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Do you think any previous characters are going to be removed? (Also: A riddance of cloned movesets?

Nyjeezy

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Two points of discussion I'd like to propose:
1. Do you think any characters in Brawl have any chance of being removed from the series as with Mewtwo, Roy, and Pichu? Do you think any characters are going to be removed at all?
-Sub Question: Any characters that were removed do you think will be brought back?

2. How do you feel about cloned move sets? (Capt. Faclon/Ganon, Link/TL to some extent, etc.) Will they be finally done and away with? For exmaple. I would REALLY love if Ganon got to use his sword from Twilight Princess
 

[Corn]

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Two points of discussion I'd like to propose:
1. Do you think any characters in Brawl have any chance of being removed from the series as with Mewtwo, Roy, and Pichu? Do you think any characters are going to be removed at all?
-Sub Question: Any characters that were removed do you think will be brought back?

2. How do you feel about cloned move sets? (Capt. Faclon/Ganon, Link/TL to some extent, etc.) Will they be finally done and away with? For exmaple. I would REALLY love if Ganon got to use his sword from Twilight Princess
1: Id say Pichu and Roy are definitely out, but with Mewtwos recent activity I wouldnt count him out as well. Characters will be removed for newer characters in new games.

2: I feel like Ganon isnt coming back, because Demise is technically Ganondorf and they could spin that as an excuse to revamp his moveset. Toon link will probably be in due to his new remake. I have no issue with cloned animations, I only have issues with cloned playstyles.
 

BluePikmin11

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1: Id say Pichu and Roy are definitely out, but with Mewtwos recent activity I wouldnt count him out as well. Characters will be removed for newer characters in new games.

2: I feel like Ganon isnt coming back, because Demise is technically Ganondorf and they could spin that as an excuse to revamp his moveset. Toon link will probably be in due to his new remake. I have no issue with cloned animations, I only have issues with cloned playstyles.
But Ganondorf represents the villain of generally most of Zelda, why the heck would you get rid of him?
 

Nyjeezy

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1: Id say Pichu and Roy are definitely out, but with Mewtwos recent activity I wouldnt count him out as well. Characters will be removed for newer characters in new games.

2: I feel like Ganon isnt coming back, because Demise is technically Ganondorf and they could spin that as an excuse to revamp his moveset. Toon link will probably be in due to his new remake. I have no issue with cloned animations, I only have issues with cloned playstyles.
Is "Demise" a new antagonist in the Zelda series? I haven't played any new LoZ games since Twilight Princess.
 

[Corn]

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Is "Demise" a new antagonist in the Zelda series? I haven't played any new LoZ games since Twilight Princess.
Skyward Sword, He is the original Ganondorf and all the other Ganons are his reincarnations. The new model of link is from Skyward Sword and that tells alot.


But Ganondorf represents the villain of generally most of Zelda, why the heck would you get rid of him?
Technically Demise is Ganon. The only inclusion I could see of him is making his Reincarnations one character like PKMN trainer in a way.
 

SKM_NeoN

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1. I think Ike will be replaced with Chrom. Snake and Sonic will likely be replaced by Pac-Man and Mega Man. My hope is that Mewtwo will replace Lucario. Lucas and R.O.B need to go.

2. Clones are a cheap way to bolster the roster. They need to forget about the stupid single-player campaign and put all that effort into making every character unique and playable.
 

Lugubrious

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I imagine that ROB and Falco will be removed . Probably Ike and Lucas as well, though I don't think they deserve it.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if Mewtwo returned, with a bit of a twist.

Clone characters will be either diversified or taken out, I think. Either Ganondorf gets a sword moveset or he's replaced with Demise or Ghirahim. Falco will likely be swapped out for Krystal, who has more moveset potential, and Lucas could see some changes or see the door. I have no idea.
 

JabbatheHutt

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From Brawl Its gonna come down to replacing Lucario with Mewthree (Or Awakened Mewtwo as hes offically called) and Rob for someone else. dont see alot form Brawl going. Melleee had a lot of filler Brawl didnt
 

hydrokyogre

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1. Some characters like Ike, ROB, Lucario, Toon Link, Snake, etc. seem to be on thin ice, but for all we know they could be bringing every character back. There are a lot of characters who "might" make it back in, but I'm not going to worry about them until we start getting information about who's in and who's not.

I'm really hoping that Mewtwo will make it into this one, being the most popular cut character and the only one of them who was really unique. (The new Mewtwo form stuff is also a factor, but I would prefer Mewtwo's original appearance.)


