Early Smash 5 Fan-Made Rosters (Ideal or Prediction)

[Ura]

To be fair, the song thing might be because DLC was made on a budget. Street Fighter only got two songs as well. Yeah, it was three versions of each, but still.

That's a possibility but there could have been more done for Cloud's inclusion then what they did. I don't imagine it being hard to slap in some extra tracks in the game unless SE was making Nintendo pay for each individual track in the game.

Either way, I don't see Cloud having priority over the likes of and even given that the Ballot winner is most likely not getting cut. He also has to contend with the new third party characters of the next Smash Bros game which I expect will be like 2 or 3 new characters.

 

[Depressed Gengar]

Have we ever really found what made Cloud so difficult to get into Smash? Last I checked there was never a proper reason given.

 

[Ura]

Have we ever really found what made Cloud so difficult to get into Smash? Last I checked there was never a proper reason given.

I guess it has to do with Square Enix being super picky about how they want they're character being portrayed or something.

Or SE being SE like I said before.

 

[N3ON]

I can see why Cloud would be considered the most likely to get cut. SE are an overprotective, finicky lot. And they've had a rather turbulent relationship with Nintendo. On the other hand though, Cloud is probably, apart from maybe Mewtwo, the best selling DLC. I believe, with Smash being a product first and foremost, that doesn't mean nothing. And, they've already reached a consensus on how to implement Cloud in Smash; the main hurdle is crossed, the bridge has already been built. So given those two factors, I could see Cloud being given priority over some of the other third-parties, at least the DLC ones. Even should they be financially and perhaps legally easier to implement.

That said, I could see him getting the axe. But, I could honestly see any third-party getting the axe, minus Sonic and Mega Man, who imo are the only two safe ones. Not that I think all the others will, just that I believe they are more in flux going forward.

No Bayonetta, no Buyonetta.

What if Bayonetta is a one-and-done kinda deal in Smash?

 

[Holder of the Heel]

What if Bayonetta is a one-and-done kinda deal in Smash?

Why would she be? Number one demand in Europe, top 5 in US, highest overall worldwide. And there's always the possibility of the series continuing onto the Switch, which I'd consider quite likely--so she'd be digging her heels deeper into Nintendo.

Hypothetically yeah I would buy the next Smash without her, but damn would that be disappointing. I really enjoy playing her, and I didn't even do all of the wild off-screen KO combos because I'm terrible.

 

[Deleted member]

But, I could honestly see any third-party getting the axe, minus Sonic and Mega Man, who imo are the only two safe ones.

What makes Mega Man safe but not Ryu, despite both being Capcom properties?
Just curious.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Honestly, I think all the 3rd Parties we have right now have more reason to stay than go.

Granted I said that for Snake but....

 

[Victory.IsMyDestinySSB4]

My early Smash 5 roster. Will elaborate on the choices that I made here later but if you guys have any questions about this roster feel free to ask me.

No Kirby newcomer? Not complaining about your opinion or anything, but 2 games were made in like 18 months.

 

[Ura]

No Kirby newcomer? Not complaining about your opinion or anything, but 2 games were made in like 18 months.

Pretty sure that roster was done 10 months ago lol. I've made many rosters since then.

I'd like Bandana Dee in Smash but i'm not really expecting him TBH.

 

[Kevkowich]

Suda51 wants Travis Touchdown in the next Smash

 

[Megadoomer]

Suda51 wants Travis Touchdown in the next Smash

Personally, I'd love to see that happen. Between his beam katana (or fluorescent lightbulb on a stick), wrestling moves, and ability to turn into a tiger, he seems like he'd be a lot of fun to play as.

 

[Ura]

Every developer wants their character in Smash Bros.

You're much better off asking which devs don't want to see their characters in Smash.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I for one welcome our new Suda 51 overlords.

 

[Deleted member]

Here's my first one, to the date of August the 28th, 2016:

Spoiler

Spoiler

- 12 completely unique newcomers with Paper Mario, K. Rool, Takamaru, Sylux, Isaac, a new Pokémon from the 7th generation onward, Chibi-Robo, Elma, Inkling, Lloyd, Bomberman and Geno, plus Dixie and Black Shadow added as semi-clones of Diddy and Falcon respectively.

- Ganondorf gets a more distinguished moveset from Falcon to the point of being an all new character.

- The Ice Climbers and Wolf make their comeback.

- Konami, after having found the path of reason, allow Snake to come back and brings Bomberman as a newcomer as well.

- Each of the third-party companies (SEGA, Namco-Bandai, Konami, Capcom and Square-Enix) are now repped with 2 characters from 2 of their different franchises instead of only one.

- Lucina is the only one from Smash 4's clone trinity to get the "Falco treatment", and now uses moves involving spears, the other two are either relegated as alts or gone.

- 20 characters have to be unlocked: Jr., Rosalina, Paper Mario, King K. Rool, Mr. Game & Watch, Duck Hunt, R.O.B., Ganondorf, Toon Link, Lucas, Black Shadow, Roy, Lucina, Falco, Wolf, Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, Greninja, Chibi-Robo, Wii Fit Trainer.

Today I decided to reskin this roster with one particular condition: to fill the black space the current Smash Wii U roster has with all DLC characters, which lead to 13 new cases:

Spoiler: Roster

Spoiler: Explanations

- Sylux and Black Shadow are removed, as this roster has 2 cases less, and are honestly the 2 most unlikely 1st-party characters of the previous roster.

- The "FE rep" case is the iffiest one, as it matches to either:
• staying and getting the treatment.
• Or a FE newcomer who comes from a new FE or an old one, like Lyn, and relegates as a like and on my previous roster.

