Do the 64 and Melee veterans have outdated and/or inaccurate portrayals?

Quillion

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I guess what they could do is just take the current Final Smash, add an explosion to the end, and boom, Catastropika.

They're just the same move, just with one having Z-power. It's nothing like Zelda losing her Light Arrow entirely.
 

Quillion

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You know something funny? People seem to rag on DK and Ganon for having meager-to-no changes to bring them closer to canon. Just the lack of one projectile will lead fans to call "unfaithful".

But NO ONE seems to care about Zelda losing her Light Bow entirely. Isn't that supposed to be her signature weapon now? Yet everyone side-eyes it.
 

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You know something funny? People seem to rag on DK and Ganon for having meager-to-no changes to bring them closer to canon. Just the lack of one projectile will lead fans to call "unfaithful".

But NO ONE seems to care about Zelda losing her Light Bow entirely. Isn't that supposed to be her signature weapon now? Yet everyone side-eyes it.
True. It depends on the agenda at the time.

I'm not stickler for canon so I don't really care that much. As a side note, I like her current FS more than the old one.
 

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You know something funny? People seem to rag on DK and Ganon for having meager-to-no changes to bring them closer to canon. Just the lack of one projectile will lead fans to call "unfaithful".

But NO ONE seems to care about Zelda losing her Light Bow entirely. Isn't that supposed to be her signature weapon now? Yet everyone side-eyes it.
Yes, but she also got the power of sealing.
I don't think I need to tell you that people kinda remember her for that too.
 

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You know something funny? People seem to rag on DK and Ganon for having meager-to-no changes to bring them closer to canon. Just the lack of one projectile will lead fans to call "unfaithful".

But NO ONE seems to care about Zelda losing her Light Bow entirely. Isn't that supposed to be her signature weapon now? Yet everyone side-eyes it.
IMO, Twilight Princess Ganondorf fits Captain Falcon's moveset better than Ocarina of Time's Ganondorf (especially with the Flame Choke) Wasn't Ocarina of Time Ganondorf chosen for Melee because the model was immediately available from the Spaceworld demo? Don't quote me on that though, it could just be a rumor...
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Anyhow, I would argue that the Triforce of Wisdom is equally important to Zelda's Light Arrows in terms of Zelda's character.
 

Quillion

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So why do people want DK's animations to be updated to modern standards while functionally remaining the same while no one wants Zelda to have her Light Bow. If I recall Zelda only seals evil away twice while Zelda wields the Light Bow three times. Yet the former is largely preferred.
 

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So why do people want DK's animations to be updated to modern standards while functionally remaining the same while no one wants Zelda to have her Light Bow. If I recall Zelda only seals evil away twice while Zelda wields the Light Bow three times. Yet the former is largely preferred.
I can't really speak for other people. Another probable reason they changed is because it was too functionally similar to Link's Ancient Arrow, which is arguably more important to BOTW Link then the Light Arrows are to ALBW Zelda. It all really depends on the incarnation the characters are based on in each Smash game...
 

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:ultness:: As a Ness enthusiast, am actually glad they decided to change up that headbut U Air. He got way more PSI-related attacks ever since Smash 4, and Brawl did a lot to flair them up as well. He hasn't used his own PSI ever since Smash 64, but I don't care about that at this point. Ness is cool, he uses offensive PSI, a PSI barrier attack, his bat and his yo-yo. So he's overall really well done. I personally would change his Forward Tilt and Dash Attack to bat attacks as well honestly as to give him more disjointed attacks, but hey, can't complain.
As a Ness main making his forward tilt into a bat attack with disjoint would be a dream come true. I’m cool with his dash attack though. Imagine his ftilt being a disjointed bat attack tho. He’d be better than he already is and he’s already really good
 

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As a Ness main making his forward tilt into a bat attack with disjoint would be a dream come true. I’m cool with his dash attack though. Imagine his ftilt being a disjointed bat attack tho. He’d be better than he already is and he’s already really good
I think I would keep that age old F Air, it's real good ever since Smash 4. I love what they did with N Air as well. And yesss a bat F Tilt would be amazing!
 

