Early Smash 5 Fan-Made Rosters (Ideal or Prediction)

[Luminario]

I present to you.. The most ridiculous, impossible, probably DUMBEST roster you've ever seen..

Super Smash Brothers.. 210.

Even with 210 characters Fire Emblem can't get away from all the swords .
That's a **** ton of characters. How long did that take?

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

Even with 210 characters Fire Emblem can't get away from all the swords .
That's a **** ton of characters. How long did that take?

An hour. Give or take since I had to go back af ew times to fix mistakes. Was going to go farther but decided F*** THAT! I have a few more I'd like to add though.. Expect the DLC expansion soon.

Reminds me of pre-Brawl rosters where people defended them with "If Melee could double 64's roster, then there's no reason Brawl can't quadruple Melee's."

Mad props for Bill Rizer, Bub, Muddy, and Lolo, but Tin Star takes so many points away that I think you're still in the red.

Don't like robot cowboys riding on Aluminum horses?

 

[Arcadenik]

Reminds me of pre-Brawl rosters where people defended them with "If Melee could double 64's roster, then there's no reason Brawl can't quadruple Melee's."

Mad props for Bill Rizer, Bub, Muddy, and Lolo, but Tin Star takes so many points away that I think you're still in the red.

Oh, I remember those. Dark times for everyone.

I remember I would try to guesstimate the number of slots and characters for SSB4. I used math and "patterns" to do just that.

Smash 64 (12 characters, 12 slots)
12 x 1 = 12 slots and characters

Melee (26 characters, 25 slots)
(12 x 2) + 1 = 25 slots
(12 x 2) + 2 = 26 characters

Brawl (39 characters, 35 slots)
(12 x 3) - 1 = 35 slots
(12 x 3) + 3 = 39 characters

SSB4 (51 characters, 49 slots)
(12 x 4) + 1 = 49 slots
(12 x 4) + 3 = 51 characters

SSB4 with DLC (58 characters, 56 slots)
(11 x 5) + 1 = 56 slots
NOTE: take 1 from 12 and give it to 4
(12 x 5) - 2 = 58 characters

For fun, maybe I will do that for SSB5.

(12 x 6) = 72
+ 1 = 73
+ 2 = 74
+ 3 = 75

75 seems like the ideal number for SSB5 to me.

Spoiler

1. 
2. 
3. 
4. 
5. 
6. 
7. 
8. 
9. Toad
10. 
11. 
12. Donkey Kong newcomer
13. 
14. 
15. 
16. 
17. 
18. Zelda newcomer
19. 
20. 
21. 
22. 
23. 
24. 
25. 
26. 
27. 
28. 
29. Fire Emblem Echoes protagonist
30. 
31. 
32. 
33. Waddle Dee
34. 
35. 
36. 
37. 
38. 
39. 
40. 
41. 
42. 
43. Pokémon from Sun & Moon
44. 
45. 
46. 
47. 
48. 
49. 
50. 
51. Takamaru (The Mysterious Murasame Castle)
52. Mike Jones (StarTropics)
53. 
54. 
55. Rhythm Heaven character
56. 
57. 
58. Wandering Heroes (StreetPass Mii Plaza)
59. Mallo (Pushmo)
60. Inklings (Splatoon)
61. Spring Man (Arms)
62. 
63. Bomberman
64. Simon Belmont (Castlevania)
65. 
66. 
67. 
68. Ryu Hayabusa (Ninja Gaiden)
69. 
70. Rayman
71. 
72. 
73. Shovel Knight
74. 
75. (Random)

 

[The Smash Nerd II.0.]

New Roster Time!
Veterans:
()()

/()

()()
()()
()()
()()
[?]
Newcomers:
Waluigi
Dixie Kong
King K. Rool
Tetra
Isaac
Sylux
Magnus
Bandana Waddle Dee
Krystal
Samurai Goroh
Zoroark
Decidueye
Inkling
Wonder-Red
Takamaru
Rayman
DLC:
Andy
Saki
Tails
Knuckles
Shadow
Chun-Li
Cuts:
//Ridley Sora
Did this because I can't upload my roster.

 

[AutismSpeaker]

I guess I'll give this roster thing a go...

First Row: Mario, Luigi, Peach, Toad, Rosalina & Luma, Bowser, Bowser Jr., Yoshi
Second Row: Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong, King K Rool, Wario, Link, Zelda, Lana, Ganondorf
Third Row: Samus, Ridley, Pit, Palutena, Dark Pit, Viridi, Takamaru, R.O.B.
Fourth Row: Kirby, Meta Knight, King Dedede, Magolor, Susie, Fox, Falco, Wolf
Fifth Row: Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, Charizard, Lucario, Greninja, Decidueye, Jibanyan
Sixth Row: Marth, Ike, Robin, Corrin, Celica, Ness, Lucas, Captain Falcon
Seventh Row: Mr. Game & Watch, Duck Hunt, Little Mac, Ice Climbers, Olimar, Villager, Shulk, Inkling
Eighth Row: Sonic, Dr. Eggman, Mega Man, Ryu, Pac-Man, Cloud, Snake, Rayman
Other: Mii

Not counting the Mii Fighters, I tried to make a 64-fighter roster to pay homage to the system that gave Smash its start...not that my roster will ever happen.

 

[The Smash Nerd II.0.]

I guess I'll give this roster thing a go...

First Row: Mario, Luigi, Peach, Toad, Rosalina & Luma, Bowser, Bowser Jr., Yoshi
Second Row: Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong, King K Rool, Wario, Link, Zelda, Lana, Ganondorf
Third Row: Samus, Ridley, Pit, Palutena, Dark Pit, Viridi, Takamaru, R.O.B.
Fourth Row: Kirby, Meta Knight, King Dedede, Magolor, Susie, Fox, Falco, Wolf
Fifth Row: Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, Charizard, Lucario, Greninja, Decidueye, Jibanyan
Sixth Row: Marth, Ike, Robin, Corrin, Celica, Ness, Lucas, Captain Falcon
Seventh Row: Mr. Game & Watch, Duck Hunt, Little Mac, Ice Climbers, Olimar, Villager, Shulk, Inkling
Eighth Row: Sonic, Dr. Eggman, Mega Man, Ryu, Pac-Man, Cloud, Snake, Rayman
Other: Mii

Not counting the Mii Fighters, I tried to make a 64-fighter roster to pay homage to the system that gave Smash its start...not that my roster will ever happen.