- "G7+ Pokémon" from my previous roster has become Decidueye.

- Elma is replaced by "Xenoblade rep", which likely leads to the Xenoblade 2 protagonist, presumably called Rex.

- The number of unlockable characters went from 20 to 18: Bowser Jr., Rosalina, Paper Mario, King K. Rool, Mr. Game & Watch, Duck Hunt, R.O.B., Ganondorf, Toon Link, Lucas, Black Shadow, Roy, Lucina, Falco, Wolf, Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, Greninja, Chibi-Robo, Wii Fit Trainer.

 

[N3ON]

Why would she be? Number one demand in Europe, top 5 in US, highest overall worldwide. And there's always the possibility of the series continuing onto the Switch, which I'd consider quite likely--so she'd be digging her heels deeper into Nintendo.

Hypothetically yeah I would buy the next Smash without her, but damn would that be disappointing. I really enjoy playing her, and I didn't even do all of the wild off-screen KO combos because I'm terrible.

I'm not singling out any specific third-party I believe won't return in the future, because I really couldn't begin to guess, but I just think, given the volume of the roster, the amount of new third-parties that were added, the amount that may be added next time, the fact that most of the third-parties were added as optional DLC, and the fact that unexpected and unwanted cuts do happen going forward, not all of the third-parties will be priority enough to acquire again. I don't think many of these third-parties are treated as integral to the roster, at least not over many of the Nintendo ones that made it on the initial roster, or future newcomers. Ofc this is just me postulating.

Ideally we'd get them all back, and if Sakurai could snap his fingers and have them all included I suspect he would, but I just think his priorities will be elsewhere from assuring their return. Some, sure. Most, maybe. All? Imo, unlikely.

Also, a little beside the point, but despite Bayo's placement on the poll I do suspect Cloud and Ryu sold better. I don't know how much that ultimately will matter in the future, but... on the other hand... I suspect she's easier and cheaper to obtain. Though if we somehow get a Bayo 3 in the same vein as Bayo 2, who knows, she might even make it onto the initial roster next time around.

What makes Mega Man safe but not Ryu, despite both being Capcom properties?
Just curious.

Well from a legal standpoint they're both probably in the same boat where one isn't easier to acquire than the other, at least not to any great extent. But that's really the only area in which they are equal from the Smash perspective. Because I don't believe Capcom would prove a deciding factor (past acquisition), I'm really not looking at it from a company perspective, just a character one. Mega Man is and was the more desired character and the one that was made the priority for initial inclusion. Imo he's more akin to Sonic, just to a lesser degree. So I think in the future he'd receive higher priority when debating which characters to bring back. As I said above, I think to Sakurai, Mega Man is more integral going forward than Ryu will be.

Not that I think Ryu will definitely be cut or anything, I really couldn't say... I just don't believe him to be "safe", while, barring Capcom going the way of Konami or breaking up with Nintendo like SE did ~twenty years ago, I believe Mega Man is.

Honestly, I think all the 3rd Parties we have right now have more reason to stay than go.

Granted I said that for Snake but....

True as that might be, I would argue that has also applied to a handful of characters that have been cut before, not the least of which is Snake. I mean I could say the same about how people viewed like half the characters in your row of mains.

Just because it may be valid, which I think it is, doesn't mean those characters are safe.

No Kirby newcomer? Not complaining about your opinion or anything, but 2 games were made in like 18 months.

To be fair Kirby has its main cast already. Just because there are more possible characters doesn't mean it needs them. It's not Mario.

Every developer wants their character in Smash Bros.

You're much better off asking which devs don't want to see their characters in Smash.

For what ever reason, I don't believe Konami was receptive to including Snake this time around. Maybe just out of spite. Because from a monetary perspective, it makes a bunch of sense. Regardless, makes me worry a little for if Sakurai ever tried to bother including Bomberman. But not too much.

And ofc I am just guessing.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

This may seem naive, but I really do think the 3rd party characters that share a company are tied together at this point.

Package deals, if you will.

+
+

Granted, I could be completely wrong, but unless the roster sees some massive downsizing (I think a lot of characters will go before third parties) or the director just doesn't want a character anymore (maybe that's what happened with Snake?), I can't see any real reason we'd get one but not the other.

Personally, I think the companies with only one character are more likely to leave and one of them ain't going anywhere.






Sega and Capcom are tied pretty closely now with Smash. They have a lot of content in the game from characters, to stages, to costumes, etc. Namco is in deep as well (heck they made the game). I think all three companies have seen just what Smash can do and trust it fully.

Square Enix is the wild card here. They jumped on late, but they jumped on. For someone as protective with their properties as they are, that says how much they trust Sakurai and the Smash Bros IP. I think the only thing that would affect Cloud coming back would be the director. I'm not sure if Cloud will stay or go, but I'd love to see him return personally.

Konami? I've given up predicting what they're gonna do. Snake. I love ya bud. I want ya back, but you're in a strange place right now.






Might as well say some things about new third party characters since I'm here.

Yeah, I think Capcom, Sega, Namco and Square could get more characters. It wouldn't surprise me if another Sonic character came in and I think Namco getting a second series represented is rather likely. I'm personally betting on Sakurai revisiting his Heihachi idea. Konami is Konami man....


I think next Smash could see the introduction of a western third party. With Nintendo going out of their way to get games like Skyrim, Fifa and 2K, as well as working directly with Capcom with their hardware, I think they're becoming rather serious with their third party support. I don't see Sakurai choosing one unless they did well on the ballot, but I could see Nintendo's new management pushing one real hard. I don't know who that would be though...