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I think I would keep that age old F Air, it's real good ever since Smash 4. I love what they did with N Air as well. And yesss a bat F Tilt would be amazing!
Gotta keep the fair, the nair, the dash attack, and everything else the same. An ftilt bat would make an already very good character absolutely monsterous. The one area Ness is a little lacking is his tilts. Just imagine how much better that one option would make him
 

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Fox, Falco, Samus, Zelda, and Ganondorf would definitely be different since those characters have gotten so many great tools throughout the years, and Sheik wouldn't even exist.

But how would the 20 other characters be different? Most of them are short on canonical material to begin with.

But I agree that there is a massive ethics issue when it comes to giving veterans massive updates. There's no denying that they could overhaul the veterans if they wanted to, but with the risk of fans raising a big stink, the real question is if they should do so.

I honestly think Bowser's Smash 4 revamp and Link's Ultimate revamp overstepped that boundary, and I wish they would go back to the way I wanted them, so even I'm in the camp that's against vet overhaul.
You mean Sheik would be Impa.

Samus could use the overhaul the most. Her fighter has never quite clicked to play well.
 

Quillion

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You mean Sheik would be Impa.
Nah, I still don't think Impa is fighter material. She's just too inconsistent to be reliably represented as a composite like the other Zelda characters are.

Samus could use the overhaul the most. Her fighter has never quite clicked to play well.
Samus ripping a few moves from Mii Gunner is the only semi-revamp that's necessary, IMO. Link, Bowser, and Ganondorf were changed for the worse, really.
 

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I would like to see Samus's Jab and Down Smash changed, but I'm ok with the rest of her.

And I actually think that Ganondorf and The Bowz are currently the best versions of themselves, while Link got a side grade as he gained some tools and lost others. But this last one felt justified because there are already two other Links who carry the same move set, so the devs probably just wanted to differentiate him from the rest.

And yet they give OoT Ganondorf the sword he used in a tech demo because Canondorfs were crying "Sword! Sword! Sword!".
Ganondorf is no stranger to using sword though. Even if he never used one in his Ocarina of Time fight, his other incarnations can.
In the OoT manga, he actually engages in a sword fight with Link. And yeah, I know that's not part of the main canon, but that doesn't stop it from being a potential piece of referential material in Smash.
 
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Quillion

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I would like to see Samus's Jab and Down Smash changed, but I'm ok with the rest of her.

And I actually think that Ganondorf and The Bowz are currently the best versions of themselves, while Link got a side grade as he gained some tools and lost others. But this last one felt justified because there are already two other Links who carry the same move set, so the devs probably just wanted to differentiate him from the rest.



Ganondorf is no stranger to using sword though. Even if he never used one in his Ocarina of Time fight, his other incarnations can.
In the OoT manga, he actually engages in a sword fight with Link. And yeah, I know that's not part of the main canon, but that doesn't stop it from being a potential piece of referential material in Smash.
I don't give a crap. Link, Ganondorf, and Bowser just aren't fun to me anymore. Link doesn't feel like his more iconic classic form, Bowser is a dumb wrestler instead of a primal beast back in Melee, and Ganondorf was far more fun without those shoehorned sword moves that only a vocal minority wanted.

Yes, they're objectively small changes, but they aggravate me.
 

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I feel like there's a certain amount of Grandfather Clause in effect. Not just movesets, but also the characters themselves. For example, if Smash were a recently introduced series, what are the chances that Jigglypuff would be included? Probably nil. The reason Jigglypuff was included in Smash 64 was because the recurring Jigglypuff in the Pokemon anime was a popular character at the time, and even though it was considered to be cut from Melee, it was kept because it was one of the original 12, who at this point are probably immortalized.

As far as movesets go, they probably could provide older characters with consistency updates that overhaul their appearances and movesets to be more in line with recent portrayals. But while there have been some updates (like basing Link off of his BotW appearance and giving Luigi his Poltergust 3000), I feel there are three main factors keeping them from going "whole hog;"
  1. First, quality control testing: overhauling a character's moveset requires that said moveset be tested to ensure it isn't too strong or too weak, plus coding the moves to begin with, all of which takes time.
  2. Smash Bros. is intended as a tribute to video game history, and keeping older moves and portrayals while mixing in newer elements allows more periods to be represented. Link got an overhaul to represent BotW, but that's likely because Young Link and Toon Link, who have similar movesets otherwise and represent other points in Legend of Zelda's history, are also present, so having regular Link have his normal moveset would've incurred a lot of redundancy. This way, more different periods in that franchise's history are presented. Even then, his standard outfit is still available as a palette swap.
  3. Many older elements stay around long after they're rendered outdated, simply because they've come to be what we expect from Smash and it would cause disruption if they changed too much. For example, Pikachu having Skull Bash as his side B: it wasn't even legal for Pikachu from Gen III to pre-VC Gold and Silver Gen VII to know the move (due to being a TM in Gold and Silver and Gen II not being transferrable to Gen III for technical reasons). If Smash were a more recent game, Pikachu would probably have Iron Tail in his moveset, since that move has become iconic on Pikachu, especially Ash's Pikachu, since after Melee. But Skull Bash stays, just because Pikachu has always had it since Melee, the game that propelled the series to competitive superstardom, and it would be weird for his side B to be anything else.
 