What's with you roster.

1. You cut and replace her with Lana form Hyrule Warriors.
2. You kept .
3. Jibanyan is with the Pokemon.
   
4. And you redid the Miis.

 

[Opossum]

What's with you roster.

1. You cut and replace her with Lana form Hyrule Warriors.
2. You kept .
3. Jibanyan is with the Pokemon.
   
4. And you redid the Miis.

Nothing wrong with Miis, m80.

 

[AutismSpeaker]

What's with you roster.

1. You cut and replace her with Lana form Hyrule Warriors.
2. You kept .
3. Jibanyan is with the Pokemon.
   
4. And you redid the Miis.

I admit, I should've added a LOT more clarity to my post...my roster also assumes that Dr. Mario, Lucina, Sheik, and Zero Suit Samus can be selected as alts who retain their original properties...and as for Jibanyan, I couldn't think of a better place to put that Yo-kai.

But like I said, my roster won't become a reality anytime soon.

 

[Opossum]

I admit, I should've added a LOT more clarity to my post...my roster also assumes that Dr. Mario, Lucina, Sheik, and Zero Suit Samus can be selected as alts who retain their original properties...and as for Jibanyan, I couldn't think of a better place to put that Yo-kai.

But like I said, my roster won't become a reality anytime soon.

I mean hey, your roster had Celica and Decidueye. That's a good roster in my book.

 

[AutismSpeaker]

I mean hey, your roster had Celica and Decidueye. That's a good roster in my book.

Aww, thanks!

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I mean hey, your roster had Celica and Decidueye. That's a good roster in my book.

So did mine...

 

[Opossum]

So did mine...

I know. I liked that one too.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I know. I liked that one too.

yay

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

Hey! Mine did too! (doesn't mean much, considering it had 230 altogether..)

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Hey! Mine did too! (doesn't mean much, considering it had 230 altogether..)

It's hard to criticize any additions in a 230 roster because when it's that big it's like "why the **** not?"

 

[Kirbeh]

Oh, I remember those. Dark times for everyone.

I remember I would try to guesstimate the number of slots and characters for SSB4. I used math and "patterns" to do just that.

Smash 64 (12 characters, 12 slots)
12 x 1 = 12 slots and characters

Melee (26 characters, 25 slots)
(12 x 2) + 1 = 25 slots
(12 x 2) + 2 = 26 characters

Brawl (39 characters, 35 slots)
(12 x 3) - 1 = 35 slots
(12 x 3) + 3 = 39 characters

SSB4 (51 characters, 49 slots)
(12 x 4) + 1 = 49 slots
(12 x 4) + 3 = 51 characters

SSB4 with DLC (58 characters, 56 slots)
(11 x 5) + 1 = 56 slots
NOTE: take 1 from 12 and give it to 4
(12 x 5) - 2 = 58 characters

For fun, maybe I will do that for SSB5.

(12 x 6) = 72
+ 1 = 73
+ 2 = 74
+ 3 = 75

75 seems like the ideal number for SSB5 to me.

Spoiler

1. 
2. 
3. 
4. 
5. 
6. 
7. 
8. 
9. Toad
10. 
11. 
12. Donkey Kong newcomer
13. 
14. 
15. 
16. 
17. 
18. Zelda newcomer
19. 
20. 
21. 
22. 
23. 
24. 
25. 
26. 
27. 
28. 
29. Fire Emblem Echoes protagonist
30. 
31. 
32. 
33. Waddle Dee
34. 
35. 
36. 
37. 
38. 
39. 
40. 
41. 
42. 
43. Pokémon from Sun & Moon
44. 
45. 
46. 
47. 
48. 
49. 
50. 
51. Takamaru (The Mysterious Murasame Castle)
52. Mike Jones (StarTropics)
53. 
54. 
55. Rhythm Heaven character
56. 
57. 
58. Wandering Heroes (StreetPass Mii Plaza)
59. Mallo (Pushmo)
60. Inklings (Splatoon)
61. Spring Man (Arms)
62. 
63. Bomberman
64. Simon Belmont (Castlevania)
65. 
66. 
67. 
68. Ryu Hayabusa (Ninja Gaiden)
69. 
70. Rayman
71. 
72. 
73. Shovel Knight
74. 
75. (Random)

That's certainly an interesting way of doing things. Surprisingly not too far off the mark either for just multiplying the original roster by "x" based on what number game it is.

The way I've tried to predict the roster total, is by comparing newcomer additions and cuts. And just to make note of it right of away, it's extremely flawed and I'm not making an actual prediction or claiming it to be accurate. Just putting it out there for fun.

Melee; 14 newcomers - 0 cuts = total increase of 14
Brawl; 18 newcomers - 5 cuts = total increase of 13
3DS/Wii U; 17 newcomers + 1 previously cut veteran - 6 cuts = total increase of 12

DLC is not counted as that is content developed apart from the base roster under different circumstances, and the guess is of course, supposed to be for the base roster.

Based on the above, the average would be an additional 13 characters per game. Alternatively, if you really want to count the original Smash Bros. cast, the average is 12.75 which you can pretty much round up to 13 anyway. Or maybe round it down to 12 if you want to play things as safe as possible given how massive the roster has gotten.

Average newcomer additions = 16
Average character cuts = 3 to 4, which I'd personally round down to 3 despite being 3.66~ so as to match up with the average character gain of 13. Though 4 cuts still works if you rounded the 12.75 to 12 to play it safe.

Not doing an average on previously cut returning veterans as is an outlier and the others were DLC.

Aside from that, if you want to try to predict how many of newcomers will be clones there were

1 in Super Smash Bros.

6 in Melee
1 in Brawl; Not going to get into a whole clone argument, but I'm only counting as he is the most similar to the character he was based on.and reuse a lot of assets, with the latter borrowing the most heavily, but both in totality are very different. They share similar specials, but the vast majority of their tilts, smash attacks, aerials and throws are different.

