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[th3kuzinator]

Coolio do you have any scumreads besides Ran?

 

[Rockin]

Circus, what do you think of Rockin's #184?

Why don't you tell others (including Circus) what you're thoughts are?

Unvote Vote: Kary

Need to do another look into the Bardull posts, as well as PBJ.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Rockin wtf was that.

 

[th3kuzinator]

What's your reason for voting Kary? It couldn't just be what you quoted, that isn't scummy in the slightest. Plus Kary probably had some agenda by asking Circus that question, why would you interject yourself in there?

 

[Rockin]

What's your reason for voting Kary? It couldn't just be what you quoted, that isn't scummy in the slightest. Plus Kary probably had some agenda by asking Circus that question, why would you interject yourself in there?

Never once has he explained his reason for voting me and is now asking someone his thoughts without even explaining his own. It's scummy cause he could piggy back behind said reason.

'dude, what you think of rockin?'

'I think he's totally scummy because of that RVS vote'

'woah! That's the same thing I was thinking!'

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Uhm Hilt, why Bardull? What an odd pick of the inactives to pressure if I am being blunt. Why not Rockin or PBJ? (moreso the former)

As two quick notes: I would like to see more of Soup vs. Swords but I am leaning on disliking Soup the more this argument goes and liking Swords more because I find myself nodding along with Swords and scratching my head at Soup. I'll provide what I mean later because I agree with not wanting to clutter the thread too much as it is. But yeah Soup vs. Swords i don't know whether to call it scum vs. town but in a battle of who I trust/like more out of the fight, I'd have to say Swords.

I also don't like Kary's 139 because it seems....cop outty since that the only word coming to mind. He just seems to be sweeping his Ran read under the rug with a blanketed "Ran is always like this." meta reasoning. Kary is just confusing so far because his posts have fluff but not and then he makes bizarre statements which don't seem to reach a higher level of understanding which I am used to. Could just be laziness/having fun but I want to see more from Kary.

Kary, you have directed a bit of your questions to Kuzi. Can you give me a read on him and what do you think of Kata's vote on Ranmaru since you (I assume) dislike the wagon on him at the moment presented by myself and Kata.

@Kuzi: Since it seems Soup has answered your question, can I get a response to mine now?

J, quite a few people have been dissenting from the Ran wagon as of this point in the game. Thoughts on them? Do you agree/disagree with their reasoning? If you still think Ran is a good wagon, then why should I join it?

Kary's 139 is basically just an abridged version of why I'm not on the Ran wagon. Is there a difference between us for you?

Also, your implying here that you dislike Rockin more than BarDull. Why does any of the inactives stand out to you?

I'd like to say sorry for being an idiot and misreading something. Sword, I thought #103 was to Ranmaru and responding to him, not Kary. My argument crumbles completely and I think that's why you didn't understand me. I feel embarrassed that I made such a dumb mental error. I wanted to play this like #hbc #notimeforwalls for the sake of marshy game, but I find myself not satisfied with the results.

I read your wall but going on about a broken topic and logic is not worth it. The feelings I had for your slot and play were incessantly there, however, just that it was stemming on the fact I thought you were backing down on Ranmaru trying to dismiss yourself as just being Nervous and ignoring him completely. I think not everything is completely busted however, and that even if it's not in the specific context, this interaction was fruitful. I thought about considering a couple of other things, but when I get down to what I said, they all come off as personal gripes. I'm not going to go on about this further because it's dumb in the first place and two there are other things I wanted to say.

I'll get to that in anothe rpost.

I find myself a bit frustrated because in my head I'm playing double-standard with myself.

I think J's effort and case on Ranmaru is good, but I don't think the push is correct. I don't see anything inherently bad with Ranmaru at all, and I felt like he was just being Ranmaru. His jumping to conlcusions attitude seemed rather more townie and something I would expect for him to do, along with the fact I don't feel that most scum would try and put themselves out there like that, because it really is reaching.

I have more to say, but my ride is here.

Damn straight you back down.

Anyways though, I noooooooot going to let this completely go, because I am aware it's within your power as scum to try to manipulate me and others with this whole "Oh **** my bad guys" post.