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I feel like there's a certain amount of Grandfather Clause in effect. Not just movesets, but also the characters themselves. For example, if Smash were a recently introduced series, what are the chances that Jigglypuff would be included? Probably nil. The reason Jigglypuff was included in Smash 64 was because the recurring Jigglypuff in the Pokemon anime was a popular character at the time, and even though it was considered to be cut from Melee, it was kept because it was one of the original 12, who at this point are probably immortalized.

As far as movesets go, they probably could provide older characters with consistency updates that overhaul their appearances and movesets to be more in line with recent portrayals. But while there have been some updates (like basing Link off of his BotW appearance and giving Luigi his Poltergust 3000), I feel there are three main factors keeping them from going "whole hog;"
  1. First, quality control testing: overhauling a character's moveset requires that said moveset be tested to ensure it isn't too strong or too weak, plus coding the moves to begin with, all of which takes time.
  2. Smash Bros. is intended as a tribute to video game history, and keeping older moves and portrayals while mixing in newer elements allows more periods to be represented. Link got an overhaul to represent BotW, but that's likely because Young Link and Toon Link, who have similar movesets otherwise and represent other points in Legend of Zelda's history, are also present, so having regular Link have his normal moveset would've incurred a lot of redundancy. This way, more different periods in that franchise's history are presented. Even then, his standard outfit is still available as a palette swap.
  3. Many older elements stay around long after they're rendered outdated, simply because they've come to be what we expect from Smash and it would cause disruption if they changed too much. For example, Pikachu having Skull Bash as his side B: it wasn't even legal for Pikachu from Gen III to pre-VC Gold and Silver Gen VII to know the move (due to being a TM in Gold and Silver and Gen II not being transferrable to Gen III for technical reasons). If Smash were a more recent game, Pikachu would probably have Iron Tail in his moveset, since that move has become iconic on Pikachu, especially Ash's Pikachu, since after Melee. But Skull Bash stays, just because Pikachu has always had it since Melee, the game that propelled the series to competitive superstardom, and it would be weird for his side B to be anything else.
The thing about the outdated character selections like Jigglypuff are honestly not too big a deal. People just don't like characters being cut.

However, if you want to make a moveset for them, and it's outdated, I say go as far as you can with even the less relevant characters. Why shouldn't Pikachu have Iron Tail instead of Skull Bash? Why would it be weird to have? He already has it in Pokken. Honestly, I think making each character unique is a good litmus test for how balls to the wall you can make your character. This is what I do my redesign threads for.

My latest one added to Little Mac's moveset the ability to get Star Punches like from the NES and Wii Punch-Out games, something that is not represented. It adds to Little Mac's canon representation while also bringing a new mechanic to Smash. People always argue about canon vs gameplay, when the secret is you can do both.

Falco could take a page from Rivals of Aether's Wrastor, and have aerial smash attacks. Not exactly canon, but functional and fits Falco's personality and expertise in air to air combat.

Now for your point on staying outdated for consistency within the series, I say that it's treated as too big a deal. For example, most Link players were on board with the new Remote Bomb Rune move not only because it's more canon to BoTW, but it's just a fun new move to play with and experiment with, consistency be damned. If you replace old, outdated things with canon things that are more interesting or functional, people won't care much.

The only point I would agree with is the work and time it takes to test these new moves.
 
