Steck
Smash Journeyman
Nothing is cheap except for any move that happens to kill you
adn marth issoooo ghey!!1!!1
adn marth issoooo ghey!!1!!1
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Do you think anything is "cheap?"
- Thread starter mjsdawg
- Start date
Grunt
Smash Master
Beat him with captain falcon. That'll show him.
The Real Gamer
Smash Hero
Nobody wants to read dumb posts like yours. Just leave.
Kraut
Smash Apprentice
dont play with him anymore <.< seriously why play with someone if all they do is whine and ***** about you being cheap? or if you really want to play ask what character you can use and beat him with it. Or tell him to post here asking if the move is cheap and see what happens =DD
C@sH Mooney
Smash Master
Use the ****ing random box. If he johns anymore just tell him hes bad. gg
Nowaytoeatatater
Smash Ace
McDonald's toys are really cheap.
dj_pwn1423
Smash Journeyman
Nowaytoe
why are your postss so pointless...
<_<
why are your postss so pointless...
<_<
thanks for all the responses everyone.
Some things to clarify/add:
The problem isn't that I always win with my characters. My friend is also very good and I would say we are close in skill level. He thinks that the only reason this is the case though is because I use "cheap" characters and moves. His mains are: DK and Pokemon Trainer. He also plays some Wario and Zelda, none of which are "cheap" in his eyes. However as I posted earlier, he thinks all of my characters along with half their movesets are cheap.
Also, I've already told him about counterpicking characters and that every character/combo/move has a counter to it. He doesn't really care. I've also told him he's just making excuses. He responds with, "The fact is that you suck." If I tell him he sucks he doesn't care and thinks otherwise. I've told him you won't find a single person at a tournament who WON'T CG a character off the edge of Delphino Plaza with D3 or Falco and he counters with, "but the difference is those people don't rely on that one move. you rely on only one move to win a game." Literally nothing I say to him gets through.
I could try beating him with his own characters like some of you suggested but that will just end his "you have no skill argument." He will still complain about cheapness when I go back to my mains.
On a different note, if I could get some opinions on the list of "cheapness" or any other counterarguments you guys could think of to settle this I would appreciate it.
Thanks again for all the responses so far.
-mjsdawg
Some things to clarify/add:
The problem isn't that I always win with my characters. My friend is also very good and I would say we are close in skill level. He thinks that the only reason this is the case though is because I use "cheap" characters and moves. His mains are: DK and Pokemon Trainer. He also plays some Wario and Zelda, none of which are "cheap" in his eyes. However as I posted earlier, he thinks all of my characters along with half their movesets are cheap.
Also, I've already told him about counterpicking characters and that every character/combo/move has a counter to it. He doesn't really care. I've also told him he's just making excuses. He responds with, "The fact is that you suck." If I tell him he sucks he doesn't care and thinks otherwise. I've told him you won't find a single person at a tournament who WON'T CG a character off the edge of Delphino Plaza with D3 or Falco and he counters with, "but the difference is those people don't rely on that one move. you rely on only one move to win a game." Literally nothing I say to him gets through.
I could try beating him with his own characters like some of you suggested but that will just end his "you have no skill argument." He will still complain about cheapness when I go back to my mains.
On a different note, if I could get some opinions on the list of "cheapness" or any other counterarguments you guys could think of to settle this I would appreciate it.
Thanks again for all the responses so far.
-mjsdawg
Grunt
Smash Master
Like i said, use Falcon. he is so bad, that if you win, he can't do anything about it.
yeah I think I will do something like that. I'd still like to play my mains though and that's where the problem is, I don't think he will ever stop complaining about cheapness, even if I beat him with falcon
Ultimately what I would like to know is if the smash community thinks whether or not any of the things on the list are cheap? or anything else in the game for that matter. and if so, should any of them be banned in tournaments or looked down on etc. the overall smash community's opinions mean more to me than one bias view so that was the whole point of this thread. (although I appreciate the sympathy and advice too =D)
Ultimately what I would like to know is if the smash community thinks whether or not any of the things on the list are cheap? or anything else in the game for that matter. and if so, should any of them be banned in tournaments or looked down on etc. the overall smash community's opinions mean more to me than one bias view so that was the whole point of this thread. (although I appreciate the sympathy and advice too =D)
C@sH Mooney
Smash Master
None of them are cheap. Your friend is just bad.