2 in 3DS/Wii U

Newcomer clone average = 2 to 3

So based on all of the above a possible prediction would look like this:

Super Smash Bros. Switch

-Roster total of 64 (Smash 64 I guess? )
-16 newcomers, including 2 to 3 clones
-3 characters from 3DS/Wii U do not return

Now as mentioned before, this doesn't account for DLC characters, so the base roster could be bigger depending on which ones return. And of course the grand total would be even larger depending on how much DLC of it's own a new Smash gets.

Also as mentioned above there are of course numerous flaws, many of which are simply on things we can never account for without intimate knowledge of development circumstances which has been vastly different for each game either way, making attempts at finding patterns mostly fruitless.

For all we know, they could more or less reboot Smash and start fresh from zero, in which case a possible roster could fall back down into the 20s or 30s

 

[Deleted member]

I tend to think 60+ characters is already gargantuan for a game like Smash and I wish the next entry focus more on gameplay, content and balance rather than adding newcomers.

Because in all honesty, unlike some of the most elitist people around these boards, I think we begin to scratch the bottom of the barrel in terms of feasible and noteworthy first-party characters now.

 

[Kirbeh]

I tend to think 60+ characters is already gargantuan for a game like Smash and I wish the next entry focus more on gameplay, content and balance rather than adding newcomers.

Because in all honesty, unlike some of the most elitist people around these boards, I think we begin to scratch the bottom of the barrel in terms of feasible and noteworthy first-party characters now.

60+ characters is massive for any fighting game really. Not to say I don't want more (because I'm one of those crazy people that still has dozens of wanted characters), but I don't at all expect the next game to add too many more newcomers. I fully expect the next game's roster to be a good deal smaller if not halved from what we have now.

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

It's hard to criticize any additions in a 230 roster because when it's that big it's like "why the **** not?"

That's why I made it, pretty much. Just so I can throw all my ideas onto one giant roster without having to leave anything out.

I tend to think 60+ characters is already gargantuan for a game like Smash and I wish the next entry focus more on gameplay, content and balance rather than adding newcomers.

Because in all honesty, unlike some of the most elitist people around these boards, I think we begin to scratch the bottom of the barrel in terms of feasible and noteworthy first-party characters now.

Nah, there's plenty of first parties they can still add. Issac, Andy, Dixie Kong, K. Rool, Paper Mario, a near infinite pool of Fire Emblem and Pokemon characters, not to mention the potential retro reps.

I DO, however, want some good single player content in the next one, so I do agree on that front.

 

[Arthur97]

Here's my version. The top five rows are my roster, the bottom part are the top 10 characters I would like to see added as well.

Tried to keep the amount of cuts to a minimum: only the 3rd party DLC characters and Lucina are not found on here.
New characters: Captain Toad, Dixie Kong, Pokémon, Infantry Unit, Isaac, Chibi-Robo, Inkling and Bomberman
Returning characters: Wolf and Ice Climbers

Now, for my explanations:

1. While I feel Toad is already an unique character worthy of inclusion, Captain Toad turns it up to eleven: especially his no-jumping schtick allows for some very interesting gameplay. I envision him as some sort of 'stance' character, who switches by filling up his backpack with Down B - causing him to lose/gain his jumping skills, but gaining/losing lots of power for his Smash Attacks in which he swings his backpack around.
2. As many others do, I feel like the Donkey Kong franchise is somewhat underrepped, having lots of characters that can be tapped into. Being included as often in various games as Dixie Kong has been - as well as gaining lots of abilities that can be transferred to Smash - I feel like she is the best choice at this point in time.
3. Due to the lack of information on both the new Smash game as well as the new Pokémon game (though there's a Direct coming our way today) I left this one open.
4. Possibly the biggest 'what' on my list: the Infantry Unit. Stemming from the Wars series, I feel like a common soldier represents the entire series (including Famicom Wars, Advance Wars, Battalion Wars) better than any single character from the series, as these characters tend to disappear after a game or two. Battalion Wars paved way for the Infantry unit by fleshing out the character more and splitting it up in various sub-units, each of which can be used for inspiration for its moveset. I can somewhat see Infantry Unit take parts of Snake's moveset, allowing those that enjoyed playing Snake a new 'home'.
5. Isaac should've been included already. He has tons of unique potential and lots of recognizability.
6. His games might not have always been the biggest success, but Chibi-Robo is still a very unique character with tons of potential: utilizing some sort of powering up/down mechanic or allowing him to tether to parts of the stage or even foes sounds pretty sweet to me. With five games under his belt, I'd say he's worthy of inclusion.
7. The biggest stars of recent Nintendo history, Inklings feel like they're almost guaranteed. Having a mechanic that allows them to (at least temporarily) paint the stage for additional utilities sounds like a blast.
8. Bomberman, to me, is the biggest 3rd party character that feels at 'home' on Nintendo consoles.Let's hope Konami gets their head back on straight.

As for the B-list at the bottom:

1. As long as Sakurai is spearheading the Smash project, I'm having a hard time seeing Bandana Dee make the cut. Too bad, as I really like the character.
2. The pre-4 leaks have gotten me interested in the Chorus Kids. A mechanic centered around timing attacks may be really fun.
3. I feel the wrath of King K. Rool fans already, but as he is pushed into the shadows more and more, Cranky Kong is my number two pick (after Dixie) for the DK universe at this point in time. I can envision a slow and frail but technical character, that turns out incredibly agile when bouncing around on his cane.
4. While Zelda is also somewhat underrepresented, I feel like the characters that currently are in Smash envelop the series pretty well. The beastly version of Ganon, however, is still lacking (apart from a reference in the Final Smash). The trident-and-magic-wielding pigman would be the best option in my book. Tingle is also a character that could represent Zelda in some way. I don't know why, but I've taken a certain liking to his inclusion in Smash.
5. While I don't feel F-Zero needs an additional fighter (especially since the series has been in stasis for a long time), Captain Falcon's archetype I find very interesting. Mach Rider may be an alternative to the flashy powerhouse, with normals that differ from Captain's as much as Wolf's did to Fox's and specials that are more in line with his own game.
6. Paper Mario is interesting: he has tons of games and tons of potential, but his abilities change so wildly from game to game that I'm uncertain which set he should use should he be included. I also rank him somewhat lower than Captain Toad, causing him to fall to this list.
7. Hailing from another oft-forgotten series, Saki's sword/gun-thing would allow for a moveset we have yet to see.
8. Finally, Spring Man. It's just to soon for an ARMS character, I'd say. Long ranged, disjointed punches would allow for a new attack pattern.

