Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Deleted member]

Brb going back in time to tell my past self that half joking about the 6th character being Sora after some unexpected negotiations was actually 100% correct

 

[DarthEnderX]

And finally, with 1512 Spirits collected and max leveled, my collection is complete!

Now if I could just clear a 9.9 Classic mode, my challenges would be complete.

 

[Jerry98]

So... last day of this thread?
I didn't participate very much, especially in the last months, but it was fun.

 

[Momotsuki]

"Sorry, Reimu didn't make it. But that's okay; we got Steve, and we got Kazuya. No, not Heihachi. It- it's complicated. Just hold on a bit, and don't get your hopes up for FP5. It ain't good."
- Present Momo, talking to late-2019 Momo.

 

[Firox]

Imagine the timeline where Kazuya was indeed our last fighter.

Not gonna lie, I know others would have been hyped, but it would have been an all time low for me. Like, as in Wolf, Bayo and Byleth being god-tier in comparison.

 

[Momotsuki]

Not gonna lie, I know others would have been hyped, but it would have been an all time low for me. Like, as in Wolf, Bayo and Byleth being god-tier in comparison.

Could - could you elaborate? And you - you have an issue with Wolf?

 

[DarthEnderX]

Might mess around and become a Waluigi supporter to supplement my usual Splatoon shilling (and no, just Octoling won’t be enough)

I will never be free to "mess around" as long as the checklists continue to go unchecked!

The mindgoblins won't allow it...

 

[Firox]

Could - could you elaborate? And you - you have an issue with Wolf?

Oh, hell no. I love Wolf, as evidenced by my maining him in Brawl. I actually voted for him to return in the official ballot (along with my votes for Isaac and Geno on two other computer/IP addresses). I guess he was the wrong example to include (though he would still be god-tier next to Kazuya). What I meant to say is, no matter how underwhelming other people have thought the other "ending" characters to be, I would have thought Kazuya the worst for me because I had literally zero emotional connection to his character. Prior to his reveal, the only Tekken character I knew of was Jin, so when Kazuya dropped, I was like "Who the actual **** is this?" Not exactly the highest note to end an entire game cycle on. I get that Tekken is a big deal and that Kazuya is noteworthy for the FGC as a whole, but as I said, I feel absolutely nothing for him. So glad Sora was the last character instead.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Before this thread gets iced, I'd just like to say this one thing:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

From The Second Ultimate Square Enix Character Argument:

Anyways, as well all know, Fighters Pass 2 has 6 fighters instead of 5. This fact was prominently introduced and discussed in Byleth's Sakurai Presents presentation. I believe that this could be due to the fact that negotiations for a character who had previously been rejected (which we know has occurred due to Sakurai's book) suddenly became available, and Nintendo jumped on it...

Sora had immense popularity during the ballot period, with the Kingdom Hearts community rallying together for Sora's inclusion. It's not hard to believe that Nintendo tried for Sora then, but negotiations fell through for one reason or another. They drop the issue until Fighters Pass 2, when Disney has done a 180 on video games following the mass success of Kingdom Hearts 3 and is looking to promote the series in the largest gaming crossover of all time. Nintendo approaches Sakurai like they did for Dragon Quest, and they go for it despite having already decided Fighters Pass 2 in its entirety. Since it's DLC, all they have to do is tack on another fighter to the pass and promote as such...

This explanation accounts for Disney's role in negotiations while also accommodating the timeline of Fighters Pass 2 being decided. In the initial decisions, Nintendo had a very thin window to negotiate with Disney if they decided to do so, probably for the second or third time. By going outside of that timeline, however, and explaining Disney's turnaround on negotiations as being due to a desire to capitalize off the success of the Kingdom Hearts series after KH3, you can justify Sora's inclusion as the special sixth fighter in Fighters Pass 2.

I WAS 100% CORRECT (besides the turnaround being due to a chance meeting but that's besides the point)

KNEEL BEFORE ME, THE GOD OF SMASH ULTIMATE SPECULATION

 

[Firox]

Before this thread gets iced, I'd just like to say this one thing:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

From The Second Ultimate Square Enix Character Argument:


I WAS 100% CORRECT (besides the turnaround being due to a chance meeting but that's besides the point)

KNEEL BEFORE ME, THE GOD OF SMASH ULTIMATE SPECULATION

Long live Britannia! Long live Lelouch!

 

[Colololin]

Just to clarify, is there anything about Steve having been planned for the first pass? Sakurai said during the Smash 4 days that the process of creating a character can take 1 year so in theory Byleth started development after the game came out meaning it is very possible Steve was planned for the first pass but withheld because of Vergeben's leaks.

 

[HYRULESHERO42]

Last day of the thread - To all the retro characters not yet remembered in the Smash Bros series, we do not forget you and when the time comes, we will campaign for you once again.

Let’s hope this site (and all of us) are still around when the next cycle of speculation begins somewhere down the road.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Just to clarify, is there anything about Steve having been planned for the first pass? Sakurai said during the Smash 4 days that the process of creating a character can take 1 year so in theory Byleth started development after the game came out meaning it is very possible Steve was planned for the first pass but withheld because of Vergeben's leaks.