An Ubisoft character like Rayman? Ezio?
A Bethsheda character like the Dragonborn? Doomguy?
An EA character like.... uh.... well damn...

Point is, I think western third parties are in the running now, which I couldn't say for Smash 4.


I also think smaller third party series have a shot as well. This not only applies to popular indie games like Shantae and Shovel Knight, but also games from more modest non indie studios like Grasshopper Entertainment. Yes I think Travis has a shot now. Especially if No More Heroes 3 becomes popular.

I think Bayonetta opened the doors for third parties. Yes, as the ballot winner, she is a bit of a special case and she is tied directly to Sega, one of Nintendo's closest partners, but I feel that she gives precedent to the idea that third party choices don't have to get in on their legacy ( not that these guys did necessarily, but it certainly helped). Sakurai is willing to include more minor third parties if he feels its what the fans want and if they can provide a fun and interesting playstyle.


Guests need to be fun above all else after all.

 

[Megadoomer]

Tried to make a somewhat more realistic roster, based on trends that I noticed from previous games. I've got explanations under the spoiler tag, in case anyone wonders why I made the decisions that I did (though I'm sure the actual roster will have some off-the-wall unpredictable picks).

Veterans:

Spoiler

All Smash 4 veterans return: as a general rule, it seems like the team dislikes cutting characters if they can help it, unless the characters are clones, have technical issues preventing them from working, or there are legal issues (with third parties and such). Lucina's a popular character in her own right (going by the Fire Emblem Heroes poll, she's the second most popular female character across the whole series), while Dr. Mario and Roy seem to be quite popular within the Smash fanbase. Dark Pit's a bit more questionable, but I feel like Sakurai would want to redeem the character, or at least make him more unique.

As for licensing, the only one that I'm iffy about is Cloud. Sonic and Bayonetta seem pretty close to sure things as far as third party characters go, between Sonic being really close to Nintendo in general and Bayonetta winning a major popularity poll among the Smash fanbase. Mega Man and Ryu seem like a package deal, and Namco-Bandai seems really close to Nintendo. Still, if I recall interviews correctly, Square-Enix allowed a lot of creative freedom in terms of Cloud being added to Smash, so I can see them having no problem with him returning.

Ice Climbers, Wolf, and Snake return: Ice Climbers seem like a no-brainer - the only thing keeping them out of Smash 4 was the limitations of the 3DS, and that's likely no longer an issue. (even if they do home console + portable versions of the game again, I feel like Nintendo's next handheld should be able to handle them) Wolf and Snake were easily the most popular cut Brawl veterans, and with Konami seeming to come to their senses (they're taking steps back into the console market, with Super Bomberman R standing out), they might be more willing to let Snake return (especially if he proved to be popular in the Smash Ballot).

Newcomers:

Spoiler

It seems to me that Smash games tend to get their roster from the previous generation of home consoles and the current generation of handhelds. We don't know what the 3DS's successor will be, so I have nothing to go on there (aside from a new Pokemon, which seems guaranteed - Decidueye could be that Pokemon, or it could be someone from a future generation).

For the inevitable retro character, I'm guessing Takamaru. He was considered for Smash 4, but kept out because places outside of Japan would be unfamiliar with him. Between Nintendo Land, Smash 4, and his game getting a worldwide 3DS eShop release, I feel like that's no longer the case.

For major Wii U titles...

Splatoon: well, duh. There's no way that the Inklings will be left out

Captain Toad's Treasure Tracker: Toad's one of the last major Mario characters to be included, and Captain Toad gives him something more consistent to work with (instead of a bunch of random moves brought together from unrelated titles)

Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze: this could depend on the Smash Ballot. Going by this game, Dixie Kong seems pretty likely (could get Cranky instead, but Dixie's been playable about as much as Diddy has in the DKC games), but if K. Rool did exceptionally well in the Smash Ballot (which definitely seems possible), we could get him instead.

Pikmin 3: I could see Alph getting in as a semi-clone - the rock and flying Pikmin already make him more different from Olimar than Dark Pit was compared to Pit.

Hyrule Warriors: given how well this did (between getting a 3DS version and Koei Tecmo getting to make a Fire Emblem Warriors game), I feel like we'll get one of the characters from here. Whether it's Impa, Midna, Ghirahim, Lana (not sure who owns the original characters), Linkle, Skull Kid, or someone else, there's a lot of options, and a new Zelda character is long overdue.

Xenoblade Chronicles X: I feel like this depends on when development starts on Smash 5 (we could get Fiora, who was popular enough to appear in Project X Zone 2, or someone from Xenoblade Chronicles 2), but if there's a Wii U focus, Elma seems likely (Cross seems like too much of a blank slate - at least Robin and Corrin have their own personalities)

The Wonderful 101: I feel like this could be thrown in as a curveball - a lesser-known series that they would like to promote (like Earthbound, Fire Emblem, Kid Icarus, or Xenoblade Chronicles when they first appeared in Smash). Nintendo and Platinum seem pretty close, so I could see it happening.

Rayman Legends: I find it weird that Nintendo got the rights to include Rayman in Smash but only put him in as a trophy. I feel like they'll push harder for him to be included in this Smash game, and seeing as he was already included in some form, I can't see the devs saying no.

Shovel Knight: easily one of the most major indie titles on the Wii U - popular enough to get its own amiibo. Given that Nintendo had more of a focus on indie developers this generation, it seems possible.

