Emblem Lord's Video Critiqueing Corner

Emblem Lord · Dec 26, 2007

I decided to make this thread because I'm talented at telling people what they need to improve upon, I'm knowledgable about Marth and I know how to train effectively.

So I decided to put my talents to good use and help the Marth community in the most direct way possible.

By critiqueing vids of Marth players in matches. Just post up w/e vids you want me to look at and I will critique them in this thread for all to see and learn from. Try not to get too crazy with the vids. 1 or 2 is fine per person, 3 at the most. I only say this since I don't want every person to post 9 vids and then I would have to look at all of them so try to pick the vids that you really really want me to look at.

Once I have critiqued your vids, work on the things I said and refrain from posting anything else for a bit. It will take time for you to work on those areas that need improvement so devote your energies to that for awhile, before you start recording new vids again and posting them.

I would say wait about 2 or 3 weeks and maybe up to a month depending on how often you play. And with that, start posting your match vids Marth community!

Edit: I will also be updating this post with links to the vids that are posted for me as well as links to my post that have the critique. Also be sure to tell what you are looking for in your critique. Do you want an overview or do you want me to go over individual mistakes and explain why they weren't good choices and what you should do instead? Or maybe you want both? Be sure to let me know, otherwise I will most likely just give an overview and talk about mistakes here and there and over all bad habits I noticed.

Match Video and Critique Links

Posted on: Dec. 20 2007
STQ Match 1 - http://youtube.com/watch?v=0N4tE9TdnZU
STQ Match 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFzd_iY-H5Y&feature=related
My Critique - http://smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=3579377&postcount=5

Posted on: Dec. 27 2007
Brightside6382 Match 1 - http://youtube.com/watch?v=GGfEiBo_qxY
Brightside6382 Match 2 - http://youtube.com/watch?v=V_Uilffsy1U&feature=related
Brightside6382 Match 3 - http://youtube.com/watch?v=4hvql0_RhMI
Brightside6382 Match 4 - http://youtube.com/watch?v=kDABO3bNBOY
My Critique - http://smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=3585888&postcount=10

Posted on: Dec. 28 2007
Manli Match 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omCfW8QlDx0
My Critique - http://smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=3602309&postcount=17

Posted on: Dec. 31 2007
ToS Match 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIP31DYwsVk
ToS Match 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MOjLU4KUyE
My Critique - http://smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=3619219&postcount=27

Posted on: Jan. 7 2008
Jx31 Match 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61wnyXsOG20
Jx31 Match 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qB5oVIP-r7o
My Critique - http://smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=3668843&postcount=37

Posted on: Jan. 9 2008
Echo Match 1,2, and 3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IqIrvaVsoU
Echo Match 3 and 4 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0wOQdUzqWE
My Critique - http://smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=3693287&postcount=44

Posted on: Jan. 11 2008
Toma Match 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mnJm-4dK24
My Critique - http://smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=3693849&postcount=46

Posted on: Jan. 10 2008
ComboTurtle Match 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTRUQ5WdlPQ
ComboTurtle Match 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYludhddXvk
My Critique - http://smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=3723946&postcount=53

Puffin · Dec 27, 2007

Excellent; I never got any critique from you, but I always noticed how good your comments tended to be. My old matches are all quite bad, though, so I'll have to make a new batch.

Hylian · Dec 27, 2007

Please critique this Marth:

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=131885

FrostByte · Dec 27, 2007

If you're willing to uphold a thread like this, you'd have to update all the vids on the first post.

Emblem Lord · Dec 27, 2007

Critique for Save the Queen.

Match 1 - Vs. Falco on Final Destination

I noticed right off the bat that you are on point with power shielding. Kudos to you my man, way to go. I also noticed that you don't capitilize on it half the time. I'll show you what I mean.

00:08 - You get the power shield and you wave dash back. Why would you do this vs someone that can projectile spam you?

00:29 - Here you just did nothing then spot dodged. That should have been a wave dash forward.

00:49 - I'm fairly certain that Falco was in grabbing distance for this one, but even if he wasn't then wavedash forward to grab would have been fine. Instead you wavedashed back.

These aren't the only instances where you squandered an opportunity to abuse your proficient powershielding skills. If you have a talent then abuse it and win! Some other things I noticed were the fact that you seem to like wavedashing back or just flat out not approaching Falco at all? It's fine to wait for lasers to power shield, but why wavedash back? You are just making it easier for him to spam you and a better falco would have just reflected or pwershielded the laser right back at those long distances. If you are going to use powershielding then you need to make them count and close that distance whenever you get one off. You can't afford to try to hang back like that against better Falcos. You will get spammed to hell.

You need to be getting in Falco's face and put pressure on him. That way when you powershield he has little time to react and your chance of getting a grab is much greater. Marth can't afford to not approach in this match-up. If that Falco was even a little bit more patient and reflected his lasers at long distance then you would have been in trouble.

