Elements and Attributes Mafia - Game Over!

[Aggressive Mediation]

OK, FUD might be a bit too harsh a word but the fact that you say "it remains to be seen whether he's town or not" bothers me. For two reasons mainly: first, what remains to be seen is whether he's scum or not because we're all innocent until proven guilty. You've twisting this inherently fundamental logic of scum hunting. As long as it's not being taken overboard then it's OK to sheep a power player a little and see what happens. It's not like we don't learn anything about the waggoned player, the "leader" and the sheeps. Discouraging a wagon on such principles is anti-town. Getting hooked on a provokative term like "sheeping" and "buddying" not a justficiation imo especially if you look at the way these terms have been handled in this game's context so far.

Personally I just view everyone else as null and let them prove what they are. No reason to think someone's town without them earning that type of a view. That's just a fundamental difference in point of view, though.

I like the PJB wagon early, if he does get so agitated. Him trying to say it's an RVS wagon when it has a few teeth to it is a blatant strawman of the reasons Swiss and Gheb have given for it.

vote: PJB

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

I find it incredibly ironic that Gheb is the one who came in here and advocated that it's totally fine for people to be sheep.

As an aside, this made me laugh.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

unvote

Not sure what PJB's at, I'll go back and count in a second.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

I'm leading this game, you will sheep me.

 

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

unvote

Not sure what PJB's at, I'll go back and count in a second.

tfw math hydra cant keep up with numbers

actually reading this game now

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

I'm obliging Swiss request.

Vote: PJB

Why? Because you were asked to? I would hope you'd put more thought into your actions than simply obliging a man because of his name.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Your opposing sheeting because they are sheeping, do you not consider why they are sheeping.

Sheeping, as far as I'm concerned, is following a player for the sake of who they are, as opposed to what they're actually doing.

I'm not failing to consider why they're sheeping, I'm operating under the assumption that if there's a good reason to do something, it's not sheeping.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

tfw math hydra cant keep up with numbers

actually reading this game now

Too much English, not enough Math. You factoring hectopascals throw too many subjects at me and it detracts from my real beauty.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

Yoooooo

vote joker

Unless I missed a factor, this post puts PJB at L-2.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Sheeping, as far as I'm concerned, is following a player for the sake of who they are, as opposed to what they're actually doing.

I'm not failing to consider why they're sheeping, I'm operating under the assumption that if there's a good reason to do something, it's not sheeping.

Then you realize that not everyone is simply sheeping. Yes?

There us a reason people are doing this.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Not speaking entirely for Swords and JTB but there is a reason people have done this wagon.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

I feel like the point of this discussion has gone well over your head, Ryu.

I'm not accusing my wagonners of sheeping. The reason sheeping is a topic of discussion is because Kantrip asked me about sheeping, I answered, and have been subsequently grilled on the subject since then.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

It is relatable though.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

Bad post.

You think people would simple connect because you joined an early RVS wagon?

Good catch from Ruy. It's rather overreactionary from PJB to make assumptions like that.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

It is relatable though.

I don't understand what you're getting at.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

Sheeping, as far as I'm concerned, is following a player for the sake of who they are, as opposed to what they're actually doing.

I'm not failing to consider why they're sheeping, I'm operating under the assumption that if there's a good reason to do something, it's not sheeping.

The only one guilty of that definition, from what I've seen, has been Swordy, so I don't understand your premise here.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

EBWOP: And JTB, but JTB's such a shameless coaster that it's not as noteworthy to me.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

D

EBWOP: And JTB, but JTB's such a shameless coaster that it's not as noteworthy to me.

ditto on this.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Good catch from Ruy. It's rather overreactionary from PJB to make assumptions like that.

It's not an assumption, it's a possibility. There are possible pros and cons to sheeping a player whose alignment you don't know, and I listed what I feel is a con. At this point we're discussing mafia theory.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

ACEN awaits, later gents.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

It's not an assumption, it's a possibility. There are possible pros and cons to sheeping a player whose alignment you don't know, and I listed what I feel is a con. At this point we're discussing mafia theory.

Anyone calling you out for following Swiss so early D1 that it's damn near impossible to peg him as mafia would be reaching so hard to picture you as scum that you could easily call them out for such. It's an overreaction.

 

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

lol all this sheeping discussion is bull. Who cares about the term, early pressure wagons are good.

Like, I might be willing to follow S&C if I think they're town, but I'm not gonna just hand them thread power based on absolutely nothing. That's stupid, and it's not something I'm willing to do with anybody. The fact that it's S&C is irrelevant here.

Don't you think giving them the spotlight gives us more information about them to examine, though?
I'd like to know as much about Swiss as I can <3

Needlessly connecting myself to players I don't necessarily trust is just... not smart.

The what? How is that a priority?

My reads are superior, because you are likely scum.

I have gained enlightenment.

I have become superior.

~

Real talk though you should help wagon Rake/Ran, then we Wagon PJB to read them.

Deal?

EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

even if this is an RVS post

EWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

 

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

It's like you didn't try to think about why and just wanted to oppose it because that is "townie"

i like dis post tho

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

As an aside, I'm thoroughly surprised Ruy isn't in on a hydra with the word "Fox" in its name. Twice.

Out for now, be back later kids.

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

2. BadWolf28738 - I'd suggest you outline to me your D1 strategy, you are under no obligation to respond.

Tired as crap, skimmed. Will be happier and read more tomorrow. Right now first impressions are lots of annoying people who I wouldn't trust with my vote trying for thread power, who clearly forgot about Agressive Med. Basically that ****'s not going down, and it's not even my decision.

