• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Does smash need money to be competitive?

popsofctown

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
2,505
Location
Alabama
Money helps reduce the attendance of the tournaments to those people who are serious about competing.

A free tournament every once in a while could be fun, but it could also end up being jam packed with a bunch of new people, and personally I wouldn't want to be in the midst of that ;|
This has nothing to do with entry fee at all, and has everything to do with venue fee. The venue fee should be set so that there is enough space and Wiis per person. It doesn't matter how many scrubs show up because they all pay a venue fee, and if the TD plans correctly that venue fee will cover a venue large enough for enough wiis to filter them out of pools in the first two or three hours.

I don't think the pot fee has much of anything to do with whether you are serious about competing. I'm serious, i know i'm going to lose, i pay the pot fee. If i were not serious, and sucked just as much, but knew i would have as much fun as all get out to go into that tournament and spam captain falcon punches, i'll spend that same pot fee to the winner to play and do that.

The opening poster isn't anti-venue fee, he's anti-pot fee.


I really support the notion. If money has to coerce someone to playing well, i bet they are horrible opponent for friendlies and checkers and life in general. There does need to be some incentive, but i agree that right now that incentive is way too high and coming way to strongly out of the players' pockets, and moreso because of tradition and the influence of top players (who are often TD's) than it is of the wishes of those players.

If the goal of the tournament is to determine who is best in the nation, there needs to be a wad of money involved. If it's for the players to enjoy the tournament, very little or no money is needed. I've seen very intense one dollar money matches.
 

Ryan-K

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 23, 2003
Messages
3,107
Location
Staten Island, NY
I really support the notion. If money has to coerce someone to playing well, i bet they are horrible opponent for friendlies and checkers and life in general. There does need to be some incentive, but i agree that right now that incentive is way too high and coming way to strongly out of the players' pockets, and moreso because of tradition and the influence of top players (who are often TD's) than it is of the wishes of those players.
Good luck trying to convince anyone over 30 minutes away to go to your tournaments then. What the hell are you talking about, most people who run tournaments aren't top players or are barely ranked rofl, alot of tournament organizers are TERRIBLE players LOLLLLLL.

I like your generalizations too, "I bet if they want money they are terrible people to play with." It's a good thing the world doesn't revolve around money or something like that, well maybe in candyland it doesn't. I guess PC Chris is a terrible person because it took him the chance of getting a return to fly across the country to play a video game. Well he is according to your logic despite the fact that I'm willing to bet you've never met the guy.
 

Stiltzskin

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 2, 2006
Messages
181
Location
What are your dreams?
Money helps reduce the attendance of the tournaments to those people who are serious about competing.
How exactly is this a beneficial thing? I'm sure everyone has varying levels of how serious they are about this game. That shouldn't determine whether or not a person can enter a tournament or not.

A free tournament every once in a while could be fun, but it could also end up being jam packed with a bunch of new people, and personally I wouldn't want to be in the midst of that ;|
Seems like a great way to expand our community to me. New people are no longer intimidated at the prospect of losing money over and over at tournaments.


All games are going to have a competitive scene, and you're going to find them at the cash prize tournaments, cause when you start making money from playing a game that's when you know you're good at it.
I believe you can tell you're good at a game when you place top 3 in tournament. You don't need money to tell you that.

You're just not going to find the same level of play at a free tournament that you would at one with a cash prize.
We don't know that since a free tournament has never been held.

I see what you're saying... but think of it this way:
Have you ever played poker without money or anything on the line? It's ridiculous and a bit boring. Takes away a lot from it.
That may be the case for some players, but there's also the players that play for the sake of having fun playing the game and the ones who play just to be known as the best.

hey mango come out to some random place in new york with absolutely no intent except for the possibility that you might have a good time

or mew2king come on down to good ol' cali forn -eye -aye to play smash brothers with no real prize

not having a prize kills competition and makes it just boring.
Yes, money is the reason for both of those players to play the game. Mind naming the reasons for the hundreds of other players who entered the tournaments.

Thank you for your opinion.

