Do you think anything is "cheap?"

[mjsdawg]

OP EDITED: TOPIC NOW FOLLOWS AS BELOW

What does the smash community think about the issue of cheap moves. Is anything "cheap" and if it is should it be banned from tournaments? Some things are extremely overpowered and no one will argue against that but is anything cheap enough to the extent of being banned? The best example I can think of is Fox's Shine in Melee vs. IC's freeze glitch. Shine was increidbly powerful but not considered bannable. IC's freeze glitch, although probably extremely hard to pull off on an active opponent was still banned.

Some hot issues currently:
-D3 Standing in Place Infinite
-D3 Moving Chain Grab
-D3 Infinite Against a Wall
-Falco Moving Chain Grab
-Infinite Down Tilts (against wall)
-Laser Locking

-Are any of these things, (or anything else in your opinion), cheap?
-Are they cheap enough as to not be used in tournaments? I'm talking on the level of wobbling/Freeze Glitching in Melee.
-Anything extra that comes to mind.

*For a very good definition of cheap (in my opinion) go to page 6 of this thread. Post 87 by CanadianPimp provides a very fair definition. I add on to it a little more on page 7, post 91.

-mjsdawg

 

[Morrigan]

SNAKE'S JAB


(It's just too god for a jab )

 

[acv]

try beating him with his own character.he wont say his own character is cheap.btw every character has something that people like him will consider cheap.i would make a list but i am going to sleep.

 

[Luigi player]

He's just like some of those people that find their own reasons why they lost. He just sucks and can't handle it.

Using his character is a nice idea, lol. He probably won't complain then.

 

[hOmeb0i]

beating him with his own character is a good idea. This is more in the lines of "If you can't handle the heat, don't play with fire" kinda thing. Knowing how to counter cheapness evolves the game, thats how i think of it, the moment my friends go cheap on me, ill try everything to counter that. I don't complain. And tell your friend he's being a *****

 

[Edds]

just ignore him. he'll proberly calling you cheap untill you use someone like ganondorf or luigi

 

[Mobbin]

What character does he play?
Just tell him what's cheap about HIS character >> I'm sure you'll find something.
And everytime he uses that character tell him how cheap he is and remind him of his lack of skill.

greetz

 

[Brainiac_man]

Well, the only things that are actually cheap (going by the definition of cheap) are infinite chain-grabs.

As for your problem, you're not at a tournament, if chain grabbing angers your friend, don't do it, you shouldn't have to, you aren't in a hurry to win or anything. Play ditto matches until he agrees to accept your skill for what it is, instead of blaming "cheap" characters (start at Mario, and play dittos until you reach Sonic)

 

[momochuu]

He's just one of the people that can't handle it when they lose. Even if they lose to a good player.

Just beat him with his own character like a couple of people have already said.

 

[x.Ta.Z]

It also depends who he uses. Advise him to try G&W against your Lucario; Lucario gets demolished. Out-prioritized and Oil Panic'd.
You can go on about all the things you talked about. In my opinion, nothing is cheap (other than DDD's chain grab against a wall)
Tell him to think of it like Rock-Paper-Scissors. If you're using paper and he's using rock, he shouldn't complain, he needs to switch to scissors. Or be one sharp rock.

 

[ROOOOY!]

His mum is cheap.
Couldn't resist, sorry.

Dedede's chaingrab, and not much else really.

 

[Devil7]

yeah my friend kept complaining how ganondorf was cheap and he uses mario. So i picked mario three stocked him and he shut up.

 

[Oi Kyon]

He sure hasn't seen IC's chaingrab. >____>

 

[Mista Sinista]

Tell your friend to grow some balls then kick them.


My friend's been *****ing a lot lately too, even though I win over 90% of the time with like 10 characters. Meh whatever.

 

[Tyr_03]

Nothing is cheap. Winning is all that matters.

 

[br4n]

play to win.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Infinite combo/grabs
Only thingthat's bothered me.
Even then its not a major issue.

 

[LuLLo]

http://www.sirlin.net/

Those are really good articles and should give some answers ..

 

[Mann]

Nothing is cheap. Winning is all that matters.

Ta da. Magic happens.

 

[dj_pwn1423]

Well, the only things that are actually cheap (going by the definition of cheap) are infinite chain-grabs.

As for your problem, you're not at a tournament, if chain grabbing angers your friend, don't do it, you shouldn't have to, you aren't in a hurry to win or anything. Play ditto matches until he agrees to accept your skill for what it is, instead of blaming "cheap" characters (start at Mario, and play dittos until you reach Sonic)

still not doing the things you normally do is just like sandbagging , and that might not be enjoyable to him at all.

but yeah

ditto him a bunch, win, and wait till the awkward silence passes.

 

[FS Fantom]

"he flips out every time he gets hit with a Gordo when I do side+B with D3."

I do that too.

Always come at the most inopportune times

 

[swimmamanBKM]

Nothing is cheap...theres always a way to counter a cheap move. i don't think nintendo would put anything into this series unless they thought about it seriously.ex. if it's a shield type move, grab them, throw them up , and use an aerial. if it's an offensive move, just dodge, air dodge, or roll out of the way, then find an opening or weak spot.

