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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

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GilTheGreat19

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It’d be very poetic if we ended on either Hayabusa or I Doomguy.
Those two have been speculated heavily on for over 2 years now because of that one leak iykyk.
Both of them getting in, one as a fighter, one as a costume or heck even both as costumes, would be very nice.
 
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Gengar84

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Zegram Ghart-Who?
Battletoads-Meh
Magus-No
Bill Rizer-Meh
Fulgore-Meh
Gengar-Meh
Sub-Zero-Interested
Goomba-Meh
Velvet Crowe-No
Lu Bu-Meh
Xemnas-No? (This is that Kingdom Hearts guy right?)
Etna-Who?
Illidan Stormrage-Yeeees? (This is The Litch King right?)
Sarah Kerrigan-Who?
Raziel-Who?
Pharaoh Man-Yes, but also no
Impa (HW1)-Meh
Medusa-Meh
Jena Anderson-Who?
Nightmare-Meh
Bugzzy-Interested
H’aanit-Meh (This is the girl who speaks fake old English from Octopath Traveler right?)
Princess Garnet-Who?

To clarify, "Meh" means apathetic until reveal. I will probably have a higher opinion after seeing them in action. No means I want someone else first.
Thanks for the response. A lot of these characters are pretty obscure so I don’t expect a lot of people to know or care about them. Here’s a bit of clarification on a few of the characters:

Zegram - He is a character from the PS2 JRPG Rogue Galaxy by Level 5. He is a badass space pirate and my favorite video game character ever.

Xemnas - Yeah, he’s the main antagonist from Kingdom Hearts 2 and part of the overall antagonist that split off to become his own person.

Illidan Stormrage - No, the Lich King is Arthas but you got the right game. Illidan is the demonic Night Elf (purple guy with green tattoos).

Sarah Kerrigan - A major character from StarCraft. She was basically a space marine who was infected by insect like aliens called Zerg and now serves as their queen.

Raziel - A fallen vampire who is the main character from Soul Reaver of the Legacy of Kain series. He has an awesome design and the story was great.

Jena Anderson - Mysterious major antagonist from Astral Chain. She’s basically a mad scientist that fights you at multiple points in the game but isn’t fully a villain.

Etna - She’s one of the main characters from the Disgaea games. She’s the devil girl with red hair that fights with a spear and uses Prinnies (basically little penguins).

H’aanit - Yeah, that’s her. I love her design and generally love huntress type characters. I think she’s have a really unique moveset in Smash.

Garnet - The Princess from Final Fantasy IX. She’s a white mage and a summoner.
 

Ivander

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Xemnas-No? (This is that Kingdom Hearts guy right?)
Main Antagonist of Kingdom Hearts 2, as well as an antagonist in Kingdom Hearts 3D and III.
Etna-Who?
The red-haired devil girl from Disgaea.
Illidan Stormrage-Yeeees? (This is The Litch King right?)
No, that's Arthas who is the Lich King. Illidan Stormrage is the Night Elf Devil Hunter with 2 dual-bladed swords voiced by Liam O'Brian and is known for "YOU ARE NOT PREPARED!"
Sarah Kerrigan-Who?
One of the main characters of Starcraft, the one who gets infected by the Zerg and calls herself the Queen of Blades.
Raziel-Who?
Legacy of Kain IIRC? Or related to that series?
Princess Garnet-Who?
Probably Final Fantasy 9, the one with Zidane.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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Time for my thoughts on Banjo & Kazooie:

...

Huh. I don't have too many of them. I think I get the idea behind the egg moves now though; They were designed in such a way that Banjo & Kazooie would be a setup character, but I don't think they were actually supposed to be a setup zoner like Duck Hunt, which is kind of what ended up happening. Even if you're not just fishing for egg setups though, keeping this in mind does help when playing the character, and the mentality has made me go from super lukewarm due to their perceived clunkyness, to actually kind of liking them.

As for the rest of the packs, I've touched on Joker and Hero's music (I vibe with a handful of the former's and none of the latter's), and I don't really care about Spirits, so I won't be reviewing them. I will touch on the stages though:

Mementos
I like this stage, both in chaotic free for alls, and in 1v1s. Hazards on, it's probably the most bonkers stage of its type with walls and ceilings closing in, trains running along the bottom, and a platform flying in on the right. Hazards off, you get a fun asymmetrical stage for 1v1s. I dig it.