1) Without money, competition gets much less serious. Grand finals, and really any match, could end up as nonserious Falcon dittos where people just joke around. Without money, there's no real urge to actually do well. While most people at tourneys know they probably won't get top 3 and earn money, there's still that drive and hope to do so. People wouldn't care about losing as much. Losing wouldn't mean anything, because in essence you'd just be playing friendlies with everyone there.
Please re-read paragraphs 3, 4, and 5 in my opening post.

2) What superryan said. There's no point in anyone traveling for a tournament if no money is involved. Even driving like 2 hours is near pointless. Pros who would be earning like 600-2000 dollars when they traveled to the other coast would earn absolutely nothing, and they'd just be paying out of pocket for plane rides. If people who are really good at the game can't play other people who are really good at the game, there's no point to get really good at the game in the first place.
It doesn't take 600-2000 dollars to get from one coast to the other. And besides, I honestly don't believe a person deserves 2000 dollars just because they beat a group of people at a video game. Especially if that money came from players who share my same thoughts, but are "forced" to enter that tournament since they don't have another choice in a tournament experience.

If you don't have money, then you need some other incentive for people to do well, and ranking just won't cut it on a more national scale (or even statewide scale).
Why can't ranking cut it? I'm not trying to make a point, I'm just curious to hear your reasons for believing that.

Do athletes feel bad that their salaries are payed for by spectators with ridiculously overpriced tickets and food (i'm thinking of yankee stadium in particular).
I don't know the answer to this, do you?

If you want my opinion of professional sports, I highly enjoy watching them. I'm a huge fan of the Rockets, Astros, and Cowboys. Do I believe athletes are HIGHLY overpayed? Yes.

If you want free competition, that's what you can do with your friends around town or something. I know i do that sometimes when i'm smashing with some friends. Then you can brag to them about beating them because you see them so often, thus making it worth it. If you beat some random kid from half way across the country, who cares? You prolly won't even care. But if you beat him and get yourself into the money, you'd care more, and so would he, because now one of you just got costs of coming covered.
I would care if I beat someone across the country, especially if they were a top ranked player. I can understand money being your main motivation for playing, I just believe there's more players who have different reasons for playing.

Basically, just suck it up and deal with it.
This is the same mindset that prevents change in society. What if the people who influenced MLK told him this about racial segregation?

Good luck trying to convince anyone over 30 minutes away to go to your tournaments then. What the hell are you talking about, most people who run tournaments aren't top players or are barely ranked rofl, alot of tournament organizers are TERRIBLE players LOLLLLLL.

I like your generalizations too, "I bet if they want money they are terrible people to play with." It's a good thing the world doesn't revolve around money or something like that, well maybe in candyland it doesn't. I guess PC Chris is a terrible person because it took him the chance of getting a return to fly across the country to play a video game. Well he is according to your logic despite the fact that I'm willing to bet you've never met the guy.
Please don't harass other people in this thread. This is a discussion. Everyone is entitled to share their opinion.
 

Melomaniacal

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 12, 2007
Messages
2,849
Location
Tristate area
That may be the case for some players, but there's also the players that play for the sake of having fun playing the game and the ones who play just to be known as the best.
Right, but the point is that poker is a COMPLETELY different game with no money involved. As would competitive Smash.
 

Melomaniacal

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 12, 2007
Messages
2,849
Location
Tristate area
I don't believe it would change the game. It would only change the participants and their reasons for playing.
It would change the way people played it, and people would take the matches less seriously. Why not just invite a group of friends over and play? No difference.
 

Stiltzskin

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 2, 2006
Messages
181
Location
What are your dreams?
It would change the way people played it, and people would take the matches less seriously. Why not just invite a group of friends over and play? No difference.
And there's nothing wrong with that. Everyone has different reasons for playing the respective games they play. Like I've said before, I believe the players that find their reason for playing competitively not to be money need a tournament that accomodates to them.
 

Melomaniacal

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 12, 2007
Messages
2,849
Location
Tristate area
And there's nothing wrong with that. Everyone has different reasons for playing the respective games they play. Like I've said before, I believe the players that find their reason for playing competitively not to be money need a tournament that accomodates to them.
Well, why does ANY competitive sport or game have money involved?
 