 

[Sliq]

It is highly dependent on your definition of "cheap."

If you mean something that is brokenly unfair, I would say there are some cheao things in Brawl. that isn't to say you shouldn't use these tactics, it is to point out a VAST error on part of the programmers (D3 and Falco chaingrab, Ness infinite re-grab, etc.).

If you mean cheap as in easy to preform yet effective, there are a lot of things like that in
Brawl. Projectile spam, up tilt combos, chain grabs, etc.

The problem with cheap is that people see cheap as unbeatable, as opposed to just really good, and like to make themselves feel better by not using these tactics. They like to think that because they are doing "hard" stuff they are better, and attribute cheapness to easy to do things that are highly effective.

Personally, I hate the chain grabs, mostly because you can't do anything about them. At least in Melee you could mix up your DI and force them to react. In Brawl, its always the same, requiring less ability.

Things are cheap, but there isn't any point in complaining about them. Things are inherently unfair just because of character differences.

Very few things are broken, but some thigns are seemingly over powered.

 

[FS Fantom]

"i don't think nintendo would put anything into this series unless they thought about it seriously."

Tripping.

 

[Rune_Ocarina]

I know how the OP feels. My friend (who mains Falco) does the same amount of complaining when I use Zero Suit Samus. Saying it's cheap to start out with items - while he complains about the Shine changes that were made to Falco in Brawl. He's good with a Falco, but it's a shame to see such a good player complain so much. I don't even know how to beat him without him getting pissed enough that he'll just quit one day; but at the same time I don't want to lose intentionally to make him feel good.

Such a pain.

 

[J0RDY]

Your mate is a sore looser .
Firstly, shine spiking is not cheap, there is a lot of skill in gimping with it. Secondly, Moves (Like Lucarios Aura Sphere) Are there to even out a players game play. Oh, and as SwimmamanBKM said, theres always a way to counter. If you can't do that and have to resort to excuses (Like me XD) then it's your problem, not the problem of the person who's owning you.

Oh, I do have one cheap move I hate, Pit's Fudging Halo!

 

[Resident_Smash_Genius]

Nothing is cheap, play to win, your friend is a scrub. Tell him that, and he might stop. Maybe.

 

[Yukiwarashi]

Your friend is a sore loser, plain and simple. That list of complaints is beyond ridiculous. You should just tell him not to play the game if he's going to complain about every single character you use. I'd love to hear which characters he plays as.

 

[Pizzaguylol]

I know the feeling. Just play how you want to play. You won, he didn't. Nothing is cheap.

 

[swimmamanBKM]

lol ask him what char. you can use, then own him with it sooo bad :D

 

[MyReincarnation]

Three things on wi-fi. Ike's Fsmash spamming, Pit's Forward B spamming, and pikachu's thunder. I have no problems with these moves playing 1v1.

 

[Devil7]

Your friend is only mad because he sucks and can't find a way around the problem so he insults you to make him feel better. WOW since when did SWF start giving therapy session to victimized friends of scrubs.

 

[Golem the Stern Father]

The only thing that I can determine as "cheap", would obviously be Ness/Lucas infinate re-grab.
Other concepts like Ike's power, Snake's hitboxes, one can avoid and counter. How can you counter the infinate re-grab? If anything was cheap, it would be this.

 

[AlexX]

The only thing that comes to mind when I think "cheap" is "inescapable death combos", which makes me very glad that Smash doesn't have any of those (in Brawl or Melee, at least... I don't remember Smash 64 too well).

 

[Mike_Echoes]

There is no such thing as cheapness. Johnning is cheap

 

[masterspeaks]

Tell your friend he is being a scrub. Then proceed to **** him without mercy, eventually he will figure out a way to get around the "cheap" stuff or stop playing altogether. Refer him to this:
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=162609

 

[Tristan_win]

Yes there is a lot of cheap and gay **** characters can do to each other in Brawl but complaining about them only makes you a John as everyone has to deal with the same problem but we all learn how to get around and do deal with it.

Next time your friend say something is cheap or gay just say to him "Why don't you fight cheap with cheap?"

If he says something like "I don't want to use cheapness to win"

Then ask him why he doesn't play to win

 

[paSTAR]

I discuss this sometimes with my friends. I coined the turn "cheaping".

You see, cheaping is allowed, cheating is not. Seeing as you can't cheat at all, everything is allowed.

 

[PCHU]

The chaingrabbing sucks.
It's sort of unfair, as your only real option is to not get grabbed.
That and infinites are the only really cheap things existing in Brawl.

Spamming is entirely different.
When it comes down to it, you suck(PLEASE DON'T TAKE THAT THE WRONG WAY, talking to stubborn complainers), and they utilize their attacks often.
It's their style.
Trash them.
Along with ROB.

 

[Recognize]

Hes just johnin out his ***, my friend is exactly like this. If he doesent like that he loses then he can get the hell out of my house.