Fatmanonice
Banned via Warnings
Wow... your friend sounds irritating to say the least... Whenever I had this problem in Melee, I'd just beat my friends with Pichu or Jigglypuff. Just beat him with a character he thinks completely sucks and that'll shut him up.
dj_pwn1423
Smash Journeyman
well the fact that he thinks that even falco's Fsmash is cheap is pretty stupid. fox's fair?
if he tries to argue a smash attack's "cheapness" you can give him crap about wario's Fsmash(super armor? super knock back? it doesn't get anymore broken than that)
list of useful johns:
-zelda's >B is cheap.
-DK's B atk is cheap.
-Charizard's Fsmash is cheap.
-PT, 3 chars? wtf.
meh I dunno its useful to john back to feel better about yourself.
also ask him what he means by "don't rely one them" I doubt he has seen many tourney matches.
lol I actually remember playing this one meta knight in a tourney. He beat my TL and Wolf on our first matches. I decided to switch to Lucario and after beating him the next two matches, he said I was unskilled for camping.
(how else was I supposed to space against meta knight?>_<)
But yeah, after that he challenged me to a rematch. I'm guessing he wanted to "out camp" me or something because he picked Falco. As soon as the match started he started spamming he laser lols. He couldnt even SHL, XD skill my ***.
I kinda... ***** him... bad. He didn't throw his controller but he was pretty mad after that.
moral: no johns... ever.
if he tries to argue a smash attack's "cheapness" you can give him crap about wario's Fsmash(super armor? super knock back? it doesn't get anymore broken than that)
list of useful johns:
-zelda's >B is cheap.
-DK's B atk is cheap.
-Charizard's Fsmash is cheap.
-PT, 3 chars? wtf.
meh I dunno its useful to john back to feel better about yourself.
also ask him what he means by "don't rely one them" I doubt he has seen many tourney matches.
nothing is really looked down upon in tourneys. except for maybe camping. even then, no johns.
lol I actually remember playing this one meta knight in a tourney. He beat my TL and Wolf on our first matches. I decided to switch to Lucario and after beating him the next two matches, he said I was unskilled for camping.
(how else was I supposed to space against meta knight?>_<)
But yeah, after that he challenged me to a rematch. I'm guessing he wanted to "out camp" me or something because he picked Falco. As soon as the match started he started spamming he laser lols. He couldnt even SHL, XD skill my ***.
I kinda... ***** him... bad. He didn't throw his controller but he was pretty mad after that.
moral: no johns... ever.
dj_pwn1423
Smash Journeyman
double post. ignore this.
Reyairia
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2007
- Messages
- 2,473
I lol'd.
Tell him to be cheap as well, and if he doesn't want to be tell him not to complain about losing then.
orintemple
Smash Lord
Your friend is a scrub, done.
Nothing is "cheap", there are things that are horribly imbalanced, sure, but not "cheap". Pretty much every character has a "cheap" thing, so just continue to do it, and don't worry about what he thinks. He plays Zelda, one of the "cheapest" characters around. Hypocrit.
If he can't deal with your "cheapness" then he is just worse than you, there is a way around all things, even being infinite grabbed. You can just not get grabbed. People say that is not possible but if you are so good that you **** your opponent before they can touch you, you don't need to worry about it. Whether or not you can get that good is your own problem.
I would be pissed if I lost a tourney because I got infinite grabbed, but I knew what was coming when I signed up.
Nothing is "cheap", there are things that are horribly imbalanced, sure, but not "cheap". Pretty much every character has a "cheap" thing, so just continue to do it, and don't worry about what he thinks. He plays Zelda, one of the "cheapest" characters around. Hypocrit.
If he can't deal with your "cheapness" then he is just worse than you, there is a way around all things, even being infinite grabbed. You can just not get grabbed. People say that is not possible but if you are so good that you **** your opponent before they can touch you, you don't need to worry about it. Whether or not you can get that good is your own problem.