It looks super ugly in yellow though.

Yggdrasil's Altar
It's fairly standard. I like that the platform layouts change, but there's no real "wow" factor, and the music stinks, often not even fitting the match. Hazards on is still pretty uninteresting, with the only addition being item chests, and Mimics that are not at all worth fighting.

Spiral Mountain
It's also fairly standard. The spinning is a questionable decision though, as it's way too fast, and can even disorient players that aren't prone to motion sickness. Case in point: It's the only stage that messes with my eyes should I stare at the background. The rest of it is...fine. My thoughts are similar to Yggdrasil's Altar, though the music we got is 100% better than on the former stage. The biggest gripe with the layout is that the path up to Spiral Mountain can make that side of the stage difficult to navigate.
 

Baba

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Spoiling just in case- Someone in the Master Chief thread just said there's a leak going around other than the music thing? I haven't seen anything notable. Any idea what they're talking about?
 

Gengar84

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Main Antagonist of Kingdom Hearts 2, as well as an antagonist in Kingdom Hearts 3D and III.

The red-haired devil girl from Disgaea.

No, that's Arthas who is the Lich King. Illidan Stormrage is the Night Elf Devil Hunter with 2 dual-bladed swords voiced by Liam O'Brian and is known for "YOU ARE NOT PREPARED!"

One of the main characters of Starcraft, the one who gets infected by the Zerg and calls herself the Queen of Blades.

Legacy of Kain IIRC? Or related to that series?

Probably Final Fantasy 9, the one with Zidane.
Wow, I’m impressed you nailed them all. The two I feel like the most people will be unfamiliar with are Zegram and H’aanit but that’s very impressive.
 

MattX20

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Banjo & Kazooie: the duo many welcome home

The series that was long forgotten due to time returned to the spotlight as the second character revealed at E3 2019
This reveal was EASILY the most well received addition of the Fighter Pass just by the reveal alone. Banjo was a very welcome addition, and a character I'm glad to see got to have a major comeback after the disaster of Nuts and Bolts
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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Thanks for the response. A lot of these characters are pretty obscure so I don’t expect a lot of people to know or care about them. Here’s a bit of clarification on a few of the characters:

Zegram - He is a character from the PS2 JRPG Rogue Galaxy by Level 5. He is a badass space pirate and my favorite video game character ever.

Xemnas - Yeah, he’s the main antagonist from Kingdom Hearts 2 and part of the overall antagonist that split off to become his own person.

Illidan Stormrage - No, the Lich King is Arthas but you got the right game. Illidan is the demonic Night Elf (purple guy with green tattoos).

Sarah Kerrigan - A major character from StarCraft. She was basically a space marine who was infected by insect like aliens called Zerg and now serves as their queen.

Raziel - A fallen vampire who is the main character from Soul Reaver of the Legacy of Kain series. He has an awesome design and the story was great.

Jena Anderson - Mysterious major antagonist from Astral Chain. She’s basically a mad scientist that fights you at multiple points in the game but isn’t fully a villain.

Etna - She’s one of the main characters from the Disgaea games. She’s the devil girl with red hair that fights with a spear and uses Prinnies (basically little penguins).

H’aanit - Yeah, that’s her. I love her design and generally love huntress type characters. I think she’s have a really unique moveset in Smash.

Garnet - The Princess from Final Fantasy IX. She’s a white mage and a summoner.
OK that does change some answers, mostly just to "meh" though. The only two exceptions are Xemnas and Jena, who I'd have to say "no" to.

Wow, I’m impressed you nailed them all. The two I feel like the most people will be unfamiliar with are Zegram and H’aanit but that’s very impressive.
I've played Octopath Traveler (not for too long because the screen keeps flashing and I can't figure out why), so I do know H'aanit, and I think she's cool, but I do cringe a little every time I hear things like "Leten the hunt beginen". It sounds kinda dumb and feels like they just threw unnecessary syllables rather than create an actual dialect. Props to the voice actors for being able to say it without stumbling through all their words though.
 

Hydreigonfan01

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Spoiling just in case- Someone in the Master Chief thread just said there's a leak going around other than the music thing? I haven't seen anything notable. Any idea what they're talking about?
I don't know either, someone better be doing some digging on 4chan to find out this ain't some false alarm.
 

