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Do you think any previous characters are going to be removed? (Also: A riddance of cloned movesets?

Artsy Omni

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It's baffling to me how so many people are so positive about so much unfounded character speculation.... Nobody knows anything, and everyone should stop pretending that they're so sure of themselves. The systems of reasoning you guys come up with are so often hilarious to me. =P

If I had a dollar for every false guarantee that's been given on these boards...
 

cybersai

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Why would anyone possibly think Rob or Sonic would be cut? Sakurai wouldn't keep adding "WTF characters" like Wii Fit Trainer if they thought obscure characters didn't belong in the series. Rob also has a unique moveset, use common sense.

As for Sonic there's no way he'll be cut. I really don't understand how people would think so, it doesn't make any sense. People have this bizarre assumption that Megaman somehow makes Sonic obsolete even though they have nothing to do with each other?

As for possible cut characters REALISTICALLY:

- Lucario, on the simply basis he's old news and Pokemon tends to have one new representation.

- Lucas, possible as he's similar to Ness and his game didn't come outside of Japan

- Ike, small possibility of him being replaced by Chrom

That's about it.
 

Curious Villager

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Yeah I think some are just getting too cut-happy in here.

And I really hope Toon Link doesn't become the next Ness where I have to put up with people continuously insisting that the Spirit Train stage is a guarantee that he is cut until the game's release. I'm really not looking forward to that stage's dojo update...

"Up until now" "Up until now" "Up until now" :urg:
 

Xenigma

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I think there's a strong chance of cuts happening, though I'm far from certain as to how many or which specific characters. Hard part for me is that I honestly believe every single character in Brawl has good reason for being there, so I'm hesitant to say anyone is truly on the chopping block. Of the cast I'd say the following have the greatest risk (no particular order):

- Wolf, for being a third Star Fox character with a very similar moveset.
- Falco, for being even more like Fox and arguably being less important than Wolf.
- Ike, for being a recent Fire Emblem representative that could be replaced by Chrom/Lucina/etc.
- Lucario, for being a recent Pokemon representative that is similar to the possibly returning Mewtwo.
- Lucas, for being a recent Mother representative and being somewhat redundant to Ness (though not a true clone).
- Toon Link, for being the closest clone in Brawl and arguably not that important in recent years.
- Sonic and Snake, for being third party representatives.

And that's excluding potential surprise cuts like Jigglypuff, ZSS or Sheik. Realistically I'd say the grand majority of Brawl's cast is safe, so its just a matter or waiting and seeing who gets unlucky.
 

FalKoopa

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To answer the OP's questions:
1. I'm not sure. Sakurai said he was pleased with Brawl's roster. He has a larger team on-board now. And honestly there weren't any filler characters in Brawl.
- Dr. Mario, Roy and Mewtwo were planned for Brawl, so any of them coming back won't surprise me. I don't see Pichu or Young Link coming back thogh.

2. I'm all for decloning characters. (Falco could use a new move or two, Wolf should have a new special, Ganondorf could do with a complete revamp, Toon Link could pull more moves from his arsenal etc etc.)
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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Sakurai did state that the 3DS's size limitations is the reason for the risk of seeing certain veteran characters fly the coop. However, that could always be countered by reducing the quality of the models and/or textures.
 

cybersai

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Honestly if Falco was going to be cut I think he would have been dropped when Brawl came along. The mere fact that Falco stayed and Wolf was still added says a lot.

Also does anyone else think Sakurai favors the Starfox franchise? Fox is always promoted in the game reveals of Melee, Brawl and Wii-U and the Stafox stages are always the best of each game.
 
D

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Sakurai did state that the 3DS's size limitations is the reason for the risk of seeing certain veteran characters fly the coop. However, that could always be countered by reducing the quality of the models and/or textures.
He never said anything about cutting veterans due to the size limitation of the 3DS. As a matter of fact, I'm not even definitive that is the case since he never said explicitly that he may have to cut characters, but "reduce some characters to a certain degree".
 