I would be pissed if I lost a tourney because I got infinite grabbed, but I knew what was coming when I signed up.
alright guys thanks a lot. I think I might try once again to say all these things to my friend. if he still won't budge, I'll show him this thread and all your responses and then beat him with his own character.
any more opinions on the cheapness of any of the list of moves posted earlier would be appreciated. something in specific I would like to know: My friend claims that what separates me from other D3, Lucario, Falco, etc. players is that I rely on only one move and that all those other players use all the moves and therefore I am the only one without skill. If we assumed that this was true and that I did only rely on one move, would that still be something to complain about or call "cheap?" I'm pretty sure a pro D3 player would be looking to CG his opponent off the side of the stage whenever he could for an easy risk-free kill right?
any more opinions on the cheapness of any of the list of moves posted earlier would be appreciated. something in specific I would like to know: My friend claims that what separates me from other D3, Lucario, Falco, etc. players is that I rely on only one move and that all those other players use all the moves and therefore I am the only one without skill. If we assumed that this was true and that I did only rely on one move, would that still be something to complain about or call "cheap?" I'm pretty sure a pro D3 player would be looking to CG his opponent off the side of the stage whenever he could for an easy risk-free kill right?
Tangy
Smash Apprentice
In melee, "cheap" was defined as a 0 to death combo, or just a move that can kill at low percentages, like fox's shine spike.
But since brawl and has been revamped to avoid being "cheap". Now I consider moves being spammed as "cheap"
But since brawl and has been revamped to avoid being "cheap". Now I consider moves being spammed as "cheap"
Rose Monkey
Smash Apprentice
hurr gaiz smash can't have anything cheap, nope its a perfect game
YOU DARE CONSIDER CHAIN GRABBING CHEAP? PFFPLLPLPFLPPTPFPT scrub l2p. just like every other game in existence, nothing is cheap
nothing
ever
even if someone had a sure-fire way to take you to 90% in a grab, dats not cheap at all, cuz you can totally escape it and stuff
you know.
-insert other obnoxious backwards logic trying to prove a point to people who think that nothing can ever possibly be considered cheap, but to no avail because 99% of the people on this board can't possibly fathom something being called cheap-
YOU DARE CONSIDER CHAIN GRABBING CHEAP? PFFPLLPLPFLPPTPFPT scrub l2p. just like every other game in existence, nothing is cheap
nothing
ever
even if someone had a sure-fire way to take you to 90% in a grab, dats not cheap at all, cuz you can totally escape it and stuff
you know.
-insert other obnoxious backwards logic trying to prove a point to people who think that nothing can ever possibly be considered cheap, but to no avail because 99% of the people on this board can't possibly fathom something being called cheap-
Blackbelt
Smash Lord
It isn't cheap if it helps you win.
Bud
Smash Journeyman
wana see cheap/easy move, get ike and push AAA. You cant beat it, its just the hardest most advanced combo ever.
Luigi player
Smash Master
If you think something is cheap, then use it yourself to beat your enemy! Seriously, why would you not want to win? Why not win as easy as possible. If anyone has a problem with it then you don't have to care. They could do it too. And if they don't it's their fault.
Genghis Krahn
Smash Cadet
Wow. If this guy is just your buddy, and it's just casual playing, he needs to lighten up a bit.
I mean, I know it's fun to be a bit competitive sometimes. But to take all the fun out of it? Questionable.
Last night actually me and one of my friends were hanging out, and we decided to just put our characters on random the whole time, and it made for some of the most fun Smash matches I've ever had.
If you don't want to be as competitive as he's being, don't be. Just play and have a good time. If he wants to get upset, let him.
I mean, I know it's fun to be a bit competitive sometimes. But to take all the fun out of it? Questionable.
Last night actually me and one of my friends were hanging out, and we decided to just put our characters on random the whole time, and it made for some of the most fun Smash matches I've ever had.
If you don't want to be as competitive as he's being, don't be. Just play and have a good time. If he wants to get upset, let him.
Tirno
Smash Journeyman
After extensive (and pensive) deliberation, I have come to the conclusion that tilts are cheap. Oh yeah, and smashes too. If my opponents weren't so **** cheap, I'd always win.
Haha, but seriously, the guy seems like a killjoy. Objectively criticizing character/moveset balance is once thing. Johning is another. Your friend seems to be falling into the second category. Just tell him to stop being a sore loser. The "use the same character" is a good suggestion to put him in his place, but even that's not invulnerable to the power of a sore loser johning (for example, he could complain that you use even his character too cheaply).
Haha, but seriously, the guy seems like a killjoy. Objectively criticizing character/moveset balance is once thing. Johning is another. Your friend seems to be falling into the second category. Just tell him to stop being a sore loser. The "use the same character" is a good suggestion to put him in his place, but even that's not invulnerable to the power of a sore loser johning (for example, he could complain that you use even his character too cheaply).
