Early Smash 5 Fan-Made Rosters (Ideal or Prediction)

[Ura]

AND REINSTATE ISAAC AS AT.
^look how unbiased I am. Not like that crazy guy who added Chrom.

I'm ashamed you didn't go all the way with this N3ON. You've let all your fellow Adepts down.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

If you ask me, I'm optimistic that Smash for Nintendo Switch will be a completely new installment built from Super Smash Bros. for Wii U as a model.

I think they could get away with it. Nintendo Switch is basically a slightly more powerful Wii U. Nintendo has made games that use ripped assets from a previous console like Mario Kart Wii which used models from Double Dash.

What I'm proposing is a port, treated as a sequel. Containing all the content from Smash for Wii U, but having just as much new content as if it were a brand new Smash game, but they won't have to worry about cuts because the veterans have already been made.

We could possibly see a normal amount of newcomers, stages, Pokemon, Assist Trophies, and possibly new modes like Adventure, bonus stages like Break The Targets, new stages for series like EarthBound and F-Zero, maybe even content from the 3DS Version.

And we'd of course have custom moves for DLC characters and maybe some more content from Final Fantasy. Or a new Pikmin character. Who knows. (Personally I wouldn't mind seeing a complete return of past characters with the exception of undoable ones like Young Link & Snake)

It would be a smart decision. With Nintendo Switch coming earlier than most consoles successors because of the Wii U's failure, people are going to expect Smash for the Switch, and if we have to wait for Smash for Wii U/3DS to become old enough, we might not get another Smash game for 6 years. Nintendo Switch is going to be older than Wii U at that point and Smash games are usually expected to be revealed at least the year after the new console.

That being said, I have some expectations in terms of characters. As well as a few ideal decisions.

Spoiler: 15 Character Additions

• Inkling Girl
• Elma
• Decidueye
• Louie/Brittany & Special Pikmin (or Alph as a separate character)
• Dixie Kong
• Toon Zelda
• Rhythm Heaven Troupe
• Takamaru
• Pauline
• Shadow The Hedgehog
• Bomberman
• Indie Character (Shantae or Shovel Knight)
• Simon Belmont
• Ice Climbers
• Wolf

Spoiler: New Content

• 3DS Stages & Trophies
• Adventure Mode
• Smash Run
• Break The Targets
• New Trophies, Items, Pokemon, & Assist Trophies
• Rebooted Star Fox Zero designs for Fox, Falco, & Wolf
• New Costumes (Possibly Ms. Pac-Man, Dry Bowser, & Impa)
• More Final Fantasy content spanning across the Nintendo installments.

To clarify, I put Elma because most Smash games focus on Nintendo's recent past more than future games or games coming out around the same time. Xenoblade 2 presents a completely new art style and direction for Xenoblade and it may make more sense to go with Elma which is more in line with previous Xenoblade games and she could be considered more important since she has a history that's been made already and we don't know when Smash 5 has started development.

I don't think Dixie Kong or Toon Zelda are necessary additions, but they may likely appear due to constant demand for a new Donkey Kong and Zelda character. And they may be easier to add in a game where they don't need to compete with the return of veterans that are already programmed. Same goes for Shadow.

If this game has already started development, I would expect it to be revealed in 2018, and possibly be released in 2018-2019.

 

[Ura]

(Personally I wouldn't mind seeing a complete return of past characters with the exception of undoable ones like Young Link & Snake)

Young Link isn't undoable.

Not even close at that.

Same for Snake though Sakurai's view on Konami could potentially be a firewall of sorts preventing Snake in the game.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Young Link isn't undoable.

Not even close at that.

Same for Snake though Sakurai's view on Konami could potentially be a firewall of sorts preventing Snake in the game.

They aren't undoable, but there's no way anybody who care about the quality of the roster would add Young Link when Toon Link IS Young Link. And Snake, sure, I just don't see him making a comeback. Especially if Konami decides Bomberman & Simon Belmont would be better additions and I think most would agree they would be.

 

[Ura]

They aren't undoable, but there's no way anybody who care about the quality of the roster would add Young Link when Toon Link IS Young Link. And Snake, sure, I just don't see him making a comeback. Especially if Konami decides Bomberman & Simon Belmont would be better additions and I think most would agree they would be.

They're literally not the same character. Toon Link is a Link that happens to be young but he isn't Young Link.

This argument is everywhere and it's complete nonsense, no offense or anything.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

They're literally not the same character. Toon Link is a Link that happens to be young but he isn't Young Link.

This argument is everywhere and it's complete nonsense, no offense or anything.

I didn't say they were the same charater. I'm saying because of his age, Toon Link is by definition "Young" Link. Making the other Young Link's inclusion the most unnecessary one of all to the point where it would directly inhibit the roster's quality and credibility.