Wew. Thoughts?

You kept Dark Pit, but cut Lucina...

 

[TheLastJinjo]

There's no reason Toad can't use Captain Toad's abilities without just being Toad. Having him be Captain Toad just makes him a less iconic character and his inclusion becomes more strange.

 

[PiChuChu]

If we did get a reboot, I wouldn't expect any less than 30 characters at launch, otherwise Nintendo would receive massive backlash (ala SFV). I think we could get possibly get 45 characters, assuming some characters like Mario, Luigi, etc. wouldn't need massive changing (but Zelda, Ganondorf, etc. would).

Spoiler: 45 Character Roster

(Paper Mario)(King K. Rool)

(Waddle Dee)(Decidueye)
(Isaac)(Inkling) (Ribbon Girl)

Paper Mario: recognizable, and Paper Mario is a popular (at least, it was...) long-running series
King K. Rool: popular enough to get a Mii costume in Sm4sh, he might just make it into the next installment
Waddle Dee: 4th main hero of the Kirby series, and Kirby is a popular enough series to justify a 4th character
Decidueye: a popular new Pokemon representing Generation 7; his appearance in Pokken Tournament DX makes me think he's got a fair shot at the next Smash
Isaac: unlikely, but this is partly a dream roster
Inkling/Ribbon Girl: Do I need to explain?

Spoiler: cuts

Clones: (made into alt. costumes)
Sm4sh veterans: (kinda lacking in the 'Nintendo All-Star' department)
Sm4sh newcomers: (see above ^)
Miis: (poorly executed imo)
Third-Party characters: (no room for third-parties in a reboot)

 

[FunAtParties]

I tend to think 60+ characters is already gargantuan for a game like Smash and I wish the next entry focus more on gameplay, content and balance rather than adding newcomers.

Because in all honesty, unlike some of the most elitist people around these boards, I think we begin to scratch the bottom of the barrel in terms of feasible and noteworthy first-party characters now.

I agree somewhat. A lot of the characters people want now would seem like a huge stretch any other time, but there are some important characters left out there, and quite a few not so important characters currently on the roster, so I wouldn't mind seeing the roster refined even if that saw the roster shrinking in size at the end of the day.

 

[PeridotGX]

Here's my attempt at a mostly realistic Smash 5 roster. Bold means new, * means unlockable. I also added some changes to existing characters.

Spoiler: Roster

Mario Series:

1:Mario (Alt Costume for Dr.Mario)
2:Luigi
3: Peach (New Neutral-B that references Super Princess Peach, Daisy Alt)
4:Bowser (Alt Costume for Dry Bowser)
5:Bowser.Jr* (The Koopalings return)
6: Rosalina (Maybe a new Side-B)
7: Captian Toad (Can barely jump and is somewhat slow, but is rather powerful. May be replaced by a more equal regular Toad if we don't get another game to keep Captian Toad relevant. Alt for Captian Toadette.

DK:
8: Donkey Kong
9: Diddy Kong
10: Either K.Rool or Dixie* (Don't care either way. Probably Dixie.)

Wario:

11: Wario (Alt for Mario Style.)

Yoshi:
12: Yoshi (Final Smash Changed to the Eggdozer from New Island, Orange, White, and Yarn Yoshi as alts)
13: Kamek* (Only other Yoshi rep I could see coming. Largely projectile-based, with good recovery.

Zelda:

14: Link (Redesigned as BoTW style, Remote Bomb as new Down-B.)
15: Zelda (Redesigned as BOTW style)
16: Sheik* (Reverted to OoT style, due to representing that game)
17: Ganondorf* (Overhauled to have moves from Zelda. Demise as alt.)
18: Toon Link* (Young Link alt)

Kirby:

19: Kirby (Final Smash changed to the Hypernova from Triple Deluxe)
20: Dedede (Masked Dedede alt)
21: Meta Knight*
22: Bandana Dee ( Slightly heavier and only has 1 midair jump compared to regular Kirby. Attacks have a long range. His Final Smash is a modified version of Dedede's from SSBB.

Metroid:

23: Samus
24: ZSS*

Star Fox:

25:Fox
26: Falco*
27: Wolf*

Pokémon:

28: Pikachu (Raichu alt)
29: Charizard
30: Jigglypuff*(Igglybuff alt)
31: Mewtwo*
32: Lucario
33:Greninja*
34: Decidueye (Highly Projectile based, a little slow and has large (and 4) Jumps. If Gen 8 releases prior to Smash 5, this will be a Gen 8 Pokémon instead)
35: Grovyle* (Represenitive of the Spinoffs, mostly PMD. Rather fast, but a little bit weak on offence. Final Smash stops/slows time for everything exept for you. The only character on the list I put on via bias.)

Earthbound:

36: Ness* (Ninten alt)
37: Lucas (Claus Alt, PK Starstorm acts like how it did in Brawl.)

F-Zero:

38: Captian Falcon
39: Blood Falcon* (Has Ganondorf's old moveset)

Fire Emblem:

40: Marth (Lucina alt)
41: Ike
42: Roy*
43:Robin
44:Corrin*
45: Whoever the new FE Character is.

Kid Icarus:

47: Pit
48: Palutena*
49: Dark Pit* ("Why remove Dr.Mario and Lucina and leave Dark Pit?" You might say. My answer is he can be de-cloned easier than the other 2. Give him other things from Uprising or give him Pit's Stuff from Brawl, and he's now in Wolf territory. Plus, Sakurai probably wouldn't hinder his own series.)

