Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Mamboo07]

Agreed. Why do people keep thinking that Sakurai or Harada choose the DLC when they pretty much have almost 0% involvement in it?

Because the Smash fans probably praise Sakurai thinking of him as a perfect god who doesn't make mistakes and not a human being like us.

 

[Momotsuki]

I don't think it's fair to act like Sakurai has absolutely no say in these matters. It's true that his creative control is much more limited than with the base game, but at the end of the day it's still up to him whether he thinks the character can work, and we don't really know the full story on a lot of the choices and how involved or not involved Sakurai may have been. We do know Steve was purely a Nintendo pick and there are certainly others that were, but whether or not he had any pitches of his own to make to Nintendo, we really can't say.

Naturally, a simpler and technically-not-wrong "Nintendo is choosing the DLC" is the better front to keep the Twitter weirdos off of your back, even if the situation isn't quite as cut-and-dry.

You're facing a major uphill battle trying to convince me that Joker and Terry weren't Sakurai picks.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

You're facing a major uphill battle trying to convince me that Joker and Terry weren't Sakurai picks.

This.

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

Because the Smash fans probably praise Sakurai thinking of him as a perfect god who doesn't make mistakes and not a human being like us.

OH YEAH! Kind of like how most of the Dragon Ball fans praise DBS Goku as being an undefeatable god when he nearly ended the world during the Moro Arc and couldn’t beat a SINGLE MAIN ANTAGONIST IN THE SHOW.

 

[RouffWestie]

Smash DLC always ends with a Fire Emblem character, can’t see them breaking that pattern

This but unironically. People are sleeping on FEH and TMS. Heroes is Nintendo's most successful mobile release and TMS was major crossover with the same IP that kickstarted the Persona series. They wouldn't be unreasonable choices at this point.

 

[Theguy123]

Agreed. Why do people keep thinking that Sakurai or Harada choose the DLC when they pretty much have almost 0% involvement in it?

what even was harada’s list of blocked accounts anyways. I always see people bring up that harada had certain accounts blocked but people never say who they were.

only ones I know off are master chief and sora

 

[Guybrush20X6]

OH YEAH! Kind of like how most of the Dragon Ball fans praise DBS Goku as being an undefeatable god when he nearly ended the world during the Moro Arc and couldn’t beat a SINGLE MAIN ANTAGONIST IN THE SHOW.

To be entirely fair, he did beat Hit but that was in a "friendly" match long after the arc.

 

[Dukefire]

8 days remaining

Banjo & Kazooie: the duo many welcome home

The series that was long forgotten due to time returned to the spotlight as the second character revealed at E3 2019

 

[MrJudd]

I don't think it's fair to act like Sakurai has absolutely no say in these matters. It's true that his creative control is much more limited, but at the end of the day it's still up to him whether he thinks the character can work, and we don't really know the full story on a lot of the choices and how involved or not involved Sakurai may have been. Whether or not he had any pitches of his own to make to Nintendo, we really can't say.
Naturally, a simpler and not-wrong "Nintendo is choosing the DLC" is the better front to keep the Twitter weirdos off of your back.

You're facing a major uphill battle trying to convince me that Joker and Terry weren't Sakurai picks.

To add on to that, have people yet not noticed that Nintendo always cares more for a game/IP to be represented more than what character is chosen? We've known this since Cloud and this was reinforced with Steve and Kazuya, yet people completely ignore the fact that what happens after is a discussion with the involved parties to find a middle ground instead of an imposition from any of them.

 

[blackghost]

There is precisely only ONE manga/anime character that deserves to be in Smash and it isn't Goku.
View attachment 331767

strange, that isnt saber. you know the charatcer that actually has video game orgins.


(just a joke btw)

That september backtrack thing could also be a misunderstanding / forgotten thing. I mean, he may have forgotten about the October 5 date, and saw, when the Direct was announced he remembered "hey I probably know something!!". Then it turned out that - indeed - the music is for a digital presentation on October 5th like he said earlier and he remembered (or something like that).

If the post is real, that is. I don't know what to think at this moment. It feels so weirdly specific and so different in it's reasoning. I could actually believe that music for presentations have to be licensed differently than the music in the game.

And I still believe Sora could actually be in. That's probably working too. While Byleth and other closers were super mediocre, remember that this is THE ending to the ultimate Smash. I can't believe they would hold off a super lame character until the end. Especially since pass 2 started with Min Min, the least impressive so far (I think). If the "theory of hype characters first" is real, they could've hold here off at least until Steve (and Sephiroth) were out. And those rules of only one SE character per pass or something, is just a fan rule, it could be broken easily. Actually, Sora could be considered a Disney character (I would think for sure their copyright would be there at the end of the trailer at least).