 

[Ura]

I didn't say they were the same charater. I'm saying because of his age, Toon Link is by definition "Young" Link. Making the other Young Link's inclusion the most unnecessary one of all to the point where it would directly inhibit the roster's quality and credibility.

How would it damage the roster's credibility when both Link's can be made unique and different from each other? Young Link has a huge moveset pool to pull out from and that's all that really matters.

In a roster with 2 Mario's (3 technically as Luigi has a lot of similarities to Mario), 3 Marth's, and a bunch of characters people defend solely on the merit of their moveset, I don't see why it's almost blasphemy to suggest that Young Link should return to the game.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

How would it damage the roster's credibility when both Link's can be made unique and different from each other?

First of all: NO.

Young Link has a huge moveset pool to pull out from and that's all that really matters.

Do we really have to retread this again? If this argument didn't work on Lucas, Lucina, or Dark Pit, what on earth makes you think it will work on Young Link?

That's NOT all that matters. If you think giving characters completely new move sets is all that matters then I question if you've ever played a Smash game before. There are numerous cases where that is NOT what matters.

In a roster with 2 Mario's (3 technically as Luigi has a lot of similarities to Mario)

Once again, NO. Luigi is not Mario. Last time I checked, Mario wasn't his name nor was it in his name.

3 Marth's, and a bunch of characters people defend solely on the merit of their moveset, I don't see why it's almost blasphemy to suggest that Young Link should return to the game.

Because that would make a total of 3 actual Links, 2 of which are nearly exactly the same and serve the same purpose. Not just 3 characters similar to Link. Toon Link IS Young Link. Not only is he Young, but his attributes were pulled directly from Young Link from Melee. He is literally the only character that legitimately REPLACED another character.

Toon Link was added to represent the young version of Link as well as the toon version. That makes Young Link's inclusion 100% pointless.

You can't just go "Young Link can be different". That's what people say about EVERYONE who is a clone and guess what, those characters are still clones. You're argument needs to be based on the way things work. You can't just change the way things work to back up your argument. It's like, you're literally shifting reality to avoid admitting that your proposal isn't based on anything substantial other than coulda's, woulda's, and shoulda's.

 

[Ura]

First of all: NO.


Do we really have to retread this again? If this argument didn't work on Lucas, Lucina, or Dark Pit, what on earth makes you think it will work on Young Link?

That's NOT all that matters. If you think giving characters completely new move sets is all that matters then I question if you've ever played a Smash game before. There are numerous cases where that is NOT what matters.


Once again, NO. Luigi is not Mario. Last time I checked, Mario wasn't his name nor was it in his name.


Because that would make a total of 3 actual Links, 2 of which are nearly exactly the same and serve the same purpose. Not just 3 characters similar to Link. Toon Link IS Young Link. Not only is he Young, but his attributes were pulled directly from Young Link from Melee. He is literally the only character that legitimately REPLACED another character.

Toon Link was added to represent the young version of Link as well as the toon version. That makes Young Link's inclusion 100% pointless.

You can't just go "Young Link can be different". That's what people say about EVERYONE who is a clone and guess what, those characters are still clones. You're argument needs to be based on the way things work. You can't just change the way things work to back up your argument. It's like, you're literally shifting reality to avoid admitting that your proposal isn't based on anything substantial other than coulda's, woulda's, and shoulda's.

- First of all YES (see what I did there?).

- So you get to decide what "matters" and what "doesn't matter" right? Because their must be a criteria I wasn't aware of that you knew for all this time.

- Luigi isn't Mario but the 3 characters share a relatively similar moveset. That's not even what I was getting at.

- Like I said before, Toon Link is a Link that's "young" but he isn't frigging . Yeah, a lot of his attributes were taken to Toon Link (minus the Fire Arrow if I might add) but that doesn't mean he's blocked from ever getting back in the game. And you're clearly not getting what i'm saying if all you're going to go about is how both Link's are relatively the same age and size. My point is that both are unique, distinguishable characters from each other that don't have to play anything like each other.

And yeah, before you try to throw the argument of "Sakurai hardly ever changes up the clones" i'm full aware of that. At the very least he was willing to change up Roy to be different from Marth as well as Dorf/Falco. Obviously for Young Link to be fully unique he's going to have to fully utilize his MM masks among other things and whether or not Sakurai actually does that is a different story. My original point was to challenge the notion of the two characters not being able to co-exist for whatever made up reason the community mutually agrees to and quite frankly neither you or anyone else that spits out this same argument does a good job of sounding convincing.

 

[Deleted member]

Can we just agree that while it isn't literally impossible for Young Link and Toon Link to co-exist in Smash, it's improbable to the point that no one should seriously expect it to ever happen and stop talking about it?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

- First of all YES (see what I did there?).

No.

- So you get to decide what "matters" and what "doesn't matter" right?