Another thing that caught my eye was that you only relied on powershielding to deal with lasers. Why? Why would you limit yourself? There are many other methods for dealing with lasers other then powershielding. check out this thread for some of the best methods. http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=102497

I saw other little mistakes as well. At one point you did a long combo on Falco and got him off the stage. Then you were unable to finish him with a dair so you jumped with a fair thinking he would jump into it, I suppose. Instead you got Illusion meteored. You probably should have just did a neutral b. I'm thinking it would have hit him as you dropped.

You messed up on combos a few times. Tried to extend them and then screwed up the finisher. All I can really say about that is, know when to finish a combo and when to extend and what to use when you want to finish depending on the situation. You always went for an f-smash finish even when it wouldn't hit. Marth has other finishers in his arsenal so use them well. A well placed nair is perfectly fine in most situations and leads to edge guarding.

I saw some random f-smashes here and there so please work on that. Marth can't spam f-smashes and even hope to do well. Also saw some screwd up CGing, so you need to work on that as well. CG till about low 30%'s then u-tilt to re-grab to u-tilt then combo with uairs or fairs depending on DI. You could also just finish with an f-smash to set-up for edge guarding. If you decide to keep the combo going with aerials then you can finish with a Dair, Nair, or f-smash depending on the scenario.

Match 2 - Vs. Fox on Green Greens

Let me start off by ssaying this. Playing Marth on Green Greens is HARD, but playing vs Fox?

TEN TIMES HARDER!

With that out of the way let's look at the vid. Basically I saw alot of reckless running on on your part STQ, and not much else. You also messed up alot of early edgeguards that could clinched the match for you. Although by the end you got it on point. Just a reminder though that when you counter firefox/firebird you then run off and do a double jump fair and as you rise DI back. Then do a reverse Dolphin Slash to recover.

Ok, then nect thing we need to look at is dealing with Fox's strategy on this stage. It sucks that he can camp you so hard, but there are ways to deal with it. One thing you can do is get rid of all the yellow blocks except the very bottom row. This way you can run across into a grab. Another thing to do is to hang out on the very top of the blocks. Then when Fox jumps up to laser, run off and fast fall straight down with a uair. Then when you land, turn around and grab him as he falls. You could also run off nair if his percentage is higher.

When you played I just saw alot of mistakes that led to your demise. Attacking his shield or messing up CG's and combos. And you constanstly just tried to rush him. I'm guessing you may lack Marth experience on this stage, but that's just something to work on. beating Fox on this stage comes down to timing your assualts to coincide with when he is shooting a laser so he won't be able to react in time to your attack. When you are able to do that, then this match on this stage won't be so bad, but it will still be tough.

Try to think of other ways that you can deal with those yellow blocks, since I got the ball rolling for you.

Brightside6382 · Dec 27, 2007

HRM!!! This looks like fun.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=GGfEiBo_qxY
http://youtube.com/watch?v=V_Uilffsy1U&feature=related
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4hvql0_RhMI
http://youtube.com/watch?v=kDABO3bNBOY

Im guessing you're not going to critique them individually but point out obvious deficiency's in my play style! Oh im very excited ^_^

Retroking2000 · Dec 27, 2007

Emblem king
please critique
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIP31DYwsVk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MOjLU4KUyE

princetoma · Dec 28, 2007

wow critque thread by emblem, give good advice. well getting my webcam this weekend i will be recording this weekend.

Cactuar · Dec 28, 2007

Whenever I see an Emblem Lord thread, a song pops into my head...

It sounds something like...

"Anything you can do... I can do better..."

:laugh:

At least I'm lazy, giving him something to do.

Emblem Lord · Dec 28, 2007

Yes.

Cactuar may be able to critique vids better then me. And he is better then me in a videogame.

A VIDEOGAME!!!!!!!!!!ONE!!!ELEVEN

He is clearly my better folks.

He owns me for free.

Now back to business. Remember what I said guys. Don't go nuts posting vids. I said 3 at the most. Not 8 or 9. *Looks at Tears of Sephiroth.* If you give me alot of vids then it's harder to respond within a day or two. Give me 1 to 3 then you can expect to wait no longer then 2 days at the most to get a response back.

Ok, Brightside is first.

Match 1 - Vs. CF on Yoshi's Story

00:10 - Eh. You probably could have regrabbed Falcon here. He was a little slow with his roll.

00:13 - Uhhhhhhhh. Wait...wait...wait...why didn't you do anything? Easy f-smash there that you missed. Or at least a d-tilt. I mean you got it off when he got up, but still...

00:28 - Should have just continued with u-tilts, then finished with w/e although more then likely an f-smash.

01:43 - Could have been a grab to u-throw to w/e.

