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[#HBC | Kary]

A cartload of hysterical broads. So much drama, no-one wins any awards.

aight, much as its nice to see some more content, i don't know why i've got these walls to trawl through.

Soup you have literally ended your post with 'i'm wasting my time' so maybe stop trying to convince PJB he's scum and convince someone else. It looks like your argument is 'he hasn't done anything' and hell that's true of a bunch of slots, so maybe give me the bulletpoint version of why what PJB has done is scummy.

Right now Ran is the only person I'm happy being on this waggon, because i'm pretty sure he's being genuine- and i'm not even sure he's right. That leaves me looking at Soup/Death Bear/Nabe and asking 'Is one of them scum, or are they just doing all the legwork for scum'.

I talked before about not seeing Kata/Circus toDay. I've realized Rockin is maxlurking as well and that's not cool. Idk about you but I want better reads on those slots before I leap onto a waggon toDay. None of this Zen 'he's 100% scum lynch him do nothing else' bull****.

Speaking of other slots. Nabe is increasingly becoming a problem for me. By claiming 'a PR' he keeps himself from being counterclaimed, because anyone could be sitting on one of our PRs not knowing whether Nabe's lying. Given how useful I think Nabe's slot is, and that he's managed to scrape out a night action already, I am absolutely fine with him claiming and eating a bullet. I'm fine with him being CC'd and trading two slots for a scummer. I wouldn't put it past him as scum to shove a fake claim that doesn't quite add up at us, and that uncertainty isn't going to go away unless he hard claims or dies.

Nabe, it's an open setup. You were ok with being CC'd yesterDay and getting lynched, otherwise you wouldn't have done it. Now you've got an action off, you should be even more ok with that same scenario. ****ing claim already.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Pretty sure I gave me own reasoning on PJB about a page back. Pretty sure this isn't over. Pretty sure I'm trying to convince people by grilling him in the first place to call out his bull****. Pretty sure you just skimmed.

 

[ranmaru]

Priavte-Joker Brown

#213
I don't see it as you initiating pressure though. You only gave that opinion because Kuz caught you and asked you to say something. Reference: #210

#419
You state that you were willing to write it off as a misunderstanding, yet you never showed how you misunderstood it. How about you state what exactly you misunderstood about it?

#447

You mention soup town in this post. You said you found his explanation as your own misunderstanding, but I don't see how you arrived to a soup townlean, nor did you ever show how you got there. Can you do so?

On not expressing your soup read progression, I'll drop that point. I just found it odd that you mentioned your lynch picks, and even mentioned some that you didn't think were worthy enough, but not soup. I'll drop that. Everything else still stands.

My problem with you is that you told Nabe to un-convince you, as if you had reasoning to be straight convinced that he was the lynch. Why exactly did you say "Nabe, convince me not to vote you". What set off your bells to say that, and can you quote it/underline it? I want to see exactly what came up in your head for you to say that.

 

[ranmaru]

Quoting to Death-bear so he doesn't forget. New page.

While I get to PJB, what I want to know is:

Why are you pursuing PJB over Nabe now, from your own words?
How does Rake agree with this? (He can say this)
How will PJB flipping town/scum affect your read on Nabe?
What does Rake think of you not agreeing with Souptown?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

all riled up

Pretty sure I gave me own reasoning on PJB about a page back. Pretty sure this isn't over. Pretty sure I'm trying to convince people by grilling him in the first place to call out his bull****. Pretty sure you just skimmed.

what point are you even trying to make.

I saw your reasoning. I thought it was something PJB should respond to. Now you're beating him over the head with it for reasons I don't understand. Do you deny that you're wasting your time?

And yeah I get that you're trying to convince people, but it doesn't fly with me. I don't want to rush. I don't want to tunnel PJB. The **** do you care if I'm skimming? ****ING ANSWER ME ABOUT YOUR CIRCUS STANCE and tell me where you stand on Nabe claiming. Maybe then i'll pay attention to what you post.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

prodding appropriate people tomorrow

votecount 2.06
nabe (2) - kataefi pjb
pjb (3) - ran soup nabe
not voting (4) - rockin circus kary death bear

voting log
soup -> pjb
pjb -> nabe
rockin ->
death bear -> nabe -> none
ranmaru -> nabe -> none -> pjb
circus ->
nabe -> pjb
kataefi -> nabe
kary ->

with 9 ballin it takes 5 to hardbody. deadline is 3/29 11:59:59 pm est

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

all riled up



what point are you even trying to make.