Two longshots (that still seem plausible, at least to me) are Sylux and Travis Touchdown. As much as I'd love to see Ridley, the development team (or at least Sakurai) seems dead-set on excluding him. However, between the demand for a new Metroid character and Sylux's rising importance in the Metroid Prime games, I could see him being included as a compromise.

For Travis Touchdown, Suda 51 has been asking Sakurai about including him in Smash for years. He restated his desire to see this happen (and to pester Sakurai about it) recently, and with No More Heroes 3 coming to the Switch (not to mention the series' history on Nintendo consoles), I could see it happening as an unexpected third party pick like Snake, Cloud, or Bayonetta.

This is just my opinion, and some characters (Decidueye, Dixie, and Impa) are arguably placeholders, but I tried to keep my expectations in check. (I left out some characters that I feel are must-haves (and there are way less villains than I would have liked), and I've got way less new series in there than I would normally add - only six)

 

[CardiganBoy]

Snake and Cloud are the only 3rd party characters i care about, well Sonic too, but he is not going away. Oh, and Ryu too
Would be ecstatic if there's a 2nd SE character.

 

[Roberto zampari]

Megaman is cool, but his Final Smash lacks Vent/Aile from Megaman ZX or Over-1 from Megaman Xover.
Do you think that's necessary?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Megaman is cool, but his Final Smash lacks Vent/Aile from Megaman ZX or Over-1 from Megaman Xover.
Do you think that's necessary?

Xover didn't exist then, did it?

And technically, Vent/Aile aren't Mega Man, are they?

 

[Depressed Gengar]

Xover didn't exist then, did it?

According to the Mega Man wiki, X-Over was released in late 2012, so OVER-1 could have technically been added to the Final Smash.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

According to the Mega Man wiki, X-Over was released in late 2012, so OVER-1 could have technically been added to the Final Smash.

Well then.

Considering how bad it bombed I guess Sakurai just filled it up with good Mega Men.

 

[Deleted member]

Megaman is cool, but his Final Smash lacks Vent/Aile from Megaman ZX or Over-1 from Megaman Xover.
Do you think that's necessary?

As necessary as Bad Box Art Mega Man.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

As necessary as Bad Box Art Mega Man.

Agreed.

Albeit, at least BBAM has some fans. And got a crossover simply just to have fun with that design. And is somewhat recognizable due to how infamous it is, even if it's more of a meme at this point.

I'll still take it over the pea green MegaMan in Captain N. That design was just as off and the colors were sickening. The games that had classic MegaMan bothered to give him proper green colors, for one thing.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Super Smash Bros. Fan-Made Flash Game

The Concept of this game is to focus less on recent character and more on lesser Nintendo Icons that are less likely to appear in Super Smash Bros. (AND THIRD-PARTY CHARACTERS)

The game is a throwback to the original Super Smash Bros on Nintendo 64. It features similar music, a traditional classic mode (with multiple paths) a throwback to the original menus, bonus games (including new ones), and possibly a Melee-Styled Adventure Mode.

"Congratulations" screens are drawn by fans.

Spoiler: Season 1 Expansion Pack

Spoiler: Season 2 Expansion Pack

It also features the return of midair stages with special gimmicks like in the original SSB64.

Spoiler: STAGES

Super Mario

• Mushroom Kingdom
• Bowser's Castle

Donkey Kong

• Jungle Hijinx
• Donkey Kong (Arcade Game)

The Legend of Zelda

• Hyrule Castle
• Windfall Island

Kirby

• Green Greens
• Planet Robobot

Yoshi

• Yoshi's Island
• Castle/Fortress

Pokemon

• Pokemon Stadium
• Pokemon League

Star Fox

• Great Fox (Star Fox Zero)
• Great Fox II (Star Fox Command)

F-Zero

• Mute City (3DS)

Mother/Earthbound

• Magicant

Pikmin

• Valley of Hope
• Twilight River

Sonic The Hedgehog

• Splash Hill Zone
• Casino Street Zone

Anybody can be added in the future, but there would realistically be less characters at first because indie flash games aren't made by game companies. Who do you want added? Any Third Parties, specifically? Any lesser known Nintendo icons? Lip? Takamaru? Lyn would make sense. How about King Boo? That'd be cool.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Waluigi isn't a Wario character at all. But otherwise, nice roster, considering its purpose. I'd however switch Falco with Wolf being that Wolf has a lot more potential right now due to his immense weaponry and style throughout the various games. If you want more variety, anyway. Falco isn't even that odd from Fox despite how massively changed he is in 4.

Takamaru and Lip would be great. Also, a Bandai-Namco rep like Nightmare, Lloyd, or Agumon could really spice it up.

My personal 3rd party pick is always Brian from Quest 64, and he's a Nintendo-only character, from the first n64 rpg. It did make a big of an impact... just not in the good kind of way. Surprisingly has become a more cult classic game to a small slew of fans(by small, as in a portion of people, like less than 1% of the world).

As for the Pokemon, Mewtwo is fine, but Raichu is just too shoehorned in at this point. Stick with the more popular Pichu, Lucario, or Greninja if you want another one. Also, no reason for that many Sonic characters even then. 2-3 alone is good enough. I'd go with Amy or Eggman due to interesting battle weaponry they can use. Amy's a pretty unique hammer user, and Eggman has excellent mechs. You already pretty much got the hero angle down with Sonic and Shadow alone.

Yarn Kirby feels too much like a silly shoehorn, imo. Go with some more distinct choices. Bandana Waddle Dee for a spear user would be a lot more pleasing being it's also the overall 4th most pushed character. Magalador(did I spell that right?) is another excellent option.