Stiltzskin

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 2, 2006
Messages
181
Location
What are your dreams?
Well, why does ANY competitive sport or game have money involved?
If I was to answer that with a confident answer, I would be lying. I don't know. That is part of the reason of why I started this thread and why I want to start a series of tournaments of this nature.

If you wouldn't mind, could you give me your answer to that question?
 

Melomaniacal

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 12, 2007
Messages
2,849
Location
Tristate area
If I was to answer that with a confident answer, I would be lying. I don't know. That is part of the reason of why I started this thread and why I want to start a series of tournaments of this nature.

If you wouldn't mind, could you give me your answer to that question?
More incentive to do well?
 

Ryan-K

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 23, 2003
Messages
3,107
Location
Staten Island, NY
Yes, money is the reason for both of those players to play the game. Mind naming the reasons for the hundreds of other players who entered the tournaments.
Maybe you should ask them, I don't like to generalize and place a label on a huge group of people, unlike others.

I also like how one person saying everyone playing for money is a terrible person isn't considered as offensive as me calling him on it without direct insults lol.
 

Stiltzskin

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 2, 2006
Messages
181
Location
What are your dreams?
More incentive to do well?
Everyone has different incentives for doing well as well as different reasons for playing the game.

Btw, this isn't directed towards you but I've been told by various people that a tournament is not a tournament unless a prize is involved. I'd like to provide the definition of a tournament according to dictionary.com.

1. a trial of skill in some game, in which competitors play a series of contests.
2. a meeting for contests in a variety of sports, as between teams of different nations.

As you can see, these definitions mention nothing of a prize.

Maybe you should ask them, I don't like to generalize and place a label on a huge group of people, unlike others.

I also like how one person saying everyone playing for money is a terrible person isn't considered as offensive as me calling him on it without direct insults lol.
I haven't asked those players in particular, but I've asked other players that frequent tournaments and many have told me that money isn't the reason they attend and enter tournaments.

I'm sorry for not noticing his generalization. In my defense though, it was hard to see considering most of his post contributed towards the discussion while a majority of your post berated him.
 

AvaricePanda

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 30, 2009
Messages
1,664
Location
Indianapolis, Indiana
The other people who pay like 10-25 bucks to enter a tournament who aren't that great and know they probably won't place well?

To have fun. To play in a tournament environment with other people like you. To do friendlies, meet people, and get better at the game. A lot of people going to Genesis would go, I'd imagine, to be at the biggest Brawl/Melee tournament ever, seeing how it's a very rare opportunity, and it would be entertaining to not only be there and play people and do everything you want, but to watch top pros play in person.

It's like why people pay to go to an amusement park, zoo, or watch a movie or something. It's entertaining. The fact that it costs money doesn't really matter unless you're paying like 40 bucks for a local tournament. A large amount of people don't mind paying to get in a tournament like that.

And also, most random scrubs don't travel via airplane/cross-country bus to go to a huge national tournament. Most people from the MW/EC going to Genesis are really good players. The people who aren't as good are coming from around the area, and that applies to most fairly large sized tournaments.

So really, the vast majority of people don't mind paying and putting money in the pot for a tournament, even when they don't think they have a good chance of winning. However, take away the money, and there really is no drive to get better. People who are at the top and really good have no point in traveling. Yeah, they can prove that they're the best, but then they're paying hundreds of dollars to travel across the nation for a tournament. It wouldn't be any different than getting together with local friends and playing. If you're that good, what's the point of winning when you get absolutely nothing for it?

When people split money in tournaments, they don't always play seriously then. And they're still getting money. Imagine if people got no money for tournaments? You'd hardly get a serious match. Plus, TOs wouldn't be able to pay for the costs of the venue fee and all.

Smash really does need money to have a large competitive community, or even moderately sized, or even have one at all.

Smash doesn't really have sponsors...so yeah. TOs can't pay directly out of pocket for the pot...the only solution is for the players to pay for the pot. It's been working so far with the huge majority of people not complaining, so there's no need to risk changing it.
 