The only thing we officially know about Steve is that he took around five years of discussion, we don't know if he was actually planned for FP1 as well. I think he probably was one of the few characters that were planned to be sold after FP1 before an entire FP2 was greenlit.

 

[Nekoo]

Before this thread gets iced, I'd just like to say this one thing:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

From The Second Ultimate Square Enix Character Argument:


I WAS 100% CORRECT (besides the turnaround being due to a chance meeting but that's besides the point)

KNEEL BEFORE ME, THE GOD OF SMASH ULTIMATE SPECULATION

Do I have the right to flex too when I said the same thing since the moment FP2 was announced?

 

[Speed Weed]

Heyyyyyyy yeah, I guess today's the day this thread goes kaput, isn't it?

It's been a fun ride with you people. I don't have much to say because I'm Not Good at these posts, but I do hope Smashboards stays alive. I joined this site relatively late in the game's speculation cycle, so it'll be interesting to now live on this unknown territory where everything has basically reset. Very excited to see where speculation goes with this in mind. sukapon resurgence lets ****ing GOOOOOOOOOOO

Anyway, yeah, I'm not planning on going anywhere. I have a creation thread to run, and I haven't been here for that long so I've still got plenty of energy left in me as far as speculation goes. And I mean, this place needs someone to spread the good word of Opa-Opa.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Do I have the right to flex too when I said the same thing since the moment FP2 was announced?

Hell yeah brother

 

[RoboFist]

Just gonna drop this here for all the conspiracy theorists/revisionists who think B&K only got into Smash because Minecraft content wasn't finished in time for FP1 and B&K was a consolation prize...

It honestly makes me wonder just how many votes the duo got if Sakurai is mentioning that fact in his column. That's really satisfying to know.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

This is my first time ever posting in the second iteration of the Ultimate Newcomer/DLC discussion thread. I have basically been in the background for speculation in regards to Pass 2. Of my predictions, they were mostly wrong, with the only two possibilities I had ended up happening being Steve and Sora.

Regardless, I am here to say I have a very important message to which I want to share with this community. I have been a part of this site for over 15 years. I have seen many things unfold during that time. I want to say I think I am basically done with speculation and character support. Do not get me wrong, there are still some additions that I would like to see happen, but I would say Ultimate has very much satisfied me.

However, I still want to write about Smash and its content, just not about speculation. I prepared a sort of farewell essay that gives me thoughts about the conclusion to Ultimate and my hopes for the future. My hope is that despite the length, that many of you will read it in its entirety. I absolutely encourage anyone who reads it to please send their thoughts and ideas about what I wrote as a personal message to me. I really want to hear the many stories that Ultimate has behind it.

Without further ado, here is my "farewell" essay:

Spoiler: "Farewell" essay

Spoiler: "Farewell" essay

As I said, I implore anyone that reads this to share their thoughts via a personal message. I am curious to hear what you think. I apologize for the length. Thank you very much for your time and patience. I am blessed to have met the people here that I have. You have helped me grow in many ways, and I am grateful for what I have learned and experienced during my 20 years as a participant in Smash speculation. I hope those who continue on will similarly be blessed with friendship and personal growth, and that your personal Smash desires (or at least some of them) are fulfilled in the future.

Thank you for the shoutout Chrono. I'm been glad to have become your friend throughout this cycle. I've always looked up to the "old guard" on this site like you, Opossum , Swamp Sensei , etc. since I was here for Smash 4 Speculation, so for you to consider my writings meaningful and worth sharing is incredibly validating.

My initial Sora essay is already up, though I already have some ideas for edits and additions (for example, I forgot to mention that my morning alarm and ringtone are also based around Kingdom Hearts). I was definitely on a time crunch when writing, so with more time I think it can be a lot better.

As for Joker, I'll probably write about him at a later time. Maybe I'll write about both Joker and Sora together, since those were my only two wanted characters this speculation cycle. To begin and end Smash DLC with my two most wanted characters is a surreal experience, and one that I certainly have a lot of thoughts about. However, I'll save those for another day.

For now, I'll just say thank you again, and here's to (hopefully) more long-form speculation going forward!

 

[osby]

Ultimate is the first Smash game that I participated in its speculation from start to finish and the reason I joined Smashboards in the first place so even if it wasn't such an phenomenal game, I think this game period will always be special for me. Even though it has its lows, I'll miss predicting characters as it made them even more exciting when they were finally revealed. I never really predicted any character (unless you count me rooting for Byleth and Steve) but it was still an experience to be a part of the ride.

I'll stay on this site, though. I met a lot of cool people in here when being overly passionate about a funny fighting game and I hope we meet again on next Smash game's speculating thread.

It's been a pleasure.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Sweet, sappy, time?

Man, it's been a ride, hasn't it? Really happy to have endured it with y'all. Really made the wait much easy and made some great friends along the way.

And of course, we got an amazing game out of it, currently my favorite game of all time in fact. Crazy to think about the lineup this game got. Every single addition from prior installments, some of the highest requested characters ever, the character from the game that inspired Smash, the star of the single best selling game period, and a character owned by stinkin' Disney. I swear, Ultimate's newcomer lineup feels like a fever dream.