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BonafideFella

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For some reason, people seem to want Luigi to scrap his weird, quirky eternal understudy personality for more Luigi's Mansion representation.
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Why is that? Wasn't Luigi's entire schtick since his inception that he was an alternate Mario? Why throw all those interesting ideas out the window for a vacuum and another stereotypical scaredy~cat character? I'm all for the Poltergust as a grab because it makes sense (as it is a vacuum) but doesn't having it as a standard grab which can be activated at any time undermine its potential as a Final Smash? I know I can get really persnickety when it comes to canon representation, but Luigi was and will always be an alternate Mario (the second banana, if you will) and his Smash portrayal should reflect that.
 
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There’s only a couple things in Smash that bother me. DK, Bowser and Diddy having real animal sounds and Ike being a heavy slow dude with no projectile special.
 

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There’s only a couple things in Smash that bother me. DK, Bowser and Diddy having real animal sounds and Ike being a heavy slow dude with no projectile special.
Can't speak for Ike since I know next to nothing about Fire Emblem. But the other three tie into my "Grandfather Clause" point above and have a couple contributing explanations:
  • Firstly, they may have been given realistic sounds to make them be taken more seriously and, in the case of Bowser and DK, make them more intimidating to go along with their size.
  • Second, in the first Smash, DK might have been given realistic noises since before, he hadn't really been "voiced," as in the Donkey Kong Country games his sounds were gorilla sounds (Donkey Kong 64, which gave him human-like grunts, didn't come out until later that year). Same thing with Bowser: back in 2001, he wasn't commonly voiced.
By SSBB, both characters had established voices that they could use instead of these grunts. However, since they became known in Melee for their animalistic grunts, those were retained instead, because that's just how things have always been done in Smash, and that persists to this day. The reason it extends to characters like Diddy and K. Rool is a result of this quirk simply being extended to them.
 

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I didn't look at this whole thread, so I don't know if its been said but Jigglypuffs ultimate makes no sense really. The only time we really saw a giant jigglypuff is from the first season in the anime where the crew visited The Ancient Puzzle of Pokémopolis, where pokemon were dressed in what appears to be very cool tattoos, than a giant jigglypuff shows up with a sing so loud that it puts everyone to sleep. So wouldn't it make more sense to have Jigglypuff turn a little bit bigger and give it a sleep ultimate similar to daisy and peach?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Jiogglypuff can't just blow up like a big balloon.
 
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Blaster is pretty much a mandatory weapon for a mercenary in an space setting like in Star Wars, Guardians of the Galaxy, etc.
That said, I do wish the other Star Fox characters in the game used OTHER weapons from Assault rather than also using blasters.

Give Falco the Sniper Rifle and Wolf the Machine Gun instead.

Anything to increase the variety between Star Fox characters.
 

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I didn't look at this whole thread, so I don't know if its been said but Jigglypuffs ultimate makes no sense really. The only time we really saw a giant jigglypuff is from the first season in the anime where the crew visited The Ancient Puzzle of Pokémopolis, where pokemon were dressed in what appears to be very cool tattoos, than a giant jigglypuff shows up with a sing so loud that it puts everyone to sleep. So wouldn't it make more sense to have Jigglypuff turn a little bit bigger and give it a sleep ultimate similar to daisy and peach?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Jiogglypuff can't just blow up like a big balloon.
They... might have been strapped for ideas for Jigglypuff and just winged it. As I said before, Jigglypuff would likely have been long since cut were it not part of the original 12, so they just did as best they could.
 

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For some reason, people seem to want Luigi to scrap his weird, quirky eternal understudy personality for more Luigi's Mansion representation.
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Why is that? Wasn't Luigi's entire schtick since his inception that he was an alternate Mario? Why throw all those interesting ideas out the window for a vacuum and another stereotypical scaredy~cat character? I'm all for the Poltergust as a grab because it makes sense (as it is a vacuum) but doesn't having it as a standard grab which can be activated at any time undermine its potential as a Final Smash? I know I can get really persnickety when it comes to canon representation, but Luigi was and will always be an alternate Mario (the second banana, if you will) and his Smash portrayal should reflect that.
In my opinion, the more Luigi's Mansion-based he is, the better. That's where Luigi got a lot of his current canonical characterization, and I'm thrilled the Poltergust is more than just a Final Smash now. If it were entirely up to me I'd give him a Disable-like stun move with the flashlight as well, maybe replacing the Cyclone. You'd be able to charge it for greater potency.

Flashlight to sweetspot Super Jump Punch sounds hilarious.