Ismael

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 10, 2005
Messages
534
Location
Las Vegas (lol), Nevada
A tournament without money isn't a real tournament. Only low calibur people will come. Only one will win, and what does he win? Nothing. And rankings aren't recorded and don't matter in a quick, no cost no prize scrub tourney. If there isn't a prize, then don't bother hosting a "tournament". It's just a gathering of people to play, a.k.a a "smashfest".

Get a venue, have people come at no cost, and just play.
 

Stev

Smash Ace
Joined
May 11, 2008
Messages
810
Location
Cal Poly / Davis, CA
I think another way to look at this is to see how many people get paid. Usually its top 3. Therefore, usually under 10% of participants get money, yet look at how many people show up. Would you call that money based? Ya, the "same" people get it over and over again, but that enables them to move around to a bigger region. Because they're better, they get to play better people, etc. It all makes sense to me.
 

Stiltzskin

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 2, 2006
Messages
181
Location
What are your dreams?
To have fun. To play in a tournament environment with other people like you. To do friendlies, meet people, and get better at the game. A lot of people going to Genesis would go, I'd imagine, to be at the biggest Brawl/Melee tournament ever, seeing how it's a very rare opportunity, and it would be entertaining to not only be there and play people and do everything you want, but to watch top pros play in person.

It's like why people pay to go to an amusement park, zoo, or watch a movie or something. It's entertaining. The fact that it costs money doesn't really matter unless you're paying like 40 bucks for a local tournament. A large amount of people don't mind paying to get in a tournament like that.

And also, most random scrubs don't travel via airplane/cross-country bus to go to a huge national tournament. Most people from the MW/EC going to Genesis are really good players. The people who aren't as good are coming from around the area, and that applies to most fairly large sized tournaments.
I don't have a problem with large money tournaments. I believe there needs to be a healthy mix of money tournaments and free tournaments. I understand players want to be compensated for such a large trip, though I don't believe they should be compensated as much as they are. I also believe if compensation is a real reason for pot money, then TOs would spread the prize money across more top placings, instead of giving it all to first place practically.

So really, the vast majority of people don't mind paying and putting money in the pot for a tournament, even when they don't think they have a good chance of winning. However, take away the money, and there really is no drive to get better. People who are at the top and really good have no point in traveling. Yeah, they can prove that they're the best, but then they're paying hundreds of dollars to travel across the nation for a tournament. It wouldn't be any different than getting together with local friends and playing. If you're that good, what's the point of winning when you get absolutely nothing for it?
That's why I believe the occasional large money tournament should be held. Though the amount of pot money and how it is distributed isn't something I agree with.

When people split money in tournaments, they don't always play seriously then. And they're still getting money. Imagine if people got no money for tournaments? You'd hardly get a serious match. Plus, TOs wouldn't be able to pay for the costs of the venue fee and all.
If people don't play seriously in a free tournament where the only thing at stake is your rank and reputation, then it only shows that both players only play the game for money.

Smash really does need money to have a large competitive community, or even moderately sized, or even have one at all.
I agree, but only to a certain extent.

I think another way to look at this is to see how many people get paid. Usually its top 3. Therefore, usually under 10% of participants get money, yet look at how many people show up. Would you call that money based? Ya, the "same" people get it over and over again, but that enables them to move around to a bigger region.
I believe those people show up because they want a fun, competitive experience and I believe that could be achieved without them having to give up so much money to the better players.

Because they're better, they get to play better people, etc. It all makes sense to me.
I agree, they should be able to play the better people. But it doesn't necessarily have to come out of the other player's pockets.
 

Xyro77

Unity Ruleset Committee Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2003
Messages
18,042
Location
Houston,Tx
A tournament without money isn't a real tournament.
Really? You mean to tell me when you were younger and played sports(assuming you did) your team won a tournament and collected money? Ok dont bother answering that because i know the answer is "no,sir. i didnt win money,sir". But guess what, you still played and you still enjoyed it! SO that sports tournament didnt need money for you to enjoy or still take it competitively.

THAT IS THE POiNT!!!!!!!

Stiltz is trying to get people just to simply CONSIDER throwing or attending a "no money" event. Hes NOT proving its the ABSOLUTE BEST WAY to play or the ABSOLUTE BEST type of tournament. He just wants you to try it and realize money DOESNT ALWAYS make a tournament more fun or more competitive.
 