2. I'm actually pretty happy with how some "clone" characters are in Brawl. Falco, for instance, has some moves that are similar to Fox (which makes sense), but enough of his moveset has changed for his play style to feel very different. I would like Ganon to be changed for the sole reason that Ganondorf, the evil magic demon villain from the Zelda series, being like a fat lazy Captain Falcon is just wacky.
 

daniel13789

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1: As sad as it is, most defiantly they will. So far, I think Toon Link has already been confirmed to be out. The train stage for the 3DS version makes me believe that. Although I could be wrong. I feel like Lucario will be removed in order to put in that new Mewtwo from Pokemon X&Y. I hope Sonic and Snake stay in the roster. Sonic fit TOO well with the rest of the cast. Snake was really fun to play as, even though he didn't fit in as well as other characters. He somehow still had is way of fitting in. There are others I fear for. Most of the 'Cloned cast' to be precise. I think Luigi might still have his spot in the roster (I hope). I feel as if Ganondorf might also stay; simply because his move set is different in such a way from Captain Falcon that he is almost his own character. Sadly, he has the same amount of chance as getting kicked as many others. Lucas, Falco, and probably even Wolf all share the risk. I don't know why, but a feeling in my gut says that R.O.B is going to get cut. Personally, I would love it if the whole cast would stay. But we all know it's only a dream.

- That possibility is always there. But if they're trying to get rid of cloned characters; either they won't be coming back, or they'll be back with a different move list. IE: Roy having a different set of B moves from Marth.

2: I somewhat morphed this question in with the first one :facepalm: But I'm not too fond of cloned characters. It somewhat shows a sign of laziness. I did like how they treated them in Brawl though. They had very similar moves, but with enough to make them still feel fresh. But in the long run, it doesn't bother me too much. Hell, some of my mains in Brawl are cloned characters lol
 

Curious Villager

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1: As sad as it is, most defiantly they will. So far, I think Toon Link has already been confirmed to be out. The train stage for the 3DS version makes me believe that. Although I could be wrong.

No one has been confirmed to be out. Not even Toon Link. That Spirit Train stage means nothing as has been proven time and again. We have to wait until we get to see the full roster itself or any of Sakurai's own comment's in regards to certain veterans.

Anyway's. As for the OP's questions.

I honestly don't know who is likely to be cut. Melee had a few characters who were pretty disposable. But almost all of the Brawl cast were all either unique or iconic characters so It's more difficult to tell with them. I think the only ones who could get cut are Snake and Sonic and that is only if Konami and Sega don't come back to request their characters in the game again and if Sakurai is happy to have them both in the game again.

I'm okay with clones, for some of my favourite characters I'd much rather have them in as a slightly tweaked clone than not having them in at all. Though I do appreciate the effort if Sakurai tried to differentiate them more.
 

Artsy Omni

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I'm sure SOMEBODY will be cut, and it would probably be clones out before others, but I suspect we'll still see clones in this game, just because they seem to be incapable of avoiding them.
 

Shorts

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I have a feeling Snake is gone.

Besides him, I think Sonic, Toon Link, Lucario, Pokemon Trainer, and Wolf could potentially be on the chopping block. I don't see ROB, Lucas, or Ike being cut.
 

daniel13789

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No one has been confirmed to be out. Not even Toon Link. That Spirit Train stage means nothing as has been proven time and again. We have to wait until we get to see the full roster itself or any of Sakurai's own comment's in regards to certain veterans.
To me, it just doesn't seem like he'll make it back in. But who knows? Like you've stated, nothing is absolute till it's set in stone. Just the fact that Nintendo's making a HD Wind Waker is keeping my hopes up for him to stay in the roster.
 

Curious Villager

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To me, it just doesn't seem like he'll make it back in. But who knows? Like you've stated, nothing is absolute till it's set in stone. Just the fact that Nintendo's making a HD Wind Waker is keeping my hopes up for him to stay in the roster.

We will just have to wait and see in regards to what Toon Link's fate is. As has been stated many times before. The Toon Link who is controlling the Spirit Train isn't the same one from Brawl and Wind Waker. So we can't use this as confirmation that he is out unless Sakurai states so himself.
 

SureNsync

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What I know for sure is Sonic has more of a chance to return then Snake. Falco and Lucas aren't getting cut.
 

Mr. Mumbles

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Why in the world would Ike be cut? Rob I suppose could be, but I don't know. The only reason I find Rob being cut even believable is because Mewtwo was seemingly randomly cut. But Ike? If anything Sakurai will add a FE rep not remove one. Yes I know he did both last time, but Roy was a clone.
 