That said, I do wish the other Star Fox characters in the game used OTHER weapons from Assault rather than also using blasters.

Give Falco the Sniper Rifle and Wolf the Machine Gun instead.

Anything to increase the variety between Star Fox characters.
I think Wolf's blaster is fine, personally. It feels heavy, and having a bayonet hitbox helps set it apart.
 

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In my opinion, the more Luigi's Mansion-based he is, the better. That's where Luigi got a lot of his current canonical characterization, and I'm thrilled the Poltergust is more than just a Final Smash now. If it were entirely up to me I'd give him a Disable-like stun move with the flashlight as well, maybe replacing the Cyclone. You'd be able to charge it for greater potency.

Flashlight to sweetspot Super Jump Punch sounds hilarious.


I think Wolf's blaster is fine, personally. It feels heavy, and having a bayonet hitbox helps set it apart.
You forget one thing though: Luigi's Mansion is merely a spinoff. It doesn't deserve to be represented beyond some small things and maybe a stage.

Luigi himself is still a main series Mario character, so the lion's share of his moveset still needs to take from the main series.
 

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You forget one thing though: Luigi's Mansion is merely a spinoff. It doesn't deserve to be represented beyond some small things and maybe a stage.

Luigi himself is still a main series Mario character, so the lion's share of his moveset still needs to take from the main series.
Luigi's Mansion is far more than a simple spin-off series. It's a viable franchise in its own right, and Nintendo certainly treats it as such. It has two main series titles, a third in development, a remake of the first game, and it's own arcade spin-off. It's frequently referenced in other Mario media, as well. You rescue Luigi from a haunted house galaxy in Super Mario Galaxy. Mario Kart has done tracks based off of it. Mario Super Sluggers had the mansion act as Luigi's personal stadium. King Boo became a regular attendee in the spin-offs. E. Gadd made appearances in Sunshine and the Mario and Luigi games. Nintendoland billed it as its own separate and distinct franchise. Smash itself dedicated half of Simon and Richter's trailer to what was basically a Luigi's Mansion homage.

It is just as viable as a franchise as WarioWare or Yoshi's Island. Like Yoshi with Yoshi's Island, Luigi is a Mario character at his core, but he's also fundamentally tied to Luigi's Mansion, and it shows in his non-Smash appearances.
 

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That said, I do wish the other Star Fox characters in the game used OTHER weapons from Assault rather than also using blasters.

Give Falco the Sniper Rifle and Wolf the Machine Gun instead.

Anything to increase the variety between Star Fox characters.
Ehhhhhh, I don't know. Personally, I wouldn't do it because because all of their weapons are sufficiently diverse in execution and function.

I don't give a crap. Link, Ganondorf, and Bowser just aren't fun to me anymore. Link doesn't feel like his more iconic classic form, Bowser is a dumb wrestler instead of a primal beast back in Melee, and Ganondorf was far more fun without those shoehorned sword moves that only a vocal minority wanted.

Yes, they're objectively small changes, but they aggravate me.
They are actually still very fun, particularly Bowser and Ganondorf who are more improved than they were before. I never got that disdain you had for their current versions that it doesn't seem to go past a gut feeling.
 
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They are actually still very fun, particularly Bowser and Ganondorf who are more improved than they were before. I never got that disdain you had for their current versions that it doesn't seem to go past a gut feeling.
As much as I like Quillion Quillion , I still can't understand his disdain for the new Ganon and Bowser that didn't amount to much else but "it isn't like how it was before". Bowser, besides his speed, has functionally the same playstyle as in Melee and Brawl, just more effective. I get an uneasy feeling that his gripe is that they don't feel the same to him because he's used to them being ineffective characters. It's like people saying they missed Fox being a broken character rather than an actually balanced character, but in reverse.
 

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As much as I like Quillion Quillion Quillion Quillion , I still can't understand his disdain for the new Ganon and Bowser that didn't amount to much else but "it isn't like how it was before".
Hey, I simply enjoyed the characters more in previous incarnations with Bowser's primalness and Ganondorf's pure punching. Do you really need a more complex reason?

Yes, I acknowledge that people want the characters to have their iconic moves. I want them for Samus mostly.

But enjoyment value can't just be reduced to canonicity just as much as it can't be reduced to competitive viability. Sometimes I just enjoy how moves look and act more when they're not trying to be canon.