However, I do believe that you're being genuine, so I forgive you.

I just don't forget.

Also agree with you on liking J's Ran case but simply thinking he's wrong on it.

@Soup, Sword: I want updated scumpicks from both of you.

Not going to post anymore until I hear from Ranmaru/inactives. Don't want to clutter the thread.

Right now, J, Ran and Soup are town leans. If Ran still hasn't responded by the time I'm done catching up, then he'll drop down to null for me. No real scum picks for the time being.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

*still reading btw*

 

[DtJ Hilt]

I see people representing Ran's actions stating it is in his meta to do something like this as Town. It is in our best interest that he is here representing himself instead. Where art thou Ranny Scotts??? That early read on Bard needs fleshing out because unlike his read on Swords, it is based on a strange post...

While yes, Ran does need to show up and express his opinions, others defending him based on meta speaks a lot more than him doing the like. What do you think about Ran getting the bit of defense we've seen?

I must be reading this wrong?

I really don't like this post. Nabe took out a pretty serious chunk of the paragraph he quoted, which seriously changed the post. I can't tell if this was on purpose or just laziness without a want to read into the post, sticking with the initial reaction that he got when reading it. And that being the only thing he says coming back into the day?

Question: What do you think about Swords? Do you think his "nervous" comments/responses/AtE (whatever you wanna call it) are telling of him? Is there anything of note you have of a stance on one way or another? We're a good two days in now, after all.

Liking Bardull atm, his posts are solid. My vote could probably have been used better elsewhere.

Kat bothers me, like every one of his posts have made me cringe so far. Twice now he's talked about "reserving judgement" or waiting, as well as sitting on the fence whenever possible. Doesn't make a solid stance but makes sure to chime in on the major topics of discussion to seem like a presence. Playing extremely safe.

Actually... omg! I've just realised something. I'm null on both in terms of reads, though at this most present time I think I might be starting to lean Town on swords!

i think the ran wagon needs some development because i've seen him look at the thread multiple times now and run away... which is wasting time!

I see people representing Ran's actions stating it is in his meta to do something like this as Town. It is in our best interest that he is here representing himself instead. Where art thou Ranny Scotts??? That early read on Bard needs fleshing out because unlike his read on Swords, it is based on a strange post...

I don't have any strong scumpicks at this moment, but Kat is the closest to it at the time being.

Vote: Kataefi

Nabe bothers me, Soup I'm not sure how I feel about, but he's leaning towards town. Ran needs to talk, especially with the attention he's getting.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Threat to "myself" is, again, too vague of a question. Who do I think would push for my lynch? Surely that's not a question worth asking, is it? If not, what else could you have meant? Maybe it's moreso the usage of "threat", now. I don't personally feel threatened.

But when it comes to who's a "threat" to town, right now it's the obvious answers of those that threaten activity. To go into my response to J, I had completely even forgotten that PJB was in this game. That's my excuse on that end, I tend to lose track of what isn't around. When Bardull posted his seemingly random vote during the closing of RVS, I wondered if he'd leave it at that or become a presence. But we aren't that deep into the game yet, so a bit of effort wouldn't necessarily be late.

As for Rockin, I've always been of a mind to split the pressure if possible, when it comes to inactives. At least when there's plenty of daylight left. He already has two votes on himself 24 hours in, I don't think my vote being the third on him will be more useful than the vote on Bardull. PJB is still an empty presence, I'd like to see more pressure on him, but focusing too much on every single inactive constantly isn't entirely a step in the right direction.

That said, I like the nature of the Soup wagon.

I'm assuming that you like the nature of the Soup wagon for the same reasons J and Circus outlined (I'm assuming this because they are the only people so far to give pro-sworddancer reasons and/or antii-Soup reasons. Kuzi voted Soup but didn't say why). What do you think of Soup admitting to being wrong? If you like the nature of the Soup wagon, why not join it?

I must be reading this wrong?

Noooo?

"Every scum game I'm in I get nervous."

What I was saying is the truth. Every scum game I'm in I get nervous.

I get that you think that I might have made a typo here that may be mistaken for a slip, but I'm not seeing it.