FalKoopa

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Sakurai did state that the 3DS's size limitations is the reason for the risk of seeing certain veteran characters fly the coop. However, that could always be countered by reducing the quality of the models and/or textures.
He hasn't mentioned "size" anywhere though. It was more like programming issues for gimmicky characters like Ice Climbers.
 

Mr. Mumbles

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Sakurai did state that the 3DS's size limitations is the reason for the risk of seeing certain veteran characters fly the coop. However, that could always be countered by reducing the quality of the models and/or textures.
It seems Megaman beat me too it but the phrase Sakurai used was, "reduce some characters to a certain degree." That too me doesn't sound like he is talking about number of characters at all. Granted it could be a poor translation, but talking about reducing the number of characters, instead of reducing or altering certain aspects of them makes less sense in context. Yes he does follow up by saying that they are working hard to keep as many characters as possible, which I believe was his way of trying to assure us that he wasn't thinking of removing any of the characters over the technical limitations issue. They are working hard to make sure that doesn't happen. Sure it is technically a possibility as he didn't want to promise anything, but I don't think it will happen. Especially not when he stated in another interview that the 3ds version won't hold the wiiU version back, even though we know they will have the same roster.
 

ImaClubYou

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Idk about Sonic leaving. He's pretty much part of Nintendo now, though some might disagree. You can't have an olympic game without Mario and Sonic in it.

Sakarai is apparently friends with the guy who wanted Snake it, but that's what I heard.

Looking for Lloyd Irving!
 

Mr. Mumbles

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The thing about Sonic leaving or not, is neither side can call the other crazy for their opinion, because third party characters only exist in one game so far. We have yet to see how Nintendo handles carrying over third party characters from one game to another. Maybe they don't believe in having a third party character in more then one game. Maybe they think omitting Sonic would impact there sales. This is one of those cases where not only is it impossible to know, it is impossible to have any idea.
 

Bedhead

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I would rather have them go back and rework quasi-clones like Ganondorf, Toon Link and Falco, who have potential for unique movesets full of personality, than bring them back as they were. At this point I am more interested in a game with balance, polish and care than a game with as many characters as they could cram.
 

Mr. Mumbles

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I would rather have them go back and rework quasi-clones like Ganondorf, Toon Link and Falco, who have potential for unique movesets full of personality, then bring them back as they were.
If they are really reworking the characters from the ground up, as a recent article suggested, then I should think so. Then again they allegedly did that with Brawl too, and somehow we still got semi-clones.
 

Bedhead

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If they are really reworking the characters from the ground up, as a recent article suggested, then I should think so. Then again they allegedly did that with Brawl too, and somehow we still got semi-clones.

The alleged reasons for that are manifold. It's possible that Sakurai doesn't consider quasi-clones to be a problem. In the case of the StarFox trio it's understandable to a degree, but with every new iteration it gets more and more ridiculous for Ganondorf to be a Captain Falcon clone. Personally I'm not fond of the concept in general; in "traditional" fighting games it's an established feature, but in Smash, which is all about the rich history of the characters and games, it comes off as lazy. (Even when it isn't.)
 

lordvaati

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I have the feeling that at least 2 characters will not return.

Someone is gonna be cut, and we have to accept it. This news will eventually come...and it will end bloody for all us.
 
D

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Don't be surprised when Ike is removed to make room for a Fire Emblem Awakening character.
Ike is a very popular Lord that starred in two games and has a very unique move set. I doubt he'll be going anywhere. Either Chrom will take the third spot or he doesn't get in and Roy is brought back instead (which I'm honestly thinking is the more likely scenario).
 

XavierSylfaen

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Ike is a very popular Lord that starred in two games and has a very unique move set. I doubt he'll be going anywhere. Either Chrom will take the third spot or he doesn't get in and Roy is brought back instead (which I'm honestly thinking is the more likely scenario).

Why? Awakening had a great reception, it wouldn't make sense to bring Roy back.