Gengar84

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OK that does change some answers, mostly just to "meh" though. The only two exceptions are Xemnas and Jena, who I'd have to say "no" to.


I've played Octopath Traveler (not for too long because the screen keeps flashing and I can't figure out why), so I do know H'aanit, and I think she's cool, but I do cringe a little every time I hear things like "Leten the hunt beginen". It sounds kinda dumb and feels like they just threw unnecessary syllables rather than create an actual dialect. Props to the voice actors for being able to say it without stumbling through all their words though.
Yeah, her voice is the only bad thing about her but I eventually got used to it and think it’s funny.
 

Professor Pumpkaboo

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Yeah, her voice is the only bad thing about her but I eventually got used to it and think it’s funny.
Hannet or how every you spell her name would of been a better character if she didnt talk so dumb
Cant even care to spell her name right. cyrus is the only character that uses big words and manages to not sound stupid
 
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Gengar84

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I wouldn't even say it's her voice either; I freaking love buttery smooth voices. It's really just the dialogue that rubs me the wrong way.
Yeah, that’s true. It feels especially weird because you wouldn’t typically expect a huntress style character to speak in a fancy dialect like that.
 

Theguy123

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Spoiling just in case- Someone in the Master Chief thread just said there's a leak going around other than the music thing? I haven't seen anything notable. Any idea what they're talking about?
you got a link to their comment so I can ask them what leak
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Every time someone uses "this is the ultimate Smash" to justify a character, they have to make another donation to Translators without Borders.

Seriously, all previous Smash games were considered as big deals by developers by the time came out and none of them went "****, we have to hold on to one of the big reveals for the sake of a strong ending". I don't see why this game has to be any different just because the translation team wanted to be cute.
I came here to split hairs: Ultimate is called "Special" in Japan and saying that it has to end on a big reveal "makes it special" would be in the same vein.


I think the only character on my most wanted list that would be seen as a huge universal hype character is Sub-Zero. We’ve already gone over the barriers to his entry but I don’t think it’s impossible.

Just out of curiosity, this is my top 25 or so most wanted again. I’m curioushow many of these people would be interested in:

Zegram Ghart
Holy **** Zegram from Rogue Galaxy? Based pick. Probably a hundred Mega Man characters I'd add before Pharaoh Man, though.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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Yeah, that’s true. It feels especially weird because you wouldn’t typically expect a huntress style character to speak in a fancy dialect like that.
I like the idea, as it shows just how secluded her village is...but they should have gone with an existing dialect, or at least made one that wasn't "ya'know what English needs? More 'n's and 'th's!"

I think if they want a similar dialect, the dialect found in Shakespeare's plays (which apparently isn't Old English, but rather, Middle English, as Old English is essentially an entirely different language) would have been better.
 
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SKX31

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Illidan Stormrage-Yeeees? (This is The Litch King right?)
Same universe as the Lich King - WarCraft (specifically WC3 but also WoW). The Lich King's the leader of the Undead Scourge, appointed by WarCraft's resident demon faction the Burning Legion and in cahoots with them. The original Lich King ordered the invasion of Warcraft's human kingdom and manipulated a certain human prince - Arthas - causing his downfall. He did this by subtly making Arthas go the Anakin Skywalker route of "The Ends justify the means" and additionally think an icy "Excalibur" in the proverbial North Pole was the only way to beat back the Undead invasion. Whoopsie daisy the "Excalibur" - Frostmourne - was cursed and converted Arthas to the undead cause of skeletons, zombies and spidery gothic architecture (long story). After W3's and the expansion Frozen Throne's campaigns - and a lot of shenaningas - the Lich King fused with the now-death-knight Arthas.

Illidan's a Night Elf Demon Hunter who quarrelled with other Night Elves over the methods of repelling the Burning Legion in the ancient past and chose to go his own path essentially. One of WC's edgelords in essence, he tried all kinds of methods during WC3's story to wreck the un-living **** out of the Lich King. Magical rituals that would have destroyed the North Pole, allying with seemingly random factions and paying a visit to the Lich King in the North Pole to murder him personally.

Illidan's "visit" caused the Lich King to freak the **** out and call out for Arthas assistance - leading to a climatic duel and Illidan taking a cursed sword right between the legs. ... It was not the smartest move to jump there Illidan. It's after this that the Lich King and Arthas fuse, by having Arthas put on the Lich King's snazzy helmet.