I saw your reasoning. I thought it was something PJB should respond to. Now you're beating him over the head with it for reasons I don't understand. Do you deny that you're wasting your time?

And yeah I get that you're trying to convince people, but it doesn't fly with me. I don't want to rush. I don't want to tunnel PJB. The **** do you care if I'm skimming? ****ING ANSWER ME ABOUT YOUR CIRCUS STANCE and tell me where you stand on Nabe claiming. Maybe then i'll pay attention to what you post.

He's not here. His claim is fine.

 

[ranmaru]

I actually agree with Kary. Now that we know Nabe is not the hider, it's possible he can be nk'd. I do think he should put out a little bit, so that he can be trusted. I would think it would be bad play for us to accept Nabe not telling us what his exact claim is, and expecting us to just go 'ok, that makes sense'.

@Ryu: what do you think of this?
@Soup: how would PJB's scum/town flip affect your read on me? What are you thinking of me now?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I'm not sure yet. Why are you asking me that? Why does it concern you?

 

[ranmaru]

I'm asking you that to tie you down to a stance now, instead of waiting to see what you'd do with it in the future. You were bringing up past posts between me and Bardull, and I was wondering what you were thinking of my push on PJB, and how that affects your read on me.

 

[ranmaru]

I'll think about it later dependent on how PJB responds.

Basically, you seem to put me on hold, while pushing PJB. Here's the quote where you decide to do so.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I was leaning more on the town side after re-reading you. See my conversation with Death Bear if you want more insight about it. What about you? The only people on PJB so far are me you and Nabe. Earlier on you were pretty set on lynching Nabe. Has anything changed for you?

 

[Death Bear]

Wtf else am I supposed to say here? I read his #306, and it seemed genuine.

Explain how his 306 felt genuine , did you agree with the points he was making at the time, or see where he was coming from ?

Or genuine in the sense of "he's doing X , and stepping us through it".

Yup

I am literally the newest player in the roster. And I don't think I'm particularly good at being town, because I honestly don't enjoy it as much.

That actually wasn't my point, mine was moreso why you labelled Ran, Soup ad Bardull in with yourself; I understand your newer to the game, but you've played enough games to understand mafia and how/why people do what they do. I'm more interested as to why you think Soup is a weaker player in this sense. If anything Soup is one of the stronger player's on this roster; Did you mean weaker in the sense of thread power they had ? Or did you mean weaker in the sense of , a lot of people were looking around them, and it would be easy for scumone to pick up on a bad push and carry it through ?

Where did Soup stand for you at this point and where does he stand now in comparison ?

How is not committing to a read on a player I don't have a read on scummy? Yea, he had just returned, and I hadn't seen anything from him prior to it that had convinced me of his alignment one way or the other. I'm supposed to have a solid read on him because he posted a mile long catchup post? Why can't I be a townie who didn't have a read on him?

You misunderstand, this wasn't a question nor a accusation, it was something I felt was telling, that I wanted people to talk about.

As to the solid read thing, not necessarily, and yes, you can be a townie without a read, the difference or telling portion is how you approached not having a read.

Because I was active in thread, and opposing him? That was an easy one...

Yes, but consider Kat scum for a moment; He sees you fighting hm, and instead of letting it go on for a whil, then going : "i liked PJB's responses; Town" He decided to keep on you. My question is to consider why he would make it harder on himself as scum

I'm not really sure what it is you're asking me. The fact that I react to things isn't telling, because it's something I do regardless of alignment.

It wasn't a question , it was an observation. And you mis-understood the intent behind it, I meant, was your defense to being over-reactive, itself an over-reaction, and how telling it was.

And that's a stupid assertion you're making at the end. I never said "lol, kat made an easy push, so he must be scum". I said he made a bunch of easy pushes over the course of the game. Nothing but, in fact. It's not the same thing you're doing at all, cuz you didn't push the same people he did.

Yes but your the common thread ? Do you feel my push is more legitimate than his was ? How is mine different from Kat's ?