Morningstar

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 2, 2009
Messages
205
Location
The Hood, TX
Because I'm ****ing broke and constantly put all the money I can muster into tourneys (that I perform mediocre to terrible at) and gas to get to tourneys, a tourney minus money would be a nice change of pace even if it only took place once a month or something.

I'll support a tournament without money. I know I'd feel a lot less pressure knowing I won't gain or lose anything, I'd just have fun. :]
 

RT

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 16, 2005
Messages
9,673
Location
...
NNID
Rockettrainer
3DS FC
4038-6677-8162
I believe going to tournaments is the only true way of getting better.

Playing with friends? Yeah, you might get a little better, but then you might not try anything new because you can use the same tricks over and over and your friends might fall for them over and over.

Playing at a smashfest? Yeah, you'll be able try out new techniques on people you don't play as often, but smashfests only have a small number of people. Also, people tend to goof around/not play 100% serious at smashfests.

Tournaments are the true test of a player. You play under stress both physical and mental. There is no goofing around. One mistake could cost a match. Suddenly, that random SD you did in friendlies last week can mean the difference between advancing in winners or being sent to losers. You realize that every decision you make while playing has consequences and you have to think about your moves and options.

Playing a best of 3 set against an opponent can be intense. A best of 5 is even more stress. And playing in grand finals? I think most people can agree that it can be a true test of endurance because of the potential of playing 10 matches (assuming two sets, both best of 5). And since average Brawl matches last around 3-5 minutes, that's a potential one hour of gameplay. That's a lot Brawl just for one set. And not to mention the amount of time you spend on previous matches. By the time you reach the end, you might be mentally exhausted.

But what about a money-free tournament? Does it still inspire people to do better? That depends on you, the player. Only YOU can decide whether it is worth the time or not. Only YOU can decide whether you want to win or not. Face it, no one likes to lose, even if it is just friendlies. Even in a money-free tournament, you would still not WANT to lose. It's just a psychological thing...no one likes losing. Humans are programmed like that. I have yet to meet someone who LIKES losing. You'll still try, but there is no monetary consequence for losing. You can reflect on what you did wrong and hopefully learn something before a money tournament comes along.

Also, many people go to tournaments for the people there. Let's be honest, a tournament is not fun because of the tournament itself. It's the people at the tournament that make it fun.

TL:DR version-I think it's a good idea to keep people on their game and for people who want to do better without having to sacrifice money every time in order to improve.
 

Ismael

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 10, 2005
Messages
534
Location
Las Vegas (lol), Nevada
Really? You mean to tell me when you were younger and played sports(assuming you did) your team won a tournament and collected money? Ok dont bother answering that because i know the answer is "no,sir. i didnt win money,sir". But guess what, you still played and you still enjoyed it! SO that sports tournament didnt need money for you to enjoy or still take it competitively.
When I said tournament I meant BRAWL tournament! Hence why I'm on ****ing SWF, and that's what this thread is about. A BRAWL tournament needs a money prize (anything else like a trophy or something would be lol) to be counted as an actual tourney.

But, of course, you had to generalize it just to prove me wrong. >_>
 

Ryan-K

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 23, 2003
Messages
3,107
Location
Staten Island, NY
Really? You mean to tell me when you were younger and played sports(assuming you did) your team won a tournament and collected money? Ok dont bother answering that because i know the answer is "no,sir. i didnt win money,sir". But guess what, you still played and you still enjoyed it! SO that sports tournament didnt need money for you to enjoy or still take it competitively.
On the other hand you usually get a trophy or a plaque or something for winning anyway because small children usually have little need for money, not to mention you can also get small sponsorships for your field or your team if you keep playing and keep doing good in order to maintain your supplies or field/court/coaches job/whatever, so while you don't directly win money you still get a plaque or a trophy or something, so it's still a prize. So are you telling me you're willing to take money out of your own pocket to make a trophy worth winning? By the way good luck getting anyone outside of Texas go to your tournaments again with promises of a big shiny cup.

PS: I love the stigma that people who play for money are bad people or competitors or something that's so heavily implied in this topic by like every other person.
 