But he apparently got better in time for a certain WoW expansion. Huh.

Sarah Kerrigan-Who?
StarCraft. Terran - Human - spy (the technical term is Ghost, referring to their specific psychic training, ability to go invisible and their ability to signal Nuke drops onto opponents) who got caught by the Zerg - basically Tyranids / Starship Troopers aliens in design - and infested. The Zerg Overmind sensed a lot of potential in Kerrigan though, and chose to turn her into one of his lieutenants.

After the Overmind got blown up while invading the Protoss homeworld Aiur (taking a ****ing flying aircraft carrier to the eye will do that to you) so the remaining Zerg lieutenants squabbled and the Zerg splintered during the early stages of the Brood War expansion. Kerrigan took that as her chance, exploiting the fact that the other StarCraft characters made some truly idiotic decisions - like trusting her more than they trust their established allies / friends - to reunite the Zerg, destroy a lot of her foes and proceed to retake a lot of ground they had lost in the interim.

And that set the stage for StarCraft II, where things get even wilder.

I've played Octopath Traveler (not for too long because the screen keeps flashing and I can't figure out why), so I do know H'aanit, and I think she's cool, but I do cringe a little every time I hear things like "Leten the hunt beginen". It sounds kinda dumb and feels like they just threw unnecessary syllables rather than create an actual dialect. Props to the voice actors for being able to say it without stumbling through all their words though.
While I do agree it's dumb that they're just adding syllables to sound old rather than be authentic, I kinda suspect that happens because... well, look at English in the Middle Ages:

Ye knowe eek , that in forme of speche is chaunge
With-inne a thousand yeer, and wordes tho
That hadden prys, now wonder nyce and straunge
Us thinketh hem ; and yet they spake hem so,
And spedde as wel in love as men now do;
Eek for to winne love in sondry ages,
In sondry londes , sondry been usages.
Geoffrey Chaucer, Troilus and Criseyde, Book II (roughly, "You know that language changes over a thousand years, and words that were then in use now seem strange to us; but they really did talk that way, and they spoke as eloquently about love as anyone did in any age or country.")

That's just text - any attempt to pronounce how they talked in say the 1600s and earlier is neccessarily guesswork since there was no standard "Pronounciation Guide" and heavily region-dependent. It's one thing institutionalized schooling changed.

So they probably do that just to be simple (or because they're relying on stereotypical "Old English" like Ye Olde Butcherede Englishe).
 
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Gengar84

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Speaking of H’aanit, I wonder what the odds are that we ever get a huntress style character. I tend to love their designs and character in most games. I’d love to see Aloy, Rhinka, Petra, H’aanit, Zu Rhong, Maya or a similar character at some point but I don’t know how many are really important enough.
 

DaybreakHorizon

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Spoiling just in case- Someone in the Master Chief thread just said there's a leak going around other than the music thing? I haven't seen anything notable. Any idea what they're talking about?
There's always some sort of leak going around, so I wouldn't put much stock in it unless supported by a reputable insider like Zhuge or NateDrake–and even then they're not always correct, or occasionally decide to just take the piss out of desperate Smash fans, so I wouldn't put much stock in what they say either.

Also, as someone who's been in on leaks in the past myself as well, they don't really go around either so much as they're kept within certain circles and people are maybe brought in sporadically as can be trusted. It's not like these things are spread like chain emails where you have to send it to 5 people you know or else the PeePeePooPoo Man will warp into your room at 3am and steal your toes or some **** like that, so chances are if you're not actively seeking it out you won't run into it anyways.
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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While I do agree it's dumb that they're just adding syllables to sound old rather than be authentic, I kinda suspect that happens because... well, look at English in the Middle Ages:

Geoffrey Chaucer, Troilus and Criseyde, Book II (roughly, "You know that language changes over a thousand years, and words that were then in use now seem strange to us; but they really did talk that way, and they spoke as eloquently about love as anyone did in any age or country.")