Thank you all for this 3 year long experience here. Thank you frequenters, thank you guests and lurkers, and thank you the rest of SB staff. It's been an honor. Hope to see y'all again for Smash 6.

Anywho, I do intend to stick around here. You can find me in the Social Thread as per usual, and I'll probably frequent the "New Smash" thread as well. Really hope the lot of y'all will stick around too. It won't be the same without y'all.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

View attachment 335041

Hell yeah brother

Then there is me in the corner who let the haters get to me and made me doubt a character I wanted will get in only for me to win in the end

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Just to clarify, is there anything about Steve having been planned for the first pass? Sakurai said during the Smash 4 days that the process of creating a character can take 1 year so in theory Byleth started development after the game came out meaning it is very possible Steve was planned for the first pass but withheld because of Vergeben's leaks.

I also read something about him and Hero being planned or at least considered for Base game. Sephiroth too.

 

[Colololin]

The only thing we officially know about Steve is that he took around five years of discussion, we don't know if he was actually planned for FP1 as well. I think he probably was one of the few characters that were planned to be sold after FP1 before an entire FP2 was greenlit.

This is what makes me think it. Steve leaked a lot, LOT earlier than stuff that was even included in the base game. The problem with Minecraft is leakers were toing and froing as to whether Steve was playable or it was just smaller stuff like Miis/spirits.

 

[N3ON]

So, Sora was basically a Sonic situation, except instead of not being able to do DLC and thus delaying the game, they could just... add one more fighter to the post-launch plans.

Worth noting though is that without Sora, it doesn't mean the rest of the FP2 order would be the same. Though ending on Kazuya would be sufficiently... whelming to make sense.

 

[Theguy123]

With sora now being officially announced as quite difficult to get, I wonder how the list ranks in terms of most difficult to get to least difficult to get. Based on what we know I’d probably rank it as

Steve
Sora
Banjo
Sethiroth
Hero
Joker
Terry
kazuya
Byleth
Pyra and mythra
min min

 

[Momotsuki]

Just to clarify, is there anything about Steve having been planned for the first pass? Sakurai said during the Smash 4 days that the process of creating a character can take 1 year so in theory Byleth started development after the game came out meaning it is very possible Steve was planned for the first pass but withheld because of Vergeben's leaks.

If Steve was held back (there's no evidence of this beyond vague mentions of years-long negotiations, but it's certainly possible) it was because he was hell to develop. Veggie boy wasn't out here influencing decisions like that. No leaker was.

 

[Jocario Zero]

The end of an era, huh?

I will miss these discussions about possible future characters (and the millionth discussion about Fire Emblem).

 

[Momotsuki]

End of an era? Nah, it just means we modders oughta pick up the slack.

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

This is my first time ever posting in the second iteration of the Ultimate Newcomer/DLC discussion thread. I have basically been in the background for speculation in regards to Pass 2. Of my predictions, they were mostly wrong, with the only two possibilities I had ended up happening being Steve and Sora.

Regardless, I am here to say I have a very important message to which I want to share with this community. I have been a part of this site for over 15 years. I have seen many things unfold during that time. I want to say I think I am basically done with speculation and character support. Do not get me wrong, there are still some additions that I would like to see happen, but I would say Ultimate has very much satisfied me.

However, I still want to write about Smash and its content, just not about speculation. I prepared a sort of farewell essay that gives me thoughts about the conclusion to Ultimate and my hopes for the future. My hope is that despite the length, that many of you will read it in its entirety. I absolutely encourage anyone who reads it to please send their thoughts and ideas about what I wrote as a personal message to me. I really want to hear the many stories that Ultimate has behind it.

Without further ado, here is my "farewell" essay:

Spoiler: "Farewell" essay

Spoiler: "Farewell" essay

As I said, I implore anyone that reads this to share their thoughts via a personal message. I am curious to hear what you think. I apologize for the length. Thank you very much for your time and patience. I am blessed to have met the people here that I have. You have helped me grow in many ways, and I am grateful for what I have learned and experienced during my 20 years as a participant in Smash speculation. I hope those who continue on will similarly be blessed with friendship and personal growth, and that your personal Smash desires (or at least some of them) are fulfilled in the future.

As always, another essay by Chrono, and you never disappoint me.

Personally, i have my own stories to tell:

Personal stories, of course since you tagged me, i have to gush about Simon again. Since no one else in this website does, i am and will be the biggest Simon stan on this website.

For the record i am just gonna copy and paste what i said on the RTC rerates day.

Simon Belmont: The Face and the greatest hero of Castlevania.

Let me tell you a story. When i was a kid, i watched the AVGN a lot, it was one of my favorite things to see on the Web, and one day he reviewed the Castlevania series, among them he praised a little SNES game called Super Castlevania 4. I remember playing it before and while i liked it, i was a kid with the attention span of a goldfish, so that memory was erased. I decided to replay it after James's video on the game, and..................i fell in love.