Well apparently you do. That was kind of my point. Remember when you literally said "That's all that matters.

- Luigi isn't Mario but the 3 characters share a relatively similar moveset. That's not even what I was getting at.

You literally said Luigi was Mario

- Like I said before, Toon Link is a Link that's "young" but he isn't frigging .

I've already made it clear that I never said that.

Yeah, a lot of his attributes were taken to Toon Link (minus the Fire Arrow if I might add) but that doesn't mean he's blocked from ever getting back in the game.

At this point, GoldenYuiitusen has covered that this discussion is pointless.

My point is that both are unique, distinguishable characters from each other that don't have to play anything like each other.

Great argument.

Dr. Mario & Luigi don't HAVE to play ANYTHING like each other.
Ness & Ninten don't HAVE to play ANYTHING like eac- You know what why am I even bothering?

And yeah, before you try to throw the argument of "Sakurai hardly ever changes up the clones" i'm full aware of that. At the very least he was willing to change up Roy to be different from Marth as well as Dorf/Falco.

That's because those are actually different characters.

Obviously for Young Link to be fully unique he's going to have to fully utilize his MM masks among other things and whether or not Sakurai actually does that is a different story.

You're argument is not that Young Link will be different. You're argument is that he has to be different in order to support your position.

My original point was to challenge the notion of the two characters not being able to co-exist for whatever made up reason the community mutually agrees to and quite frankly neither you or anyone else that spits out this same argument does a good job of sounding convincing.

Made up reasons? Sure.

I agree that trying to convince you was a mistake. I'm gonna take Golden's advice and not bother continuing this further.

 

[Ura]

No.


Well apparently you do. That was kind of my point. Remember when you literally said "That's all that matters.


You literally said Luigi was Mario


I've already made it clear that I never said that.


At this point, GoldenYuiitusen has covered that this discussion is pointless.


Great argument.

Dr. Mario & Luigi don't HAVE to play ANYTHING like each other.
Ness & Ninten don't HAVE to play ANYTHING like eac- You know what why am I even bothering?



That's because those are actually different characters.


You're argument is not that Young Link will be different. You're argument is that he has to be different in order to support your position.



Made up reasons? Sure.

I agree that trying to convince you was a mistake. I'm gonna take Golden's advice and not bother continuing this further.

- Such a nice guy you are.

- I don't. But clearly you do since you're chastising me for what matters and what doesn't.

- Wow really? You're being serious right now? I said Luigi in addition to Doc has a similar playstyle to Mario. You're literally spinning things now to your own favor now and you're making yourself look foolish.

- Fair enough.

- Nice cop out buddy.

- You're using examples of things that have no co-relation to what i'm saying. You're not only grasping at straws but you're crawling towards them.

- Just like how Young Link and Toon Link are different characters (never mind attributes and all that jazz). What's the difference? Said characters in questions were changed up. Even if it wasn't to the degree that YLink would need to be changed up.

- And? I supported Roy before his Smash 4 inclusion on the basis that he would be changed up from his Melee incarnation. At the end of the day I still support the character's inclusion. I just happen to want his moveset to be changed up to incorporate his MM masks and all that.

- Made up indeed. You and the rest of em'. I agree with you in that you shouldn't bother because you haven't done a good job at what you even were trying to accomplish. I should drop this as well. Especially after that Luigi argument you pulled out of your ass.

Can we just agree that while it isn't literally impossible for Young Link and Toon Link to co-exist in Smash, it's improbable to the point that no one should seriously expect it to ever happen and stop talking about it?

Maybe, maybe not.

I think it's not likely he'll return but i'm going to continue supporting the character anyways (just like Ridley supporters still support Ridley). And if the day should ever come where he returns i'm going to take great pleasure in seeing all of the character's detractors be wrong.

 

[Deleted member]

Maybe, maybe not.

I think it's not likely he'll return but i'm going to continue supporting the character anyways (just like Ridley supporters still support Ridley). And if the day should ever come where he returns i'm going to take great pleasure in seeing all of the character's detractors be wrong.

Would that initial pleasure over being right even be worth it?

I'm asking from experience, being a heavy supporter of Dr. Mario's return.
Much like how you're quick to go on the offensive when something about Young Link's potential return or lack thereof is said, I was the same about Doc. Just replace "Young Link has no reason to return because of Toon Link" with "Dr. Mario has no reason to be anything but a costume".
Just like you argued about how Young Link could get an updated moveset based on MM, I argued for how Doc could be given an updated moveset that actually takes more inspiration from his home series.
I had the same cocky attitude as you in regards to the hypothetical that he should return. Hell, when Lucina was revealed and Sakurai said what he did about her, I acted as though he had no excuse for Doc not returning as his own character instead of the alt people said he should be (which to this day I will still defend against the concept; I'd take no Doc over being nothing but an aesthetic).