Retro Characters:

50: Ice Climbers
51: Mr Game-And-Watch*
52: R.O.B*
53: Duck Hunt*
54: Takamaru (I don't know any better retros, and he's popular. )

Others:

55: Olimar (Alph alt)
56: Villager
57: Wii Fit Trainer*
58: Little Mac
59: Miis*
60: Wonder-Red (Never Played Wonderful 101, he just looks interesting and loads of people want him.)
61: Issac* (See Wonder-Red)
62: Inkling ( I don't know how to describe them, they're just great additions
63: Spring Man (See Inkling)
64:Shulk

3rd Party

65: Sonic
66: Mega Man
67: Pac-Man
68: Bayonetta*
69: Ryu*
69: Shovel Knight* (See Inkling)
The only 100% cut was Cloud. 70 characters on this list, 14 of them new.

Let me know if it's good, I made mistakes in it, or it's absolute garbage.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Here's my attempt at a mostly realistic Smash 5 roster. Bold means new, * means unlockable. I also added some changes to existing characters.

Spoiler: Roster

Mario Series:

1:Mario (Alt Costume for Dr.Mario)
2:Luigi
3: Peach (New Neutral-B that references Super Princess Peach, Daisy Alt)
4:Bowser (Alt Costume for Dry Bowser)
5:Bowser.Jr* (The Koopalings return)
6: Rosalina (Maybe a new Side-B)
7: Captian Toad (Can barely jump and is somewhat slow, but is rather powerful. May be replaced by a more equal regular Toad if we don't get another game to keep Captian Toad relevant. Alt for Captian Toadette.

DK:
8: Donkey Kong
9: Diddy Kong
10: Either K.Rool or Dixie* (Don't care either way. Probably Dixie.)

Wario:

11: Wario (Alt for Mario Style.)

Yoshi:
12: Yoshi (Final Smash Changed to the Eggdozer from New Island, Orange, White, and Yarn Yoshi as alts)
13: Kamek* (Only other Yoshi rep I could see coming. Largely projectile-based, with good recovery.

Zelda:

14: Link (Redesigned as BoTW style, Remote Bomb as new Down-B.)
15: Zelda (Redesigned as BOTW style)
16: Sheik* (Reverted to OoT style, due to representing that game)
17: Ganondorf* (Overhauled to have moves from Zelda. Demise as alt.)
18: Toon Link* (Young Link alt)

Kirby:

19: Kirby (Final Smash changed to the Hypernova from Triple Deluxe)
20: Dedede (Masked Dedede alt)
21: Meta Knight*
22: Bandana Dee ( Slightly heavier and only has 1 midair jump compared to regular Kirby. Attacks have a long range. His Final Smash is a modified version of Dedede's from SSBB.

Metroid:

23: Samus
24: ZSS*

Star Fox:

25:Fox
26: Falco*
27: Wolf*

Pokémon:

28: Pikachu (Raichu alt)
29: Charizard
30: Jigglypuff*(Igglybuff alt)
31: Mewtwo*
32: Lucario
33:Greninja*
34: Decidueye (Highly Projectile based, a little slow and has large (and 4) Jumps. If Gen 8 releases prior to Smash 5, this will be a Gen 8 Pokémon instead)
35: Grovyle* (Represenitive of the Spinoffs, mostly PMD. Rather fast, but a little bit weak on offence. Final Smash stops/slows time for everything exept for you. The only character on the list I put on via bias.)

Earthbound:

36: Ness* (Ninten alt)
37: Lucas (Claus Alt, PK Starstorm acts like how it did in Brawl.)

F-Zero:

38: Captian Falcon
39: Blood Falcon* (Has Ganondorf's old moveset)

Fire Emblem:

40: Marth (Lucina alt)
41: Ike
42: Roy*
43:Robin
44:Corrin*
45: Whoever the new FE Character is.

Kid Icarus:

47: Pit
48: Palutena*
49: Dark Pit* ("Why remove Dr.Mario and Lucina and leave Dark Pit?" You might say. My answer is he can be de-cloned easier than the other 2. Give him other things from Uprising or give him Pit's Stuff from Brawl, and he's now in Wolf territory. Plus, Sakurai probably wouldn't hinder his own series.)

Retro Characters:

50: Ice Climbers
51: Mr Game-And-Watch*
52: R.O.B*
53: Duck Hunt*
54: Takamaru (I don't know any better retros, and he's popular. )

Others:

55: Olimar (Alph alt)
56: Villager
57: Wii Fit Trainer*
58: Little Mac
59: Miis*
60: Wonder-Red (Never Played Wonderful 101, he just looks interesting and loads of people want him.)
61: Issac* (See Wonder-Red)
62: Inkling ( I don't know how to describe them, they're just great additions
63: Spring Man (See Inkling)
64:Shulk

3rd Party

65: Sonic
66: Mega Man
67: Pac-Man
68: Bayonetta*
69: Ryu*
69: Shovel Knight* (See Inkling)
The only 100% cut was Cloud. 70 characters on this list, 14 of them new.

Let me know if it's good, I made mistakes in it, or it's absolute garbage.

Sorry, if I only comment on the negative inclusions, but that's just my nature cuz I'm a guy who can only come up with so many ways to say "Yeah, I agree."

Now then,

Can someone please explain this Captain Toad crap to me? Why are we sacrificing a character's more iconic identity in favor of an excuse to make them more unique? Captain Toad is Toad so there's no reason Toad can't have Captain Toad's abilities and still just be Toad. The only other excuse I can think of why people use Captain Toad is that they have to admit that Toad himself is not really a character compared to other past inclusions. I'm not going to get into that part, but if you're going to add Toad, it needs to be THE Toad. Captain Toad doesn't qualify to be in Smash because he had his own game.

I think you did the same thing with Blood Falcon. Did you add him because that's an F-Zero character worth including, or so you'd have an excuse to give Ganondorf a new move set. In my opinion Samurai Goroh is a deserved and overdue addition to Smash (though understandably absent because of priority under more popular characters).

I don't know how you could add another F-Zero character until you add Samurai Goroh. Also not sure why you favored Shovel Knight over Final Fantasy.