In a tournament scene, anything is fair game. In casual play, you've got to adjust to your audience. That said, it seems like your friend is overzealous in assigning the term "cheap," and pretty much defines it as "anything that makes me lose," in which case, I'm sure that you can find things in his own playstyle and character that are as good as Lucarios D-air or Aura Sphere
Also, if he thinks those are sooo cheap, ask him why he's not using Lucario or D3 or someone else equally as cheap..
That said, there are some techniques that are just no fun to play against at a casual level. I'll typically eschew baby aura sphere spamming (at least to excess) and Lucario's Force Palm chaingrab against heavier characters when playing against my friends, just because it makes the experience more boring for both of us.
Also, if he thinks those are sooo cheap, ask him why he's not using Lucario or D3 or someone else equally as cheap..
That said, there are some techniques that are just no fun to play against at a casual level. I'll typically eschew baby aura sphere spamming (at least to excess) and Lucario's Force Palm chaingrab against heavier characters when playing against my friends, just because it makes the experience more boring for both of us.
everlasting yayuhzz
Smash Champion
That's where I stopped reading.
iTz_HaVoC
Smash Cadet
I don't personally don't think anything is cheap. It was programmed into the game as a move. It all depends on how you, the player, can use it to your advantage. These days, of course, most people who consider themselves pro or on a pro level are rubbish. They've never seen chain grabbing and such. Best advice, play to the crowd to keep out of arguements.
No, it wouldn't be cheap even if those were the only moves you used. If your friend isn't good enough to beat something as telegraphed as the same move over and over again, his loss.
dj_pwn1423
Smash Journeyman
hai guyz everybody cares about mah opinion! Im obvusly betur cuz I play fair n' dun use cheap tactix.
no johns.
Bobo_The_Monkey
Smash Cadet
i personally dont find anything in the game cheap except some items , but character moves are part of the game. I think anyone who complains about a character just sucks with him and/or constantly loses to them, so they call that character "cheap" or "over-powered". I personally dont care what others think of me and my skills in a game, but i'm currently using yoshi and no one i know can come up with how he's cheap.
Geist
Smash Master
No thread is ever going to end this "cheap no cheap" debate. Everyone will always have their own opinion (reguardless of how whiny and illogical it sounds) and people are always going to john. It's like hoping a thread will end the "what is the best gaming console" debate. Not going to happen lol.
Personally, I don't think anything your friend was arguing could possibly be cheap. The goal of every smashbros game is to beat your opponent. So you do what it takes to win. If your friend took the time to think while he played he would realize that figuring out how to counter whatever you were doing would in turn make him better. And it goes in a circle.
-99% of "cheapness" are just johns because people are sad that they lost, or are losing.
-1% of "cheapness" is actually imbalances in the game, like shine infinites and melee shiek.=3
Also, your friend is a funny person for saying that depending on one move the entire game makes you skilless. He is very funny for thinking that pressing 2 button combinations takes any marginal skill whatsoever, and using all of said two button combinations makes you good.
Really, skill comes from manipulating said two button combinations and using them in a strategic, intelligent way that maximizes your overall capability.
/ pointless, repeditive, opinionative, sarcastic, and unoriginal rant.
Keep on chain grabbing. =/
Personally, I don't think anything your friend was arguing could possibly be cheap. The goal of every smashbros game is to beat your opponent. So you do what it takes to win. If your friend took the time to think while he played he would realize that figuring out how to counter whatever you were doing would in turn make him better. And it goes in a circle.
-99% of "cheapness" are just johns because people are sad that they lost, or are losing.
-1% of "cheapness" is actually imbalances in the game, like shine infinites and melee shiek.=3
Also, your friend is a funny person for saying that depending on one move the entire game makes you skilless. He is very funny for thinking that pressing 2 button combinations takes any marginal skill whatsoever, and using all of said two button combinations makes you good.
Really, skill comes from manipulating said two button combinations and using them in a strategic, intelligent way that maximizes your overall capability.
/ pointless, repeditive, opinionative, sarcastic, and unoriginal rant.
Keep on chain grabbing. =/
its me!
