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Eldiran's PSAs 'n' Stuff: Newest - Zero 1.4
- Thread starter Eldiran
- Start date
- Status
LordshadowRagnarok
Smash Journeyman
Eld... gimme it nao... I wanna break things again... new changes means new problems and I haven't had my daily "Break ****" fix T_T
<33333333
Dair is so good at low percents. And lol @ zero being immune to grabs.
Lol @ Dair : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S52t6U1zVT8
Dair is so good at low percents. And lol @ zero being immune to grabs.
Lol @ Dair : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S52t6U1zVT8
phantomphungus
Smash Journeyman
All of these random PSA and professional abbreviations make my head hurt and frustrated. Can somebody PLEASE for ONE TIME put these things in plain English? Or at least offer a translation... >.>
BKB is Base KB, KBG = KB Growth or how well the KB scales with higher percents.
KB = knockback.
IASA = Interruptable as Soon as, meaning it's interruptable by anything as soon as x frame happens.
SDI = Smash DI, Smash Bros Basics really. :V
KB = knockback.
IASA = Interruptable as Soon as, meaning it's interruptable by anything as soon as x frame happens.
SDI = Smash DI, Smash Bros Basics really. :V
Rykoshet
Smash Champion
Ftilt trips, cant be SDIed, and you can act out of the spear spin quicker. Meaning it's a kill setup. Second hit of ftilt now actually has some worthwhile knockback, same with down tilt and the second hit of up tilt. Fsmash is faster, fthrow is stronger in general and you can act out of it faster, back throw is stronger all around. You can act out of dthrow faster. Dsmash does less knockback in general but kills faster (not faster than before, faster in relation to damage built) at higher percents.
Eldiran
Smash Lord
Sorry, I was in a hurry to upload it and the info and then go to dinner. I'll put up a laymen's changelist in a bit. Anyway, enjoy the new version! He should be quite potent now.
Kaye Cruiser
Waveshocker Sigma
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2009
- Messages
- 8,032
- NNID
- KayeCruiser
- Switch FC
- 0740-7501-7043
phantomphungus
Smash Journeyman
No. No it is not.
Rykoshet
Smash Champion
It's there, stop being difficult.
Anyway the mobility afforded through double jump and down canceling dash makes the move a load better, thank you.
Anyway the mobility afforded through double jump and down canceling dash makes the move a load better, thank you.
Eldiran
Smash Lord
Nice catch. That was from when Wisp was separated into multiple posts.
@Rykoshet: Good to hear it.
EDIT: Forgot to mention, I also included a black armor Zero texture with the download.
Rykoshet
Smash Champion
Ftilt is a really good semi spike now. I'm still QQing slightly about nair and the laser but otherwise the updates given are pretty spectacular.
Eldiran
Smash Lord
LordshadowRagnarok
Smash Journeyman
Zero is too fun to play right now. I may not ever let link back into my game.
Probably because how slow it comes out in ratio to how much you have to commit to the move and even if you get it out in time, the move has so little shield stun, you're giving a negative frame advantage meaning you get punished for using ftilt.
It's still not a good move even though it works better.
You should only use this move if you KNOW you're going to hit, but if you know you're going to hit, you, once again, should be using a better move.
Ftilt is overshadowed. Like Uair.
imo, the only moves you should be using with Zero are:
Nair (x84735739453745345937453 to the power of 420538458034853453)
Side B
Utaunt (Only if you have Utaunt mapped to like X/Y/R/L/Z)
Fair
Grab
Dthrow
Pummel
Bthrow
Fthrow
Uthrow
JabPummel
Bthrow
Fthrow
Uthrow
Dair
Bair
Dtilt
Dsmash
Usmash (only as a combo finisher)
Utilt
and Up B.
Maybe Fsmash with speed up.
Everything else? no go imo.
It's still ao good portion of his moveset, but the lower you go, the less you should be using it. Big usage cut off at Bair - Dtilt
sinistersnakesennin
Smash Ace
I'm sure this has been addressed within the thread already, but due to the fact that there is no mention of it on the front page and there are 44 pages to go through, with the word "dash" being repeated A LOT, I feel the need to ask.
Why is there no running animation? I understand the need for balance with slow speed, given that he has a very nicely done dash, but having Zero literally STOP as soon as I try to dash is really screwing up my game.
Honestly, if there were any way I could replace this with his currently used dash animation, gawd, I'd be in heaven.
Why is there no running animation? I understand the need for balance with slow speed, given that he has a very nicely done dash, but having Zero literally STOP as soon as I try to dash is really screwing up my game.
Honestly, if there were any way I could replace this with his currently used dash animation, gawd, I'd be in heaven.