But in the end, I was right about Doc being his own character instead of an alt.
Yet it's a hollow victory. Not only does Doc still have his cloned moves (with the biggest difference being he kept Mario's old Down Special), but the new distinctions in terms of stats make him not nearly as fun for me to play as he was in Melee (though I still play as him).
And his return is just a source of controversy among the Smash fanbase.

So I was right and they were wrong. But at what cost?

 

[Ura]

Would that initial pleasure over being right even be worth it?

I'm asking from experience, being a heavy supporter of Dr. Mario's return.
Much like how you're quick to go on the offensive when something about Young Link's potential return or lack thereof is said, I was the same about Doc. Just replace "Young Link has no reason to return because of Toon Link" with "Dr. Mario has no reason to be anything but a costume".
Just like you argued about how Young Link could get an updated moveset based on MM, I argued for how Doc could be given an updated moveset that actually takes more inspiration from his home series.
I had the same cocky attitude as you in regards to the hypothetical that he should return. Hell, when Lucina was revealed and Sakurai said what he did about her, I acted as though he had no excuse for Doc not returning as his own character instead of the alt people said he should be (which to this day I will still defend against the concept; I'd take no Doc over being nothing but an aesthetic).

But in the end, I was right about Doc being his own character instead of an alt.
Yet it's a hollow victory. Not only does Doc still have his cloned moves (with the biggest difference being he kept Mario's old Down Special), but the new distinctions in terms of stats make him not nearly as fun for me to play as he was in Melee (though I still play as him).
And his return is just a source of controversy among the Smash fanbase.

So I was right and they were wrong. But at what cost?

Well if YLink returns unchanged as he was in Melee that wouldn't be the ideal scenario but i'd still like that.

It would still prove all these people wrong for all the times they bashed the character on false merits and whatnot (saying he could never or should never come back). I still take satisfaction in seeing the detractors be wrong.

If people want to get up in arms about a clone then that's their problem. I wanted Doc back in the game as well (not as much as YLink but still) and I gave zero ****s of what people thought on the character given how little he effected the development of the game.

 

[CardiganBoy]

I wish we get a Xenoblade 2 character over a Xenoblade X one, not hating on X, but i just prefer the overall setting of Chronicles. Though to be fair It's still too early to judge how the Xeno 2 characters are going to be in comparison.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I still think that Dixie Kong and Impa are about the most likely characters to get in, outside of obvious choices like the Inklings of course. They are quite damn prominent in their games, and from huge Nintendo franchises who didn't have a newcomer since Brawl, and both had quite some support during Smash 4's speculation lifespan. And they have presistant and significant roles in their homeseries.

I believe that especially Impa will gain popularity if it turns out she's a prominent character in BotW (if she appears at all...). And Dixie has always been popular and returned for Tropical Freeze, though that didn't do much for her in Smash 4... However, semi-clones weren't included till Lucas and Roy showed up as DLC.

Still, both characters are easy to include as semi-clones and beef the roster up, as well as give veteran franchises a new and important character of their home series, based on the playstyle of their franchise's most popular character in Smash; namely, Diddy and Sheik .

 

[The Smash Nerd II.0.]

Young Link isn't undoable.

Not even close at that.

Same for Snake though Sakurai's view on Konami could potentially be a firewall of sorts preventing Snake in the game.

um. Konami is dead now, It making pachinko machines so Snake not coming back.

- First of all YES (see what I did there?).

- So you get to decide what "matters" and what "doesn't matter" right? Because their must be a criteria I wasn't aware of that you knew for all this time.

- Luigi isn't Mario but the 3 characters share a relatively similar moveset. That's not even what I was getting at.

- Like I said before, Toon Link is a Link that's "young" but he isn't frigging . Yeah, a lot of his attributes were taken to Toon Link (minus the Fire Arrow if I might add) but that doesn't mean he's blocked from ever getting back in the game. And you're clearly not getting what i'm saying if all you're going to go about is how both Link's are relatively the same age and size. My point is that both are unique, distinguishable characters from each other that don't have to play anything like each other.

And yeah, before you try to throw the argument of "Sakurai hardly ever changes up the clones" i'm full aware of that. At the very least he was willing to change up Roy to be different from Marth as well as Dorf/Falco. Obviously for Young Link to be fully unique he's going to have to fully utilize his MM masks among other things and whether or not Sakurai actually does that is a different story. My original point was to challenge the notion of the two characters not being able to co-exist for whatever made up reason the community mutually agrees to and quite frankly neither you or anyone else that spits out this same argument does a good job of sounding convincing.

The hell you taking about.

 

[Opossum]

um. Konami is dead now, It making pachinko machines so Snake not coming back.

Not that I think Snake's coming back, but...you know they still make games, right?

Bomberman R is a Switch launch title and Metal Gear Survive, disappointing as it is, is still a game.