Xyro77

Unity Ruleset Committee Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2003
Messages
18,042
Location
Houston,Tx
When I said tournament I meant BRAWL tournament! Hence why I'm on ****ing SWF, and that's what this thread is about. A BRAWL tournament needs a money prize (anything else like a trophy or something would be lol) to be counted as an actual tourney.

But, of course, you had to generalize it just to prove me wrong. >_>
Relax. My point was simply proving that at one point in your life you played/competed for FUN and not for the money/trophie(sure you wanted a trophie but it was your DRIVE, you know?) SO why not give it a shot in brawl? Im not in ANY WAY forcing you to, im simply asking just give it a shot. You MIGHT like it.

On the other hand you usually get a trophy or a plaque or something for winning anyway because small children usually have little need for money, not to mention you can also get small sponsorships for your field or your team if you keep playing and keep doing good in order to maintain your supplies or field/court/coaches job/whatever, so while you don't directly win money you still get a plaque or a trophy or something, so it's still a prize. So are you telling me you're willing to take money out of your own pocket to make a trophy worth winning? By the way good luck getting anyone outside of Texas go to your tournaments again with promises of a big shiny cup.

PS: I love the stigma that people who play for money are bad people or competitors or something that's so heavily implied in this topic by like every other person.
Your little "PS" was not needed. I was not IN ANY WAY hinting that people who play for money are bad people. YOU CHOOSE to think that way.

Trophy or plaque is fine if you place 1st-3rd in a brawl event. Its the MONEY we are talking about. Again, give it a shot(im not asking OOS players to spend 800$ to fly and play in an event that offers no re-payment for your flight costs) in your own town or region.
 

Ryan-K

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 23, 2003
Messages
3,107
Location
Staten Island, NY
the ps wasnt directed towards you it was for others sorry i didnt clarify

also a local tournament with no money is called a smashfest what the hell lol >_>
 

Stiltzskin

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 2, 2006
Messages
181
Location
What are your dreams?
the ps wasnt directed towards you it was for others sorry i didnt clarify

also a local tournament with no money is called a smashfest what the hell lol >_>
Every smashfest I've been to has never held a structured tournament during the fest. We've done crews, but that's about it.
 

Ryan-K

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 23, 2003
Messages
3,107
Location
Staten Island, NY
a good few smashfest ive been to have used tio for like 8 man tournaments for the hell of it

just because you haven't done something yet doesn't mean noone else has.
 

Stiltzskin

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 2, 2006
Messages
181
Location
What are your dreams?
a good few smashfest ive been to have used tio for like 8 man tournaments for the hell of it

just because you haven't done something yet doesn't mean noone else has.
I plan to throw an event much larger than an 8 man tournament. I will require a much larger venue and more set-ups than a normal smashfest could provide.
 

ThatGuy

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 26, 2005
Messages
3,089
Location
Laval-Ouest, Quebec, Canada
Well, the only reason money is required to make smash competitive is because it holds value universally to all (or at least the majority) of us. It would be just as competitive if we all had something greater to play for, such as our lives.
 

lusiris

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 30, 2008
Messages
117
Location
Tucson, AZ
I host a tournament every month in Grand Junction, CO and we have tried many different methods of tournaments and our community likes the idea of both a free and cash tournament. They enjoy having the competition without the stress because of there being no cash involved and they enjoy having a cash tournament where everything is on the line and if you win you have a giant sense of accomplishment and cash in your pocket. So a free tournament is a great idea and it works generally well with drawing people and getting a community together. They have fun and get to learn how our tournament scene works and they can get pumped up for the next cash tournament. So go for the no cash tournament, it works well and if you can get it at a college and have no venue charge then its even better.
 

Stiltzskin

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 2, 2006
Messages
181
Location
What are your dreams?
I host a tournament every month in Grand Junction, CO and we have tried many different methods of tournaments and our community likes the idea of both a free and cash tournament. They enjoy having the competition without the stress because of there being no cash involved and they enjoy having a cash tournament where everything is on the line and if you win you have a giant sense of accomplishment and cash in your pocket. So a free tournament is a great idea and it works generally well with drawing people and getting a community together. They have fun and get to learn how our tournament scene works and they can get pumped up for the next cash tournament. So go for the no cash tournament, it works well and if you can get it at a college and have no venue charge then its even better.
Thank you. It's good to know this idea has had success.