Seeing alot of passive edge guarding in this match. Letting CF use his up b to get close to the ledge and then swatting him back off. That's ok since it IS CF, and he is pretty much the easiast character to edgeguard in the game. But there were times when you could have ran off to swat him or edgehogged to force him onto the stage and then messed him up.

Also saw alot of full hopped rising aerials namely Fair and Bair. You seem to do it alot when it was the most risky. Like when CF was right next to you. This is easily punished with JC from shield to uair to w/e with CF. You have to be smart about how you use that. Generally you want to fade away with it while hitting with the tip of the sword. If you think they will chase you in the air then you can opt to double jump, double jump to waveland back or forward on a platform, or fastfall to an aerial. I like to fast fall to uair since the arc starts in front of Marth, and they can get juggled upwards and comboed when Marth lands. Of course double jumping to w/e isn't fool proof. If they expect it they could just jump to force a reaction and then go from there. But it's good to know that you have options.

Match 2 - Vs. CF on Final Destination

O_o

Got quite a bit to say about this match.

I won't go into individual mistakes and post times though. You can go look over the vid yourself to see what I mean though.

Well, let's start off with this. You never regrab Falcon after the forward throw. That CF was ALWAYS late with his reaction to being thrown forward. RE-GRAB HIS A$$ *****!!!! Then it's u-throw to tech chase, u-throw to tech chase, rinse and repeat till about 40 % then u-tilts to w/e. This is a staple anti-CF strategy. It has to be used. It's a must.

Again, I saw some full jump aerial spam. Gotta work on using that safely and efectively, but no so much vs CF. He can and will combo you to hell if you over use them. And as evidenced by this vid and the kness you caught due to full jumps, I know that you understnad fully what I'm saying.

You got shield grabbed here and there after a fair which shouldn't even happen. You also wavedashed back once when you faired and it was shielded, but you spaced it perfectly. You had nothing to worry about, so why retreat? Learn to see when you are safe and when you are not and react accordingly.

I also saw more passive edgeguarding. There were times when a simple edgehog would have sealed the deal, but you let him get that ledge anyway. Don't do that. Gauge the situation and pick the best course of action.

You were messing up combos in this match too. I saw u-throw to....absolutely nothing. It should be up-throw to u-tilt.

I saw alot of f-smash usage. Even when it wasn't the smartest option. You have to reign that in, because a blocked f-samsh can cost you a stock against CF when you are Marth even when you are at very low percents. That goes for the Dancing Blade spam as well.

Oh and BTW, where the **** was the d-tilt?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!.

All I saw was shuffles and grabs, and the occassional dash attack.

Show the d-tilt some love plz.

Match 3 - Vs. Fox on Final Destination

Hmmm, I liked your Wall of Steel in the beggining of this match. Just throwing that out there.

Anyway you made some bad choices on that first stock and got merked early cuz of it. You didn't shield his nairs. Didn't go for easy grabs even when he was open. You double jumped and then did a forward b even when Fox was directly under you. Overall, it was sloppy play on the first stock.

After watching this match, I can say with the upmost confidence that you really need to stop full jumping and double jumping all over the place. You are getting murdered because of it. And STOP using forward b when you are in the air directly over your opponent. It's not a good idea.

Work on your combos and most of all your CGing. I saw alot of things that made no sense. U-throw to u-tilt to f-tilt? U-throw to jab? >_> Uhhhhhhh, yeeeeah.

The basic CG combo goes like this. U-throw CG till low 30%'s usually or high 20%'s, about say 28% or 29%. Then u-tilt to re-grab or u-tilt to another u-tilt depending on DI. If you did a re-grab then u-throw to u-tilt. If you did the u-tilt then just do another u-tilt. Then from there an f-smash. That is the most basic. You may be able to fit in another u-tilt depending on DI. There are other variations though. You could do uairs to f-smash/nair or uairs to Ken combo after the first couple of u-tilts. Or u-tilts to fairs. You may even throw in some reverse u-tilts when you get more advanced wtih your combos. Just experiment and practice more and you will get it down.

I saw more passive dgeguarding in this match as well, but at one time you went out and faired Fox when he was getting ready for a Firefox. That's what you need to do! Get out there and swing at them when you have the opportunity.

Also, more d-tilt plz. And work on smash DIng those uairs from Fox.

Here is a thread on DI. http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=60218

Match 4 - Vs. Shiek on Yoshi's Story

To be honest I don't even want to critique this match.

The Shiek was either bad or just didn't play well on tha particular day.

Pretty much everything I said before about helping your Marth in genral still applies in this match.

The Shiek really didn't do much in terms of abusing what gives her advantage in this match, so I can't really do much for you in the way telling you what went wrong in this match when you fought.

I'll give you some tips though. When you u-throw Shiek, she can get out before you u-tilt. So wait for her to jump then chase when a Fair and combo from there. When she d-throws you, you have two effective options. One option is not to do anything and then jump. If she tried to grab again she will miss. But she can still fair you The other option is to DI behind her and downwards. Then jump when you can. Same thing as before, but this time it's hard for her to combo you or grab you. But she can still u-smash you.