 

[Ura]

I wish we get a Xenoblade 2 character over a Xenoblade X one, not hating on X, but i just prefer the overall setting of Chronicles. Though to be fair It's still too early to judge how the Xeno 2 characters are going to be in comparison.

Well as long as they don't cut Shulk i'd be fine.

Shulk + Xeno 2 character would be great. Xeno is a series that can warrant a 2nd character.

um. Konami is dead now, It making pachinko machines so Snake not coming back.

As Opposum said, they still make games. Mind you their ethics are very questionable and whatnot.

The only potential roadblock to Snake's return would be Sakurai's view on Konami given how they treated his friend Kojima.

 

[The Smash Nerd II.0.]

As Opposum said, they still make games. Mind you their ethics are very questionable and whatnot.

The only potential roadblock to Snake's return would be Sakurai's view on Konami given how they treated his friend Kojima.

No. Game Over Konami (Plays MMV NES game over teem)

 

[Opossum]

No. Game Over Konami (Plays MMV NES game over teem)

I'll ask again...you're aware Konami still makes games, right?

 

[The Smash Nerd II.0.]

I'll ask again...you're aware Konami still makes games, right?

Are you kidding, Yes

 

[Opossum]

Are you kidding, Yes

Could have fooled me, considering you said this:

um. Konami is dead now, It making pachinko machines so Snake not coming back.



The hell you taking about.

Just pointing out that Konami isn't "dead." Granted, I don't think Snake is coming back anyway, but I think that's more out of Sakurai's loyalty to Kojima than anything.

 

[Ura]

No. Game Over Konami (Plays MMV NES game over teem)

If only I could make sense of what you're saying.

Ura OMG you suck

 

[CardiganBoy]

Well as long as they don't cut Shulk i'd be fine.

Shulk + Xeno 2 character would be great. Xeno is a series that can warrant a 2nd character.

I don't think Shulk would be cut, that would be like cutting Marth back in Brawl in favor of Ike, and now Shulk's spot is more solidified because of Xenoblade general success and Nintendo pushing the series which is fantastic.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I still think that Dixie Kong and Impa are about the most likely characters to get in, outside of obvious choices like the Inklings of course.

Not to piss on your parade, but I think anyone outside of Donkey & Diddy is unlikely. Having Donkey & Diddy completes what are the most important, necessary, and most recurring characters of the series. They are the faces of Donkey Kong Country and any other addition would only be generous. Dixie's only chance would be if she was added as DLC or if the next installment is likely to be a new game built off of the last one, making it easier to add newcomers without sacrificing veterans.

However, I would like to see Dixie just as much as anyone.

character of their home series, based on the playstyle of their franchise's most popular character in Smash; namely, Diddy and Sheik .

Who knows if this will change, but there has yet to be any clones or semi-clones that are based on someone who is not the face of a series (EX: Mario, Fox, Captain Falcon, Marth)

Would that initial pleasure over being right even be worth it?

I'm asking from experience, being a heavy supporter of Dr. Mario's return.
Much like how you're quick to go on the offensive when something about Young Link's potential return or lack thereof is said, I was the same about Doc. Just replace "Young Link has no reason to return because of Toon Link" with "Dr. Mario has no reason to be anything but a costume".
Just like you argued about how Young Link could get an updated moveset based on MM, I argued for how Doc could be given an updated moveset that actually takes more inspiration from his home series.
I had the same cocky attitude as you in regards to the hypothetical that he should return. Hell, when Lucina was revealed and Sakurai said what he did about her, I acted as though he had no excuse for Doc not returning as his own character instead of the alt people said he should be (which to this day I will still defend against the concept; I'd take no Doc over being nothing but an aesthetic).

But in the end, I was right about Doc being his own character instead of an alt.
Yet it's a hollow victory. Not only does Doc still have his cloned moves (with the biggest difference being he kept Mario's old Down Special), but the new distinctions in terms of stats make him not nearly as fun for me to play as he was in Melee (though I still play as him).
And his return is just a source of controversy among the Smash fanbase.

So I was right and they were wrong. But at what cost?

I hold on to Doc's return as one of the few moments where I was right in the face of people who laughed at me. But, I was the one laughing at people who thought Dark Pit & Lucina would make it in.

Not because they were clones, but I couldn't have fathomed that their differences would be enough of a basis to include them. I get pissed when people demean the importance of characters because of their similarities to others, but I guess I ended up doing the same.

Being similar does not demean characters. Its just a reason for people who don't understand game development to think they sound intelligent by criticizing something they believe nobody could disagree with.

That being similar = lazy/unimportant.

• Dr. Mario is a popular game and Mario's most well known alt persona
• Lucina is incredibly popular and relfects Marth.
• Dark Pit is also popular and makes more sense as another character than a costume

I still think Pichu needs to return. I know he sucks, but that's kind of the appeal. He's a novelty character. The concept of having another evolutionary form of Pokemon's mascot (let alone a cute baby one with an anime spin off) is more important than whether he sucks or not.

