Double Dair - An online Smash64 Tournament (with cash prizes) SIGN-UPS CLOSED

[rjgbadger]

i lost to bcow

3-2

 

[Dext3rM.]

wow really my di looks so rare online? well this is a offline match i can barely get out of falcon u airs more easy offline than online http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KO2fmGtcEU 1:36 and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvFLVz66KdE&list=FLHtRU6GMcP6l5PdufXTJi1g 1:40 and i use a xbox 360 controller with a deadzone of 25% (default range) to play online and hori mini pad to play offline i been working verry hard mi DI and i consider my biggest advantage in this game so pls dont think my DI is altered :D

 

[Battlecow]

lost to killer 3-1

 

[NovaSmash]

Winner's bracket moving along, people in loser's bracket need to play their matches.

 

[Jesusv2]

I messaged Jeno early yesterday and he has not responded.

 

[NovaSmash]

Jeno and Mason Storm if either of you do not show up by Tuesday you will be DQ'd.

 

[Mason Storm]

Available all day, MrMarbles may not be able to play

 

[NovaSmash]

MrMarbles is online right now

 

[MrMarbles]

Mason and I will be fighting tomorrow. didnt see this till just now otherwise i would have played him while i was on

 

[¨°PÞ-§°¨ Bane]

dude you are so smart! Smash skills is a little more complicated than that my friend.

Pika should Get banned on DL.

sorry oli!

 

[Olikus]

lol2deep4u
if you don't agree with what Clubba said, you're legitimizing johns and scrubs. In this case: "I lost to grabby characters on DL, pff. but that doesn't count."

My point was its not like the best person wins every match. If you disagree with that, youre saying tiers dont exist, and all stages are equally good for every caracther.

Example player A beats player B every time when they play their mains. Last match they go hyrule, player A goes samus and player B goes fox. Player B wins barely. That doesnt mean player B suddenly become the best player.

And the same happens with pika on all the tourneys lately. Look at kero vs sensei. Sensei is so much better, but kero wins the matches with pika vs fox, cus pika is so gay on DL.

ur dumb

Good statement. I do think your arguments are a little to deep for me though. (lol)
And im not gonna tyry to get pika banned or something. I just find it annoying as a spectator on the recent tourneys when the same happens over and over. No big problem.

 

[Sangoku]

My point was its not like the best person wins every match.

The initial statement was:

So many matches were The better player loses

That's why they play a set, where the better player should win more. So I don't see the problem if the better player loses once as long as he wins the set, he's still the better player.

If you disagree with that, youre saying tiers dont exist, and all stages are equally good for every caracther.

No, disagreeing with the above would just deny the existence of variance, nothing to do with tiers and stages.

If a Kirby player who spam rolls and utilts beats my Fox on Dreamland more often than not in sets, then he's better than me. By definition. He might have no techskill, I might have sick techskill (which I don't, but that's an example), it doesn't matter. He wins, he's better. Of course, you can say he only wins because he uses Kirby and spams utilts or because he uses Pika and grabs&gimps on dreamland, etc. But these are all reasons as to why he's better. Instead of using a superiority in techskill and/or spacing, he's using a superiority in matchup, character and stage (both of which could be counterbalanced by your superiority in techskill/spacing by the way). Thing is it doesn't matter what strategy he uses (as long as it's legit, ie not unplugging your controller or other things) as long as he can beat you eventually, he is the better player. Then you could say "If I dedicated myself to Kirby/Pika as much as I did to Fox, I'd be better". Maybe it's true, but since you haven't done it, you're currently worse. I talked about this long time ago with someone else and we liked to talk about "experience" as opposed to "good". Someone might be more experienced (more knowledge, more techskill, etc.), but less good than a spamming Kirby/Pikachu.

I do understand your feeling as a spectator and it makes myself sad watching a Fox/Falcon get gimp ***** on Dreamland by a Pikachu, but that's how the game, at its competitive level is.

 

[Olikus]

The initial statement was:

That's why they play a set, where the better player should win more. So I don't see the problem if the better player loses once as long as he wins the set, he's still the better player.


No, disagreeing with the above would just deny the existence of variance, nothing to do with tiers and stages.