Either way she has a response and could even combo you at low percents, but switching it up keeps her guessing. But a good Shiek will always hit you no matter what.

It sucks, but you gotta just deal with it.

Hope I helped with my advice.

Someone please post something so I don't have to double post to respond to Tears of Sephiroth.

firexemblemxpryde · Dec 28, 2007

Aw, what a sweeetheart, doing all this critiqueing.

If you were to click on my signature, you would be taken to my "plz critique me thread omgz" and there you would find not only Marth videos, but Fox ones as well. The matches are listed chronologically with the most recent ones near the top.

I'd very much appreciate critique of your calibre.

Cactuar · Dec 28, 2007

Who said anything about my dominance being limited to just a video game...

<3

Emblem Lord · Dec 28, 2007

I said so.

Because it's true.

And it's only one videogame.

See me in any other fighter Charles. <3

I'll get back to Tears of Sephiroth tommorrow. I have work soon and then I'll be busy at night.

Broly · Dec 28, 2007

oo, have u seen my vids? its in the marth section. only thing is try to see me playing w/ my face n not w/ 2 hands.

Emblem Lord · Dec 28, 2007

Gah.

People, please help me help you.

I don't wanna sift through your vids. I'm still pretty lazy you see. ;>_>

Just post the vids you want me to look at or the vids you think that show what you need to imrpove upon and I will critique them.

Epok · Dec 30, 2007

Could you give me some tips on my Marth. I have been playing him seriously for about a month now but i need a more experienced persons input. these are some of my better ones, i didnt want to give you too many at once. Thanks.

Match1

Match2

Match3

Emblem Lord · Dec 30, 2007

Tears of Sephiroth: I was all set up to critque your vids, but to be honest. I'm not going to. I honestly would have ahrd time looking over all the vids you posted in critqueing each one. I really liked your Marth from what I actually saw of it.

I want to do you justice and give you a solid critique though. Look through those vids and then post those and tell me to look at them and I will give you in-depth analysis of each Match and what you need to work on. Do this and you will have your critique.

Anyway, since I didn't critique ToS, I will go straight to firexemblemxpryde.

I'm only going to critque the latest Marth match in that thread link you posted.

Match 1 - Vs. Fox on Dreamland 64

You started off strong with a grab, but then you acted too soon and let a chance to follow up with something get away. You should have just waited a split second and then jumped up there with Fox and grabbed or just did a full jump nair so he would get hit as he came out of the tech roll.

I see alot of f-smssh spam, especially in the beggining. Don't just randomly throw those out and don't f-smash shields. it's not a good idea.

I'm also noticing some bad choices here and there and messed up combos. I saw you get this nice little combo off on Fox, but then you ended it with a jab when a grab would have been great. Know your options and pick the best one for the siutation. I also saw alot of shuffle fairs to f-smash. Not a good idea. Shuffled fairs lead to grabs on hit. That's a very basic Marth gameplay rule. Also you are mesisng chances to get easy kills and egde guarding opportunities. At one point you got a tipper fair on Fox and should have went for the Dair for the Ken combo, but you simply backed off. This goes back to what I said about knowing your options and follwing through. As for the edge guarding, well that's just somehting that you will have to work on. Don't be afraid to run out there and hit them though. Reading my other comments on other matches for more egde guarding tips.

Learn to smash DI Fox's uair.

AND MORE D-TILT PLZ!!!!!!

And of course, work on your CGing.

That should do for now.

Work on that and then get back to me.

Retroking2000 · Dec 31, 2007

noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo come on EL i am counting on you i have a tourney in 4 weeks
since you have so much knowledge of marth

just analyze thefirst 2 vids please i have edit my post

just to let you know you might laugh in vid 2 because we are from london unfortunately and a lot of voices in vid 2

Emblem Lord · Dec 31, 2007

ToS, I'll probably get to your critique on Wednesday. Gonna be busy tonight and new years day.

SaveTheQueen · Dec 31, 2007

Emblem Lord,

Thanks a lot for the advice I REALLY appreciate it. I completely obliterated my friend a few seconds after reading your advice in Marth vs Falco. It was awesome anyway I'll get some more vids up soon anyway OMFG "powershield to wavedash forward fsmash tipper." LAWL anyway thanks again.

