acknowledge what I want from him for so damn long. The same purpose for Circus voting Kuz might not be the same for me, but it's got me looking that way. The general feeling I get from things like this is that Kuz is playing things to his advantage rather than to the benefit of others. It recalls me to his earlier play when he was reaction testing J, or playing around with whatever else. I gave him benefit of the doubt back then because I would have expected him to produce, and produce he did, but something feels off about it all. The reads-list is not a problem in itself, it's rather the reads-list comes so pragmatic and by the time he's laid out all his cards, he goes rather silent like he's done all the work he needs to. This doesn't sit well with me, and I feel like Kuz is trying to look good instead of actually being good. There's also the need to ease players by subtly buddying them, like he did with Swords' when he provided his own case on Ranmaru, Or his assurance to J after all that RVS stuff. The feeling I got from all that only adds more to my list, but I think that going on all assumptions instead of hearing from the man himself would prove to be less beneficial. This is why I waited. What do you think of Kuz, Kata? Could you also answer the questioned I posed in #267? You seem to be sitting your vote on Ranmaru still and I'm curious as to how you feel about everyone else who is/has been on this wagon.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Other players I wanted to address were PJB and Rockin. I feel both are in the same boat as far as activity and commitment, but they are different players with different mindsets. The feeling I get from PJB when he's pushing me is that he's being assertive about it. Instead of backing down with being questioned, he's stuck with his vote on me. I actually like this kind of behavior from him because it tells me that he's more interested in pursuing his scum-reads instead of just trying to 'find the right play.' Content aside from there might be sparse, but I also know he's not the most active. Rockin, however, feels completely different and I don't get that feeling. Just because something is an 'easy push' doesn't mean that it isn't worth pushing. I haven't cared for Rockin this whole game and I certainly don't care for him now.

Recall his #202.

I don't understand the need to vote Kary here and even Kuz happens to agree with it. The need for pressure here just for one question, and not even exactly answering it in the first place comes off like a knee-jerk reaction.

Kuz actually picks up on this too.

Never once has he explained his reason for voting me and is now asking someone his thoughts without even explaining his own. It's scummy cause he could piggy back behind said reason.

'dude, what you think of rockin?'

'I think he's totally scummy because of that RVS vote'

'woah! That's the same thing I was thinking!

Pot calling the kettle black? I really haven't seen something so cut and dry in a long time. I haven't specifically looked at the rest he's done.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I really want to know your vote plz.

It's either landing on Kuz or Rockin at the moment, but not yet. I don't vote unless there's a purpose and I feel that the vote will help me get something out of a player.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Hilt, I was the only serious thing to happen. I don't think there was anything else to be suspicious of. If there is something I missed that you think is major, I'll look at it again and tell you what I think.

You're right, I did miss this. The main point in your 256 that stuck out to me was your stance on swords. The first paragraph on him was fine, an introduction of sorts. The second one however you go hard defense. You spend much less time talking about Swords and your opinion on him, and almost the entirety of it defending yourself. You noticed it to when writing it, thus the "anyways" opening for the third swords paragraph. And it seemed, at that point, that you were using that second section as a small tangent. But even your third paragraph felt similar.

You're correct in that you were a large part of what was happening at the time being, and to leave your accusations unattended would have been a terrible idea. I feel like your stance on swords would have gone over much better if it had been kept short. Your defense would have been fine elsewhere, even if still directed to him. The fact that you wove the two together the way that you did made it feel more like a retaliation than anything. I didn't like it.

 

[ranmaru]

Hmm, now that I'm reading it again, I see what you mean. Retaliation? What do you mean by that? I see that I probably should have separated it into a separate post, but the main reason for including that was also to make sure he and others understood my meta. If people are going to push me with meta, they should have it well researched. It was 'wove together' simply because I got off-topic. I take responsibility for that mistake.

 

[ranmaru]

Btw Hilt, I want your opinions on J and Kuz. Also, what inactive(s) would you be for killing today and why?

 

[ranmaru]

Also, how has your read on Kat progressed?

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Like your Soup's stances on Rockin and Kuz. Kuz is someone I've had problems reading so far this game. He's gotten an amount of vouching and I allowed that to cloud my judgement on him. Planning to run through their posts myself to see if it matches up with the points he made. PJB I'm not a fan of, but pretty much solely for inactivity reasons. Nabe I can't decide one way or another.

Kat I still don't like, but I'm not expecting a lynch on him today by any means. Swords brought a lot of Kat to light for myself, perhaps keeping me from getting carried away. I don't want the points dropped entirely, however. He's still the player I'm suspicious of the most, but we're down to four days for D1 and I don't see his lynch on the menu. I'll most likely switch my vote soon.

Ran and Bardull I don't want killed today. I feel like Bardull will bring more to the table in time and Ran has already begun to do so. The Ran wagon's always felt off to me, even though there are some points I don't like about his character. Bardull isn't the type of inactive I like to see killed off early.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

*Like Soup's stances on Rockin and Kuz

Switched from 2nd to 3rd person immediately, haha.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Ninja'd, didn't see your post originally, Ran. I feel like I managed to have an answer in there for everything but your J request. I haven't paid much mind to J outside of the beginning of the game. I don't have a solid stance on him but I can cook one up.

I'm also not a fan of Nabe, forgot to mention him.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

If my post(s) didn't go enough into my current opinions on the inactives, let me know. I'll try to expand on them.

 

[ranmaru]

They were fine. Looking forward to your J stance when you can.

 

[Kataefi]

I'm not gonna be available for a quite a bit cos i actually have to work BUT Hilt didn't you originally vote Bardull? Presumably you wanted to draw information out of him? Where is this information that I seem to be missing? Didn't he come in once, talk about what everyone was talking about Ranny... and then leave?