Neanderthal

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Two points of discussion I'd like to propose:
1. Do you think any characters in Brawl have any chance of being removed from the series as with Mewtwo, Roy, and Pichu? Do you think any characters are going to be removed at all?
-Sub Question: Any characters that were removed do you think will be brought back?
I didn't think there would be any cuts, but with the reveal of Toon Link being part of a stage makes me worry for his chances.
Lucario and Wolf are the only other ones I could theoretically see being at risk. Maybe Lucas too but I very much doubt it.

MewTwo will definitely be back.

2. How do you feel about cloned move sets? (Capt. Faclon/Ganon, Link/TL to some extent, etc.) Will they be finally done and away with? For exmaple. I would REALLY love if Ganon got to use his sword from Twilight Princess
Ganondorf getting his own moveset is what I'm hoping for more than any newcomer by far.

Some clones like Falco or Lucas don't bother me. It makes more sense to spend the time giving other characters like G'dorf or newcomers their own moveset since these characters make perfect sense as clones anyway.
 

Mithost

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I think Toon Link, Lucario, Wolf, and Ike are on the chopping block. Lucario might get replaced with a more current gen pokemon, Ike might be replaced with Chrom, Wolf might seem redundant or might be replaced by krystal, and Toon Link has been seen on the Spirit Tracks stage already.
 

Mr. Mumbles

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Ganondorf getting his own moveset is what I'm hoping for more than any newcomer by far.
This! All of my yes! The new character I want is Ganondorf. Trouble is they already gave him to us... except no they didn't. Ganondorf isn't what he should be.
 

Jigglymaster

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This! All of my yes! The new character I want is Ganondorf. Trouble is they already gave him to us... except no they didn't. Ganondorf isn't what he should be.
I agree, Ganondorf has never really been in Smash to begin with. He's been a worse version of Captain Falcon in both games so far. The Zelda franchise could use some new reps this time around (as they didn't really get any in Brawl). I'd love to see Ghirahim or hell even Groose (you know that would be the best).

As for a character I think might be cut that most wouldn't think, Metaknight. I could actually see Sakurai cutting MK after seeing how he was like in Brawl (he has seen top comp play with MK and he hates it). And he might just pull out his own character to go back on his word in Melee where he didn't want too many characters from his own series.

Other characters I see on the chopping block are Sonic, Snake, Toon Link, Pokemon Trainer, Ike, and Lucario. Characters like Ganondorf, Wolf, and Lucas I think should be getting new movesets like how Pit and Bowser have been receiving, that would be nice.
 

[Corn]

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I agree, Ganondorf has never really been in Smash to begin with. He's been a worse version of Captain Falcon in both games so far. The Zelda franchise could use some new reps this time around (as they didn't really get any in Brawl). I'd love to see Ghirahim or hell even Groose (you know that would be the best).

As for a character I think might be cut that most wouldn't think, Metaknight. I could actually see Sakurai cutting MK after seeing how he was like in Brawl (he has seen top comp play with MK and he hates it). And he might just pull out his own character to go back on his word in Melee where he didn't want too many characters from his own series.

Other characters I see on the chopping block are Sonic, Snake, Toon Link, Pokemon Trainer, Ike, and Lucario. Characters like Ganondorf, Wolf, and Lucas I think should be getting new movesets like how Pit and Bowser have been receiving, that would be nice.

Ya, if Meta makes it back he will be a completely different character. Though I would rather have Prince Fluff...
 

Yonder

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I would be mortified if MK got replaced with Prince Fluff IMO...

I hope Toon Link gets cut. Mewtwo needs to return. I don't exactly see Snake returning. Despite his enjoyable playstyle and inclusion, I think his shock factor is over now. I'm Nona miss him if he goes though...

I could see Sonic sticking around for this game, though. Hated his playstyle...
 

Jigglymaster

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Is this actually true? Cause I've always thought his Brawl moveset seemed very generic for an iconic character whos been in so many games.
Yes, Sonic wasn't apart of the original roster, and was added into the game later, so he didn't get as much development time as the other characters.
 

TweetyPurd

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1. i would guess that removed characters will be: Wolf, Toon Link, ROB, and Pokemon Trainer
I dont think falco will go (even though he is a semi clone) because he is just so popular. I expect a greater change in his B moves from fox, beyond even wolfs.

2. And that brings me to: YES, remove cloned movesets. Falco can just have his B moves changed a bit more, but his A moves are mostly different to Fox now anyway. Lucas needs a revamp in a few of his A and B attacks, and Ganan should be started from scratch :)
 

Kapus

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Is this actually true? Cause I've always thought his Brawl moveset seemed very generic for an iconic character whos been in so many games.
Yes, Sonic was added very late in the development. (that's also why he showed up so late in SSE)

As for character cuts, personally I think Lucario, as a flavor of the week type of character, might be replaced by another pokemon (possibly Mewtwo, considering his new design). Snake is probably going to be cut as well, considering they want to keep third parties to a minimum and Mega Man was already added.