I'm pretty sure most of Roy's fans didn't play FE6 anyway.
 

bobadz

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Ike is a very popular Lord that starred in two games and has a very unique move set. I doubt he'll be going anywhere. Either Chrom will take the third spot or he doesn't get in and Roy is brought back instead (which I'm honestly thinking is the more likely scenario).
I'm 95% positive Ike is staying after the polygon interview.

50/50 on Roy though.
 
D

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Why? Awakening had a great reception, it wouldn't make sense to bring Roy back.

I'm pretty sure most of Roy's fans didn't play FE6 anyway.
Fire Emblem 6 also had great reception in Japan when it came out, so it we're using reception as an arguing, it applies to Roy as well.

And why wouldn't it make sense for Roy to come back? He's among the Top 5 most wanted character for the game, he was seen by Sakurai as more than just promotion material (he was added to promote the entire series, not just his game) and he was planned on returning for Brawl. Villager proves that Sakurai is looking back at pre-Brawl stuff as well for characters. If he's adding Villager, who was previously rejected as not being able to work, then since Roy was planned to return in Brawl, he has a good shot and a much better one than most people give him credit for.

I fail to see why Roy fans not playing FE6 matters either. If they want Roy because of Melee, that shouldn't be a problem. Personally, that's why I'd like to see Roy back and it shouldn't be a problem.
 

Starcutter

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hopefully not lucario being cut. he has one of my favorite pokemon designs.

next to dewott, because I like otters and samurott looks nothing like one.
 

Tien2500

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Sonic will most likely stay. Nintendo is going to have three exclusive Sonic games on the Wii U, and I'm sure Sega isn't objecting to the free advertising. It seems like a win-win, and the fact that he already has a moveset doesn't hurt his chances. If anything, Snake is a bit more likely to get the boot since he's not particularly relevant to Nintendo and Nintendo doesn't have a particularly strong relationship with Konami as they do with Sega.
 

κomıc

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I'm hoping no characters are removed because I thought the cast in Brawl were pretty fine and represented their respective series well. An additional 10-12 new characters to bring it up to 50'ish would be fine. I would think Namco would have a breeze balancing the cast considering their work on Soul Calibur and Tekken. Though, SC is up for debate, especially the recent iterations with Yoda and Ezio. But those were just broken guests.
 
D

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I think lucario's out. Generation 4 is soooo 2006. Id like to see Poliwrath take his palce. a true classic.
Can we please stop using recentness as an argument to remove characters? It's obvious that cuts are going to be based on more due to lack of uniquness (possibly Toon Link), time constraints and licensing issues (Snake and Sonic). I'm betting on Lucario at least being planned and I'd be surprised if he got the axe.

Even if recentness did matter, Lucario was heavily promoted during the 5th gen. That should enough to tell people that the Pokémon Company wouldn't want Lucario to go.
 

LiteralGrill

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I'm hoping no characters are removed because I thought the cast in Brawl were pretty fine and represented their respective series well. An additional 10-12 new characters to bring it up to 50'ish would be fine. I would think Namco would have a breeze balancing the cast considering their work on Soul Calibur and Tekken. Though, SC is up for debate, especially the recent iterations with Yoda and Ezio. But those were just broken guests.

Not to dash your hopes, but with what evidence we have, it seems some characters will be getting the axe for sure...
 

κomıc

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Not to dash your hopes, but with what evidence we have, it seems some characters will be getting the axe for sure...
If it happens it happens. I know the original 12 will be staying around. I mean, I main Kirby and Ness and those two are the ones I care about the most. Then there's DLC which I know it's going to happen, whether Sakurai himself likes it or not, Nintendo would definitely like to take advantage of that for a game like Smash Bros. no doubt.
 

kevdbeast

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I believe they will be giving the boot to some characters since they don't want the roster to get too big.they would run out of 1st party characters fairly quick!
 

JabbatheHutt

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Can we please stop using recentness as an argument to remove characters? It's obvious that cuts are going to be based on more due to lack of uniquness (possibly Toon Link), time constraints and licensing issues (Snake and Sonic). I'm betting on Lucario at least being planned and I'd be surprised if he got the axe.