J pinned it pretty well back then, that's just Kuz being Kuz. Right now I have a tentative town-read on him because I can understand it. I'm certain he'll produce result. Is there something specific that is bothering you about him? Your read comes off more or less as lack of understanding than anything.

Ehhh, not to interrupt, but Kary didn't really have a read on Kuz, and honestly I can see why. Kuz hasn't really done much, so I don't see the point in giving him a town read.

Kary indicated that he didn't have a read on Kuz, so why would something be bothering him?

BarDull, what's your current read on J? Have you read the whole thread before making that post?

@Hilt: Same thing with Soup. You like the nature of the Soup wagon, but you didn't join it. Now you're stating dislike for BarDull, but no vote? Who are your scumpicks?

Sheesh, one day pass, and I'm considered inactive? lol



Nah, that's my RVS. I tend to be silly with my votes early on till discussion comes up. That's when I get more serious. I thought you knew that part about me XD

I never really understood why there was a sudden wagon on J. Never saw anything scummy from him (even now).

I'm not really a fan of the whole Soup Vs. Swords, mostly cause nothing is being contributed/benefited from the exchange. Just two people talking about nothing important. I also do not like Sworddancer showing his 'nervousness' so openly, and thus makes me hesitant to hold my hand to him. He needs to shape up and start hunting scum like the boss he's suppose to be.

I find Ran's reasoning laughable. Either desperate scum trying to pick off a possible easy lynch, or silly townie. Too early to call either.

Not liking Hilt either. Picking off easy pressure that won't answer back. There's been some discussion mentioned and instead goes for the inactive so as to not contribute. Scummy

Swords, Soup, anyone you feel is scummy and why?

Man, I'm human to. I'm not always "a boss." I can have feelings. =(

Again though, the whole "nervousness" thing was because I was asked about it. You really wouldn't have known about it had I not said anything.

Agree with your read on Hilt.

Also read the VERY beginning of the thread (not just the game) and you'll see why we wagoned J so early.

Swords did you ask me something about the J wagon? I didn't know how serious the wagon. Technically I'm in limbo waiting for someone to explain it to me, but that moment might have passed... Maybe kuz can explain his rvs approach?



Circus where is your vote? Can you elaborate on this?

I just wanted to see if you thought the J wagon was serious. If you did, then I actually would have found THAT to be suspicious, because it clearly wasn't.

But yeah don't bother anymore.

Actually... omg! I've just realised something. I'm null on both in terms of reads, though at this most present time I think I might be starting to lean Town on swords!

i think the ran wagon needs some development because i've seen him look at the thread multiple times now and run away... which is wasting time!

If this is true then I can totally change my read on Ran.

Vote: Ran

Yeah Kat, I know you don't like meta, but what you described it actually consistent with how I feel about scum Ran.

To me, Ran IS one of those players that you can get away with meta on. This may seem like a weak base, but I base my meta on scum Ran on the quick three man game that me, Ran and BarDull were in. While me and BarDull battled it out, Ran went under the radar, claiming that he didn't have time for the game. However, he still did have post in a much more active, 13 man game while our game was going on.

What I'm saying is that I'm used to scum Ran being lurky.

Also, viewing a thread several times but not responding really is just scummy on its own right, with meta or not. Meta just compounds this for me. So I'm willing to change my read on Ran and lend you a hand.

I realize this kinda nullifies my questions towards J, but whatever. I don't really care to have those specific questions really answered anyways.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Unvote; Vote: Ranmaru

@PJB: I see you viewing, give me something of interest. I want something you find scummy, not just town reads.

@J: Let me know if you're here and not just lurking I want to bounce some reads of you

 

[th3kuzinator]

Sword ninja still think he's only at l-2

 

[th3kuzinator]

Good, post was good, Tinydancer.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

The scummiest things I see is Swords and Soup going after each other. I don't think it's entirely unreasonable to think there's a scummer in there, but I wouldn't throw the possibility of TvT out the window either. I think there's something there, but I don't think it'll be useful until later in the game, when more than 2 things have happened.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

This is exactly is what I'm not giving him a town-lean for. By saying that he normally does it as scum he's making it look like he's innocuous and isn't afraid to tell the truth. It's made to engender responses exactly like this.