I don't care if a character sucks as long as I get to play as them. I'd advocate for them to be improved, but not removed. If you ask me, I find the addition of such a useless character to be charming. Especially when its redeeming quality is its cuteness and the fact that it's baby pikachu

Abilities should be taken into consideration, but unless your a grumpy grump, its playing as the characters that you like that should matter.

If all people cared about were abilities than this would be Dragon King The Fighting Game. Today it is Super Smash Bros. because people want to play as the characters they love.

 

[Deleted member]

I hold on to Doc's return as one of the few moments where I was right in the face of people who laughed at me. But, I was the one laughing at people who thought Dark Pit & Lucina would make it in.

Not because they were clones, but I couldn't have fathomed that their differences would be enough of a basis to include them. I get pissed when people demean the importance of characters because of their similarities to others, but I guess I ended up doing the same.

Being similar does not demean characters. Its just a reason for people who don't understand game development to think they sound intelligent by criticizing something they believe nobody could disagree with.

That being similar = lazy/unimportant.

• Dr. Mario is a popular game and Mario's most well known alt persona
• Lucina is incredibly popular and relfects Marth.
• Dark Pit is also popular and makes more sense as another character than a costume

I still think Pichu needs to return. I know he sucks, but that's kind of the appeal. He's a novelty character. The concept of having another evolutionary form of Pokemon's mascot (let alone a cute baby one with an anime spin off) is more important than whether he sucks or not.

I don't care if a character sucks as long as I get to play as them. I'd advocate for them to be improved, but not removed. If you ask me, I find the addition of such a useless character to be charming. Especially when its redeeming quality is its cuteness and the fact that it's baby pikachu

Abilities should be taken into consideration, but unless your a grumpy grump, its playing as the characters that you like that should matter.

If all people cared about were abilities than this would be Dragon King The Fighting Game. Today it is Super Smash Bros. because people want to play as the characters they love.

Heh. Once Lucina was shown and Sakurai mentioned that even having the slightest of differences gave characters their own placement on the roster as opposed to costume, I knew Doc and Pittoo would be coming.

I ironically supported all three of the clones, albeit as non-clones.

As for Pichu, I honestly wouldn't mind its return, but I am not expecting it in the slightest.
The only Pikachu look-alike I expect to see in the future is Mimikyu.

 

[Deleted member]

Guys, I have a suggestion.

What if, instead of discussing on which characters should be added or not, you make new nicely-looking rosters like the ones made some pages ago ?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Heh. Once Lucina was shown and Sakurai mentioned that even having the slightest of differences gave characters their own placement on the roster as opposed to costume, I knew Doc and Pittoo would be coming.

I ironically supported all three of the clones, albeit as non-clones.

As for Pichu, I honestly wouldn't mind its return, but I am not expecting it in the slightest.
The only Pikachu look-alike I expect to see in the future is Mimikyu.

I wouldn't mind seeing Raichu. Pikachu's final form would make for an interesting unlockable character. *sigh* whatever happened to the mystery and wonder of unlockable characters?

I understand that you can find anything on the internet, but at the very least, EARNING characters should be important.

When Mario Kart 7 was announced, I flipped my **** when they revealed Metal Mario. Most cynics would say "He's just Mario". But, what made Metal Mario so interesting for me was his inclusion in Mario Golf.

In Mario Golf, you earned Metal Mario from getting 130 Birdie Badges or something. The way he was unlocked was executed perfectly. Normal characters would be unlocked through standard measures. But, Metal Mario was a nice little treat you got for really completing the game. If he had been a totally new character, people would complain he is too difficult to unlock, but instead it was a fitting reward because it was a really neat addition that didn't leave a huge fan base high and dry. It was a special little treat, different from unlocking normal characters. You were able to play as Mario, the main character, in his popular Metal form. It wasn't just another character, it was a special kind of character.

Unfortunately, Metal Mario's appeal diminished in later. In Mario Kart 7 all you had to do was complete the Special Cup. Sounds reasonable, you pass the special cup and you get a special character. Same went for Lakitu in the lighting cup. It probably would have been more worth it, had you done something noteworthy like complete the Special Cup with 3 stars. But, since all you had to do to get him was play the game, it makes his inclusion questionable. If you unlocked him the same way you would unlock any other character, than it may as well have just been any other character.

Things got phenomenally worse in Mario Kart 8. Every character was unlocked randomly. Metal Mario could be one of your first unlocks and you didn't really have to do anything to get him. Makes you wonder why he is even there if he is just like any other character. It creates the false notion that he would have taken the place of someone more important.