Even if recentness did matter, Lucario was heavily promoted during the 5th gen. That should enough to tell people that the Pokémon Company wouldn't want Lucario to go.

tell that to MewTwo.
 

LiteralGrill

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If it happens it happens. I know the original 12 will be staying around. I mean, I main Kirby and Ness and those two are the ones I care about the most. Then there's DLC which I know it's going to happen, whether Sakurai himself likes it or not, Nintendo would definitely like to take advantage of that for a game like Smash Bros. no doubt.

I think Sakurai did say there would be no DLC for Smash, pretty sure that's confirmed. And I don't think Nintendo would really wanna push the mastermind of the game into something he didn't want to do, or to force him to add content that might possibly ruin the work he had already created against his will.
 

SuperMarioKarter

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Because they haven't been confirmed for the next one? It's not THAT hard to understand, lol
Not confirmed yet =/= Confirmed to be cut. We haven't seen anything of, say, Zalda or Luigi yet, but nobody's going out and saying they've been cut.

Also I think they should give Ganondorf a new moveset and throw his old one (with some improvements, of course) on Black Shadow. It makes sense, he has similar stature and the archetype of his machine (strong and heavy) fits Ganondorf's current stats.
 

dezeray112

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Two points of discussion I'd like to propose:
1. Do you think any characters in Brawl have any chance of being removed from the series as with Mewtwo, Roy, and Pichu? Do you think any characters are going to be removed at all?
-Sub Question: Any characters that were removed do you think will be brought back?

2. How do you feel about cloned move sets? (Capt. Faclon/Ganon, Link/TL to some extent, etc.) Will they be finally done and away with? For exmaple. I would REALLY love if Ganon got to use his sword from Twilight Princess

1. Possibly but still too soon to say at the moment.

2. I hope so.
 

TheTuninator

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Why? Awakening had a great reception, it wouldn't make sense to bring Roy back.

I'm pretty sure most of Roy's fans didn't play FE6 anyway.
Yeah, I really don't think that it makes sense to bring Roy back from the viewpoint of representing FE as a franchise. He was a clone in Melee anyways and there are much more popular Lords out there (speaking of popularity within FE, of course). If he's going to come back with a complete move rework (and he had better, as bringing back a clone would be pointless) they might as well just add a new Lord.

He might get in based on popularity from Melee, but given that a lot of FE fans seem to dislike him for being a crappy unit they can probably do better for a FE rep, and I'm not even saying that it has to be somebody from Awakening. Popularity from Melee didn't do much to save him in Brawl and I am doubtful if it will prove any more efficacious this time around.

Even if recentness did matter, Lucario was heavily promoted during the 5th gen. That should enough to tell people that the Pokémon Company wouldn't want Lucario to go.
Mewtwo was heavily promoted during the 1st gen. The Pokemon guys won't care if Lucario gets cut as long as he is replaced with a newer, more marketable character.
 

Homelessvagrant

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Well considering how far we are from the release, any speculation will be of the wild sort so I don't see how anyone can throw out percents in the way they are. Either way here's my own personal opinion on potential cuts from Brawl.

1. Wolf - A great addition but also a late addition to increase roster count. While I don't think being a clone negates any possible return, the fact that Fox has two clones is iffy to say the least. I can imagine them combining Wolf and Falco together and getting rid of the other and considering the fact that Falco has more history/less of an after thought suggests Wolf possible removal

2. Lucas - Mother is a great franchise with a cultic fan base but stagnant none-the-less. While Ness is a international icon, Lucas is more limited by his region and didn't see a more distributed release despite more fan awareness. Now that doesn't guarantee anything either way but as a simple Japan only rep (assuming Sakurai has a fancy list that has to have Japanese rep marked off) he doesn't add anything really and he really isn't iconic as a character in his own right (though that could be my own misplaced opinion)