Sometimes people talk about why i chose Simon, and why he is my favorite CV character when there are others like Alucard. Super Castlevania 4 is why, he is the hero of that game, that game is my favorite Castlevania game, my favorite SNES game and one of my favorite games of all time.

I see Simon Belmont as this epic hero who takes a no-nonsense approach, no witty one-liners, no getting beat up by random pedestrians on a Pub (AHEM NETFLIXVANIA SUCKS ASS AHEM) with a barbarian old-school asethetic, instead of the weird designs he would get later. I find his story ironic yet epic at the same time, as he basically didn't knew how he would compare to his ancestors, yet nowadays he is seen as the face of the Belmont family. Also i do have to mention that while SCIV is the reason i am so fond of Simon, Sharp X68000 is best Simon, no ifs and buts.

Anyway, as you can tell, i was already big into Castlevania by that time. Games that i played include CV1, CV3 (2 i would play much later, you can thank its reception for that) SCIV, Rondo of Blood, it's inferior SNES port, Circle of the Moon, Harmony of Dissonance, Aria of Sorrow, The Gameboy Games (the 1st one sucked so much i couldn't even bother finishing it, but the sequel was actually pretty good) and of course the overexposed SotN, which despite not me considering it the pinnacle of CV, it does live up to the hype.

As you can see, i consider myself a CV fan. I loved the music, i loved learning about the lore, i played basically every major 2D release (the only ones i unfortunately could not pick up are the DS games, a shame since i would love to play Dawn of Sorrow seeing how much i loved its predecessor) and even played some fangames. That "Castlevania Fighter" was far better than Judgement ever could be, it even included Castlevania 4 Simon with all his powers! too bad it got discontinued.

To put into perspective how much i loved Super Castlevania 4, i own 3 copies of this game. I have never even bothered to buy the Switch Ports of MK8, Tropical Freeze and Pikmin 3 despite me loving these games, yet i had no issue getting this game again TWICE. Then again, SCIV came bundled with the SNES Classic and CV Collection, so that's why i own 3 copies.

So you can guess that by 2013, after Mega Man was revealed (probably my favorite Gaming Character, period) i was in the Simon Train without stopping. Not only was Simon my favorite CV character, but i fully believed he was the only choice for Castlevania, he appeared in more CV games than any other, he was chosen in to be CV's ambassador in mutliple Konami Crossovers (it wasn't Alucard who went toe to toe with Optimus Prime, let me tell ya) and he was even technically relevant due to his appearance in Lords of Shadow: Mirror of Fate, so he checked all boxes.

However he had an uphill battle for him. Back in 2013/14 Smash was a veeery different envioroment compared to today. First Parties were the true stars, and guest characters were rare, and outside of Pac-Man, most of them were seen as unlikely or even impossible. Characters like Sora, Cloud, Kazuya, Steve were not even a blip on the radar, guests could only be in if they were very close to Nintendo or prominent on Nintendo consoles. Nowadays im actually starting to miss this era as i am not a fan of the "Smash is about gaming history" phase, but as someone who wanted Simon this definitely made it harder for him. Probably the biggest blow to him was Snake, as back then the 1 character per company fan-rule was seen as gospel. If you thought that people would consider Sephiroth, think again.

While Simon was not even talked about back in the day, i was a huge Simon Belmont supporter. I made multiple drawings on my textbooks sketching up Simon and how he would look like in Smash. His moves, his profile in the character page, his trophy (R.I.P Trophies) and so on. I even sketched up a Trailer for him that him saving Luigi. The fact that no one cared about him outside of [IMG alt="Arcadenik"]https://smashboards.com/data/avatars/s/152/152216.jpg?1530214273[/IMG] Arcadenik and a few others, made me only MORE passionate, my Asperger fascination kicked in. I knew Simon wasn't gonna make it into Smash 4, so when stuff like ESRB happened, i wasn't crying for him (I was more worried for Mewtwo)

But one gleam of light came into the darkness. As the LoS series came to a close and CV was seen as a dead franchise due to what happened with Konami after the Kojima incident, one hope came into the scene. In April 1st (yes really) Iwata revealed the Smash Ballot. Of course, i was gonna vote for Simon (and also other characters via other devices) and after Ryu's reveal, now the 1-rep per company was gone, and therefore Snake was no longer a threat. Simon may have not come to Smash 4 but i knew things could only get better for him.

After the disappointing Smash 4 finale and Bayo destroying the Competitive scene, Smash Ultimate was teased. I knew it was gonna be a new game (SUCK IT Portmongers) but i didn't knew who was gonna be in it outside of Inkling. During this time, Vergeben, the infamous SCVI (Soul Calibur 6, not Super Castlevania 6) leaker came into the scene and said Simon and Ridley were playable. You can guess that while i was a skeptic, i wanted it to be true, so much.

A few arguments, an E3 reveal for Ridley and an overrated cartoon later.

Simon was now a big deal. Back in 2017 and early 2018 Simon was barely noticed, but now he was the centerpiece. Smash Ultimate's development started in 2015, right after the Ballot ended and only a few years after Mirror of Fate, Simon's latest appearance. Snake came back so Konami was back on the table, Bomberman was confirmed as an AT and while that sucked it meant Simon had no competition from his own owner company, and Vergeben gained more credibility thanks to Ridley's reveal plus other stuff he leaked.