STQ

knightpraetor · Dec 31, 2007

ya, emblem's like that..I notice EL complained a lot aobut passive edgeguarding vs fox..but that's all i end up doing as well..if they see me run off early they phantasm if they can..but i guess my biggest problem is always when i go off after them they drop so low, i'm guessing i need to fastfall my runoff to reach them in time..but i have no practice at such things..i guess i could try it on a comp though..the few times i've tried this in matches i get ***** by firefoxes due to not reaching them in time..or sometimes if they are too close to the stage i end up touching the flames and getting a ride until it executes and knocks me up..anyways passive edgeguarding is what i used today in my set vs IV.

but i sorta feel like i should learn to go off stage...9 fsmashes to kill..it was ridiculous..and sometimes because i dont get off towards them fast enough they'll have the option of going high wiht the firefox forcing me to nair them back off again, which often doens't knock them far enough so they can recover

Teczer0 · Dec 31, 2007

Knight - You should definitely go off the stage it has so many benefits and you don't need to fast fall really.

Just stay on the stage until fox goes under the height of the edge of the stage (sorry for the insanely bad grammer).

If he does go under fall and wait for the fire then hit him out of it. If he goes really low as in you can't up-b and make it back if you double jump f-air then just dancing blade the fox then up-b and edgehog.

The only hard part is if the fox knows how to sweetspot the stage and is relatively close to the stage. You have to decide if he is close enough fast fall off the stage and f-air. Or to drop down hug the stage double jump f-air fast fall up-b sweetspot the edge then b-air his recovery.

The good part about this edgeguarding is that if you do it correctly foxes are left with basically no options. The only way to they can escape really is if they trick you and cancel their illusion, sweetspot the edge and you miss your jab, you miss your jab and they go through you or above you, and if they fire sometimes they can bypass your counter with a sweetspot fire or have you counter then they go straight up and grab the edge.

knightpraetor · Dec 31, 2007

i'm trying to understand but it seems the 2nd part of what you said relates to me..i have trouble when they attempt to firefox on the line of fall that i will be taking down..i guess that means that i could just jump farther out instead of running off..but usually i'm running off immediately after jabbing them/countering them..so they are just falling and i'm not sure where they are DIing to..and i cut a lot of time by just running off instead of short hopping off...

but ya, if they were really close i guess i could grab the ledge and try to just drop and fair them really quick...not sure if the fire will catch me before the invuln frames where off but iff i'm careful hopefully not.

I guess that's what's been bothering me the most..the lack of a dair off the stage means that they tend to try to get directly below where i'm coming off at them from...

hopefully using the stage's invuln will help though...i guess i also have the option if i notice of continuing to di past them and then jumping a bair at them into the stage to immediate up B..or maybe even over-b instead.

if i notice them doing it a lot one thing that will work is just grabbing the ledge then falling a bair from the ledge...but that defeats my original goal of being able to immediately follow them off if i get a jab or counter off...so i guess i'll work on these other methods.

Teczer0 · Dec 31, 2007

So you have trouble edgeguarding foxes that are really near the edge of the stage?

If its so close as in maybe fox's head barely misses the edge of the stage stand above the stage above fox and counter. Then do a double jump f-air off the stage after the counter connects.

If he is a bit lower and you believe its at a height where he could possibly sweetspot the edge you can do one of two things.

You can run off the stage and double jump b-air them at LOW percents with the center of the b-air. At low percents non-tipped b-airs drops fox/falcos without giving them the option to tech the stage.

If they are at medium or high percents you can run off fast fall and dancing blade then you can try to hit a non-sweetspotted dolphin slash to make them fall even more down.

If you miss you can probably just jump onto the stage stand over it and counter and do a double jump f-air.

If they are really really low where they might grab the stage and not get hit by the counter just grab the ledge and edgehog.

Hope that helps if not.. well I can try to help if you have other problems etc.

knightpraetor · Dec 31, 2007

ya those are good ideas..it's just that i have no exp with either of those edgeguard types...and can't they DI the counter up and in? it just seems odd that i have so much trouble edgeguarding them when he chooses that position...below the ledge and like halfway down (allows them to ride the edge, go straight at me on the ledge or to go straight up and fall to the ledge)...which causes problems since if i am in position to counter, i am too close to fsmash and will get tagged by the firefox and vice versa, if i'm far enough to fsmash they are going to ride the ledge and try to sweetspot..i can of course bait them into thinking i'm going to stand there and counter, but i'd prefer something more reliable than 50-50, so i guess i better learn these off the edge guards

but ya i'm guessing he's DIing the counter in, because you'd think it would push him farther out:\

though i'm sure jabbing a fox/falco out of phantasm tends to set them into this ledgeguard place...i guess with falco i just hang hte ledge and then dair as he comes up..i suppose i could try those some too..not sure why i don't do that to fox..maybe cause he has more firefox angles so it's hard to gauge how long it will take him to climb the wall...

shrugs, i dunno what i'm thinking sometimes

Teczer0 · Dec 31, 2007

Your opponent can DI up and in but it won't change his predicament at all.

If he is halfway down hugging the stage I would probably go down and side b his fire then up -b back up and either counter or grab the stage.