It's important to execute how you unlock a character and present that character in a way that distinguishes them from the rest. The fact that you could only get Metal Mario after everyone else in Mario Golf made it clear that he was an extra surprise added after all was said and done.

In Super Smash Bros. Melee, you will notice that all of the clones are placed beside their counterparts and are not exactly lined up symmetrically with the original characters. You understood that these were extra additions. In Super Smash Bros. 4 you will notice that the full on clones (Dr. Mario, Dark Pit, & Lucina) are at the bottom in their own row. They aren't presented as if they took the place of whatever character could have been there instead, they are down in their own row as if to say "Oh, and there are also these special clone additions"

Had Dark Pit been placed next to Pit, some chump with a lack of understanding how basic game development works would jump out and say "Well, if Dark Pit wasn't there, we could have fit Viridi or something there."

Super Smash Bros for WiiU/3DS did such a horrible job of presenting unlockable characters that it was almost insulting. One should not expect that you start the game with two version of the same character. Normally you would start out with Link and then when Toon Link shows up later on you would go "Oh, there's another version of this character in the game? Isn't it nice that they added that as a reward."

Same goes for characters that share move sets. The appeal of semi-clones is that they provide a twist to a character you were once familiar with. If this was a kid's first Smash game, you wouldn't know what's what.

There is no rhyme or reason when it comes to the unlock able characters in Smash 4. You start out with every Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon character leaving next to nothing to earn or discover from that universe. When every character is available from the get-go, they kind of lose the charm they once had. It's not a good idea to have them all unlocked because you don't even know where to start.

When you unlock characters gradually, it gives you an incentive to take a break from the character you are always playing as and discover this new person that showed up. Even though you have a box full of more toys than you can shake a stick at, you are always eager to play with the new one.

Nowadays everybody wants it all from the start. Everyone wants all the information as soon as possible thanks to the internet. Nobody wants to earn anything or be surprised anymore. There was a time where you learned secrets from game guides that you never would have discovered on your own. It made the game world seem more expansive than what meets the eye. Now people go out of their way to leak information that was not meant to be presented. They are like children who would rather peek at their presents when their parents aren't looking rather than enjoy the mystery of Christmas.

Worst yet, they force it upon the rest of the world. Even if you don't visit gaming websites, you'll find this **** plastered all over Facebook & YouTube. An entire ending to a game can be spoiled by a thumbnail in a video.

That being said, even if you know the characters exist, there should be some kind of standard to make their inclusions mean something. At the very least: Clones, Obscure Retro characters, Duplicate characters (Toon Link, Sheik, ZS Samus), and characters like Mewtwo or Ganondorf, should alway be earned or unlocked to some extent.

Previous Smash games did a good job of starting you out with the most recognizable and recent characters and having you earn the more obscure ones or ones you wouldn't expect to see (Like the legendary Mewtwo). I hope we can find a way to improve this system in the future with the spoiled nature of the internet.

 

[Megadoomer]

There seems to be a few problems with having a bunch of unlockable characters. On one hand, having characters that have a lot of appeal hidden behind arbitrary conditions can be frustrating.

Take Brawl for example. A lot of people were really excited to have Mario and Sonic face off, finally having an official way to settle all of those playground debates... and then to get Sonic, you have to basically beat the lengthy Subspace Emissary mode, even though he's one of the main characters advertised on the back of the box.

Another issue would be the amount of time it takes. Having a lot of unlockable characters in Melee (relative to the roster size) was fine; there were twenty-five characters, and fourteen were unlocked from the start. Now, there's fifty-eight characters on the roster for the latest game, with more on the way.

The 3DS version had more unlockable characters than Melee did, but too many more (especially if the conditions for some are ridiculous - if someone on the 3DS version had the same unlock conditions as Mewtwo in Melee, I'm not sure if I'd be able to unlock them on my own) and people might get annoyed, especially if one of their mains from a previous game has to be unlocked before they can use them.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

There seems to be a few problems with having a bunch of unlockable characters. On one hand, having characters that have a lot of appeal hidden behind arbitrary conditions can be frustrating.

I agree that once you get to a certain amount of characters, unlockables can be tricky. I would advocate changing the system rather than throwing it out the window.

Take Brawl for example. A lot of people were really excited to have Mario and Sonic face off, finally having an official way to settle all of those playground debates... and then to get Sonic, you have to basically beat the lengthy Subspace Emissary mode, even though he's one of the main characters advertised on the back of the box.

In my opinion, Sonic, Mega Man, & Pac-Man should be available from the start seeing as they are instantly recognizable guest characters.

Another issue would be the amount of time it takes.

What about the amount of time it takes to complete classic mode with every character? Or the amount of time it takes to beat an RPG? That's what I'm saying about how nowadays people feel entitled to not have to make an effort to earn content.

This is understandable if you have a lot of friends, and you just wanna bring your copy home from gamestop and play with your friends, but if you look back at past games, Smash understood the importance of a Single-Player experience.