Sora for me is actually a decently likely character (regardless of thinking about if this leak is real or not):

• BIG character; one of the most requested ones for Smash ever. Banjo, Ridley and K. Rool already got in; is this one of the major ones voted for in the Ballot? I think so.
• If they want to end of Ultimate really strong, then Sora is a good way to go. Together with Crash and Master Chief imo. Three biggies that are either gaming icons or HEAVILY requested (or both for some).
• I don't think Disney is that stingy with their properties. Seeing their properties in Fortnite and Fall Guys make me feel like Smash is an option for Disney; especially since Sora isn't even a movie character.
• Disney and Nintendo are on pretty good terms. Disney Magical World in the Direct, there is a special Disney Tsum Tsum themed Switch, Bowser got in Wreck It-Ralph... the list goes on.
• Sora is different and unique enough to add something new to Smash. A criteria Sakurai has mentioned a few times before.
• Disney music or Disney movie properties wouldn't even be needed for Sora to be in Smash if Sakurai wants exclusively game stuff in Smash.

I specifically already posted about this stuff.
the Nintendo world game is a rerelease meaning its striaght up legally easier to make happen.

Ending on a big name is something fans wnat it doesnt mean much to Nintendo its not unreasonable to say the two biggest reveals were the fighters planned to be shown at e3 which was sepiroth and steve.

Appearing in game like fortnite is often temporary and once again easier to negotiate.

sora isnt a movie character but as we have discussed for years on forums he is so closely held and tied to movie products that inherently this is tricky to set up. For example mickey is on soras deign.

wreck it ralph: yes bowser was in wreck it ralp 1. which releaseed a decade ago just fyi. guess who wasn't in the sequel? not a single nintendo character.

your last point is accurate and they could easily stick with FF music instead but SE music is complicated in itsown right and sakurai is really strict on wanting the music to be closely tied to the character or the game series.

 

[Schnee117]

You're facing a major uphill battle trying to convince me that Joker and Terry weren't Sakurai picks.

People saying this just out themselves as close minded and ignorant to be frank.

Joker? Atlus have a good relationship with Nintendo, extending so far as to make a "crossover" with Fire Emblem and SMT, and as the past few years have shown, they've been milking the Persona 5 cow hard including a bunch of crossovers.

Terry? Again, SNK have a strong relationship with Nintendo and again they're extremely open to crossovers. If Sakurai actually had his pick, we'd have Iori.

The only uphill battle is dealing with a stubborn refusal to actually look beyond "Haha Sakurai likes KOF and he praised Persona 5"

 

[GilTheGreat19]

People saying this just out themselves as close minded and ignorant to be frank.

Joker? Atlus have a good relationship with Nintendo, extending so far as to make a "crossover" with Fire Emblem and SMT, and as the past few years have shown, they've been milking the Persona 5 cow hard including a bunch of crossovers.

Terry? Again, SNK have a strong relationship with Nintendo and again they're extremely open to crossovers. If Sakurai actually had his pick, we'd have Iori.

The only uphill battle is dealing with a stubborn refusal to actually look beyond "Haha Sakurai likes KOF and he praised Persona 5"

I mean, it still should be considered that they are characters Sakurai’s clearly shown more love and interest toward, that’s all.
Not denying what you said just now, ofc.

 

[Deleted member]

To be honest, I'd commune more about my experiences here in this speculation community.

Making friends and enemies all to pursue an agenda that, yes, I do find silly at times.

 

[Momotsuki]

To be honest, I'd commune more about my experiences here in this speculation community.

Making friends and enemies all to pursue an agenda that, yes, I do find silly at times.

I can't be arsed to look at anyone here as a "friend" or "enemy," to be honest. That's true for online spaces in general, actually.
It's just kind of fun to chill here and talk about something you're excited about with people that are also interested in it.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

It just didn't have enough attention drawn to it at that point for a copycat to be at all probable.

Maybe that was a move to bring attention to the oct post with the sep post in some way lol idk, im just throwing out idea. Tbh im just happy to talk about my baby boy

 

[osby]

I mean, it still should be considered that they are characters Sakurai’s clearly shown more love and interest toward, that’s all.
Not denying what you said just now, ofc.

I think the problem is how people cherry-pick in this argument. For example, Sakurai is obviously an Advent Children fanboy but nobody says that Sephiroth is his personal bias pick.