Try it its not too hard as long as you make your judgements correctly. And you have an idea what your going to do to the fire and the possible outcomes of what may happen after you hit it.

I'll probably have some vids up of my marth for you EL

later though

Emblem Lord · Jan 2, 2008

Ok, ToS here we go.

Match 1 - Vs. Shiek on Battlefield

It seemed like you were trying to hang back a little in the beggining. You really can't camp Shiek unless you like eating needles all day. If you do want to camp her then you have to capitalize on when she throws needles. As soon as you see her body bend forward then you have to MOVE! If you are fast enough you can close the distance and maybe get a hit off, while she is lagging from her thrown needles. It's all situational though. It really depends on wether or not you have platfroms to speed up your approach and how good you are at reacting to her needle throw animation. Although if you are close and she throws them while she is standing then you can shield them and wavedash from shield. Once again, it's
situational.

00:10 - You got the hit of with the d-tilt, but I saw no pursuit.

00:19 - Read above.

00:26 - It would have been best to edgehog and then force ehr onto the stage and then she would have been at your mercy. You could have spaced well for a tipper f-smash or just thrown her off again to repeat the process.

00:28 - Ok ,dancing blade, alright thats...wait what? Why did you stop? No, seriously. Why? Shiek wasn't going to be able to stop the third hit, so why?

00:36 - Missed a golden opportunity to deal out some pain with that sword man. When shiek messes up her DI on your f-throw it's f-smash time.

00:37 - Short hop fair on a shield isn't smart as you learned first hand.

You seem to be pretty on point with your crouch cancels and your techs, but you seem to be taking alot of punishment when Shiek is close. You have to realize that Marth is a swordsman and as such, he has a "zone" of control. When someone gets inside his zone, he needs to reset his spacing or take a gamble with one his faster moves. I'll say now that about 90% oif the time when someone gets right in Marth's face then his best bet is to roll forwards or backwards. He just doesn't have the tools to fight up close and personal. But if you absolutely need to fight up close then he has a few moves that you should stick to.

The first move is his u-tilt. Fast, does decent damage and good start-up time. It's his third fastest ground move hitting as early as frame 6. A good combo starter and a decent kill move at higher percents. It's asolid close range option, but if it's shieled your goose is cooked so be cautious.

The second is grabbing. Marth has the third longest grab range in the game. Grab box lands on frame 7. Good for combos, set-ups and getting people off your a$$. Use it or stop playing the game.

The last thing that Marth can do that is reliable is short hop back to nair or fair. Short hopping back when someone is trying to rush him allows hiw to keep his spacing, and still keep an offensive wall up, to protect himself. Plus he can roll or dash when he lands to stay slippery and fluid.

A jab or the dancing blade can be useful when they try to rush Marth, but if they are already inside his zone then avoid them, since they are crouch cancelable even at very high percents and very laggy. U-tilt is also laggy, but it's potential for combos and kills makes it worth the risk.

I'll say it again. On defense you are too good to be true. Your techs are amazing IMO. Shiek just couldn't kill you. And your CCing was too nice. It's on your offense when you are lacking. I mean I'm not seeing any long combo chains where you could have gone for 6 hits easily. I even saw you combo into d-smash, when it could have been a reverse dolphin slash or an u-tilt to w/e. When you did get the ken combo off you let him back on, when you should have edge guarded.

Seems like everyone always has trouble with thier combos and their follow-ups. You have to work on those. As I ahve told others, Know when to continue comboing and when to end it. And end it with something that will get you the kill or set-up for edge guarding.

Also let me give you an anti-Shiek strategy.

When you grab Shiek, u-throw her. If she is at 0 then I'm farily certain that she can't escape an u-tilt. Combo from there. Usually 2 or 3 more u-tilts to fairs to w/e. If her percetn is higher, then after the u-throw, wait for her to double jump then jump after her and fair. She has now wasted her jump. Please proceed to death combo her. Non tippered fairs and the occasional u-air is in order for this, but adapt accordingly to her DI.

Also stop b-throwing people. Marth's backthrow isn't that good. Stick to d-throw if you want them to go backwards.

Match 2 - Vs. Marth on Dreamland 64

00:17 - Should have been a spike right here. Get your kills as quickly, efficiently, and effortlessly as possible.

00:20 - Wavedash back while edgeguarding why? You are supposed to be dgeguarding no? So why give your opponent breathing room? Marth doesn't need to back off. He has a sword.

00:44: Huh? Jab? huh? F-SMASH PLZ!!!!

00:46 - B-throw. -_- No.

01:35 - And the edgehog was where?

02:45 - This REALLY should have been a kill for you. A spike, a nair to edge gaurding, something, anything!

03:19 - Fair on hit to spot dodge? No, sir. That is incorrect.

So , basically with this match I saw a replay of the first one you posted. Great defense, but sloppy offense.