The rest I'm not too sure about.
 

grizby2

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it'd be kinda weird chopping off MK, he was one of the "hype" characters in the trailer for brawl wasn't he? and hes a pretty popular Kirby character....

anyway for me, cut priority goes like this:

1. snake
2. pokemon trainer
3. toonlink
4. sonic
5. lucario
6. ike
heres my reasoning. Warning! this post contains "IMO"

(deep breath)

Snake: 1st off, hes a 3rd party character, so he's already in the red. 2nd, he attacks waaay too fast for the third heaviest character making him sort'a OP imo. 3rd, the xbox 1 is hosting his next game, so maybe his focus will stay with Microsoft. I think if theres going to be another 3rd party rep, snake will be removed in favor of it.

Pokémon trainer: ok, so im kinda mix about PT, but its mainly because squirtle and charizard could have been made a lot better since they remind me too much of Mario and bowser,but on no account are they clones. I actually love ivysaur a lot more than both squirtle or charizard despite lots of others thinking the opposite. the whole "fatigue" status was also a huge bummer. also I think PT can be swapped for either a different pokemon, or a PT with different pokemon.

toonlink: not an EXACT clone of link, but hes way too similar. he either needs to have a different moveset entirely, or be swapped out for a different type of link. nothing less.


Sonic: again, a 3rd party character, BUT that's the only reason really. hes one of the lowest on my cut list because I believe a lot of people still want sonic in the next smash bros, the sonic franchise has been doing very well on Nintendo consoles, and Nintendo fans are warming up to sonic. sonic had a unique moveset that unfortunately ended up being bad do to its low KO potential, but this can be altered by tweaking him a bit and he'd be good to go.




Lucario: a have a bad feeling about lucario too, but I believe he can still make it. he gets blamed for stealing mewtwo's spot which is not true. mewtwo wasn't in do to time restrictions. there are many who play lucario simply for the fact that they loved to play mewtwo in melee, and lucario is as close as it gets. hopefully they will not cut lucario since he has an original moveset, but im thinking they need to remove the "aura" mechanic. id love to see lucario and mewtwo duke it out, but if I cant have both, then i'll choose mewtwo. I trust that mewtwo would have a different yet familiar moveset that most people would welcome. theres just TOO many pokemon out there! I think its inevitable that they share turns in smash bros and this is why pokemon newcomer speculation is so hard to agree upon.


Ike: I have a bad feeling that ike wont make it into ssb4, hes a great character that has a great AND unique moveset overall. he represents the fire emblem franchise very well. I think the main problem is that theres ALOT of fire emblem characters that can also represent the franchise very well. the cast of FE is HUGE. so really, its not that ike has competition against the brawl cast, its the FIRE EMBLEM cast he should be worried about. with all the new fire emblem activity, theres a good chance that we may see someone replace ike in favor of another "flavor of the month" type deal (kinda like with lucario pokemon cut speculation)

as for R.O.B. and G&W, I dont think they should be cut. a curse upon thee to those who cut wtf characters~
 

PikaJew

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Roy, Pichu, Dr. Mario and Young Link will not return.
Lucario and Ike won't return. R.O.B., Lucario, Snake and Pokemon Trainer are iffy
Lucario will be replaced by Mewtwo, or by another legendary Pokemon. But Mewtwo will return.
Ike will be replaced by another heavy Fire Emblem swordsman (unless they add a magic themed character, then Ike will stay)
R.O.B. is tricky... He's too unique to just get rid of. But I don't see him being a top priority.
Snake is tricky. I don't know if they just put him in Brawl just to include him in a game to get people off their backs, or if they actually want him as an iconic character to stay.
Pokemon Trainer is an incredible addition, it's just tough to know if he will return with the same Pokemon. Although everyone fell in love with that Squirt/Ivy/Zard combo, maybe they will try the same approach with newer Pokemon.