Some people may argue that leaks and rumors killed the Simon hype of being this super unexpected hype character, but i disagree. I loved Smash speculation. Yes it could get stupid, pretentious, weird, grasping at straws and desperate at times, making it feel like a war was happening, but it was fun. My fondest teenage memories came from the Pic of the Day from Smash 4, and as someone who is too shy to talk to real people most of the time, having a platform to discuss one of my favorite things in gaming was great. Now my most wanted dream character was seen as not only possible, but LIKELY, that had me giddy, and you can bet your high horse i was enjoying every single moment. I even became the owner of the Simon for Smash Ultimate thread, which you can see here. I was THAT passionate about Simon.

So, i think it's pretty likely you know what happened next, right before the August Direct came in, another leak happened................it was Bloody Tears (and Monster Dance)

This was it, Simon was coming in. I remember looking at the trailer that very same morning. I saw the rain, and i saw his boot, i recognized that Boot, of THAT design of Simon, this was it.

and then, it happened.

After 5 years of dreaming, the dream became a reality. and it was great. He was EXACTLY how i pictured him. His Cross as Side Special, his Holy Water as his Down Special, his Super Castlevania 4 Whip moves as his repertoire of Smashes and Aerials, Grand Cross as his final Smash, and most important of all, that old-school macho look. Bleach Blonde hair, brown and beige armor, square jaw, gruff voice and muscular look. Yeah he look like Conan, and i love it (even if i.............never had watched or read Conan in my life) and to this day i prefer it to the werid, akward and honestly off-looking Chronicles look. Ayami Kojima is a talented artist, her Alucard redesign is amazing, and i like her depictions of Trevor and Richter, but i never liked her take on Simon. The bishonen face, the weird leather clothing, and most of all the color usage of Red and Black (usually reserved for Anti-Heroes or villains or those with Darkness alignment, and since Simon was always this Holy Warrior Hero, the color scheme was always why i disliked Chronicles's new look for Simon, especially when the original version of Chronicles for the Sharp X68000 i mentioned earlier, was my ideal look for Simon)

Sometimes i feel the only reason people remember Chronicles is because of that weird redesign, because otherwise people always talk about SCIV and CV1/2 when it comes to Simon's tales, so for me the choice was clear, especially because after the mid-2000s, Konami once again was using the Barbarian Look for Simon after realizing the Kojima look wasn't as popular as expected (the earliest instance of this was with that NECA figurine). Thankfully, i predicted with Sakurai's fondness of CV1 and with Pac-Man's old look, Sakurai was gonna chose wisely, and i was right. The only thing that was off was Richter's moves, but then a again a Belmont echo never crossed my mind.

After so much speculating, discussion and fanboying, i was vindicated. Simon was in, and while everyone was hyped for K.Rool, Dark Samus, Chrom and Richter, Simon was finally a personal dream and story coming to a close.

Yeah, there were some problems, like Simon was reviled on launch due to his projectile game, which is no longer the case as it is understood Simon is a scrub-killer, even if being demonized for beign a Simon main (well, Richter main mostly) sucked, and the fact that his own theme song wasn't remixed (while Richter's was) also sucked, but Simon in Smash was a dream for me. I could play as much Simon as i wanted. and i will always be thankful for Sakurai and his Development team for that. To this day, Simon is the most played character in Smash that i have ever used, and no one comes close.

Thank You. If you wanna read more, you can read this, from my original (now deleted account) Tord the Red Leader.

So yeah.

SATISFACTION 100%

As you can see i have a lot of story with Simon. Super Castlevania 4 is my favorite CV game alongside Aria of Sorrow, and one of my favorite games in general, so much so i replay it every year. Simon truly is a personal wish. For as mixed opinions as i have of the DLC and many of my requests going under (Isaac, Bomberman, Waluigi) i think Ultimate's newcomers on Base game were truly Quality over Quantity ironically enough. Simon and K.Rool were my top 3 newcomers aside from Waluigi, so to get 2 out of 3 was great. It's great that Ultimate had so big highs, because their lows to me felt like really low lows. Even though Smash 4 only added 2 newcomers i really liked (at the time) none of the newcomers of that game outside of Bayo were off-putting to me, while in Smash Ultimate's DLC it felt as if someone who disliked my tastes went out of their way to add all characters i wasn't too keen on.


Regarding The Decline of the Smash Community:

I think this is part of a bigger issue than Smash, it's about the Internet as a whole. There's simply too many people on the internet nowadays. Back in the 2000's there was a lot of people, but you still had to basiaclly be a nerd to spent more than 2 hours on a webiste, the internet was habitated by niche people, they could be jerks and weird, but because there was less people, there was by proxy also less bad eggs. now, the internet is FILLED, it's as mainstream as it has ever been, and therefore if there were like 5 weirdos and scumbags on the internet, now there are 50, and that number will keep growing. I also think Smash going broader and growing larger is simply gonna make it more critized by default. When something is niche less people are inclined to hate it, no matter how specific that niche is. Compare it to mainstream stuff, and you can guarantee it gets more scorned by beign a bigger target. People are far more critical of MCU than say, Senran Kagura. Mainstream makes you a bigger target.