That's just text - any attempt to pronounce how they talked in say the 1600s and earlier is neccessarily guesswork since there was no standard "Pronounciation Guide" and heavily region-dependent. It's one thing institutionalized schooling changed

So they probably do that just to be simple (or because they're relying on stereotypical "Old English" like Ye Olde Butcherede Englishe).
Yeah that's why I suggested Middle English instead of Old English in a later post, because the latter would be super distracting even if it were comprehensible.
I mean this pretty much works because he's hamming it up (also he's pronouncing Þ incorrectly) and there are visuals. It would probably be pretty hard to follow if read normally, and without visual aids.

Speaking of H’aanit, I wonder what the odds are that we ever get a huntress style character. I tend to love their designs and character in most games. I’d love to see Aloy, Rhinka, Petra, H’aanit, Zu Rhong, Maya or a similar character at some point but I don’t know how many are really important enough.
Expanding it to the gender neutral ranger archetype, likely fairly low, as they tend not to be main characters, and tend to only show up in smaller RPGs, or RPGs where the cast rotates so there can only be one; the protagonist.
 

Guynamednelson

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Another day, another leak from some random guy claiming one of Crash, Doom Marine, or Master Chief are FP11.
You know, if MC is allowed to break all the rules because T3H HYP3!!!!1 and MS and Nintendo being friends...shouldn't Steve have been CP5 instead of Byleth, then? Having to wait for FP2 wouldn't have been due to editing the stages taking too long, since he was in development for a similar amount of time as everyone else.
 

Gengar84

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I came here to split hairs: Ultimate is called "Special" in Japan and saying that it has to end on a big reveal "makes it special" would be in the same vein.



Holy **** Zegram from Rogue Galaxy? Based pick. Probably a hundred Mega Man characters I'd add before Pharaoh Man, though.
It’s really rare to find anyone else that has any clue who Zegram is. He’s my favorite video game character ever. As for Pharaoh Man, he’s a very random inclusion and a ton of characters deserve the spot before him but I’ve always loved his design since I was a kid.
 
D

Deleted member

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It’s really rare to find anyone else that has any clue who Zegram is. He’s my favorite video game character ever. As for Pharaoh Man, he’s a very random inclusion and a ton of characters deserve the spot before him but I’ve always loved his design since I was a kid.
Rogue Galaxy is admittedly a game that I was introduced to by complete accident, but it's got a very special place in my heart nowadays. I've never even completed it, maybe that's something I need to jump to here soon. I liked Pharoah Man's design way back when, too, and he's still a top robot master for me.

I can never really fault a list like yours because my own top 3 is loaded down with characters who will absolutely never happen. My top 25 would end up looking like the cover an action replay code book.
 

RoboFist

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Banjo & Kazooie: the duo many welcome home

The series that was long forgotten due to time returned to the spotlight as the second character revealed at E3 2019
This was it. The last character needed for this game to feel like Ultimate to me, to live up to it's "Everyone is Here" thesis. 20 years of excitement, patience, confusion, frustration, and bitter acceptance finally rewarded in what really was a monumental homecoming.

I'm not going to go on about how their journey to Smash was easily the longest and most convoluted, nor how negatively their moveset was received, not how they were overshadowed by both Terry and Sans. I'm not going to try and argue their place on the tier list or that everyone who finds them jank are wrong or whatever. I know and respect the fact that not everybody likes them, or even knows who they are. This duo's inclusion means too much to me to waste time trying to start a fight.

It's been two years and I'm still just happy that they're here.

mjnhbgf.jpg
 

volbound1700

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Spoiling just in case- Someone in the Master Chief thread just said there's a leak going around other than the music thing? I haven't seen anything notable. Any idea what they're talking about?
I would love to have this character but I just don't see it happening. Nintendo is very Japan-focused and that character is just not that big in Japan. We have tons of great video game characters that don't have a chance in Smash because they originated in the West and are more popular in the West.

Look at D2 right now, it is killing it on all consoles including the Switch (I got the game). I think it is currently the top seller on the Nintendo eshop (at least in the USA). Yet, I doubt we will see any Activision-Blizzard content in Smash. Probably smart anyways due to all the scandals at the company. I would probably avoid Activision as well. However, scandals aside, I would still say that it is doubtful we get an Activision-Blizzard character.
 

Gengar84

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I would love to have this character but I just don't see it happening. Nintendo is very Japan-focused and that character is just not that big in Japan. We have tons of great video game characters that don't have a chance in Smash because they originated in the West and are more popular in the West.