Sonic is 100% going to be in it. Too much of an iconic character, and with all the Nintendo exclusive Sonic titles it just makes sense.
Wario is staying. He has his own franchise that he needs to represent.
Diddy Kong will stay, especially since he was included in the Donkey Kong Country Returns games, they might even add Dixie Kong.
Toon Link will return. With the success of Windwaker HD it makes sense. And he provides a smaller, quicker version of Link that others prefer. They just need to tweek his moveset a little to include the Windwaker.
Ganondorf will 100% return. He is the iconic Zelda villain. I don't even care if his moveset is still the same as Captain Falcons, he provides a stronger version of that fighting style. But if they were to tweek it make the Warlock punch the same, but instead of a punch he shoots out a shadow ball. His side b is the same effect but a slash of his sword. His down b could be his sword reflecting projectiles and his up b could remain the same but add a shadowy effect around him when he does it.
Lucas will return, he was a unique alternative to Ness and was quite popular.
Wolf will return, he is the Star Fox villain and there needs to be more villains in the game. He just needs his moveset tweeked a little more.
All of the original 12 will return (no needs to cry that Yoshi wasn't in the e3 trailer, he is either not finished or not iconic enough to be one of the main representatives)
Jigglypuff and Ness will return.
 

JavaCroc

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1. Yes, some characters will be removed. I mainly am doubting Snake's returns. I could see Sonic, Wolf, Toon Link, and Lucario being considered for the cut as well.

1a. I think we'll see Mewtwo back at least, if not Roy as well. Those two are the only Melee cuts with a chance of returning as full-blown characters.

2. We won't see complete clones in SSB4, but semi-clones should still be expected. If Toon Link returns, for example, he will probably return a semi-clone still.
 

MasterOfKnees

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Skyward Sword, He is the original Ganondorf and all the other Ganons are his reincarnations. The new model of link is from Skyward Sword and that tells alot.
No, Link's design is still that of Twilight Princess if you look at all the details, it's just that the colors are more bright in this game than it was in the Brawl and in Twilight Princess. The design is the same as Twilight Princess, it's the colors that are throwing people off, so despite Skyward Sword even having a stage in this game they chose the Twilight Princess design for whatever reason.

Ganondorf is way more iconic than Demise, no way Ganondorf will be cut. It's pretty much become tradition that Ganon sits out on every second console Zelda game, just because Majora's Mask was the newest when Melee launched didn't give Majora priority over Ganondorf. Ganondorf is surely back, probably with a new revamped moveset, which I think will put more focus on his Warlock aspects than his swordsman talents, I can imagine Sakurai doesn't want to change a past character that much.
 

[Corn]

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No, Link's design is still that of Twilight Princess if you look at all the details, it's just that the colors are more bright in this game than it was in the last and in Twilight Princess. The design is the same as Twilight Princess, it's the colors that are throwing people off, so despite Skyward Sword even having a stage in this game they chose the Twilight Princess design for whatever reason.

Ganondorf is way more iconic than Demise, no way Ganondorf will be cut. It's pretty much become tradition that Ganon sits out on every second console Zelda game, just because Majora's Mask was the newest when Melee launched didn't give Majora priority over Ganondorf. Ganondorf is surely back, probably with a new revamped moveset, which I think will put more focus on his Warlock aspects than his swordsman talents, I can imagine Sakurai doesn't want to change a past character that much.

I realized that after I saw his bombs, my mistake.

Ya, dont count him out.
 

Vann Accessible

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There was an interview back in the day where Sakurai stated the roster size in SSB4 wouldn't be expanded as dramatically as it was from Melee to Brawl, but the focus would be more on balance.This in turns leads me to believe he will opt in favor of a more conservative, but more diversified roster in SSB4, which will include cutting a few redundant characters in Brawl to make room for all new ones.

So I am confident a couple will get the axe.Which ones are more unclear but I feel the most likely cut candidates are:

1. Toon Link
2. Lucario
3. Pokemon Trainer
3. Wolf
4. Ike
5. Lucas
6. Snake
 
D

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I find it ironic how my thread on cuts got closed when it was actually pretty peaceful. This should be in the character thread btw.

Only cuts that have even the remotest of shots of leaving are Snake, Sonic, Toon Link, Lucario and Ike. I think Snake is gone, Sonic is 50/50, Toon Link will likely return and Lucario and Ike are very unlikely cuts

Everyone else will stay, I guarantee it.
 

TheTuninator

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There was an interview back in the day where Sakurai stated the roster size in SSB4 wouldn't be expanded as dramatically as it was from Melee to Brawl, but the focus would be more on balance.This in turns leads me to believe he will opt in favor of a more conservative, but more diversified roster in SSB4, which will include cutting a few redundant characters in Brawl to make room for all new ones.

That interview is no longer really valid, seeing as it was given before he brought the Namco team on board. If they can at least make an attempt at balance for a game with fifty-nine characters, they can help Smash be balanced with a ~50 character roster.

Sakurai may yet opt for a smaller roster size, but I wouldn't take that interview as evidence for such an approach.
 
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