 

[ranmaru]

Yes. I thought Nabe was scum trying to get out of a lynch before (and for his vague quips), and I was set on lynching him thinking "He lied, he was obviously trying to get a CC, so therefore he is scum", but I couldn't help but see some opportunism grow, mostly from PJB. Now, I still feel Nabe isn't in an obv-town position, and think he should claim his real role so that we can move on with lynching PJB. I think if he doesn't, Nabe will only be a confusing slot and slow the game down.

Also, what is your opinion on Death-bear, and his contribution to the wagon?

 

[Death Bear]

While I get to PJB, what I want to know is:

Why are you pursuing PJB over Nabe now, from your own words?
How does Rake agree with this? (He can say this)
How will PJB flipping town/scum affect your read on Nabe?
What does Rake think of you not agreeing with Souptown?

1) He's scummier to me for reasons I've laid out; Me and Ryu agreed to focus moreso on PJB to push on / figure out.
2) How do I agree with what ?
3) I don't fel like Bardull would toss possibly both his mates around; Long and short of it is most accurately summed up as , I find PJB and Nabe individually scummy, and I'd need to re-read that person in the context of their interactions with Bardull before deciding how to approach the other
4) I'm fine with it. Ryu playing devil's advocate to some of my reads is good for me to explore / try to explain them, then see why he disagrees. Makes for good teamwork for hunting scummers. And great success.(Hopefully).

As an aside , Ran, how do these questiosn help you exactly in reading us or our intent ?

 

[Death Bear]

Oh, I failed to realize Ran addressed his questions to Ryu, then I answered them.

GG.

 

[ranmaru]

It helps me to understand why you are changing gears.

Rockin, I saw you viewing. Any comments?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Rake feel free to quote this.

I am against him claiming because I see more benefit leaving it in the dark. Him not claiming is ideal in all but one situation I thought of.

Ran I'll answe questions after work.

 

[Death Bear]

Rake feel free to quote this.

I am against him claiming because I see more benefit leaving it in the dark. Him not claiming is ideal in all but one situation I thought of.

Ran I'll answe questions after work.

Rake feel free to quote this.

I am against him claiming because I see more benefit leaving it in the dark. Him not claiming is ideal in all but one situation I thought of.

Ran I'll answe questions after work



I got you bro.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Yo in all seriousness what is the benefit of leaving Nabe's claim in the dark?

Right now he's not cleared, and if he is town he's liable to eat a bullet anyways. The only utility I can see is it makes it slightly more likely that he'll get to use another night action. Now if he was a cop or a doc maybe I'd give a **** about that. But a couple of vig shots is plenty, and I don't think a semi-clear on anyone actually helps us.

Now what I don't want happening is Nabe claiming later on. Someone CCs him and all of a sudden having narrowed scum down to between two players means nothing because you can't afford the mislynch. We get it out the way now, at worst we're 5v1 going into D3, and even then we'd probably have a clear.

If I thought Nabe had done anything to justify a townread on him, this wouldn't be such an issue. As it is;

I wouldn't put it past him as scum to shove a fake claim that doesn't quite add up at us, and that uncertainty isn't going to go away unless he hard claims or dies.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Maybe you and I should have a little chat

Yo in all seriousness what is the benefit of leaving Nabe's claim in the dark?

Right now he's not cleared, and if he is town he's liable to eat a bullet anyways. The only utility I can see is it makes it slightly more likely that he'll get to use another night action. Now if he was a cop or a doc maybe I'd give a **** about that. But a couple of vig shots is plenty, and I don't think a semi-clear on anyone actually helps us.

Now what I don't want happening is Nabe claiming later on. Someone CCs him and all of a sudden having narrowed scum down to between two players means nothing because you can't afford the mislynch. We get it out the way now, at worst we're 5v1 going into D3, and even then we'd probably have a clear.

If I thought Nabe had done anything to justify a townread on him, this wouldn't be such an issue. As it is;

[[EBWOP: flavour]]

 

[Rockin]

Sorry Kary, wasn't lurking. I was still just recovering for the bull**** reason why town is still acceped with him living. Just so as to not sound like a broken record, I'm going to put my issue with Nabe in a spoiler tag

Spoiler

As I've said before, there's nothing townie as to what Nabe did as far as claims (he was pretty neutral IMO). He claimed to save his ass (only for it to blow up in his face Next day). Let's not forget he dodged ALL discussion whatsoever till later on in the Day close to deadline where he was getting piled on by votes (due to inactivity). Had he been more active and contribute, I'm sure he wouldn't have been voted (and thus the focus on Circus would get some steam).