Not enough meat as I've already said but don't give him anything for this. So easy to do as scum.

Hehhehehe, the same thing I did to fool Circus in Liar mafia. Do things that scum "would never do."

But don't worry, I actually am indie town this game.

^It's also strange. I mean what is the point in highlighting insecurities in a game of mafia of all places? How is this condusive to finding scum?

@Swords: what have you learned from how people have mentioned/interacted with you up until now? A lot of your time is taken up by Soup --> are you leaning scum?

It wasn't conductive to finding scum. It was conductive to defending myself.

Was leaning scum during the time of the interaction, but now I'm leaning town. I believe that he was being genuine when he admitted that his case on me was based on faulty grounds.

As for the rest of my reads, it goes:

Ran and Hilt leaning scum.
J leaning town. Rockin and Kary very slightly leaning town.

Null on everyone else.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Good, post was good, Tinydancer.

You know Kuzi, you really haven't been doing much this game, but your reads are good so actually you can be town to.

@PJB: Where is the scumminess in me vs. Soup? Also, we've stopped our attack on each other. Does this influence your opinion at all?

Tbh you didn't really give a position at all, just stated that it was either SvT or TvT. Well, duh. So were do you stand?

 

[th3kuzinator]

Here's where I stand currently:

Town:
BarDulL
J
Sworddancer.
Kary
Kataefi

Null:
Rockin
PrivateJoker-Brown
Circus
Nabe

Scum:
soup
DtJ Hilt
Ranmaru

Top being most townie and bottom being least. I definitely think if we lynched from Rockin down we'd win but I have a feel from Circus down would yield the same effect.

Soup is hella scummy, regardless of his mixup with who Sword was addressing. Though I do think he genuinely made an error, I don't like the way he pushed his side. The tone forceful and too strong to merit the information he had on Sword, even if his reasoning was correct. I also don't like that his vote has not landed anywhere after the RVS push on J. He's kind of refrained from pushing scum after his merit for Sword dropped, and has mostly resorted to giving up town-picks. I think he feels unsure of where he wants to currently push. I also dislike his dismissive nature of Bardull's post which I actually thought was quite logical coming from someone like Bardull who is constantly chirped for not producing adequate content. 179 in particular set off red flags.

Hilt is obvious, and who I was going to push originally (but his recent vote on Kat caught me by surprise, admittedly). Definition of fence-sitting and keeping multiple lynch options open to pursue without committing to any of them. Seems forced.

Ranmaru reasoning can be summed up from J's, Kat's and Sword's posts. Everything that I initially thought has been echoed perfectly so I don't feel the need to repeat it.

Desperately want more from Nabe or Circus cuz I also feel there's a scum in there. I someone feel Ran is likely going to flip scum which probably implicates a townSoup, unfortunately, so I'm definitely looking for an auxiliary reads in my nulls if that scenario occurs.

 

[#HBC | J]

I'm here but not really if that makes sense. I have the thread open while doing other things.

 

[th3kuzinator]

@Sword: Reason for town lean on Rockin?

@J: Do you any leads solid leads for anyone on my nulls list that would classify them one way or the other?

 

[th3kuzinator]

The scummiest things I see is Swords and Soup going after each other. I don't think it's entirely unreasonable to think there's a scummer in there, but I wouldn't throw the possibility of TvT out the window either. I think there's something there, but I don't think it'll be useful until later in the game, when more than 2 things have happened.

I know you haven't read. There is much more going on that Sword v Soup. What do you think of Ranmaru?

 

[#HBC | Joker]

You know Kuzi, you really haven't been doing much this game, but your reads are good so actually you can be town to.

@PJB: Where is the scumminess in me vs. Soup? Also, we've stopped our attack on each other. Does this influence your opinion at all?

Tbh you didn't really give a position at all, just stated that it was either SvT or TvT. Well, duh. So were do you stand?

I saw that it ended, that doesn't change the fact that it happened. The scumminess is not within the points either of you raised, because the whole thing was foolish. The scumminess is in the fact that you both were just oh so willing to butt heads.

I also didn't say I thought it was SvT or TvT either. I actually thought it was more likely to be SvS, or TvT. The whole interaction read kind of disingenuous to me on both sides.