To quote Youtuber User EmpLemon:
"The More you grow, the harder it becomes for your audience to all be in the same page".

You might be able to please some people all the time, all people some times, but not both.

I also understand that probably im simply victim of a generational transition for Smash. When i was a Smash fan years ago, Nintendo characters were the norm, now i feel like im in the minority, this Simpsons video puts it eloquently:

It's funny that i feel this old even though im 22 (This is what happens when you don't attend college and go straight to get a job, your mental age just kinda skips an entire part)

I know i sound like an hypocrite, my most wanted character WAS a third party. Sometimes i feel guilty because i basically enabled the direction Smash is going (general gaming crossover instead of Nintendo-centric), kinda like how i feel i can't really complain about FE over saturation in Smash when i wanted Roy (in hindsight i think Roy should have waited for Ultimate, since he was a guarantee in that game) although i must admit i wasn't expecting to be this disappointed for DLC with their Third Parties. Like if you told me we were getting this many guest characters in 2015 i would have been excited (unless you told me WHO those characters were i guess). 15 year old and 22 year old me are basically different people.

(also im really happy Kazuya wasn't the final fighter, because i can't play Tekken for my life, Sora really was a damn miracle and probably the only FP2 char aside from the Aegis im gonna pick)


I must admit the internet in general has changed. Back in the 2000s it was more of a place for escapism, you only went there if you were a nerd or someone with weird preferences, nowadays the Internet is mainstream, the place everyone gathers around, including the SAME type of people i like to avoid in real life, and its horrifying to me that once a place where i went to escape is now filled with people i don't like. Im an introvert so i already prefer solitude, but now it is hard to enjoy myself (there's no more lonely feeling than being in a place filled with people that don't know you and don't care about you) on the web, every step it feels like you are walking on a minefield.

The only thing i can do nowadays, is simply do the opposite i did back when i was a kid. Leave the internet, which is harder and harder everyday. Going for a walk, go biking alone. Solitude clears my mind form everything you see on the internet nowadays, where Bullying and Harassment is nowadays the norm and witchhunts are becoming real once again, to the Duck vs Brandon, to Virus blah blah blah (im really happy i don't watch the news or TV). When the game sucks, the only winning strategy is not to play.

So honestly the internet becoming the way it is the reason im leaving Smashboards, it's not the website's fault alone, is just a much bigger issue.

One thing however that Smash Ultimate has done and im super grateful for, is make me reevaluate things. "Everyone is here" made me appreciate every veteran in Smash. The characters i play as are always on the chopping block, so to have Lucas and Wolf back, plus all the cut Melee 5 was a godsend. Mewtwo was still my second favorite reveal of Smash 4 and my 3rd favorite Smash reveal of all time, it's funny to think a character that was such a big deal in 4 is now just one of many, although Mewtwo is still my second most played Ultimate character.

There are also many veterans that i never appreciated that i now i play a lot more. I was never keen on Zelda, but her redesign based on A Link Between Worlds (my top 3 favorite Zelda) won me over, i just love cheerful cute blonde girls (I prefer perky and happy female characters, it's why love Dixie so much as she just radiates this positive feminine energy, although i must admit Zelda's new design has "Waifu" vibes,not that i am complaining) and she is now my most played female character in Smash. Diddy Kong was a character i always liked but almost never played, with Ultimate beign the game i play as him the most. Wario finally got his Shoulder Dash Back and while im still angry that WarioLand is laregely ignored in Smash im happy Wario's siganture move is back one again, and i always try to end a match with him KOing an opponent with Wario's Dash Attack. Also Ganondorf should have gotten some magic attacks but the Sword Smashes are greatly appreciated (even if they are recycled from Cloud and Ike)

As someone who loves playing as multiple characters, playing as Luigi, Zelda, Diddy Kong, King K.Rool, Alph, Meta Knight, Sonic, i really must pick back so many characters i played before.

I also realized that there are many things in life that i haven't appreciated. I only NOW recently beat Xenoblade Chronicles and now i like Shulk much, much more. Same for Rosalina with Mario Galaxy (that story book really touches your heart strings), and in general i realized how there are many things in life i never experienced, that i think that rather than argue with people about petty ****, im better off just enjoying this i liked while looking for new experiences. I just recently watched the Rocky films and those films are life changers, i recently watched the entire Superman TAS and Fleischer shorts and those were great, i just read Mirage's TMNT and i was so happy with how Volume 1 ended, im reading through the Diary of A Wimpy Kid and Dork Diaries and i enjoyed them (especially Dork Diaries, somehow i enjoyed reading through a book, back when i was a kid i only read books because Schools forced me to, now i do it willingly, which is never something i thought i would do in my life!)

What im saying is, its that its time for me to force myself to interact with communities that i don't particularily fit in and just enjoy my life as an individual.