Where's Ridley? Feels kind of silly to leave him out but overrun it with Sonic characters. Also, the fact Wolf isn't even an expansion character is kind of silly too. Keeping Falco is more than fine due to his popularity, but removing the 3rd most popular is kind of pointless now. It already gained a lot of outrage during Smash 4 itself. That said, Sheik is pretty deserving, as is Pig Ganon. There's 6 super notable Zelda characters, happening to be 2 forms for each main Triforce user. The only other ones besides those 6 of note are Tingle and Impa, of course. I get that Tingle is still controversial, but Impa is rather big right now. Vaati really doesn't have the notoriety at this point, and feels more like a shoehorn for the sake of it. He's not a bad choice, but shouldn't be there when Sheik blatantly deserves the spot at this point, and so does Impa far more. Hell, Tingle has his own games, which says a lot on how important he is(his importance has died down, but Vaati is pretty much nothing anymore. He's been a very dead character for a while now, and wouldn't even do much). If you do want a more active one, Pig Ganon(due to his resurgence in BOTW) and Wolf Link are fairly big. Midna is active by design, whether her imp form or her proper Twili form.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Waluigi isn't a Wario character at all. But otherwise, nice roster, considering its purpose. I'd however switch Falco with Wolf being that Wolf has a lot more potential right now due to his immense weaponry and style throughout the various games. If you want more variety, anyway. Falco isn't even that odd from Fox despite how massively changed he is in 4.

I don't think Waluigi is a Wario character. I put him in there because I want to see what kinds of zany moves could be invented for him. One's that are original and not from Mario games.

Here is the thing about Falco. You think Wolf is more important than him because he's more different? Why wasn't Wolf in Smash 4? Because you can't have another Star Fox character without Falco. If we are going by your logic, I guess I should get rid of Luigi. If character abilities are more important than the characters themselves, this may as well just be Dragon King The Fighting Game.

As for the Pokemon, Mewtwo is fine, but Raichu is just too shoehorned in at this point. Stick with the more popular Pichu, Lucario, or Greninja if you want another one.

Yarn Kirby feels too much like a silly shoehorn, imo. Go with some more distinct choices. Bandana Waddle Dee for a spear user would be a lot more pleasing being it's also the overall 4th most pushed character. Magalador(did I spell that right?) is another excellent option.

I don't appreciate your use of the word "shoe horn". You seem to have a complete lack of respect for characters that either share moves or are different forms.

Where's Ridley? Feels kind of silly to leave him out but overrun it with Sonic characters. Also, the fact Wolf isn't even an expansion character is kind of silly too.

I think you are missing the point of this roster. Also the reasons for Ridley not being a good inclusion have already been made clear by myself as well as the director of SSB.

And I already said more characters can be added so why are you complaining about Wolf?

Keeping Falco is more than fine due to his popularity, but removing the 3rd most popular is kind of pointless now. It already gained a lot of outrage during Smash 4 itself. That said, Sheik is pretty deserving, as is Pig Ganon.

Pig Ganon? No. Also wouln't that be "shoe horned".

Anyway, I already made it pretty clear that this is meant to focus on lesser Nintendo characers. That's why Zoroark is there instead of Lucario. That's why Vaati is there. This isn't a successor to Smash 4.

 

[Deleted member]

Waluigi isn't a Wario character at all.

But it's not like the idea is completely out there.... :^)

Never forgetti.
Rip in spaghetti.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

But it's not like the idea is completely out there.... :^)
View attachment 126860

Never forgetti.
Rip in spaghetti.

Super Smash Bros. could be Waluigi's introduction to the WarioWare universe to some extent. There are things that have originated in Smash and crossed over into the actual universe, including characters that never existed.

 

[The Smash Nerd II.0.]

But it's not like the idea is completely out there.... :^)
View attachment 126860

Never forgetti.
Rip in spaghetti.

Super Smash Bros. could be Waluigi's introduction to the WarioWare universe to some extent. There are things that have originated in Smash and crossed over into the actual universe, including characters that never existed.

That's just a mistake by Nintendo. Nice try Jinjo and Yuiitusin.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I don't think Waluigi is a Wario character. I put him in there because I want to see what kinds of zany moves could be invented for him. One's that are original and not from Mario games.

Here is the thing about Falco. You think Wolf is more important than him because he's more different? Why wasn't Wolf in Smash 4? Because you can't have another Star Fox character without Falco. If we are going by your logic, I guess I should get rid of Luigi. If character abilities are more important than the characters themselves, this may as well just be Dragon King The Fighting Game.

No, I think Wolf has proven to be more unique than him. Both should be in, anyway.

I don't appreciate your use of the word "shoe horn". You seem to have a complete lack of respect for characters that either share moves or are different forms.

Which doesn't apply to Raichu since its own unique thing. Yarn Kirby is kind of the only similar deal. I didn't say anything about Paper Mario because he's very unique. I do feel Bandana Waddle Dee is significantly more important to the series as a whole.

I think you are missing the point of this roster. Also the reasons for Ridley not being a good inclusion have already been made clear by myself as well as the director of SSB.

Fair enough, although I'd rather see your reasoning for all your choices in the main post you make the roster in. I can't remember everything. But fair enough.

And I already said more characters can be added so why are you complaining about Wolf?

He's not on your list? Only reason.

Pig Ganon? No. Also wouln't that be "shoe horned".

Pig Ganon is very underappreciated, and actually is given a lot less love than Ganondorf for no good reason. He was there from the start, clearly does have potential. He's treated a bit as a lesser character at this point. Also, Impa isn't anywhere near as important as the triforce trio, so that's a good enough reason to do so. But I get what you're trying to do, completely use characters that are barely used at all/mostly forgotten, with obvious exceptions of course(like Paper Mario).