The OP is writing about me, and he is honestly exaggerating to make himself feel better. First of all, we are far from pro. I play smash for fun (isnt that what its for). And quite frankly, it puts me in a sour mood that every time we play friendlies, he plays 1 character the whole night and repeatedly chain grabs me for hours unless i pick metaknight and own him.
The fact is, we play DK vs. DDD most of the time, and we split the victories, but he **** talks me when he wins, so I defend myself. Sometimes i bite my tongue for hours, and he just keeps blabbing, so I finally say something then he blabs more. In a competitive tournament chain grabbing is acceptable (unless they ban certain ones). In friendlies, its just gay to sit there doing it all night.
Also, in melee chain grabs took skill and the other person at least had SOME chance of mindgamesing with DI to get out. In brawl the chaingrabs are absurdly easy (aside from IC's). It is stupid that chaingrabbing which requires no skill should restrict me to only playing a couple counter characters.
So, just had to put that out there.
The OP is writing about me, and he is honestly exaggerating to make himself feel better. First of all, we are far from pro. I play smash for fun (isnt that what its for). And quite frankly, it puts me in a sour mood that every time we play friendlies, he plays 1 character the whole night and repeatedly chain grabs me for hours unless i pick metaknight and own him.
The fact is, we play DK vs. DDD most of the time, and we split the victories, but he **** talks me when he wins, so I defend myself. Sometimes i bite my tongue for hours, and he just keeps blabbing, so I finally say something then he blabs more. In a competitive tournament chain grabbing is acceptable (unless they ban certain ones). In friendlies, its just gay to sit there doing it all night.
Also, in melee chain grabs took skill and the other person at least had SOME chance of mindgamesing with DI to get out. In brawl the chaingrabs are absurdly easy (aside from IC's). It is stupid that chaingrabbing which requires no skill should restrict me to only playing a couple counter characters.
So, just had to put that out there.
-Lucario's Dair- No
-Lucario's Priority- No
-Lucario's Smash Duration- No
-Lucario's Aura Sphere- No. In fact its somewhat easy to avoid.
-D3's chain grab- Yes.
-D3's infinites- Yes.
-D3's items and Gordo- Yes.
-Falco's chain grab- Yes.
-Falco's shine- No
-Falco's forward smash- No.
-Fox's Shine- No.
-Fox's Fair- No.
-Fox's Up Tilt- No.
-Wolf's Down Smash- No.
-Wolf's Forward Smash- No.
-Wolf's Back Air- No
-Wolf's Shine (the fact that it speeds projectiles back faster)- No
I'm going to say yes on chaingrabbing being cheap (particularly on Dk/Luigi and on walk off edge stages). If you're in a tournament then sure by all means use them. But I do believe this tactic allows you to win with less skill than your opponent. Plus its just frustrating. If you're playing in a casual setting and your friends complain about it just don't use it and it will probably be more fun for everyone. The other things are not in the least bit cheap. They're just ummmm... moves...
-Lucario's Priority- No
-Lucario's Smash Duration- No
-Lucario's Aura Sphere- No. In fact its somewhat easy to avoid.
-D3's chain grab- Yes.
-D3's infinites- Yes.
-D3's items and Gordo- Yes.
-Falco's chain grab- Yes.
-Falco's shine- No
-Falco's forward smash- No.
-Fox's Shine- No.
-Fox's Fair- No.
-Fox's Up Tilt- No.
-Wolf's Down Smash- No.
-Wolf's Forward Smash- No.
-Wolf's Back Air- No
-Wolf's Shine (the fact that it speeds projectiles back faster)- No
I'm going to say yes on chaingrabbing being cheap (particularly on Dk/Luigi and on walk off edge stages). If you're in a tournament then sure by all means use them. But I do believe this tactic allows you to win with less skill than your opponent. Plus its just frustrating. If you're playing in a casual setting and your friends complain about it just don't use it and it will probably be more fun for everyone. The other things are not in the least bit cheap. They're just ummmm... moves...
leafgreen386
Dirty camper
Using controllers is cheap. Everyone should have to play with just their minds.
Nefarious
Smash Apprentice
i think snake is to good. all his attacks send you flying miles. his dash attack totally hits all the time. his up smash is mad pwnage. his range is way to good also
i wouldnt say hes cheap, hes just annoying to play against.
LOLed at leafgreen. controllers should be banned !
i wouldnt say hes cheap, hes just annoying to play against.
LOLed at leafgreen. controllers should be banned !