Here's something I take MAJOR issue with. I'm so sick and tired of this notion that characters who are clones don't matter and all characters should be decloned.

You're vision of Dark Pit does not stay true to his original appearance. You can't just go "All right, give him new weapons. Now he's Wolf!"

Dark Pit is similar to Pit for a reason. How would you improve his Smash attacks when both characters use the exact same weapon? How do you change their physical attributes when they are 100% identical? Your drastically changed proposal for Dark Pit makes him cease to be Dark Pit.

You do realize that Dr. Mario is a popular persona of Mario that people like and has good reason to be in the game. You can't just act like he doesn't matter and why even go to the trouble of removing him (AGAIN) when it requires no effort to include him?

Also I just wanna say I'm open to Kamek so long as you completely overhaul is appearance so he is no longer a generic Magikoopa.

 

[FunAtParties]

Sorry, if I only comment on the negative inclusions, but that's just my nature cuz I'm a guy who can only come up with so many ways to say "Yeah, I agree."

Now then,

Can someone please explain this Captain Toad crap to me? Why are we sacrificing a character's more iconic identity in favor of an excuse to make them more unique? Captain Toad is Toad so there's no reason Toad can't have Captain Toad's abilities and still just be Toad. The only other excuse I can think of why people use Captain Toad is that they have to admit that Toad himself is not really a character compared to other past inclusions. I'm not going to get into that part, but if you're going to add Toad, it needs to be THE Toad. Captain Toad doesn't qualify to be in Smash because he had his own game.

I think you did the same thing with Blood Falcon. Did you add him because that's an F-Zero character worth including, or so you'd have an excuse to give Ganondorf a new move set. In my opinion Samurai Goroh is a deserved and overdue addition to Smash (though understandably absent because of priority under more popular characters).

I don't know how you could add another F-Zero character until you add Samurai Goroh. Also not sure why you favored Shovel Knight over Final Fantasy.

Here's something I take MAJOR issue with. I'm so sick and tired of this notion that characters who are clones don't matter and all characters should be decloned.

You're vision of Dark Pit does not stay true to his original appearance. You can't just go "All right, give him new weapons. Now he's Wolf!"

Dark Pit is similar to Pit for a reason. How would you improve his Smash attacks when both characters use the exact same weapon? How do you change their physical attributes when they are 100% identical? Your drastically changed proposal for Dark Pit makes him cease to be Dark Pit.

You do realize that Dr. Mario is a popular persona of Mario that people like and has good reason to be in the game. You can't just act like he doesn't matter and why even go to the trouble of removing him (AGAIN) when it requires no effort to include him?

Also I just wanna say I'm open to Kamek so long as you completely overhaul is appearance so he is no longer a generic Magikoopa.

I don't get your mindset on Toad. How does Captain Toad getting his own game make him unqualified in any way?

The whole Dr.Mario thing is debatable too. He does have his fans, and he also has a fair share of people that don't like him at all. Making him a Mario costume is a decent enough solution to that problem and takes even less effort than making him a character of his own.

 

[Deleted member]

The whole Dr.Mario thing is debatable too. He does have his fans, and he also has a fair share of people that don't like him at all. Making him a Mario costume is a decent enough solution to that problem and takes even less effort than making him a character of his own.

People keep suggesting to make Doc an alt. It was a stupid idea back in 2001, it was a stupid idea a couple years ago, it's stupid idea now.

If people can't bear to have Dr. Mario on the CSS when he's basically a freebie, then it's better to just get rid of him.
I say this as someone who's mained Doc in Melee and uses him infrequently in Wii U, but I would much rather no Doc at all than him being a costume where he has absolutely no differences from Mario whatsoever if it means people stop ******** about him.

Being a costume is no ****ing compromise in the slightest.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

People keep suggesting to make Doc an alt. It was a stupid idea back in 2001, it was a stupid idea a couple years ago, it's stupid idea now.

If people can't bear to have Dr. Mario on the CSS when he's basically a freebie, then it's better to just get rid of him.
I say this as someone who's mained Doc in Melee and uses him infrequently in Wii U, but I would much rather no Doc at all than him being a costume where he has absolutely no differences from Mario whatsoever if it means people stop ******** about him.

Being a costume is no ****ing compromise in the slightest.

Being a costume that allows differences is fine, however. Problem is, Sakurai won't do it. I don't see it as an issue, as long as they play uniquely. Even if it's as mediocre as the Pit/Dark Pit differences, it's still fun and ultimately changes things up.

But yeah, a costume is absolute crap when his first time playable was as a character that played overall differently, despite the same animations. It's just as bad as asking Ganondorf to be a Falcon costume, or Luigi being a Mario costume in Smash 64. Being a clone is not an issue, and the CSS is hardly bloated at all. It's a freebie, as you said. Hell, the only real problem with Smash 4's roster CSS is that it feels like things are vastly out of place. Albeit, yes, there was reasoning to it and it's not some random placement, but it's still odd(to some).

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I don't get your mindset on Toad. How does Captain Toad getting his own game make him unqualified in any way?

I didn't say he was unqualified. I said that having his own game doesn't qualify him.

The whole Dr.Mario thing is debatable too. He does have his fans, and he also has a fair share of people that don't like him at all. Making him a Mario costume is a decent enough solution to that problem and takes even less effort than making him a character of his own.

That's just bull **** on so many levels. Let's list them.

1. When a character has fans, the people who dislike that character are IRRELEVANT. Sakurai doesn't remove characters that people like because some people don't. That's not how it works. Nobody cares that you or however many people don't like Dr. Mario because that has no effect on his inclusion. Sakurai wants Dr. Mario in the game and so do his fans, so why would he listen to the people who don't want him? People are butthurt about Bayonetta's inclusion, but that doesn't matter because people like the game and the character.
2. Making Dr. Mario a costume is an injustice to the character and Sakurai has already made that clear. He already commented on how it would be weird for Dr. Mario to use fireballs and what not, ESPECIALLY after he has already appeared as a separate character. Taking a separate character and making them a costume is an offensive insult to the people who use that character.
3. The Dr. Mario thing is NOT debatable. It has no affect on his inclusion.
   