Look at D2 right now, it is killing it on all consoles including the Switch (I got the game). I think it is currently the top seller on the Nintendo eshop (at least in the USA). Yet, I doubt we will see any Activision-Blizzard content in Smash. Probably smart anyways due to all the scandals at the company. I would probably avoid Activision as well. However, scandals aside, I would still say that it is doubtful we get an Activision-Blizzard character.
Diablo would be awesome. He’s not my first pick for a Blizzard character but I’d love to see him in Smash. I just wish Blizzard wasn’t such a horrible company. It makes me feel kind of guilty for wanting a character.
 

Theguy123

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Last character for smash bros ultimate is cool and all but I want them to just open up with the mii costumes straight away so that people have about 10-15 seconds to theorise who the character is based on the costumes that got dropped.

It’ll be hilarious
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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Last character for smash bros ultimate is cool and all but I want them to just open up with the mii costumes straight away so that people have about 10-15 seconds to theorise who the character is based on the costumes that got dropped.

It’ll be hilarious
It's not really a good idea. Either it relates to the character, and you ruined the surprise, or it doesn't isn't actually useful information for predictions (aside from disconformations, which can be pretty negative in nature). Either way you take the wind out of the sails.

EDIT: Also if you do the Mii Costumes after, then people will actually be looking forward to see who is at least getting the consolation prize rather than getting disappointed at who isn't the final fighter.
 
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GalacticPetey

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I think if they want a similar dialect, the dialect found in Shakespeare's plays (which apparently isn't Old English, but rather, Middle English, as Old English is essentially an entirely different language) would have been better.
Gonna be pedantic and say that middle English is also incorrect for Shakespeare, as Middle English is similarly archaic and unintelligible to most modern English speaking people as Old English is.

Shakespeare wrote in modern English, the same language you and I are speaking now. Every word he wrote is just as much modern English as the words "iPod" and "YouTube". His pool of vocabulary was just different as certain words have fallen out of use and language is always changing and evolving.

Sorry to be annoying but it's always a pet peeve of mine when people try to put Shakespeare into this "alien" camp of old and middle English. It's still modern English and not that different from us or difficult to understand.

But on the subject of Smash Bros, while the idea of leading with the mii costumes is fun, I feel that could make the reveal of the final character fall even more flat for people if it someone like Cinderace while Doomguy or someone got a costume. Granted there's gonna be salt regardless but I think they're gonna show the fighter at the start.
 

7NATOR

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Thoughts I need to share today

-More details/Info in the Sora "Leak"

So it was actually figured out that the July "Disney Music" Post wasn't actually the first post claiming Sora on October 5th

/v/ - Video Games » Thread #565604656 (b4k.co)

This was about 5 hours before the Disney Music Post

Though it could have been a repeat from the same guy. 5 hours later, the Disney Music version of it would be posted, twice actually

/v/ - Video Games » Thread #565589861 (b4k.co)

one of the Disney Music version post actually got a reply, but the important thing is that the First post to ever Claim Sora on October 5th didn't even go into detail, just said Sora on October 5th


-The Kozumi speculation thing I'm not sure if it leads towards certain other characters or what. guess it shows you can make speculation out of anything. Whether you want to is the question though


-We know Harada and Sakurai didn't choose the DLC, Nintendo did

With that said, in Sakurai's Case at the least, that doesn't mean he had no role in some of the characters chosen. I don't believe that Joker, Banjo, and Terry as examples were Nintendo's Initial Top Picks for DLC, especially in the advent of Characters like Steve and Kazuya explicitly being requested by Nintendo heavily, where we never got that with characters like Joker, Banjo, Terry.

Nintendo would still have to agree to all the characters, they would still need to look at the merits of each character. Nintendo choosing the DLC doesn't mean they are the ones starting the conversation on every character yes.

And Harada wouldn't have any say in the character choices. The theory was that he knew about the Final Roster selection, not that he had an hand in it
 
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Momotsuki

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I feel like the only people that really had a problem with Banjo & Kazooie's moveset are those unfamiliar with the series and who haven't been holding out for them for the past twenty years. Most long-time Banjo fans/supporters I've seen quite like it. And it's hard to blame them; it's not a crazy, gimmicky, "DLC" moveset, sure, but wouldn't it feel forced on these two if it were?

It truly feels like the moveset they'd have gotten had they been added in 64 or Melee, a time capsule from a past we never saw.
 
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