Eldiran
Smash Lord
@:V I understand what you mean. How do you think Zero is faring, by the way?
Zero actually does run, it just looks very similar to walking and goes only a very small amount faster. Basically, Zero's run speed sucks. As you know, this is to counterbalance his Side+B as well as give a significant drawback to his Down+B.
Good question! The only differences currently are that the momentum out of aerial dash may be at different speeds (haven't tested myself, and if they are it's not drastic) and that the landing lag on his aerials are reduced by half or more.
Photos
Smash Journeyman
what is the easiest way to get this stuff? i tried BB, but i couldn't get it to work. i mean, i got balenced brawl up and running, but i couldn't get wisp working. and i can't get BB to work always, i'd use it once or twice, and then the next night it wouldn't work. it seems i am very inept in this.
![[TSON]](/data/avatars/l/114/114196.jpg?1360761019){kind=avatar}
[TSON]
Hella.
sideB+nair spam eliminated? That was a LARGE problem with the old Brawl+ test build you let out. You could just sideB+nair all day and win.
Eldiran
Smash Lord
@Photos: I'm not sure how things like that happen. If you have gotten it working before, and do the same thing to run the game each time, then it should always work. Is anything different from your seperate tries?
Actually, I was given the impression you could just side+B nair all day and lose. I mean, it's his best option, but he still was apparently underpowered. I didn't do anything to make it worse, so it will still probably see a lot of use... but the fact that other things have become better should give more incentive to do something other than Side B and nair.
[TSON]
Hella.
Seriously, try it. He whores up the whole stage and not even Ness's fair can hit through it >_>;;
Eldiran
Smash Lord
Well, I use BBrawl, so it seems alright to me. It leaves him vulnerable unless it's at the right percents/positioning/angle/etc. It's entirely possible that Zero can use it with impunity in B+ due to the increased hitstun and decreased landing lag, in which case I'd have to increase the landing lag to account for that.
The move comes out on frame 11 and doesn't have a lot of shield stun. The only thing that makes it good is the fact that he slides past you making it hard to punish him.
But timing sidesteps properly > IAD Nair because IAD Nair is extremely predictable and because it's good, he going to rely on it more than other tactics. Hell. He's only decent because of IAD. And that doesn't have a hitbox and its predictable.
Yea. It's hella good. But it's far from unstoppable/unpunishable/unbeatable.
I've had CPUs beat out my SH IAD Nair more times than I care to mention even though I spaced and timed my inputs right because nair comes out soo slow and even when it did come out, they could read inputs and spot dodge.
@Eldiran: I think he's decent now. Not balls, but not high/top tier. All we need to do is tweak him to reward advanced usage of IAD, CAID, Dsmash Jump Storing, and all that good stuff. If anything. I want to reduce the percent of Nair and compensate KB so it's less safe on shield and wracks up less damage without comboing better. Non-reversable KB on Nair made it a lot better AND easier to use.
Rykoshet
Smash Champion
Wait wut with the jump storing?
Yea. You can store the Boost dsmash gets by Usmashing at the right time as all Dsmash does after the attack is force zero to jump. The longer you charge, the higher you jump. A fully charged Dsmash sends you about 80% of the screen up on BF ground level.
And since it makes you jump, you can JC Usmash and it stores the height of your jump for the next time you jump/dsmash but the charge is lost if you get hit.
You can also Full hop the dsmash by holding jump as you dsmash.
So you could store a fully charged dsmash and jump 30 seconds later and go practically to the top of the screen, allowing Zero to do not only horizontal chases, but vertical (lold3, lolmk, lolpit, lolpeach, lolkirby, lolsnake, loljiggz, lolanotherzero, lolwisp, lolmanchu, loletcetc)
And since it makes you jump, you can JC Usmash and it stores the height of your jump for the next time you jump/dsmash but the charge is lost if you get hit.
You can also Full hop the dsmash by holding jump as you dsmash.
So you could store a fully charged dsmash and jump 30 seconds later and go practically to the top of the screen, allowing Zero to do not only horizontal chases, but vertical (lold3, lolmk, lolpit, lolpeach, lolkirby, lolsnake, loljiggz, lolanotherzero, lolwisp, lolmanchu, loletcetc)
[TSON]
Hella.
Dsmash and Nair take way to long to come out combo. They can't combo at all.
Also, Wifi = dumb. Zero is like Ike over wifi. better than he should be. Zero is a hard character to punish, so trying to seriously punish him online is like trying to properly space with marth online.
Also, just because it's glick doesnt mean anything. There are too many variables between you and glick to say "this this and that"
if it starts to happen consistently with multiple people over time, then okay.
Also, Wifi = dumb. Zero is like Ike over wifi. better than he should be. Zero is a hard character to punish, so trying to seriously punish him online is like trying to properly space with marth online.