Like, people can just say they never played Persona or KoF and move on.

 

[Gengar84]

I don’t really believe the Sora leak but I wouldn’t mind being wrong. I really enjoyed the Kingdom Hearts series even if I don’t care for Sora himself. Hopefully he opens the door for Ansem/Xemnas/Xehanort in the future similar to how Sephiroth got in in a later game. I’d love to see all three villains as a transformation style character.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Like, people can just say they never played Persona or KoF and move on.

Ah yes
The ol’ “I never played or heard of this series therefore it’s irrelevant and Sakurai probably just loves it to death or something” argument

 

[Schnee117]

Sakurai just loves a ton of games and he doesn't half-ass anything if he can help it. That's really all it is.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Sakurai just loves a ton of games and he doesn't half-ass anything if he can help it. That's really all it is.

He can’t even mention what games he likes to play cuz pole are going to assume “oh he’s playing this game, that game’s protagonist must be getting into smash!”
He said that himself in an episode of Harada’s Bar.
:/

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Like, people can just say they never played Persona or KoF and move on.

This reminds me of one dude who proudly claimed he was a hardcore gamer and that he had never heard of Dragon Quest and KoF and how the latter clearly wasn't on Nintendo back in the day or else he'd have heard of them. Pretty funny when compared to how people asked what the hell a Falcom is and suddenly most of the thread seems on board with the idea now

 

[Gengar84]

I think Melee was the last Smash game to add a character I have never heard of before. The only characters I didn’t know prior to joining Smash are Ness, Marth, Roy, the Ice Climbers, and Mr. Game and Watch.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

It might be my imagination but... - Super Smash Bros. Ultimate

For Super Smash Bros. Ultimate on the Nintendo Switch, a GameFAQs message board topic titled "It might be my imagination but...".

gamefaqs.gamespot.com

Surprised I never noticed it myself until rewatching the clip. He does seem to be subtly smiling.

Thoughts?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

It might be my imagination but... - Super Smash Bros. Ultimate

For Super Smash Bros. Ultimate on the Nintendo Switch, a GameFAQs message board topic titled "It might be my imagination but...".

gamefaqs.gamespot.com

Surprised I never noticed it myself until rewatching the clip. He does seem to be subtly smiling.

Thoughts?

What’s Koizumi known for?

 

[Garteam]

Joker and Terry's inclusions were likely a product of both columns a and b. Did stronger relations between Nintendo and Atlus/SNK help Joker and Terry get onto Nintendo's radar as potential DLC picks? Probably. Did Persona 5 and KoF having such a major impact on Smash Ultimate and Sakurai's general philosophy towards game design lead him to gravitate towards the idea of having characters from those products as DLC? Also probably.

Is that to say Joker and Terry "cheated" their way into Smash Bros by exploiting "Sakurai bias"? Of course not, both of their inclusions were clearly based upon a high degree of merit and I think it's fair to say both were great in their execution. However, it's also worth noting that there's no objective formula to adding a character to Smash and, at the end of day, Sakurai's decisions are built on his own subjective belief as to who would work best to a certain degree. These beliefs are formed by Sakurai's own experiences and his reflections on those experiences, just like all of us. Other directors might make different decisions given that they have different experiences which cause them perceive and think about development in a way that differs from Sakurai.

 

[blackghost]

Sakurai just loves a ton of games and he doesn't half-ass anything if he can help it. That's really all it is.

we've seen his living room the man has every system and 2 tvs set up next to each other. he loves games.

im glad its someone like him running the show and the roster somewhat becuase of some of these posters got to do it smash bros would be tier 4 Mario characters like toadsworth and shy guys.

 

[Theguy123]

It might be my imagination but... - Super Smash Bros. Ultimate

For Super Smash Bros. Ultimate on the Nintendo Switch, a GameFAQs message board topic titled "It might be my imagination but...".

gamefaqs.gamespot.com

Surprised I never noticed it myself until rewatching the clip. He does seem to be subtly smiling.

Thoughts?

doesn’t really point it much in my opinion but it is interesting.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

What’s Koizumi known for?

You're about to find out!
Snaps fingers

OK but was your question actually satire or no?

 

[XorahnGaia]

Smash DLC always ends with a Fire Emblem character, can’t see them breaking that pattern

Bayonetta is my favorite Fire Emblem character

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Bayonetta is my favorite Fire Emblem character

Well she certainly would’ve improved on Fates, but she still came with Corrin in both reveal and release iirc

 

[MrJudd]

It might be my imagination but... - Super Smash Bros. Ultimate

For Super Smash Bros. Ultimate on the Nintendo Switch, a GameFAQs message board topic titled "It might be my imagination but...".

gamefaqs.gamespot.com

Surprised I never noticed it myself until rewatching the clip. He does seem to be subtly smiling.