When the Classic Mode is nothing, but random encounters, there's no adventure mode, and all the characters are available from the get-go, what is there to really do? It becomes like standard protocol. "Here's the new game. Here's the new characters and stages."

There was so much more soul in the original Smash and love for single-players. There was an arcade-style single-player campaign. There were countless bonus stages that tested the skills of each individual character. There were new characters to discover.

Now single player amounts to random fights like: VERSUS!: Luigi, Giant Pac-Man, Sheik, Falco, Metal Little Mac, Charizard, AND Bayonetta!

Having a lot of unlockable characters in Melee (relative to the roster size) was fine; there were twenty-five characters, and fourteen were unlocked from the start. Now, there's fifty-eight characters on the roster for the latest game, with more on the way.

Make unlocking characters a faster process like Mario Kart 8 did. And make the special ones something you have to do something specific for.

The 3DS version had more unlockable characters than Melee did, but too many more (especially if the conditions for some are ridiculous - if someone on the 3DS version had the same unlock conditions as Mewtwo in Melee, I'm not sure if I'd be able to unlock them on my own) and people might get annoyed, especially if one of their mains from a previous game has to be unlocked before they can use them.

Like I said, change the system to make it more streamline. It just seems that in Smash games as of recently, they get progressively less soul put into them outside of Smash mode.

 

[Swop]

I'm not rooting for Young Link or anything, but I'd probably make him my Secondary if He was Given the Majora's Mask MoveSet involving Transformation between Deku, Goron, and Zora. Too bad Transformation characters are RIP, I would of been totally fine with 3 Links in Brawl, oddly enough.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

Despite their popularity, I doubt think any of the new Breath of the Wild characters (Reebal, Darkel, and Mifa) will be playable in Smash. They maybe important to the plot, but not to the point where you play as much as Link or follow him 24/7.

Now trophies I can see happening.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Despite their popularity, I doubt think any of the new Breath of the Wild characters (Reebal, Darkel, and Mifa) will be playable in Smash. They maybe important to the plot, but not to the point where you play as much as Link or follow him 24/7.

Completely irrelevant. The reason they won't be added is because characters don't get added for being in whatever the most recent game in a series is. If that was done for every universe in Smash, nobody important would ever get added. This isn't Pokemon or Fire Emblem.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

Completely irrelevant. The reason they won't be added is because characters don't get added for being in whatever the most recent game in a series is. If that was done for every universe in Smash, nobody important would ever get added. This isn't Pokemon or Fire Emblem.

As in Fire Emblem and Pokémon are usually the main promotional additions?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

As in Fire Emblem and Pokémon are usually the main promotional additions?

Yes. That's because the Pokemon & Fire Emblem games have a different cast of characters (or Pokemon) in every installment.

Each generation of Nintendo faans has a different Pokemon or Fire Emlem and it's a sign of respect to acknowledge kids that grow up with "Diamond & Pearl" or recognize the characters of what ever Fire Emblem is their generation.

With Mario & Zelda, every generation has the same main cast. And then characters that have already become staples through a long history like Bowser Jr. & Rosalina get added.

If every Smash game picked a random character from Mario or Zelda, for literally no other reason than because that character appears in the new game, than it would interfere with the development of characters that actually earned their place like Villager, Wii Fit Trainer, Little Mac, Rosalina, Bowser Jr, etc.

One could argue all day that Ghirahim has merits, but they will never be able to argue that he deserves the least bit priority over any of the 14 newcomers that luckily made it in.

It's not even just a matter of who is important and who's not. It's a matter of priority. I think Samurai Goroh should be added. I think he's important to F-Zero, he's Falcon's rival, and F-Zero has a long line of characters so it would be nice to have someone besides just C. Falcon.

But, when you're already struggling to get these other characters in before the deadline, S. Goroh is just out of the question.

 

[N3ON]

As @Final Smash Gamer suggested, here is a nice-looking roster. Y'all won't like it because I made a lot of cuts and picked a lot of alternate choices as opposed to popular/predicted ones. But it's nice-looking and it's my roster, so I can do what I want.
(it's not a prediction roster)

I think it'd be fun.

I'm ashamed you didn't go all the way with this N3ON. You've let all your fellow Adepts down.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

As @Final Smash Gamer suggested, here is a nice-looking roster. Y'all won't like it because I made a lot of cuts and picked a lot of alternate choices as opposed to popular/predicted ones. But it's nice-looking and it's my roster, so I can do what I want.
(it's not a prediction roster)

I think it'd be fun.

Finally, a roster that isn't bloated with Fire Emblem reps.

And there's Skull Kid and Simon? 10/10

 

[Baskerville]

No Rosalina.
Meh/10.

 

[The Smash Nerd II.0.]

Ura OMG you suck

Sorry