Yeah, I'm more attached to older versions of characters because I'm used to them. So what? It's just a preference that I'm vocal about.
 

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I'm just glad they handled catering to the sword crowd the way they did rather than going from Falcondorf to Ikeondorf.
 
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Still doesn't make it a good decision, though. His niche as the slow, but heavy brawler is damaged by his sword now.
I still don't see it. His sword swings are slow and heavy attacks, and it's only three attacks amidst a slew of punches, kicks, and full body blows and stomps. Plus, as it's been shown in competitive matches, his new smashes help in his ability to catch jumps and tech chase far better than his old ones.
 

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I still don't see it. His sword swings are slow and heavy attacks, and it's only three attacks amidst a slew of punches, kicks, and full body blows and stomps. Plus, as it's been shown in competitive matches, his new smashes help in his ability to catch jumps and tech chase far better than his old ones.
I don't care about competitive viability in this context. People said that giving Ganondorf a sword would alienate fans before the fact, and it's happening to me.

He was a fun character disrespecting moves by "powering through" with no range. It really reflected his nature as a calculating manipulator in canon. His Smashes helped reflect this playstyle by killing really early with little range.

Now with his sword, his Smashes are big and safe (relatively speaking). It's just not the Ganondorf I know.
 

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I don't care about competitive viability in this context. People said that giving Ganondorf a sword would alienate fans before the fact, and it's happening to me.

He was a fun character disrespecting moves by "powering through" with no range. It really reflected his nature as a calculating manipulator in canon. His Smashes helped reflect this playstyle by killing really early with little range.

Now with his sword, his Smashes are big and safe (relatively speaking). It's just not the Ganondorf I know.
Second paragraph is were this kind of becomes abstract. It just seems like a giant pet peeve rather than an issue with rhyme or reason.

I do care for the fun factor but also for the viability. I find myself using his Smash attacks more often than before thanks to that range; and when I land one of those it just feels so satisfying. They made him more efficient and more fun to play with.
 
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Quillion

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Second paragraph is were this kind of becomes abstract. It just seems like a giant pet peeve rather than an issue with rhyme or reason.
It kinda is, yes. I'm just bringing it up so that people know that not every "canonizing change" is necessarily a completely acceptable one.
 

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Mar 23, 2019
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332
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Beyond space-time and worlds 'o' mine...
Here's my redesigns for :ultyoshi: and :ultganondorf::
Yoshi
1. Egg Roll is changed to his Neutral Special. (Same as Jigglypuff's Rollout but faster and controllable)

2. Egg Throw is now Side special.
3. Due to Egg Throw becoming a side special, Yoshi has a new Up Special and that is "Dragon Wings"
4. Yoshi can eat items and turn these into eggs for throwing. (Can do this with his grab)
5. Has a tether recovery with his tongue and can wall jump by clinging to said tongue from Odyssey.

6. New Final Smash is Metal Eggdozer. (Bounces around the screen until it gets faster and harder to avoid)
Ganon
1. CD-I design from Faces of Evil.
2. Has Pig Ganon's trident from Link to the Past.

3. Neutral Special is Dead man's Volley.
4. Side Special is Trident Throw.
5. New Final Smash is "YOU MUST DIE!".
6. Says "NO! Not in the pit! IT BURNS!" when hit by fire.

(Don't worry Yoshi's Egg Lay returns as his custom special)
 

Xelrog

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 24, 2019
Messages
851
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Battle Ground, WA
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SW 2367 4933 3404
On some level, yes, they do. But thankfully the devs know that completely reworking a character from the ground up is a mistake, particularly when there are many dedicated players of said character over the course of the franchise's history. Throwing out the current version completely would be the same as cutting the character from the game.

It has to be a gradual transition, which is something pretty much all the older characters have experienced from game to game. More notably the clones than others.
 
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
3,216
On some level, yes, they do. But thankfully the devs know that completely reworking a character from the ground up is a mistake, particularly when there are many dedicated players of said character over the course of the franchise's history. Throwing out the current version completely would be the same as cutting the character from the game.

It has to be a gradual transition, which is something pretty much all the older characters have experienced from game to game. More notably the clones than others.
Even then, some of the "gradual" changes towards canon aren't really desirable. Smash 4-on Bowser just isn't MY Bowser, for one.
 
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