Once D2 comes, he claims 'A PR' for the sole fact that if he blindly claimed again, he would be lynched WITH NO HESITATION

Scum-Dell
Bar-Dull.

I'd rather Nabe explain himself before jumping to conclusions. This looks terrible for him and I'll probably vote him come the circumstances, however we shouldn't throw this day away considering how things went down yesterday. I recall Nabe and Bardull being pitted at each other for quite some time. I think it wouldn't be wise to just go #hbc on this considering the odds are still not in our favor. I'm gonna read Bardull.

There is nothing to explain. What would there be to explain?

Leaving him alive on a Mylo/Lylo situation is dangerious and stupid. It was his fault for being inactive/badly claiming, so he should be punished for this. We, as townies, should not encourage this type of behavior/claiming.

Policy Rule: 'Lynch all Liars'

no-one shoots, and no-one gets hurt

Rockin if you wanna question my read on Hilt go ahead. I might question yours later, but my post you quote there was more about the 5 or so people on the waggon who suddenly found a dislike for Hilt.

[[EBWOP: flavour]]

There's no longer a need to question your reads as Hilt is dead, but you're welcome to question mine if you like (I actually already made a reason near deadline of D1). I do agree with you on the sudden dislike on the wagon. This makes me feel slightly more okay with a Circus lynch.

Speaking of other slots. Nabe is increasingly becoming a problem for me. By claiming 'a PR' he keeps himself from being counterclaimed, because anyone could be sitting on one of our PRs not knowing whether Nabe's lying. Given how useful I think Nabe's slot is, and that he's managed to scrape out a night action already, I am absolutely fine with him claiming and eating a bullet. I'm fine with him being CC'd and trading two slots for a scummer. I wouldn't put it past him as scum to shove a fake claim that doesn't quite add up at us, and that uncertainty isn't going to go away unless he hard claims or dies.

Nabe, it's an open setup. You were ok with being CC'd yesterDay and getting lynched, otherwise you wouldn't have done it. Now you've got an action off, you should be even more ok with that same scenario. ****ing claim already.

First you was all "If you're not counter claiming/LEGIT reason for voting Nabe, then step the **** off" now you're all 'eeeeeeh I'm really uncomfortable with you Nabe' ? what made you change your mind....and why can't we just lynch him instead of relying on a CC. It does the same thing as what you suggest, but safer.
Hmm....
Not completely convinced of a PJB lynch. I've looked into the first parts of the case, but skimmed the last two pages. I'll look at them after I'm done eating my chinese food.
Kat, looking forward to what your thoughts of what we should do.

 

[Rockin]

It helps me to understand why you are changing gears.

Rockin, I saw you viewing. Any comments?

I just commented?

man I hate when people look to see if I'm watching the thread or not. It's like if I'm trying to piss and someone texting me "what you dooooooin? :3'

 

[#HBC | Kary]

beggars belief

why can't we just lynch Nabe? because if he hard claims and there's no CC he is cleared as town. Do you want to lynch a cleared townie?

and good job you've misread my post again. I didn't say 'step off the waggon unless you're scumreading or counterclaiming Nabe'.
I said 'we don't lynch Nabe without some sort of claim/counterclaim'. Why? Because there's a reasonable chance he's cleared as town.

 

[Rockin]

beggars belief

why can't we just lynch Nabe? because if he hard claims and there's no CC he is cleared as town. Do you want to lynch a cleared townie?

and good job you've misread my post again. I didn't say 'step off the waggon unless you're scumreading or counterclaiming Nabe'.
I said 'we don't lynch Nabe without some sort of claim/counterclaim'. Why? Because there's a reasonable chance he's cleared as town.

He hard claimed Hider. Hider Kuz died. Your statement right there is invalid at this point. And that guy is not cleared. He has not earn any town points with me (and from most others according to how that wagon started). That guy is not a cleared townie and never will be.