Also, just because it's glick doesnt mean anything. There are too many variables between you and glick to say "this this and that"
if it starts to happen consistently with multiple people over time, then okay.
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
i don't know if it will work for Pal, but you can get the standard brawl version in the OP.
Rykoshet
Smash Champion
There's not a single aerial he can use to get out of strings, so he suffers the exact same way ike does that the only aerial actions he can do are overly commited aerials which you can see from a mile away and are heavily heavily heavily punishable if dodged/blocked, or air dodging which just resets the situation or they can wait it out and punish. Falls fast as hell, has nothing but up B to commit to if he's hit out of his side B. Air dodging at all off the stage is an automatic commit to a low, very likely zair-assisted (see: Hogged) recovery. Character's low tier tbh, Ike is downright terrible and honestly has more going for him. In plus I can see him being mid-ish due to the system being better for him but in reg brawl, character is garbs.
[TSON]
Hella.
Ryo242
Smash Ace
I'd like to test him out a bit online if anyone is interested. The smashboards chat room heavily dislikes me. Friend Code is on my profile. Send me a PM and let's test!
Edit: I'm noticing that the Smash ball effect disappears occasionally. Not sure why, am testing it right now.
Edit Edit: Okay, apparently grabbing the edge multiple times after grabbing the Smash Ball causes it to wear off without you being able to use the Final Smash. Though this doesn't occur all the time... AH! I found it, if he clings to the wall he loses the Smash Ball Effect (the glowing right before you can use a Final Smash). Another thing, if he dies after using the Final Smash, he respawns with the effects still working.
Edit: I'm noticing that the Smash ball effect disappears occasionally. Not sure why, am testing it right now.
Edit Edit: Okay, apparently grabbing the edge multiple times after grabbing the Smash Ball causes it to wear off without you being able to use the Final Smash. Though this doesn't occur all the time... AH! I found it, if he clings to the wall he loses the Smash Ball Effect (the glowing right before you can use a Final Smash). Another thing, if he dies after using the Final Smash, he respawns with the effects still working.
Eldiran
Smash Lord
This is terrible if true, but as someone who doesn't play B+, I'll have to rely on further tests for changes.
I don't think Fair, Uair, or Bair are very committed aerials. But, I can see how he might be easily caught in strings. Have you found him to be terrible in practice, or is this conjecture based on his sometimes poor recovery?
That is very odd. Thank you for testing to figure it out... I wish I knew the intricacies of Final Smashes, but alas, I do not. For now I don't know how I would fix this.
And yeah, he does keep the Final Smash after dying. This is because I don't know how to make anything happen based on the character dying. If anyone does know, please inform me.
Rykoshet
Smash Champion
The lack of side B is just something I notice regardless but the clunkiness of the character makes him very sluggish in practice. In effect, the character can be punished for connecting certain moves at the wrong time and his lack of ground mobility without overutilizing his dash combined with his pretty paltry aerial game (most of the moves have to be done on ascent and that means that if youre committing to an aerial on the way down all it really takes is someone baiting you into acting with aerials that take as long as marth's fsmash to come out with terrible landing lag to dodge and punish you for it). Lack of an effective walling game, lack of a fluid projectile game aside from the boomerang which in effect completely removes his ground and aerial mobility means the character has a lot of sitting duck situations, even if he connects. His boomerang is rather good, but the character right now is too clunky to be defensive and way too open to be offensive.
Side B restoring is mainly a design gripe because there's no such thing as a move that doesnt require a charge suddenly disappearing if you're hit, it's just incongruent to the way brawl works in general. I'm assured that "oh he can make it back even if you do smack him out of his side B" but he's lighter than link and doesnt have that ridiculous vertical resistance to make up for it. The options out of side B are rather amazing though so I'll try to make due but mediocre/arguably bad recovery/weak ground game/lacking mobility/weak camping game/weak pressure game = all around weak character.
Rykoshet
Smash Champion
I'm gonna have to agree. It's a lot easier to rein in a move that is previously slightly overpowered than progressively attempt to make a move better instead of ignoring it's main flaw. As it stands despite it originally being designed for regular brawl, the plus version is dwarfing the regular brawl version because they dont have to worry about lacking hitstun causing retaliation on moves conneecting and nair is bordering on broken because defensive options are so inferior compared to regular brawl. You could make the move have as little lag as the plus version and it wouldnt matter because shields are much better in regular brawl.
LordshadowRagnarok
Smash Journeyman
Eld, his Down Smash doesn't give him anything of a jump if he destroys a block that's under him. (i.e. Mushroomy Kingdom/Yoshi's Island (Melee))
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