Thoughts?

Nintendo announces Smash is it's own presentation Smash fans: "Nah, it's gonna be another Byleth"
Nintendo does a countdown that's way bigger than the 10s Steve had Smash fans: "It's the countdown for disappointment"
Koizumi smiles subtly Smash fans: "GET HYPE GUYS, IT'S GONNA BE SORA OR MASTER CHIEF!!!!"

This community never ceases to amaze me and how deep they go when the answers they are looking for are much easier to find lol
(disclaimer: characters used are just illustrative examples for this skit)

 

[AreJay25]

Koizumi was probably just smiling about the lunch he was gonna eat after filming the Direct. I hear it was a really good meatball sub.

 

[Jondolio]

People seem to be awfully defensive regarding the notion that the character who comes from the game that inspired Sakurai to create Smash is "a Sakurai pick" when it wasn't even used maliciously

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Nintendo announces Smash is it's own presentation Smash fans: "Nah, it's gonna be another Byleth"
Nintendo does a countdown that's way bigger than the 10s Steve had Smash fans: "It's the countdown for disappointment"
Koizumi smiles subtly Smash fans: "GET HYPE GUYS, IT'S GONNA BE SORA OR MASTER CHIEF!!!!"

This community never ceases to amaze me and how deep they go when the answers they are looking for are much easier to find lol
(disclaimer: characters used are just illustrative examples for this skit)

They don't realize that in any way, any character could be hype

 

[Gengar84]

Nintendo announces Smash is it's own presentation Smash fans: "Nah, it's gonna be another Byleth"
Nintendo does a countdown that's way bigger than the 10s Steve had Smash fans: "It's the countdown for disappointment"
Koizumi smiles subtly Smash fans: "GET HYPE GUYS, IT'S GONNA BE SORA OR MASTER CHIEF!!!!"

This community never ceases to amaze me and how deep they go when the answers they are looking for are much easier to find lol
(disclaimer: characters used are just illustrative examples for this skit)

Almost all of my most wanted characters would be disappointing to the general Smash community so I’d be happier with them than a huge character like Sora or Chief. I’d still be happy with a big name character but not exactly hyped.

 

[warubyun]

What’s Koizumi known for?

All kinds of roles within design, animation, production and direction, mostly for Mario and Zelda games. However, the last Zelda he was involved with was Majora's Mask 3D, or Wind Waker if we only include "original" titles, while he's been on board for every mainline Mario game since 64. But he's not the original creator or "brains" behind any of Nintendo's series, if that's what we're looking for.

Anyway, I feel like this might be reading a bit too much into it? To me it looks like the guy is smiling or smirking ever so slightly during the entirety of every Direct he presents. But on the slim chance (and that's a monster huge slim) that there is something to it, and if we consider his history, I guess it'd make most sense that he'd be smiling about a Mario character?

 

[Sigran101]

It might be my imagination but... - Super Smash Bros. Ultimate

For Super Smash Bros. Ultimate on the Nintendo Switch, a GameFAQs message board topic titled "It might be my imagination but...".

gamefaqs.gamespot.com

Surprised I never noticed it myself until rewatching the clip. He does seem to be subtly smiling.

Thoughts?

Literally the most meaningless speculation of all time. I can't even figure out how to "debunk" this argument because I can't figure out what the justification for this meaning something could possibly be to begin with. Are people not even allowed to smile without it being a smash hint now?

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Are people not even allowed to smile without it being a smash hint now?

This IS about Smash itself though, no hint needed. Unless you're referring to the idea "Oh he's smiling, maybe the particular character is a big one!" ?
Also, better to talk about than not talk at all I guess.

 

[Sigran101]

This IS about Smash itself though, no hint needed. Unless you're referring to the idea "Oh he's smiling, maybe the particular character is a big one!" ?
Also, better to talk about than not talk at all I guess.

A smile during an announcement doesn't indicate the character is a big one though. People just smile. Especially PR people. Even if it were to mean something, we don't know what characters the guy is a personal fan of. How could that possibly indicate Master Chief? This makes chair theory look like a galaxy brain theory.

 

[Dukefire]

It might not be either Master Chief or Sora if people are considering them as the finale picks. It could be someone else, so I will say that don't invest ALL YOUR TIME onto one character since Sakurai is unpredictable.