No, that time I didn't misread you. I was just too lazy to go back and pull out that exact quote, so I just worded it in a way that was similar to your quote XD. I'm not seeing this 'reasonable' chance. I rather keep around a vanilla townie that's pro town over a shady claim. Anyday.

 

[ranmaru]

man I hate when people look to see if I'm watching the thread or not. It's like if I'm trying to piss and someone texting me "what you dooooooin? :3'

You viewed yesterday (or a while ago) and I don't want to keep letting you view without really saying a thing. I wouldn't do that everytime someone views, we got lives. But I mean if you occasionally check, I think "If I don't call 'em out, they may not even post". So deal with it. I can see you were prolly writing that post up, and I didn't know. Carry on.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

I'll say it again

look, i have some sympathy with you on this point. Nabe's hider claim was not cool.

But the fact remains that if he claims any of other named PR and isn't CC'd, he is still clear. My point is most definitely NOT invalid, so please stop completely missing the point.

If you think it's not worth outing one of our PRs, then say that. But stop repeating 'I think Nabe is scum' and 'Nabe lied' because even if you're right about Nabe you're not making yourself useful.

While you're here, do you actually have any reads, because that's not something I've seen a lot of from you this game.

 

[Rockin]

I can see concern of PJB being scum to others, but....eeeh. I'm not completely convinced. Felt the Soup vs PJB was a 'salty' match (in some sense, better then the Soup vs Swords, but doesn't profit as much IMO). I see it as more as him just bad towns play and not him being 'scummy' persay. If time calls for it, I'm willing to lynch PJB, but I'm not entirely confident about it atm.

Liking soup less. I'm getting a scum lean from him right atm. This could be just our playstyles conflicting with each other. I have to look more into him

I hope to hear more from Circus in this game, but if he proves to be fairly inactive as before, I wouldn't oppose a lynch on him (I'm hoping he'd be replaced instead, but eh).

Kary I'm pretty neutral on (more then likely my only other null besides Circus). I feel that are styles of play is clashing violently. Therefore, it's difficult to really determine whether scum or town. I'll refrain from questioning him till he gets his own questions answered.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I wish you would do more than play happy catch-up time and sit your vote oh so nicely on Nabe.

 

[Rockin]

I wish you would do more than play happy catch-up time and sit your vote oh so nicely on Nabe.

.....but

votecount 2.05
nabe (2) - kataefi pjb
pjb (3) - ran soup nabe
not voting (4) - rockin circus kary death bear

my vote isn't on Nabe. It never was. >_>

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Put the same record on again

Naybeh


yes definitely address this for me dearest given your position as a huge ****ing question mark

There really isn't anything to be said. As you've already pointed out, ambiguity affords me a chance at not being killed toNight. By not claiming a specific role, I avoid having to make a value judgment on which role scum wants dead of the two, and by leaving room for doubt as to whether I'm really cleared, I give scum the further incentive to seek out other targets. The only way I'd claim my outright role toDay is as an L-1 lynch candidate.

Votes for PJB cuz Ran did such a good job of pointing out why he's scum
Immediately calls the guy who is apparently doing such good scumhunting, scum.

Except I've spent the Day, prior to Ran's posts about you, talking about Ran.

Unless this is idle taunting for lack of anything better to post, I assume you haven't noticed yet: I'm town. Roleclaims aside, you haven't addressed my logic about Bard's "bus", or even acknowledged that in order to be scum I need to be connected to Bard.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Policy Rule: 'Lynch all Liars'

I'll thank you not to treat a personal policy as if everybody else agreed to follow it.

You should actually read my posts. You'll see that there is a clear and logical consistency in my actions, and that Bardull couldn't have been a scum partner of mine.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

.....but




my vote isn't on Nabe. It never was. >_>

Then let me ask what you're waiting for?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

force my hand why don't you.

Well then

Vote: Nabe

I remain confused as to why you avoiding a night kill is a good thing.
Mayhaps scum choose to kill someone obvtown. Why are we in a better situation then?

I honestly can't remember the last time I saw such self-interested play. Add to that my general distaste for your scumpicks and

BIG ANGRY FACE

 

[Kataefi]

Sorry guyz it's been hell this week for me.