Anyway, I already made it pretty clear that this is meant to focus on lesser Nintendo characers. That's why Zoroark is there instead of Lucario. That's why Vaati is there. This isn't a successor to Smash 4.

A focus shouldn't disclude important characters entirely. Also, in that case, Krystal would make even more sense than Wolf since she's far lesser than him.

But yes, I did miss that part and I apologize for that.

Anyway, that's also part of why I suggested Brian. While 3rd party, he's also from a forgotten Nintendo console/system-only series, and does fit your criteria. But to be fair, what is your criteria for 3rd party choices? And i mean all the criteria.

But it's not like the idea is completely out there.... :^)
View attachment 126860

Never forgetti.
Rip in spaghetti.

Despite being a screw up, it would be great if he got introduced into the WarioWare series, agreed.

 

[Deleted member]

That's just a mistake by Nintendo. Nice try Jinjo and Yuiitusin.

I think they already know that, hence Golden's last sentence.

 

[Deleted member]

That's just a mistake by Nintendo. Nice try Jinjo and Yuiitusin.

Um, excuse you.
Never did I say otherwise.

Rather, I'm pretty sure the fact that I used a commonly expressed emoticon to refer to saying something jokingly as well as an obvious meme phrase in context to the picture made it completely clear that my post wasn't meant to be taken seriously.


That being said, mistake or not, the fact is that Nintendo clearly felt Waluigi had enough association to Wario to be given the Wario symbol in the Smash Direct regardless of his lack of appearance within Wario's games.
Who's to say that Sakurai (or whoever is directing the series) wouldn't put Waluigi with Wario if he ever got promoted to fighter?
And I don't necessarily mean label him a Wario character, even though we've had strange labels in the past in regards to the extended Marioverse:

-A stage based on a Super Mario World level being given the Yoshi symbol solely because of the connection to Yoshi.
-A Wrecking Crew stage being given its own symbol despite the game(s) being part of the Mario series and the Golden Hammer from the same game being given the Mario symbol.
-Barrels being counted as Smash-original items despite being from the Donkey Kong series (though the "present" barrels and "future" barrels introduced in Brawl might have to do with that).
-Banana Peels being counted as Mario items instead of Donkey Kong items because of Mario Kart despite not having visible eyes and being one of Diddy Kong's Special Moves as well as a standard item.
-Soccer Balls being counted as Mario items due to the association with the first Mario Strikers (the second uses a unique metallic ball) despite being just generic soccer balls and being given the origin of the old NES game Soccer in the Brawl and Smash Wii U trophies.
-Kamek, Baby Mario, Baby Peach, and Baby Luigi being given the Mario label in Smash 4 instead of the Yoshi label like the former two babies had in Brawl.
-etc.

What I mean is Waluigi could easily be beside Wario on the actual character select screen even without being given the Wario label, just for his association with him. And before you try to claim that "they wouldn't separate Waluigi from the other characters with the Mario label", remember that they did have Yoshi between Bowser and Rosalina in Smash 4's CSS, separating her and Bowser Jr. from the other characters with the same series symbol. And then there's Dr. Mario, but he's a special case.


EDIT: WHY DID NO ONE TELL ME I PUT THE WRONG MARIO GAME FOR YOSHI?!

 

[TheLastJinjo]

No, I think Wolf has proven to be more unique than him. Both should be in, anyway.

I didn't say Falco was more unique, I said he was more important.

Which doesn't apply to Raichu since its own unique thing.

What is your point?

Yarn Kirby is kind of the only similar deal.

Have you ever played Kirby's Epic Yarn? Literally NONE of Kirby's abilities are in it. He's stripped completely of his abilities and given new ones.

• Paper Mario
• Yarn Kirby
• Zero Suit Samus

Are all examples of characters that are the same character, but have completely new abilities. What is your deal with "Oh, he's the same character. Oh, he's not unique enough."? Not only is that not the credentials I go by in this fan made roster, it doesn't even accurately portray the credentials of characters in the real game. Uniqueness is important, but it's not the be-all end-all to a character's worth or Luigi & Dr. Mario would not exist in the games.

I didn't say anything about Paper Mario because he's very unique.

That's not the only thing that matters.

I do feel Bandana Waddle Dee is significantly more important to the series as a whole.

More significant than Kirby? I don't think so. I thought I already explained to you several times that the point of this roster was to give the spotlight to LESS important characters. Which means Waddle Dee is certainly up for consideration, but your argument that he's more important misses the point of this conversation.

You keep arguing like it's this character or that character. The whole point of expansion updates is to add more characters so what is your issue?

Fair enough, although I'd rather see your reasoning for all your choices in the main post you make the roster in. I can't remember everything. But fair enough.

I feel most of these character inclusions are self explanatory.

Pig Ganon is very underappreciated, and actually is given a lot less love than Ganondorf for no good reason. He was there from the start, clearly does have potential. He's treated a bit as a lesser character at this point. Also, Impa isn't anywhere near as important as the triforce trio, so that's a good enough reason to do so. But I get what you're trying to do, completely use characters that are barely used at all/mostly forgotten, with obvious exceptions of course(like Paper Mario).

That's not entirely the case. It's about charaters who have good reason to be in, but most likely never will be because of they are lower priority than big name characters (Samurai Goroh, Golden Sun's Isaac, Black & White's Zoroark)

A focus shouldn't disclude important characters entirely. Also, in that case, Krystal would make even more sense than Wolf since she's far lesser than him.