If a Kirby player who spam rolls and utilts beats my Fox on Dreamland more often than not in sets, then he's better than me. By definition. He might have no techskill, I might have sick techskill (which I don't, but that's an example), it doesn't matter. He wins, he's better. Of course, you can say he only wins because he uses Kirby and spams utilts or because he uses Pika and grabs&gimps on dreamland, etc. But these are all reasons as to why he's better. Instead of using a superiority in techskill and/or spacing, he's using a superiority in matchup, character and stage (both of which could be counterbalanced by your superiority in techskill/spacing by the way). Thing is it doesn't matter what strategy he uses (as long as it's legit, ie not unplugging your controller or other things) as long as he can beat you eventually, he is the better player. Then you could say "If I dedicated myself to Kirby/Pika as much as I did to Fox, I'd be better". Maybe it's true, but since you haven't done it, you're currently worse. I talked about this long time ago with someone else and we liked to talk about "experience" as opposed to "good". Someone might be more experienced (more knowledge, more techskill, etc.), but less good than a spamming Kirby/Pikachu.

I do understand your feeling as a spectator and it makes myself sad watching a Fox/Falcon get gimp ***** on Dreamland by a Pikachu, but that's how the game, at its competitive level is.

I explained it with my MU analogy. if a pika wins over my luigi, yes hes pika is better than my luigi. but if I beat him with my main, im the best player overall. That was my point. I got dozen of examples, not just kero, sensei.

Just look at apex. Isai lost to kikoushi with mario in GF. But when they played outside the tourney, isai went kirby fox and pika, and pretty much won all games.(maybe lost a few dont remember). Easy math Isai is better than kikoushi. Thats my point. IF it was unclear I appologize, but a better player can lose to a worse.

 

[Sangoku]

This is only true if you assume the losing player has a better character to pull off. I don't know why you're bringing unrelated examples, but in the current case, it was Morino vs Dexter. If a player's best character is Falcon (not saying this is Morino's case, but assuming the opposite based on nothing is weird and that's what you kinda did by saying "seeing a better player lose to a weaker") and he loses to a Pikachu, then he's worse. Of course if the first player plays a secondary/some other chars and loses, then he might be better and still lost. And if he sandbagged with his main he would have lost regardless of how better he is. I don't understand how that is relevant to the present tourney discussion where we assume every player tries to win.

 

[Olikus]

It isnt unrelevant because im not talking about just morino vs dexter. I responded to clubba saying The best player is The player who win a match. And i disagree with that statement, because smash is more complex Than that. Caracther/ MU/ stages/ dayform/ experience vs The player/ etc can all have an impact on The outcome. If I beat bear 1 out of 100 games, im not suddenly a better player Than him after my victory. Thats my whole point. The only reason I talk so much about it its because people are callling me dumb, so I felt I had to explain myself, Even though it seems you are focusing on this spesific tourney match. Were kind of discussing different things.

 

[Sangoku]

Huh your first post wasn't a response to clubba and that's the one I was mostly responding too. And you seemed to somehow back up your first post with the other posts, which I found unrelated.

Whatever, no need to argue about that, I'm done here

 

[Olikus]

Yeah I was kind of vague in my first post.

 

[clubbadubba]

Yea I meant if you beat someone in a particular matchup, you are better than them in that matchup for that game. If you consistently beat them in it, you are better than them in that matchup period. If Kero's pika beats sensei's fox consistently on DL, kero is the better player in that matchup.

 

[SheerMadness]

Not necessarily true clubba.

If some Link is getting a Pikachu to 1 stock every game on deamland but losing the majority of the matches, I seriously doubt the Pikachu is better at the match up than the Link. That match up is crazy stacked against Link. I'd say the Link is definitely better at the match up. Pikachu is just the better character on a advantageous stage.

It's not as black and white as you're making it out to be.

 

[NovaSmash]

Jeno, you need to post here by Tonight or you will be DQ'd.