PJB is being.... PJB. I'm fairly certain that he's just being him but I'm going to read more in depth later.

School's almost out and so am I.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

I like the PJB wagon early, if he does get so agitated. Him trying to say it's an RVS wagon when it has a few teeth to it is a blatant strawman of the reasons Swiss and Gheb have given for it.

vote: PJB

I only just noticed this post in all the clutter that was popping up at the time.

What teeth did Swiss and Gheb give the wagon? Particularly, Swiss. What'd Swiss say that had you so convinced it was a good wagon? Quote it for me.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

As an aside, I'm thoroughly surprised Ruy isn't in on a hydra with the word "Fox" in its name. Twice.

Out for now, be back later kids.

It's a One Puece character, I would never lay a finger on anything from there.

/OnePiecehater4life.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

lol all this sheeping discussion is bull. Who cares about the term, early pressure wagons are good.


Don't you think giving them the spotlight gives us more information about them to examine, though?
I'd like to know as much about Swiss as I can <3


The what? How is that a priority?


EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

even if this is an RVS post

EWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

I must assert my dominance, he will learn his place.

But I am not gonna stonewall what he is doing, I offer looking more at Rake/Ran and he will gain my help with PJB more.

He is likely scum though, let's Quick lynch him and just not question it. He's lying about telling the mod he didn't roll. I caught his scum tell, we will not miss this chance again!

WL I think PJB doesn't react entirely well under pressure as either alignment. I'm trying to defer fake from real on this. I have mixed signals from him on how he is answering people.

Rake/Ran tell me who your mates are, or before that tell me about Swords post where he votes PJB.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Panel time later.

 

[Handorin]

At work, Internet is being spotty so I can only read page 1 really

SC- that was a serious post, not meant to throw crumbs everywhere. I've said stuff like that in other games to explain my style and get people to stop barking up the wrong tree. The questions still stand though and I want them answered.

 

[JTB]

Gheb stop twisting my words. I didn't say there wasn't merit in early wagons, I don't see any reason to join this one.

So what reason do we have to join the Kantrip wagon? What have you done to show that he is a better choice than PJB and it's something town would benefit from?

You'll never be challenger tier if you don't carry your team!

 

[JTB]

EBWOP: And JTB, but JTB's such a shameless coaster that it's not as noteworthy to me.

I'm trying to be active this game :v

I won't let you down sir!

 

[Kantrip]

Personally, I'm not of the opinion that sheeping somebody who's alignment you don't know is a good idea. Even if it's technically harmless, I'm not willing to put myself in a position where S&C flips scum later, and then people come in later saying stuff like "lol, look, pjb must be scum cuz he sheeped S&C early on!" Needlessly connecting myself to players I don't necessarily trust is just... not smart.

Now if S&C were making points that I agree with, that's a different case entirely. But that's not something that has, ya know, happened yet. The game just started.

I dislike this post. It states sheeping is bad because it could put you in a bad position later if you were sheeping scum and they flip. That drawback is purely self-preservation. I don't like that that is the kind of thing Joker is worried about.

 

[Handorin]

So what? Self preservation is pretty vital, unless you're fool and love to attract attention.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Putting that first over scum hunting is not something a townie should do.

 

[Gova]

1. Handorin ()
2. BadWolf28738 ()
3. Aggressive Mediation ()
4. Dark Horse ()
5. Gheb_01 ()
6. JTB ()
7. frozenflame751 ()
8. Potassium (Foxy)
9. Sworddancer.()
10. Red Ruy ()
11. PrivateJoker-Brown (K, S&C, Sword, JTB)
12. Foxy the Silver Fox ()
13. Scylla & Charybdis (RR)

Not voting: Handorin, BW, DH, Gheb, FF, AM

With 13 playing it takes 7 lynch!

Deadline is Monday, May 27th at 11:59 CST (GMT-6).

 

[Scylla & Charybdis]

So what? Self preservation is pretty vital, unless you're fool and love to attract attention.

Hando, you scum again?

 

[Scylla & Charybdis]

For the record, the objective of town is to kill scum, how much attention you grab doing it is irrelevant. Town will defend themselves when necessary cause you don't want any confirmed town to die, but if no scum lynches happen, town loses by default because they're on a timer, every no lynch is a free scum kill but a town lynch is a faster route to endgame. So town needs to be pro-active and do what it takes to kill scum, only caring about self-defense if it's necessary to prevent a confirmed townie (to the townie, themselves) from dying.

There are finer points of putting this into practice, especially when you consider strong PRs, but the fundamental weakness that scum has is their priority is survival, town reveals scum by showing their priority is survival over killing scum. Of course, there are dumbass town that do this too, but part of being a good townie is to recognize whether somebody is being dumb or scummy.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Putting that first over scum hunting is not something a townie should do.

I don't consider "sheeping" and "scumhunting" to be synonymous. Maybe you do. Sheeping is something bad players do because they dunno how to play this game themselves. I'm not one of those players. Your entire argument is based on the premise that self preservation is less important than scumhunting. I don't think I have to sacrifice one for the other, though.

 

[Scylla & Charybdis]

I don't like your phrasing. A lot of new players feel as you do, that self-preservation from lynches are important preemptively, but I don't see any mention of the. You seem overly nervous and timid given something that was initially just an RVS wagon/swiss asserting dominance.