@Kary:

I'd be willing to compromise on him ONLY if Kat is guaranteed to get hardbodied tomorrow upon TownRockin flip. Like, straight up maul him bear style to oblivion. The only reason why I'd be willing to compromise on Rockin at this point though is because Rockin has been pretty inactive and it has hurt my read on his slot.

The Rockin read is assumptious and strictly comes from here. Bardull liked Rockin but turned against him when the opportunity presented itself. This doesn't look like a bus to me - instead it looked as if to set up a process of mislynching by further incriminating another townie (me) based on Rockin's flip. There was a possibility of Rockin being lynched at the time this post was made and he was suggested multiple times by Soup, the wagon herder.

Really for Bardull to take advantage of this situation makes me think this isn't a bus. Bardull expected Rockin to flip Town because he knew of the alignment already. Of course Bardull expected to be coming into D2 alive, right?... For my logic not to be the case here, he would be sacrificing suspicion against a target he had been setting up for a fall.

Kary those 3 names you mentioned... How did you reach your conclusions?

Also I actually think soupahmario needs looking into:

unvote
vote: soup

So many questions and such little time I'm confused as to your direction in this game...

Firstly at the crux of the D1 lynch with around 24 hours, why did you put forward these 2 names?:

@Everyone 24 Hours. Kat or Circus? Someone else?

...odd you would throw my name here considering the wagons were dispersed (I wasn't close to being lynched) and I was also one of your few Town reads (others being deadSwords and PJB, whom you're pushing massively now).

Additionally, some players rejected to lynch me (namely Ran/Hilt). Seems odd for you to have coupled my name with Circus as if to add momentum here. Can you understand why I'm interested in your direction in this game so far? Something like this stands out to me.

Also curiously, why was Bardull's name missed? There are multiple instances of your concern over him - this post for example. He was a lynch choice from 2/3 of your towniest reads (Swords/Myself)... You recognised that Bardull could be swung to here:

I'm fine with swinging to bardull if that what needs to happen, and I don't feel like lynching Nabe would give us anything either.

He was a compromise lynch:

Compromise: J, Bardull, Nabe

He was "talked about", which as far as I understand makes this a meaningful lynch:

Your slot was talked about. Rockin is talked about. Bardull was talked about. Kuz won't get lynched today.

And from your POV he brought scumminess on himself:

This is also more solidified because I liked him more against Bardull, which really Bardull put that on himself.

You even considered it here!

Bardull I'm thinking about joining this wagon on you because it seems realistic and I think even if you're town, the scramble will prove to have some sort of scum on it.

All the signs were there for you join a healthy lynch but you were reserved here...

Regarding the first quote, it looked as though you presented an opportunity to get rid of a townie over someone who was equally as (if not more) likely to get lynched and of greater concern to you... This has me asking why? You didn't even join the wagon to build up pressure. To go all dramatic, perhaps you attempted to influence Town down the wrong route, adding time-based pressure here for the Town to make a flop decision... I guess this could explain why you were so safe in your vote placements throughout the entirety of D1 as if to eye up the best opportunities. Look at your vote record throughout a majority of it:

soup -> j -> none

^So lukewarm (!) considering you came into this game all #hbc and had a variety of players to grill. Your direction on D1 simply looked too safe/cautious/whatever you want to call it

It might seem a shocker for some of you but I'm not buying what Kary is selling as of late.

How has this read developed btw? Also did you answer my last post?

 

[Kataefi]

Will lynch: Nabe;PJB;

Not likely: Kata(iffy interactions with Bardull ; Soupa; Ran(Bardull spent entirely too much time here for me to read it as scum at this point)

Nope: Rockin;

^Bearface can you plz elaborate on all these reads? Go into as much detail as possible

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

And you know.

The fact that prior to hi claiming he had no feasible reason to fear being killed.

 

[Death Bear]

And you know.

The fact that prior to hi claiming he had no feasible reason to fear being killed.

****

And you know.

The fact that prior to hi claiming he had no feasible reason to fear being killed.

*EBWOP*: Him

 

[ranmaru]

Yo kat.

How has your opinion of PJB and the current events revolving around him progressed?
Thoughts on Death Bear?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

The Rockin read is assumptious and strictly comes from here.

cool thank you

Kary those 3 names you mentioned... How did you reach your conclusions?

which three names?