It would be just as competitive if we all had something greater to play for, such as our lives.
Start a thread. Sounds like a good idea to me. :laugh:
 

Jack Kieser

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 11, 2008
Messages
2,961
Location
Seattle, WA
You know, Stiltz, I heard the exact same stuff from SWF when I asked why the only way Smash could be played competitively was without items. Personally, I think it's all a load of crap. "Tournaments without cash prizes aren't real tournaments?" "No cash prize means the tournament will be flooded with only noob players?" "Good players won't come to a tournament without a cash pot?"

That's all a load of crap.

You know what, I commend you for:

A ) bringing this up. As someone who is a TO and DOES suck at the game (lolz), it isn't fun to HAVE to pay money to play a game with someone seriously (and no, you can't always do that at home; if I try to play seriously with my friends, they get frustrated and leave, and I don't want to hear 'then find better friends', either), especially if you know that your money is going to help someone's travel expenses. Hell, I have to travel, too. Why not have a "travel pot" that is distributed between all traveling players (based on distance traveled)?

B ) wanting to try it yourself. Lord knows when I brought up stuff, all I ever heard was "well, why don't you do it yourself?" That ended up being the catalyst for me being a TO. One crappy thing about the nets (or maybe just SWF) is that people keep wanting to shift responsibility to others, so instead of a lot of people trying something for the betterment of everyone, they expect one person to do all the work. Part of it is conservatism and not wanting you to succeed for fear of change (they want that cash pot, too, you know). Part of it is laziness. If I ever get enough time again to host another tournament, I'll run it with only a venue fee, just for you, Stiltz.

Seriously, people. Stop making excuses and admit that the only reason you think that tournaments HAVE to have cash prizes to be legit is because you are GREEDY, and you want that cash. Rankings are a TOTALLY legit reason to have a tournament, and if Ankoku is any example, this site is perfectly suited for keeping accurate rankings.
 

Dark Sonic

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 10, 2006
Messages
6,021
Location
Orlando Florida
Just fyi, I'm more than willing to pay 25 bucks if it means it can make M2K, Mango, PC Chris, and a bunch of other top level players come to the tournament. In addition to having a full 12+ hours of smashing in a cool venue.

Free tournaments are cool on the local level. But I feel that tournaments with money are not only pefectly fine, but I find them more exciting than tournaments based on rankings. I frankly couldn't care less about some stupid rankings system (and there are surely others who wouldn't as well), so I just wouldn't get the same kind of rush as when I know that I actually have a shot at winning some money. When I'm nearing the end of the tournament and know that if I just win two more matches you'll make double what I paid to enter....it feels great. Sure I know that plenty of people would still play seriously if it was just for reputation and not money, but I personally would not have the same kind of enjoyment of the game. Even if I do play seriously I just wouldn't have as much fun during the match (I personally like tournament matches much, much more than friendlies)
 

Stiltzskin

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 2, 2006
Messages
181
Location
What are your dreams?
You know, Stiltz, I heard the exact same stuff from SWF when I asked why the only way Smash could be played competitively was without items. Personally, I think it's all a load of crap. "Tournaments without cash prizes aren't real tournaments?" "No cash prize means the tournament will be flooded with only noob players?" "Good players won't come to a tournament without a cash pot?"

That's all a load of crap.

You know what, I commend you for:

A ) bringing this up. As someone who is a TO and DOES suck at the game (lolz), it isn't fun to HAVE to pay money to play a game with someone seriously (and no, you can't always do that at home; if I try to play seriously with my friends, they get frustrated and leave, and I don't want to hear 'then find better friends', either), especially if you know that your money is going to help someone's travel expenses. Hell, I have to travel, too. Why not have a "travel pot" that is distributed between all traveling players (based on distance traveled)?