Also massive respect for what you said about likes. I must admit, when i was a teenager (and still happens to me now) whenever i posted something in Smashboards and got a lot of likes, i had this feeling of dopamine in my body, obviously that has sort of diminished as my opinions are by nature very controversial (i watch the likes of Mr Enter, so i kinda stopped caring about popular opinion) but i must admit, the internet and collectivist cultures are both very, VERY dangerous when grouped together, so im happy you point this out. Im becoming more individualist in my way of thinking nowadays, and if nothing else its good to see you have strong principles by never giving anyone like for the reasons you gave, people like you are a rare breed. Still i must put likes to your post because i don't want to leave such a good essay on the dust. Consider this wall of text my appreciation for you.


And i must admit, for the turmoil, to the leaks, to the bandwagons, im still happy that i took part in this journey. I joined Smash Speculation not because i wanted to be right, i wanted to talk with people about stuff i liked, cared about, and i felt happy during those days. Nowadays Smash going in such different directions such as Competitive gameplay (which i don't care about) Single Player content (i play mostly Single Player games, but i feel doing that to Smash is like watching Yaoi for Straight relationships, it beats the point, and yes i mostly play Smash via battling CPUs thank you) or just character choices that i don't care for (which is made worse because a lot of my mains will be likely gone by next game) the only way i can see the next game can appeal to me, is if Smash goes back to being Nintendo Centric as hell, if almost all the veterans (Samus, DK, Ganon, Wario) are redesigned to play more faithful to their games of origins in terms of moveset, if all the weird moveset gimmicks are downplayed or removed, and if Sakurai is replaced with a brand new director. Not gonna happen (outside of the last one detail), so i know im in the minority

Honestly this reminds me of what happened to Paper Mario. I loved the style of the first 2 games, and never liked most things afterward. I realized that trying to force my opinion in what was clearly slowly becoming a minority (made worse by the fact that Origami King is now the best selling game in the series, meaning that more people than ever are exposed to this style of Paper Mario) meant to was only one thing left to do, leave. Enjoy what you liked from that franchise and works that meant to you, reject and ignore the future of the franchise, and instead look for greener pastures.

I did the same with Castlevania, i enjoy the games but HATE the Netflix show, to go as to why would only paint a big target on my back, so instead i just kept replaying the games that i loved and ignore what comes afterward. I hate to do the same with Smash, but its clear to me that the next game will not top Ultimate for me, and for me to consider the next game a worthy upgrade or replacement, it would have to do something that would be seen as EXTREMELY controversial in the eyes of the large majority that plays Smash nowadays.


Although at least unlike those 2 examples i mentioned, i leave Smash in good terms. I love Ultimate despite some of the choices the game made, and i will Still keep playing the game (i put over 800 hours into this game after all) It's just that my hype for future Smash games is now gone, and my interest for the franchise's next step ends here. But the memories will always be with me, and so will be the memories of all the people i met, including you Chrono. No one will ever top your posts and essays, and it's good to know i made some friends on this site, but all friendships must come to an end, some people wanna take different paths in life and simply can't keep contact as a result, im one of those people. Smashboards no longer intersts me anymore, but it was fun while it lasted.

Goodbye.

-Branko

 

[N3ON]

With sora now being officially announced as quite difficult to get, I wonder how the list ranks in terms of most difficult to get to least difficult to get. Based on what we know I’d probably rank it as

Steve
Sora
Banjo
Sethiroth
Hero
Joker
Terry
kazuya
Byleth
Pyra and mythra
min min

Just because Steve took a while doesn't mean the hold-up was on MS/Mojang's end. We can already infer that Sakurai turned the character down at least once before being persuaded otherwise. Plus he noted how easy Banjo was to implement.

People read way too much into the five-year thing. Who's to say Nintendo didn't approach Disney prior to this fateful meeting about Sora in attempted collaboration, only to get turned down? There are claims that happened, and if it was around the ballot era that would put Sora at six years to Steve's five.

I also think you've got to put the SE characters above the MS ones, just due to how fastidious and stipulatory that company is, even when cooperative. And of course Sora is first.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I don't have the time to write a large thank you post so I'll try to put all my emotions into a brief one.

Smash speculation, as bad as it could get, was always fun. And a large part of that was the community. I've met so many individuals that I respect and have made many close friendships. There are people who have gotten me through some super rough times and for that I am eternally grateful. For better or for worse you guys changed me. And for the most part, I think it's for the better.

My only real regret is that some of you won't be around anymore. Just let it be known that I appreciate every one of you for being here and for making this experience the joy it was.

Thank you everyone, for bringing me so much joy.

 

[CosmicQuark]

With sora now being officially announced as quite difficult to get, I wonder how the list ranks in terms of most difficult to get to least difficult to get. Based on what we know I’d probably rank it as

Steve
Sora
Banjo
Sethiroth
Hero
Joker
Terry
kazuya
Byleth
Pyra and mythra
min min

I don't think Steve and Banjo & Kazooie would rank highly in terms of difficulty to acquire, since both Phil Spencer and Sakurai in his Famitsu column said Banjo & Kazooie in Smash was an easy deal to make (though, I still think Microsoft was asking for a lot given the music selection compared to other DLC characters). Unless you're talking about in terms of Smash history rather than Ultimate's development, or if you also include the difficulties to implement in the game (Steve required a lot of programming wizardry), in which case Kazuya would rank higher given Sakurai thought a long time in how to incorporate a Tekken character. Terry should have been the easiest of them all, coming from a smaller company and SNK simply saying "okay" to Sakurai's 50 songs. Even though Bandai Namco own Kazuya, they're still a big company and Tekken is a big IP, and while easier than other third parties, would still require a lot of beaurocracy.