 

[Rockin]

Kuz, why lynch me/other nulls instead of lynching/putting more focus on your scum picks?

 

[#HBC | Joker]

I know you haven't read. There is much more going on that Sword v Soup. What do you think of Ranmaru?

I have, in fact, read. I already commented on Ranmaru though. I don't think there's anything about Ranmaru, himself, to go on. I'm content to continue watching the wagon play out, and see how I like the way people handle it.

And if you're trying to say that the J wagon was also a thing, then I feel sorry for you.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Also think about this:

I've been going over the second post (and I asked marshy in private to clarify what the Hider role entails) and I think we can utilize the hider as like a psued0-cop. Right before the end the day (someone hammers) we all pretend we're hiders and all publicly declare in thread that we're going to hide behind someone. That way, if the actual hider ever dies we'll know who he targeted and we know 1 of a few scenarios:

• He hid behind scum, dies.
• He hid behind vig, dies.
• He hid behind the Night Kill target (that isn't the vig), dies.

Now, from this, we can eliminate the third option as a viable scenario if the person that shows up dead from the Night Kill is the person the hider matched in the body he stated he would hide behind. Basically, we'll be able to diagnose from the Night Kill whether the hider died via NK or died because he tried to hide behind someone with a gun.

The only con to this would be that it could potentially out the vig but I think thats a small price to pay for a possible scummy (3 in 1 odds). I think it would be a very good strategy, especially if the hider isn't a very active townie and thus could provide much more use with his result than being alive.

Another thing is that this would be inherently riskier later in the game as we get closer to MYLO or LYLO so it would definitely be more effective to use sooner than later.

I want people weighing in on this.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Kuz, why lynch me/other nulls instead of lynching/putting more focus on your scum picks?

I put effort into explaining scumpicks and am currently voting my #1 scumpick. What.

 

[Rockin]

This is why I ask.

Here's where I stand currently:

Town:
BarDulL
J
Sworddancer.
Kary
Kataefi

Null:
Rockin
PrivateJoker-Brown
Circus
Nabe

Scum:
soup
DtJ Hilt
Ranmaru

Top being most townie and bottom being least. I definitely think if we lynched from Rockin down we'd win

The bold gave me that impression.

I'm not with the idea of using the hider as some sort of pesudo-cop, especially when it could possibly out a role. We could just let the detective do their job and see what happens.

 

[th3kuzinator]

I meant if we lynch from that pool. But we may not have a detective. We may have a vig instead or something. There's so much more info we could be gaining from everyone psuedo-hiding.

 

[th3kuzinator]

And we don't know if the psychologist's results are good. If everyone psuedo targets a scumpick, we have a very strong chance of catching a guaranteed scum and if we out the vig who cares, we'll just have another confirmed townie

 

[Rockin]

I meant if we lynch from that pool. But we may not have a detective. We may have a vig instead or something. There's so much more info we could be gaining from everyone psuedo-hiding.

I Just checked the 1st page. Hmm.

Mod: Marshy, does the detective/phychologist have to choose one or the other as well as the tracker/vig?

 

[#HBC | Joker]

as I understand it from the wiki, they choose which role they want the first time they use it, and then that's their role forever.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Another thing is that psuedo-hiding kind of gives insurance for the Hider if you know what I mean. Since he know he'll die if he chooses scum he might just pick town reads to affirm they're town reads which won't give that much info but if he knows his result will be important regardless of whether he lives or dies he'll be more inclined to actually hide behind someone who matters like a null read.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Thinking . . . .

Kuzi, what do you think about suggesting that the vig/tracker choose to be a tracker? That way, there is absolutely no way we would out the vig/tracker.

The one flaw in this plan that I'm finding is that there will always mathematically be one man out that scum could kill. Since this game has an odd number of players, everyone can't pretend to be hiding behind someone else. Someone will get left out.

However, we could just agree to not hide behind a scummy player. Someone that is scum/scum wouldn't want to kill.

Also, just my personal suggestion, but the hider might want to consider claiming if they have like, two clears that are still alive. This is just an aside that's not really relevant towards the current discussion, but three clears Day 3 would be pretty devastating to scum.