B ) wanting to try it yourself. Lord knows when I brought up stuff, all I ever heard was "well, why don't you do it yourself?" That ended up being the catalyst for me being a TO. One crappy thing about the nets (or maybe just SWF) is that people keep wanting to shift responsibility to others, so instead of a lot of people trying something for the betterment of everyone, they expect one person to do all the work. Part of it is conservatism and not wanting you to succeed for fear of change (they want that cash pot, too, you know). Part of it is laziness. If I ever get enough time again to host another tournament, I'll run it with only a venue fee, just for you, Stiltz.

Seriously, people. Stop making excuses and admit that the only reason you think that tournaments HAVE to have cash prizes to be legit is because you are GREEDY, and you want that cash. Rankings are a TOTALLY legit reason to have a tournament, and if Ankoku is any example, this site is perfectly suited for keeping accurate rankings.
This really meant a lot to me. Thank you for the support, Jack Kieser. I was trying to think of another tourney to throw during my event and I want to make it an ISP now. :)

Just fyi, I'm more than willing to pay 25 bucks if it means it can make M2K, Mango, PC Chris, and a bunch of other top level players come to the tournament. In addition to having a full 12+ hours of smashing in a cool venue.

Free tournaments are cool on the local level. But I feel that tournaments with money are not only pefectly fine, but I find them more exciting than tournaments based on rankings. I frankly couldn't care less about some stupid rankings system (and there are surely others who wouldn't as well), so I just wouldn't get the same kind of rush as when I know that I actually have a shot at winning some money. When I'm nearing the end of the tournament and know that if I just win two more matches you'll make double what I paid to enter....it feels great. Sure I know that plenty of people would still play seriously if it was just for reputation and not money, but I personally would not have the same kind of enjoyment of the game. Even if I do play seriously I just wouldn't have as much fun during the match (I personally like tournament matches much, much more than friendlies)
I believe everyone is entitled to their own reason for playing this game. Thank you for sharing yours while not belittling others.
 

Binx

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Messages
4,038
Location
Portland, Oregon
I personally play for pride more than money, but I don't give it my all in friendlies every time because its a lot of effort for something that will essentially mean nothing, you pretty much know who the better player is before a friendly anyways.

What is really great about having money involved is that it brings competition from further away, they know that if they win it was worth their time and gas money to come down, that also brings other people into the mix that want a shot to play vs those better people that were traveling. Money being involved actually makes the entire game better because it gives a large group reason to get together to smash. Genesis is gonna cost almost $80 but its easily going to have hundreds of competitors from all over the united states and a few top players from europe too.
 

popsofctown

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
2,505
Location
Alabama
The very legitimate opinions of the people who enjoy matches with money on the line brings up a relevant tangential point: doesn't the customary 70, 20, 10 split rob lower level players of the greater excitement people like- dark sonoc, was it? - enjoy. Tournaments with good attendance garuntee me a placement below 3rd, empirical evidence shows it. I practice the game, have since release very hard, pay an entry fee, and travel to get to tournaments. Don't I deserve an experience just as exciting as a great player like chudat or bum? (totally random selections there )
A money split that offered a monetary incentive would not only distribute this added excitement to every player in the tournament but also to every
Match.
 

SK919

Deal with it
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
846
Location
wilmington, North Carolina
I'm not sure if this was mentioned. Japanese traditional fighting games played in arcades are free play. The players win absolutely no money at all. There is more character variety and more skill displayed there than in America by a high degree.

The players still travel and show America whats up at evo world every year (although last year we did ok).

If you take away the money there is only passion. However, you could argue that it's easier to get around in japan...
 

Stiltzskin

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 2, 2006
Messages
181
Location
What are your dreams?
I'm not sure if this was mentioned. Japanese traditional fighting games played in arcades are free play. The players win absolutely no money at all. There is more character variety and more skill displayed there than in America by a high degree.

The players still travel and show America whats up at evo world every year (although last year we did ok).

If you take away the money there is only passion. However, you could argue that it's easier to get around in japan...
Yea, considering Japan is smaller than some of our states. :)

But your post does prove a valuable point in that people can still be competitive at a high level of play without the goal of monetary gain.

I never knew that about Japan's scene, thanks for the info.
 
Top Bottom