   If you don't like a character because you have some stupid notion that being similar is bad, then don't use them. Don't make the fans suffer because you don't understand how game development works.

 

[Luminario]

Here's something I take MAJOR issue with. I'm so sick and tired of this notion that characters who are clones don't matter and all characters should be decloned.

You're vision of Dark Pit does not stay true to his original appearance. You can't just go "All right, give him new weapons. Now he's Wolf!"

Dark Pit is similar to Pit for a reason. How would you improve his Smash attacks when both characters use the exact same weapon? How do you change their physical attributes when they are 100% identical? Your drastically changed proposal for Dark Pit makes him cease to be Dark Pit.

But Dark Pit doesn't have to use the same weapons at all. In Uprising he uses different weapons when you fight him in Story Mode and when you play as him in Together Mode.
I don't think it's a good idea to de-clone him anyway though. The clones should always be dancing between being alts and being clones to not take away from other fighters.

That's just bull **** on so many levels. Let's list them.

1. When a character has fans, the people who dislike that character are IRRELEVANT. Sakurai doesn't remove characters that people like because some people don't. That's not how it works. Nobody cares that you or however many people don't like Dr. Mario because that has no effect on his inclusion. Sakurai wants Dr. Mario in the game and so do his fans, so why would he listen to the people who don't want him? People are butthurt about Bayonetta's inclusion, but that doesn't matter because people like the game and the character.
2. Making Dr. Mario a costume is an injustice to the character and Sakurai has already made that clear. He already commented on how it would be weird for Dr. Mario to use fireballs and what not, ESPECIALLY after he has already appeared as a separate character. Taking a separate character and making them a costume is an offensive insult to the people who use that character.
3. The Dr. Mario thing is NOT debatable. It has no affect on his inclusion.

You know that Dr Mario was planned as an alt right? If they didn't have as much time at the end then we'd be seeing him as an alt of Mario.

 

[FunAtParties]

I didn't say he was unqualified. I said that having his own game doesn't qualify him.


That's just bull **** on so many levels. Let's list them.

1. When a character has fans, the people who dislike that character are IRRELEVANT. Sakurai doesn't remove characters that people like because some people don't. That's not how it works. Nobody cares that you or however many people don't like Dr. Mario because that has no effect on his inclusion. Sakurai wants Dr. Mario in the game and so do his fans, so why would he listen to the people who don't want him? People are butthurt about Bayonetta's inclusion, but that doesn't matter because people like the game and the character.
2. Making Dr. Mario a costume is an injustice to the character and Sakurai has already made that clear. He already commented on how it would be weird for Dr. Mario to use fireballs and what not, ESPECIALLY after he has already appeared as a separate character. Taking a separate character and making them a costume is an offensive insult to the people who use that character.
3. The Dr. Mario thing is NOT debatable. It has no affect on his inclusion.
   
   If you don't like a character because you have some stupid notion that being similar is bad, then don't use them. Don't make the fans suffer because of you don't understand how game development works.

People keep suggesting to make Doc an alt. It was a stupid idea back in 2001, it was a stupid idea a couple years ago, it's stupid idea now.

If people can't bear to have Dr. Mario on the CSS when he's basically a freebie, then it's better to just get rid of him.
I say this as someone who's mained Doc in Melee and uses him infrequently in Wii U, but I would much rather no Doc at all than him being a costume where he has absolutely no differences from Mario whatsoever if it means people stop ******** about him.

Being a costume is no ****ing compromise in the slightest.

So easily upset.

You guys act like it's not a compromise because you're only thinking from your mindset. A lot of people don't want the character 100 yards within the next game at all. I'd say it better than nothing, but feel however you feel, I'd rather have him gone completely.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Compromising means attempting to please fans of the actual characters. Costumes are not compromises. They're basically stripping a character they played as of their uniqueness, making them lame colors that completely destroy their playstyle. It's hard enough when a character's playstyle is changed up(see: Bowser and Pit in Smash 4 from Brawl). But seeing their favorite downgraded completely to something that is pointless to even do when it's even easier to port them over with a small set of differences(like how long it took to make the clones, very little time, was easy, and basically free and isn't even counted towards the game's key development cycle. You aren't paying for the clones. As Sakurai said, they're freebies that you just happened to get).

The character being entirely gone is far better than a costume because at least they didn't strip the character of what made them worth playing as. Yes, I'll gladly have Dr. Mario gone over being a costume. I enjoy playing as the Doc with his unique differences, weighing more, hitting hard, the Megavitamins, etc. A lame alt that doesn't do it justice nor do the fans of the character justice in any possible way? Yeah, no. Better to cut them. That's way more pleasing since at the very least they don't ruin the character for the fans, which is why Dr. Mario got changed from an alt to a full clone, notably.

Sakurai made the decision that pleased the fans, which matter far more to him(and to many) than detractors. The fact he gave fans free dessert because he had some extra time is nice. The only other good option was to not bother with those alts. But that also means losing the Koopalings and Alph. Which sounds even worse(and at least those characters have far better reasons to be alts at this point). The only clone that could've worked as an alt was Lucina due to zero different moves. Still much more interesting to play at this way, however. Dr. Mario has blatant differences as shown in Melee and works better as a clone. He wouldn't use FLUDD. Dark Pit is the same way. The justifications for being their own slot is solely because Sakurai doesn't do "Alts with differences". Either way, he's very insistent they aren't pointless costumes.

Now as for Alph, keep in mind he has no differences from Olimar in the actual game series. Meaning that the only differences can be the Pikmin, really. However, trying to make the Rock Pikmin unique with barely any time wasn't feasible. The fact he fits far better as an alt than the clones does help too. Like, the worst thing is he's slightly off-size from Olimar. The Koopalings were more freebies that worked due to the Koopa Clown Car. If it wasn't for that, they wouldn't be in. That's also too many damn clones to make in a short time. They also wouldn't be all that unique while riding in the vehicle, so it works out very well(and being they could easily ride in it while using the same moves due to how the vehicle is designed, they work fine as alts overall).