You need to really work on that edgeguarding. I think you edgehogged maybe twice? There were alot of times where edgehogging would have got the kill, but you just stood there. Even worse is when you would actually back off and give your opponent the chance to come back onto the stage. Edgehog more and please go off the stage for some aggressive edgeguarding.

Also the u-throw to u-tilt combo works in this match too. Just adjust what you do from there depending on DI. Usually after the u-tilt you do a bair to uair while fast falling to ensure they can't fair you after your fair. but if you sweetspot the bair then you could combo normally. If you did use the uair then follow up with fairs to w/e.

Overall you seem like a defensive Marth since you like to hang back, which means you have to make your hits and combos count. Work on what I have told you and then show me your progress.

I hope I helped you.

Emblem Lord · Jan 2, 2008

Broly: I can't critique you my man.

You are on another level. Must take alot of courage to get that good with such an obstacle
in your path. You are a greater man then most. But as a I said, I can't critique you. I have no idea if you think you can improve or if you have hit your limit or w/e. All I cna say is keep playing and props to you man.

Epok, you're up.

Ok, well I'm not going to go in-depth here because just from watching your vids I could tell immdiately that you don't have a full grasp on Marth's capabilities. You weren't even bring out half of what he is in terms of speed, power, and comboability as well as his ability to control a match.

So instead of an in-depth critique, I will tell you the things I noticed and the things you should work on and why.

Bad habits/Mistakes

You don't combo often, finish them, stop them too short or don't follow through with them.

You don't edgehog.

You don't dash dance that much.

You don't wavedash often.

You don't grab often or use your grabs for combos.

You make poor choices in how you approach.

You overuse the jab.

You spam f-smash.

You mess up combo opportunities trying to go for f-smashes that won't hit or get shielded.

You don't edgeguard.

You use counter too much.

You over use short hop to immediate fair too much.

Basically, this is all the stuff that caught my eye as soon as I watched your vids. You need to work on all of these aspects of your game. Reing in those ba habits because they make you preditchable and leave you open. Rely more on solid approach methods that aren't as risky as that short hop fair.

F-smash spam is never a good thing, along with jab spam, counter spam, and dancing blade spam. This stuff also leaves you wide open. Dashing dancing and wave dashing more will open the door to becoming more unpredictable, faster and more difficult to read. And yeah, it will help that stupid, overused, but misunderstood word. Mindgames.

Edgehogging and edge guarding is the best way to get kills and usually the most reliable. If you don't do it then you are making things ten times harder for yourself and making things alot easier for your opponent. There is no reason not to do it, especially vs Captain Falcon who is one of, if not THE easiest character in the game to edgeguard.

And lastly, work on those combos Epok. Expriment in practice mode and get a feel for what works on what percentages. Look at Marth vids vs CF if you need someplace to start. There are plenty of combo vids on youtube for you to get some ideas.

Here is an approaching guide for Marth. http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=102436

Hope I helped.

Oh and BTW.

DOUBLE POST FTW!!!

FrostByte · Jan 3, 2008

I'll give it a shot. These vids are a bit old though

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=siWduYtGWCA Vs Jiggs
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=LL0omm5eDYY Vs Sheik
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWIBlplKQSU Vs Falcon
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=A9ezABUAv2s Vs Falco
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=LqVFYwxgOEA Vs Sheik again

Retroking2000 · Jan 3, 2008

jeez that was harsh criticism but i am glad you were direct thanks emblem prince thanks alot hopefully i will have more recorded matches soon

princetoma · Jan 7, 2008

well i will put my vids of my marth pretty soon just got my web cam. =D

Heart Break Kid · Jan 7, 2008

yea so umm i have 2 vids which need to be evaluated. cuz i thinks theres room for improvement in them

match 1- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSMz6FVDdRI&feature=related
match 2- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CFv0sWt3hE&NR=1

the second match is real old but its the only one that I could get that involves a space animal.

Also if you could critique my teams game thatd be awesome

Team match- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9K3-jUdbi0&feature=related

sorry for the quality and the crappy song in the 2nd vid...

LMAO...<3

Emblem Lord · Jan 7, 2008

ForstByte: I'm off from work tommorrow so you will have your critique then.

HBK: All I gotta do is remember that strife is in TSA NY and all of a sudden your little jokes are meaningless.

^_^

And I'll be the first one to admit that I'm not good at this game.

Alot of knowledge =/= alot of skill.

Jx31 · Jan 7, 2008

I have a couple of matches I want critiqued.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61wnyXsOG20 I think I did ok in this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qB5oVIP-r7o This one I get steamrolled

thebluedeath1000 · Jan 8, 2008

Emblem, you're critquing like I do.

Copycat!

You never did it when I was around, so now you have to act like me too?

For shame!

Witchking_of_Angmar · Jan 8, 2008

EL, you made at least 2 mistakes in ToS' critique: Marth has the 4th longest grab hitbox, and if you do an uthrow on Sheik at under 10-ish %, she can come down with a nair before the utilt comes out. It's mostly just M2K that does it though, lol.