It doesn't disclude important characters entirely. Last time I checked, Mario, Luigi, Link, Kirby, Samus, Olimar, Ike, Falco, were all on there.

Um, excuse you.
Never did I say otherwise.

Rather, I'm pretty sure the fact that I used a commonly expressed emoticon to refer to saying something jokingly as well as an obvious meme phrase in context to the picture made it completely clear that my post wasn't meant to be taken seriously.


That being said, mistake or not, the fact is that Nintendo clearly felt Waluigi had enough association to Wario to be given the Wario symbol in the Smash Direct regardless of his lack of appearance within Wario's games.
Who's to say that Sakurai (or whoever is directing the series) wouldn't put Waluigi with Wario if he ever got promoted to fighter?
And I don't necessarily mean label him a Wario character, even though we've had strange labels in the past in regards to the extended Marioverse:

-A stage based on Super Mario Bros. 3 being given the Yoshi symbol solely because of the connection to Yoshi.
-A Wrecking Crew stage being given its own symbol despite the game(s) being part of the Mario series and the Golden Hammer from the same game being given the Mario symbol.
-Barrels being counted as Smash-original items despite being from the Donkey Kong series (though the "present" barrels and "future" barrels introduced in Brawl might have to do with that).
-Banana Peels being counted as Mario items instead of Donkey Kong items because of Mario Kart despite not having visible eyes and being one of Diddy Kong's Special Moves as well as a standard item.
-Soccer Balls being counted as Mario items due to the association with the first Mario Strikers (the second uses a unique metallic ball) despite being just generic soccer balls and being given the origin of the old NES game Soccer in the Brawl and Smash Wii U trophies.
-Kamek, Baby Mario, Baby Peach, and Baby Luigi being given the Mario label in Smash 4 instead of the Yoshi label like the former two babies had in Brawl.
-etc.

What I mean is Waluigi could easily be beside Wario on the actual character select screen even without being given the Wario label, just for his association with him. And before you try to claim that "they wouldn't separate Waluigi from the other characters with the Mario label", remember that they did have Yoshi between Bowser and Rosalina in Smash 4's CSS, separating her and Bowser Jr. from the other characters with the same series symbol. And then there's Dr. Mario, but he's a special case.

Not to mention all the things that originate from Smash like Giga Bowser, The Falcon Flyer, The Clown Car's characteristics, Dark Pit, Sheik's new design, ZSS's Jet Heels, and almost Toon Sheik.

My interest pertained to the potential that Waluigi could have a move set based on his zany personality, the way that Wario had a lot of moves based on his that were completely unique. After all, that's why so many people want to see Waluigi playable in the first place.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I didn't say Falco was more unique, I said he was more important.



What is your point?

Have you ever played Kirby's Epic Yarn? Literally NONE of Kirby's abilities are in it. He's stripped completely of his abilities and given new ones.

• Paper Mario
• Yarn Kirby
• Zero Suit Samus

Are all examples of characters that are the same character, but have completely new abilities. What is your deal with "Oh, he's the same character. Oh, he's not unique enough."? Not only is that not the credentials I go by in this fan made roster, it doesn't even accurately portray the credentials of characters in the real game. Uniqueness is important, but it's not the be-all end-all to a character's worth or Luigi & Dr. Mario would not exist in the games.



That's not the only thing that matters.

More significant than Kirby? I don't think so. I thought I already explained to you several times that the point of this roster was to give the spotlight to LESS important characters. Which means Waddle Dee is certainly up for consideration, but your argument that he's more important misses the point of this conversation.

You keep arguing like it's this character or that character. The whole point of expansion updates is to add more characters so what is your issue?



I feel most of these character inclusions are self explanatory.



That's not entirely the case. It's about charaters who have good reason to be in, but most likely never will be because of they are lower priority than big name characters (Samurai Goroh, Golden Sun's Isaac, Black & White's Zoroark)



It doesn't disclude important characters entirely. Last time I checked, Mario, Luigi, Link, Kirby, Samus, Olimar, Ike, Falco, were all on there.


Not to mention all the things that originate from Smash like Giga Bowser, The Falcon Flyer, The Clown Car's characteristics, Dark Pit, Sheik's new design, ZSS's Jet Heels, and almost Toon Sheik.

My interest pertained to the potential that Waluigi could have a move set based on his zany personality, the way that Wario had a lot of moves based on his that were completely unique. After all, that's why so many people want to see Waluigi playable in the first place.

Yarn Kirby isn't in the same important role as Paper Mario or Zero Suit Samus. He's just a one-off game version. You are right that he's unique, so I won't argue that. But he's a blatantly lesser character than Waddle Dee because he's not from the regular universe at all. When you look at which Kirby characters, you realize that Yarn Kirby isn't all that notable, even if he is Kirby. PM and ZSS also established themselves quite well as interesting characters, something Yarn Kirby didn't do nearly as much.

However, being your focus is on lesser characters, I understand your reasoning for Yarn Kirby better now.

Anyway, I still want to know your 3rd party criteria before I can properly suggest someone.

 

[Deleted member]

Yarn Kirby isn't in the same important role as Paper Mario or Zero Suit Samus. He's just a one-off game version. You are right that he's unique, so I won't argue that. But he's a blatantly lesser character than Waddle Dee because he's not from the regular universe at all. When you look at which Kirby characters, you realize that Yarn Kirby isn't all that notable, even if he is Kirby. PM and ZSS also established themselves quite well as interesting characters, something Yarn Kirby didn't do nearly as much.

Paper Mario, I'll give you.