 

[A Distant Demon]

Once again, this thread manages to step so far away from actual roster discussion.


Im starting to think this thread should only allow posts of rosters and nothing else since this thread can clearly not stay on topic here.

 

[Arthur97]

Being a costume that allows differences is fine, however. Problem is, Sakurai won't do it. I don't see it as an issue, as long as they play uniquely. Even if it's as mediocre as the Pit/Dark Pit differences, it's still fun and ultimately changes things up.

But yeah, a costume is absolute crap when his first time playable was as a character that played overall differently, despite the same animations. It's just as bad as asking Ganondorf to be a Falcon costume, or Luigi being a Mario costume in Smash 64. Being a clone is not an issue, and the CSS is hardly bloated at all. It's a freebie, as you said. Hell, the only real problem with Smash 4's roster CSS is that it feels like things are vastly out of place. Albeit, yes, there was reasoning to it and it's not some random placement, but it's still odd(to some).

Roster placement does feel kind of lazy on the bottom row. The clones are not with their series, nor are the DLC characters. Modders can fix that, but they couldn't adjust the roster for DLC?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Roster placement does feel kind of lazy on the bottom row. The clones are not with their series, nor are the DLC characters. Modders can fix that, but they couldn't adjust the roster for DLC?

To be fair, that's actually logical. They have the base roster, then the clones, then the 3rd parties, then the Miis, then the DLC in release order. Only issue is Yoshi's placement is between two sets of Mario characters. There's some consistency outside of Yoshi. I do agree with you, though.

Bleh, need to load up my roster maker again. I always followed the consistency of "series need to be next to each other", whether it's a horizontal or vertical line.

 

[FunAtParties]

Compromising means attempting to please fans of the actual characters. Costumes are not compromises. They're basically stripping a character they played as of their uniqueness, making them lame colors that completely destroy their playstyle. It's hard enough when a character's playstyle is changed up(see: Bowser and Pit in Smash 4 from Brawl). But seeing their favorite downgraded completely to something that is pointless to even do when it's even easier to port them over with a small set of differences(like how long it took to make the clones, very little time, was easy, and basically free and isn't even counted towards the game's key development cycle. You aren't paying for the clones. As Sakurai said, they're freebies that you just happened to get).

The character being entirely gone is far better than a costume because at least they didn't strip the character of what made them worth playing as. Yes, I'll gladly have Dr. Mario gone over being a costume. I enjoy playing as the Doc with his unique differences, weighing more, hitting hard, the Megavitamins, etc. A lame alt that doesn't do it justice nor do the fans of the character justice in any possible way? Yeah, no. Better to cut them. That's way more pleasing since at the very least they don't ruin the character for the fans, which is why Dr. Mario got changed from an alt to a full clone, notably.

Sakurai made the decision that pleased the fans, which matter far more to him(and to many) than detractors. The fact he gave fans free dessert because he had some extra time is nice. The only other good option was to not bother with those alts. But that also means losing the Koopalings and Alph. Which sounds even worse(and at least those characters have far better reasons to be alts at this point). The only clone that could've worked as an alt was Lucina due to zero different moves. Still much more interesting to play at this way, however. Dr. Mario has blatant differences as shown in Melee and works better as a clone. He wouldn't use FLUDD. Dark Pit is the same way. The justifications for being their own slot is solely because Sakurai doesn't do "Alts with differences". Either way, he's very insistent they aren't pointless costumes.

Now as for Alph, keep in mind he has no differences from Olimar in the actual game series. Meaning that the only differences can be the Pikmin, really. However, trying to make the Rock Pikmin unique with barely any time wasn't feasible. The fact he fits far better as an alt than the clones does help too. Like, the worst thing is he's slightly off-size from Olimar. The Koopalings were more freebies that worked due to the Koopa Clown Car. If it wasn't for that, they wouldn't be in. That's also too many damn clones to make in a short time. They also wouldn't be all that unique while riding in the vehicle, so it works out very well(and being they could easily ride in it while using the same moves due to how the vehicle is designed, they work fine as alts overall).

Uniqueness

Doctor Mario

Pick one.

Pills, tornado, and +7 attributes, don't exactly scream unique. Yeah theyre different, just like Mario wearing green is different, but they aren't exactly adding any significant experience to the game.

Pm showed they can work together, you all just pretend that's not good enough for your own personal biases, just like I don't want him as a playable character because of mine.

Seeing that this discussion is being shut down, I'm willing to move the topic to the veterans thread if you all want.

 

[A Distant Demon]

When I make a point about something, it usually is best to pay attention.



Locking this thread for a little bit. Maybe some time will make people realize this isnt the general thread.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Let's try this again

remember. Roster thread, not a general thread

 

[The Smash Nerd II.0.]

Nothing wrong with Miis, m80.

OK. I agree

 

[UrbanChampionRising]

Hey there, folks. I thought I'd post my idea for an ideal roster for Smash 5. It is 68 characters in the main roster, with 8 additional as DLC.

Main roster:
Mario
Luigi
Peach
Bowser
Rosalina and Luma
Bowser Jr.
Paper Mario
Yoshi
Kamek
Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong
King K. Rool
Link
Zelda
Sheik
Ganondorf
Toon Link
Tingle
Samus
Zero Suit Samus
Kirby
Meta Knight
King Dedede
Bandana Dee
Fox
Wolf
Krystal
Pikachu
Jigglypuff
Charizard
Mewtwo
Lucario
Greninja
Decidueye
Captain Falcon
Ness
Lucas
Porky Minch
Marth
Robin
Hector
Anna
Cordelia
Pit
Palutena
Medusa
Wario
Mona
Olimar
Villager
Isabelle
Little Mac
Mii Warrior
Wii Fit Trainer
Shulk
Rhythm Girl
Inkling
Andy
Ice Climbers
Mr. Game and Watch
R.O.B.
Duck Hunt
Takamaru
Sonic
Mega Man
Pac-Man
Bomberman
Shantae

DLC:
Cranky Kong
Sylux
Samurai Goroh
Isaac
Lip
Phoenix Wright
Simon Belmont
Jack Frost