Emblem Lord · Jan 8, 2008

Frostbyte: Gah.

You know the rules dammit! Pick the vids that you think show what you need improvement on or that you think really need critiqueing. Do that and then you will be critiqued. I didn't even noticed that you had posted like 7 vids.

Anyway, Jx31 here you are.

Match 1 - Vs. Mario on Pokemon Stadium

00:03 - You lead in with a nair. It worked, but fair probably would have been better. When you got the hit you went for another nair. This wasn't wise, since nair to nair doesn't combo. Some better options would have been u-tilt, SH double fair, or grab.

00:05 - You jump from your shield and get u-tilted. You should have just rolled from your shield since Mario landing behind you put you in a bad position.

00:07 - D-throw to f-smash that was't properly spaced. A d-tilt would have been good here or edge hog to spike when he used his up b.

00:12 - A messed up combo here. Should have did another jump to nair, shield breaker or reverse dolphin slash. And then when you missed you jump backwards eating Mario's bair. if you wanted to jump back you should have done so with a bair to cover yourself with.

00:13 and 00:16 - More messed up chances to combo. You got off hits with fairs each time but made no attempt to follow up.

00:25 - Eh. You were facing the other way when you shielded so rolling was ok. But Mario expectd it and you ate a nair. A better choice would have been to SH dair and pop him up for some comboing. Your instinct was to get away and Mario took advantage of that.

Seeing alot of nairs with missed l-cancels after you come back form your first death. Approach with other things as well and be sure to l-cancel. You also u-throw Mario when you got your hands on him when it would have been better to d-throw him.

00:53 - All that silly jumping around when a simple edgehog would have done it. Why all that useless movement? Be simple. Be efficient. Be deadly.

01:07 - Slow on the follow-up attempt. Mario gets away as a result and regains his balance.

01:34 - Don't know why you would start a Dancing Blade with that much space in between you and your opponent. Maybe you wanted to shield stab the top of his shield or maybe you were thinking he would drop it as you can in for the last hit. There is no way this would work vs a good player though.

01:55 - Another missed combo opportunity.

02:28 - You meteor cancelled, but then went for the dolphin slash. You must be more aware of your actions, becuase if you were you would have realized that there was no need to do that.

02:39 - Jumping towards Mario was a mistake on your part. You were at a strong disadvantage at that point still being in the air while he was on the ground.

02:51 - Just looks like a blatant overshoot or you just idn't stop in time or weren't paying attention.

03:22 - F-throw or b-throw. No u-throw.

03:27 - Poor follow up to the nair.

03:29 - Mario slips in when you short hop. You made a big mistake SHing when an opponent was that close. This game Mario a huge opening that he cost you the match.

So what I saw alot of was the usual bad habits and characteristics of Marth's and players in general who have yet to bring out the full potential of their characters.

You could look over some of my past critiques to geta feel for what you need to work on, but I'll give you the run down right now.

- Work on edgeguarding.

- Work on speeding up your game.

- Dash Dance to control space, apply pressure, advance, retreat, etc. In short, DD with a purpose and not for the sake of DDing in of itself.

- Work on your combos and correctly follow up to any combo set-ups. Experiment in practice mode and watch vids to get started.

- Edgehog more.

- Master l-cancelling.

- More d-tilts and shuffled fairs.

- Less nairs.

Match 2 - Vs. Mario on Final Destination

This match was honestly just a rehash of the first one so just follow all of my advice from your first vid.

There isn't much else to say.

Look ove your vids again and you will see alot of obvious mistakes like missed edgehogs and missed combos that shouldn't even be a problem at all.

Another thing I will say is work on your DI.

General rule of thumb for DI is to DI away when being comboed. DI up and towards the stage when hit with a kill move. When your percentage is really high DI into the ground so you can tech when you are hit with a kill move.

Also work on your teching. Teching and DI saves lives. Remember that.

Edit: Witchking of Angmar: My bad. I counted the links as one person for somereason when considering grab range. Does it matter though. My point is that Marth has really long grab range.

Also if Shiek does that then Marth should start DDing to grab or shieldgrab.

Echo · Jan 9, 2008

ok well, i'm not really looking for a full critique or anything, just some friendly constructive criticism. I don't really lurk the marth forums too often, so forgive me if this is the wrong place to do this.

these are the finals from a tourney in Iowa, like 3 months ago:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IqIrvaVsoU - Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0wOQdUzqWE - Part 2
dont know why the guy put them in 2 parts, but oh well.

just thought it'd be fun to put them up, if you guys are interested in checking them out. Thanks

Buh · Jan 10, 2008

SaveTheQueen · Jan 10, 2008

Hold the controller upside down that might help ya! xD <3 <3 <3 j/k

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