Zero Suit Samus? Not so much.
Before her debut in Brawl, all a "suitless Samus" ever really served in the Metroid series was eye candy for those who beat the games fast enough with the sole exception of the Zero Suit variety having one special level in Metroid Zero Mission where she had to escape from Space Pirates with nothing but a stun gun and reclaim her armor.
Though that wasn't nearly enough to establish "Zero Suit Samus" as an "interesting character" in her own right compared to the iconic Power Suit/Varia Suit wearing counterpart.


Since Brawl? The only game to attempt to give Samus any on-screen character with and without her armor is one many wish didn't bother.

Not that I agree with Yarn Kirby here. If anything, it's better to go with Prince Fluff since he's pretty much the same thing only he's his own character as opposed to a variation of a pre-existing one.
Just that Zero Suit Samus is a horrible counter-example.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Paper Mario, I'll give you.

Zero Suit Samus? Not so much.
Before her debut in Brawl, all a "suitless Samus" ever really served in the Metroid series was eye candy for those who beat the games fast enough with the sole exception of the Zero Suit variety having one special level in Metroid Zero Mission where she had to escape from Space Pirates with nothing but a stun gun and reclaim her armor.
Though that wasn't nearly enough to establish "Zero Suit Samus" as an "interesting character" in her own right compared to the iconic Power Suit/Varia Suit wearing counterpart.


Since Brawl? The only game to attempt to give Samus any on-screen character with and without her armor is one many wish didn't bother.

Not that I agree with Yarn Kirby here. If anything, it's better to go with Prince Fluff since he's pretty much the same thing only he's his own character as opposed to a variation of a pre-existing one.
Just that Zero Suit Samus is a horrible counter-example.

I'm more talking about their current status, but very good point. I'm referring to their additions to his roster, not to Brawl/Smash 4/future Smash games, Yarn Kirby is the only one without any real personality at all. Where the others are pretty established as characters and recognizable(for better or worse).

 

[Opossum]

I didn't say Falco was more unique, I said he was more important.



What is your point?

Have you ever played Kirby's Epic Yarn? Literally NONE of Kirby's abilities are in it. He's stripped completely of his abilities and given new ones.

• Paper Mario
• Yarn Kirby
• Zero Suit Samus

Are all examples of characters that are the same character, but have completely new abilities. What is your deal with "Oh, he's the same character. Oh, he's not unique enough."? Not only is that not the credentials I go by in this fan made roster, it doesn't even accurately portray the credentials of characters in the real game. Uniqueness is important, but it's not the be-all end-all to a character's worth or Luigi & Dr. Mario would not exist in the games.



That's not the only thing that matters.

More significant than Kirby? I don't think so. I thought I already explained to you several times that the point of this roster was to give the spotlight to LESS important characters. Which means Waddle Dee is certainly up for consideration, but your argument that he's more important misses the point of this conversation.

You keep arguing like it's this character or that character. The whole point of expansion updates is to add more characters so what is your issue?



I feel most of these character inclusions are self explanatory.



That's not entirely the case. It's about charaters who have good reason to be in, but most likely never will be because of they are lower priority than big name characters (Samurai Goroh, Golden Sun's Isaac, Black & White's Zoroark)



It doesn't disclude important characters entirely. Last time I checked, Mario, Luigi, Link, Kirby, Samus, Olimar, Ike, Falco, were all on there.


Not to mention all the things that originate from Smash like Giga Bowser, The Falcon Flyer, The Clown Car's characteristics, Dark Pit, Sheik's new design, ZSS's Jet Heels, and almost Toon Sheik.

My interest pertained to the potential that Waluigi could have a move set based on his zany personality, the way that Wario had a lot of moves based on his that were completely unique. After all, that's why so many people want to see Waluigi playable in the first place.

A nitpick, of course, but the Falcon Flyer didn't originate in Smash. IIRC it's from one of the original F-Zero manuals or guidebooks.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Paper Mario, I'll give you.

Zero Suit Samus? Not so much.
Before her debut in Brawl, all a "suitless Samus" ever really served in the Metroid series was eye candy for those who beat the games fast enough with the sole exception of the Zero Suit variety having one special level in Metroid Zero Mission where she had to escape from Space Pirates with nothing but a stun gun and reclaim her armor.
Though that wasn't nearly enough to establish "Zero Suit Samus" as an "interesting character" in her own right compared to the iconic Power Suit/Varia Suit wearing counterpart.

Potential doesn't have to come from something that a character specifically does in a video game. Ness is never shown using his PSI beyond in battle fx and he doesn't perform most of the PSI he uses in Smash, but the fact that we know he HAS psychic powers is where the potential comes from.

Not that I agree with Yarn Kirby here. If anything, it's better to go with Prince Fluff since he's pretty much the same thing only he's his own character as opposed to a variation of a pre-existing one.

And that makes him better because........????

I mean wouldn't it be better to have a character that's more recognizable? AKA Kirby? I mean he's such a popular character, wouldn't having an alternate version of him be a compliment? Alternate variations may be a result of expanding upon the roster, but that doesn't mean that is their one and only purpose or affect. Having alternate variations of characters better represents that character's history BECAUSE that character has so many variations. Dr. Mario is a good example of representing Mario's history of alter-egos and a very popular one at that.

Just that Zero Suit Samus is a horrible counter-example.

How is she a horrible example? She is a different version of the same character who doesn't share the abilities of the original. Seems like a good example to me.

 

[A Distant Demon]

How is she a horrible example? She is a different version of the same character who doesn't share the abilities of the original. Seems like a good example to me.

Golden meant it was a bad example for Shiny Metal Bass's argument of alternative versions of a character being important
EDIT or at the very least assuming I read things right