 

[clubbadubba]

So necessarily true.

yea pika > link. That helps out the pika player. He's still better AT THAT MATCHUP if he wins it consistently. 1 stock better, to be exact. The link player might win if they switch characters, and then they would better AT THAT MATCHUP. I'll agree that a link almost beating a pikachu is a decent indicator that the link might be better OVERALL, but you aren't better at a particular matchup if you can't win it.

 

[SheerMadness]

100% disagree.

The Link is clearly better at the match up if he's getting Pika down to 1 stock every game, considering how naturally disadvantaged he is in that match up on dreamland.

It's like saying a Falco in melee who can barely beat a Pichu is better at the match up lol. No, he's just 30 times the character Pichu is and has a million advantages so he can still skate by despite being worse in the match up.

 

[Battlecow]

Sheer you're wrong dude let it go

Armada > hbox even if hbox is playing ness when he loses

Falcon-pika on DL is +1 for falcon anyways, stop whining about that one

fox gets a little bodied though, that's pretty true

 

[SheerMadness]

So you're going to disregard the fact that it's probably THE worst match up in the game (Link/Pika dreamland) when determining which player is better at the match up?

Sounds pretty ridiculous to me. You're both wrong IMO. But you're welcome to your opinion.

If Firo's Link took my Pika down to 1 stock every game on dreamland but I still won like 80% of the games. I'd say Firo was better at the match up for sure.

 

[Sangoku]

That's where my experience bull**** comes in handy. Firo would have more experience than you in that matchup, but you'd be better. The fact he's using a ****ty char against a good one is just one reason as to why you are better. If you wish, at the same experience level, a pika player is better than a link player by, say, +3. If the Link player manages to train more and suddenly plays close games with that pika, the pika player might still be better, but of +1 instead. Link player has more experience in that matchup, but is still worse in that matchup.

Dunno if makes sense, especially from my phone the day before an exam...

 

[thegreginator]

This is really just arguing semantics around what "better" means. It comes down to winning a game vs. beating the spread/odds. If Link barely loses to Pika on DL than the Link did "better" than expected, but I think beating your opponent is more important than beating the status quo in Smash. Especially because you're free to choose any character and no one made you play Link.

 

[Jenison]

Match is set for 6 tonight.

 

[NovaSmash]

Match is set for 6 tonight.

ok

 

[Jenison]

Also, my last match was recorded last Wednesday.

Upon the sign up, it stated that we had 1 week to complete our match from when the bracket was made/updated.

Would that not mean I have until Wednesday? If you wanted matches to go faster you should have stated so and I would have been more active.

With a week to complete I figured it was pretty lax, just saying.

 

[NovaSmash]

I just thought naturally that people would want to finish their matches as quick as possible but maybe I should have made the time limit for playing shorter. I don't want the tourney to drag on too much or else people will forget about it.

 

[Jenison]

Online atm for match. Emailed Jesus but no response as of yet.

Making myself available the rest of the night to play.

 

[Battlecow]

Yeah you should technically have the week but it's quite rude to hold up the entire tournament because you haven't hit the limit yet

like at a console tourney you wouldn't bum around holding up the bracket until the TO gave you two warnings

 

[MrMarbles]

MrMarbles beats Mason Storm 3-0

 

[Jesusv2]

Jesusv2 beats Jeno 3-0

 

[Jesusv2]

Yes yes. I've messaged him and imagine we will play soon.

 

[MrMarbles]

u should really just look for him on galaxy cuz he is always on and i dont think he comes on smashboards that much

 

[NovaSmash]

Yes yes. I've messaged him and imagine we will play soon.

Yeah, if you wanna find Wilde go on kaillera, he's there most of the time.

 

[VVilde]

Wilde beats jesusv2 3-0

 

[The Star King]

I am sorry for the bad luck with my internet. I can play any time after 3 now, or any time on weekends. I'll go on every day at night and I can also make any appointment in the afternoon.

Some of the posts that happened while I was gone hurt my brain so I'm just gonna respond to nothing. Except: **** Mint. Also: I LOVE BATTLECOW

Actually, possibly-bold prediction time, because I feel like tourneys have had a lack of self-hype lately or something: I lose to Bane this round and beat him in 2 sets in GFs. COME AT ME. Hopefully I don't get humiliated.

 

[NovaSmash]

bane is on kaillera right now