I like the idea.

Also, to answer your question, I'm leaning town on Rockin right now because I agreed with his Hilt read, plus my gut said that he liked him.

@PJB: Oh okay, the way your 213 was worded made me think that you thought that it was SvT (". . . There's a scummer in there").

PJB leaning town.

Will reconsider Soup cus Kui is town.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Ohhhhh I didn't even think about having the tracker go tracker damn what that makes the plan foolproof

Word

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Soup is hella scummy, regardless of his mixup with who Sword was addressing. Though I do think he genuinely made an error, I don't like the way he pushed his side. ]b\The tone forceful and too strong to merit the information he had on Sword, even if his reasoning was correct. [/b]I also don't like that his vote has not landed anywhere after the RVS push on J. He's kind of refrained from pushing scum after his merit for Sword dropped, and has mostly resorted to giving up town-picks. I think he feels unsure of where he wants to currently push. I also dislike his dismissive nature of Bardull's post which I actually thought was quite logical coming from someone like Bardull who is constantly chirped for not producing adequate content. 179 in particular set off red flags.

I don't get how you think my reasoning was correct, yet dismissing most of my argument. Which parts did you agree with, and why are they relevant in the first place? I don't get how you're putting Swords at town yet agreeing with something I said about him before hand. Am I reading what you said correctly?

 

[th3kuzinator]

And I don't think its necessary to have everyone hide behind someone else so idk where you odd man out comes from

 

[th3kuzinator]

I don't get how you think my reasoning was correct, yet dismissing most of my argument. Which parts did you agree with, and why are they relevant in the first place? I don't get how you're putting Swords at town yet agreeing with something I said about him before hand. Am I reading what you said correctly?

I liked your initial push and your initial reasoning because I came to the same conclusion on my own and was planning on pushing Sword on it. However, I don't the last few posts of the interaction where you and Sword went wall vs wall. Even if you thought he was forcing something (because you inaccurately read Sword's previous post), your tone was definitely off. It reminded me of a scummer picking on something that publically looks bad (and is subsequently easy to push on) and suffocating them with it, which I've seen and done myself numerous times in the past. Aka, I think you were pressing kind of to back him into a corner instead of challenge him for reaction.

And while I kind of disliked Sword for the whole nervous thing I've said it would only be a minute lean at best. I've really liked his recent posts and his one in response to my suggestion to psuedo-hide only confirms my sentiment.

Also, can you weigh in on that plan ?

Going snowboarding I'll be back lata

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

And I don't think its necessary to have everyone hide behind someone else so idk where you odd man out comes from

Because if we don't cover all bases then scum will have a pool of people to kill from that will be "safe."

Like, think of it like this:

We have players 1, 2, 3, . . . 13.

player 1 "hides" behind player 2.
player 2 "hides" behind player 1.
player 3 "hides" behind player 4.
player 4 "hides" behind player 3.

So on and so on.

So then, who "hides" behind player 13?

Unless we can do it like a circle? I don't know if that's mathematically possible.

1<2<3<4<5<6<7<8<9<10<11<12<13<1

I THINK this works. Correct me if I'm wrong. If my circle system does work, then nvm my previous concerns.

But yeah, if you still don't get what I'm concerned about, it's basically just scum killing someone that no one announced that they would "hide" behind.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

yea it's definitely possible for everyone to claim a different "hide behind" target, and have all bases covered.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

As far as my opinion on that strategy goes, I dislike the idea of exploiting the system, generally. But I certainly see the merits of it, and would begrudgingly go along. I just feel like these kinds of plans end up making people feel safer than they are.

 

[ranmaru]

Hey guys, I have had some internet trouble yesterday, and earlier today. I'll give responses shortly. (I have been on this page the whole time)

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I get that feeling, but my initial push was based on a mistake. It kind of crumbles the rest that I built up. I got a bit heated I admit and I'm not going to pretend like I had that planned. I genuinely felt like I was pursuing something of worth until I noticed that I ****ed up and it seriously just made me feel like ****. I'm gonna spare a bunch of 'woe is me' comments because they aren't very productive.

I'll get to your plan soon. I'm busy tonight too.