I'd think it'd go Sora, Hero, Sephiroth, Joker, Banjo & Kazooie, Steve, Kazuya, Terry, and then the Nintendo characters in terms of difficult to acquire.

 

[Momotsuki]

Sora is the only character that we've been directly told was hard to negotiate for. Not that it took a while, which could be for any number of reasons, but that it was hard. I think it's very safe to say he was the hardest to get. Sure, we could infer it with Cloud, but it was only Sora that they were up-front about being a challenge.

Only Sakurai could have overcome lolDisney, haha.
I must admit that I was the fool; I really didn't think it could be done.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I guess I'll give one last, brief farewell to this thread before we wrap things up for real.

I'm not going to lie and say that Smash Speculation this cycle has been a perfect experience, because it really hasn't. It was riddled with drama, pettiness, and circular arguments galore. I found myself disillusioned multiple times throughout these past three years, which correspond with the multiple goodbyes I've made.

But just when I think I'm out, they pull me back in. I kept coming back for the community because I've made some real, genuine friends here. I've also grown and matured a lot throughout the years, and I owe that in part to my experiences in this community, as much as I've bemoaned it and made jokes at its expense. As a whole I’m thankful for my time here and the amazing community I’ve gotten to be a part of.

I'll still be around, if only to get use out of the free year of Smashboards Premium I got for being a GOD SPECULATOR WHO PREDICTED SORA LET'S GOOOOOOOOO, but I won't be around as much as I'll be focusing on other endeavors (grad school applications, school life, jobs and internships, streaming) and be more active on other platforms (like Discord and Twitter). Y'all are free to follow me on Twitter or reach out over Discord if you want to talk more often.

Here's one last song to play us out:

 

[DanganZilla5]

If Kazuya was the last fighter I'd be fine with it, considering that some people did have that "Thank you Bandai Namco" theory which turned out to be technically true. But yeah Sora was a much better way of ending things off.

I don't have a long essay to end this thread off with, and I'll be around tonight (When exactly does this thread close?). But I'll say it has been a fun time. Through the excitement and the heachaches, I've gotten to know some of you and it's been a pleasure. Thank you all for the fun times.

As a reminder, I'll be in the social thread and occasionally in other parts of Smashboards. But as for how active I'll be, that I'm not sure about.

 

[ahemtoday]

Haven't been in here for a while. I guess we're closing out, huh? Makes sense.

I was really only ever in this Newcomer Speculation subforum, and only during Ultimate so this closure is gonna hit me more than most. I mean, maybe I'm overselling it. I can always just go to a place on here that's actually open.

Honestly, though, being in here was pretty cool. Even though I've stopped hanging out there, I helped found and run the Character Exploration Thread, and that really made me feel like I fit in here, which... is something that's become pretty valuable to me in recent times. Through this place, I found a community that I feel like an active part of instead of someone on the fringes who talks occasionally, and I really, really appreciate that.

 

[Momotsuki]

Guess I should actually give a "proper" goodbye before I dip from this thread. It's been, uh, pretty fun. I admittedly never speculated as much as I just talked to myself out loud, but I enjoyed doing that and maybe some of you enjoyed hearing me out. I'll check into the social thread now and again, still talk about Smash, and maybe talk about other things, too. Be seeing you!

 

[Michael the Spikester]

See y'all on the Social thread.

 

[Firox]

Only Sakurai could have overcome lolDisney, haha.

It's official. If Lord Sakurai really wants a character in Smash, then they end up Smash. Resistance is futile.

 

[ShotoStar]

We're closing up? I was just checking in on here to see if it was closed yet so I guess I'll say my due. I was a newcomer during Ultimate speculation and I can't say I exactly used Smashboards much later on but I was around here during Pass 1 spec and without this place I wouldn't have found a community I could call my own, a place I can finally be myself around so I'm very thankful for it.

This speculation cycle hasn't been perfect there's been drama, petty drama, We've all had our upsides and downsides but I can't say I won't miss this because... I truly will. I doubt we'll ever get anything like Ultimate again, or at least for a very long time. I'm thankful for this cycle despite my downsides with it I've gained a community, I've grown into my own as a person with due help from this game and I have a lot of good memories from it. I'll always remember the Grinch Leak for example that was crazy, I'll always remember Cacomallow and joking about it with friends, The day Sephiroth got announced, so on and so forth. Good times, all good times.

I'll probably check in on Smashboards once in awhile I've been meaning to get back into it and even if I don't... I'll be around. At least for Smash 6 speculation, this may be the end of one of the best speculation cycles out there but it's not the end for Smash. Till then it's been real, Thanks for everything folks!

Until next time!