3. Snake - This is more in lines with business dealings. I'd include Sonic as well but considering the fan popularity for the hedgehog as the "Rival of Mario," I there is more incentive to close the deal in another inclusion of the character. really when it comes to these characters it's all about fan support and business relationships, so there is no sure fire way of guessing if they'll make it in or not. (This exclusive deal Nintendo has with Sega for Sonic means little IMO, it shows a good company relationship but gurantees nothing)

4. Jigglypuff - This character has been hiding behind the miraculous original 12 for the longest time but that argument suggests Sakurai has some kind of status quo he must hold, as if Sakurai has a list that states: must have retro character, must have japanese exclusive, must keep original 12. I mean he could but I doubt it. Jigglypuff may have seniority on her side but she lacks significance outside Smash bros as in she doesn't really represent the series in outside media. Also something to keep in mind is that she was also was a late addition to the brawl roster and was at one point not going to make it in. I know a lot of people consider Lucario to be the first go-to character for removal for this game (and he could) but Lucario is still being used to represent the franchise. Of course its really hard to predict in which way pokemon will be represented this next game but I can see Jigglypuff as potentially being cut.

5. Toon Link - This isn't because of the stage but rather simply because Toon Link isn't a necessary addition to the Zelda line up, and his place could be filled with a potential new representative. I certainly hope I'm wrong about this though.

as for other characters being suggested: I can see why people are concerned about Ike and PT being cut considering their placement in two of the more represented series but I think the characters have enough following relevance to maintain roster placement. Ike's return really depends on whether or not a heavyweight Fire emblem rep can hold enough significance to replace him. I keep seeing Chrom's name thrown around with the whole stage confirmation and whatnot (and I'm not saying it's not possible) but IDK it just seems unlikely that they would replace Ike considering his has more representation of the series and has some seniority over the new swordsman. Of course trying to guess who will represent Fire emblem this time around (besides Marth) is near to impossible, there's way to many factors to consider

Pokemon Trainer on the other hand has a few things going for him, while he's not totally in the clear he isn't as questionable as some other names people are throwing around. The thing most people fail to notice is that the Pokemon trainer's popularity is not his own but the accumulation of his pokemon team. The first gen starters are the most popular set by far as characters like squirtle and Charizard are still making dents in polls as far as popularity is considered. Plus The specific trainer model (Red) has been revisited more times than any other main character (about 7 appearance I believe) within the pokemon games. Furthermore I don't see him being removed for the mechanic alone. That is competive thinking logic, which isn't necessarily in line with Sakurai. The Trainer showcases the essence of what pokemon is, and I don't see Sakurai removing that. Now if another trainer is revealed then I'm assured that Red will be out, I just don't personally see that happening.

Of course all of this based mostly on personal opinion so I could very well be wrong on the majority of it.
 

TheTuninator

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Jigglypuff being one of the new Fairy types probably makes her considerably safer than she was a few days ago.

Also, seniority may well be a bad thing for Fire Emblem characters, if Brawl is anything to go by. :p Ike definitely won't go easily, though, as he is quite popular among FE and Smash fans alike.

I can't imagine that they would cut PT given Pokemon's incredible popularity. Worst case, I can see them rotating him for a later gen, but cutting PT outright? Definitely not.
 

Homelessvagrant

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Yes but being Fairy type doesn't really speak out for Jigglypuff herself but more so for the direction pokemon is headed. There's still way too many better candidates for smash than her (though it's hard to say because I do absolutely love jiggs ingame). If Jiggs does make it in, it'll be more so do to her role in senoirity in smash/ease of inclusion than anything else.

Honestly I have no clue how Fire emblem will be repped in Smash 4. I'm convinced that they'll have three reps and I feel like Ike will come back, but I'll admit I'm totally basing my judgement on gut feeling.

As for Pt I hope they stick with Red on this one. If Sakurai decides to go with the 'most current' route it'll be a sad day for myself. As a big pokemon advocate I don't believe any other trainer could represent the series as well as Red and the original three. Gens will come and go but the first gen will always have this sort of iconic prowness.
 
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