Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[DarthEnderX]

#SmashBrosUltimate #SmashBros fans its time to CHOOSE. YOUR. TIMELINE.
In the comments I’m gonna hold a poll, which one of these four options would you choose for the last two characters?
All these options have the pass be 50/50 with First and Third Parties. pic.twitter.com/pq4SAt0O0C

— Dusty🍉 (@DustyPumpking) March 2, 2021

I'd personally choose Pokemon and Crash/Coco.

The combos all kinda suck to be honest. But that's to be expected from insisting on a mix of 1st and 3rd.

Hayabusa is getting robbed because of the dead weight he's partnered with.

Ngl, I don't have an opinion on Touhou either way, but I have to say I'm curious to see how Sakurai would adapt something like this in Smash:

Probably the same way the Touhou fighting games adapted her.

Ha ha I still can't get that mental image out of my head of that blank stare a Dante Mii would have. You know who is known for being video game persona. xD

Such persona.

 

[Megadoomer]

Devil Trigger

That's just a super mode. You might as well be saying that Sonic shouldn't have been included because Super Sonic would make him too overpowered. (also, with the sheer amount of options that Dante has, Devil Trigger could just be limited to his final smash)

 

[Dinoman96]

Speaking of gimmicky Smash 4 newcomers, I'm still pretty stung at how much of a complete trainwreck Palutena was back in Smash 4.

They literally gimped her on purpose by giving her to the worst possible specials while throwing all her actually good moves that made her worth playing like Super Speed and Lightweight into the custom moves bin, which means they were completely forgotten about because no one wanted to touch custom specials with a ten inch pole by the end of 2015.

Like people complain about how annoying Ultimate Palutena is but she seriously needed all the help she could get, she was probably the worst executed newcomer in Smash 4 by far.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

That's just a super mode. You might as well be saying that Sonic shouldn't be included because Super Sonic would make him too overpowered.

Tbf Super Sonic is a final smash and DT's been portrayed like a final smash in the anime as he only used it once there. Though it's an Install and Smash already has those, so it isn't an issue

 

[DarkFalcon]

I'm very glad I'm not the only one who despises playing against Little Mac. The most unfun character to fight against in the roster. His ridiculous ground speed and super armor is so unfun online where there's frame delay. The best way to deal with him makes the game even more unfun. Regardless of how easy or tough the Mac player is it feels like I just wasted my time instead of playing a game I like.

 

[Cosmic77]

someone is gonna complain literally no matter what.

Well of course. Someone will always be unhappy with a character.

Yeah Dan type characters usually fit better in a base roster. Dan works for SFV because he’s already solidified his status as a beloved character a long time ago, and SFV is several dlc seasons in at this point.

If Piranha Plant were added in Melee, I think he'd have a much more positive image. A lot of people would likely see him as a necessary inclusion due to how long he'd be in the series by now. As Fighter #70 though, most people seem to think that he wasn't necessary or shouldn't exist at all. As unorthodox and unexpected as he was, people don't appreciate PP as much as they would a more serious addition.

And Piranha Plant isn't even a character who was intentionally made to be bad. Imagine how people would respond if Sakurai ever said, "Actually, I added this character because I thought it'd be funny to have a character who was truly one of, if not the worst character in the game."

 

[Louie G.]

See, I came to a realization about Mac being like that a while ago which kinda makes sense. Little Mac's designed as if he was a Punch Out enemy, not the player character. He's a truck but he has easily exposed weaknesses that you need to capitalize on if you don't want to get floored. It's really interesting but I'd personally rather have had this for a second character, not for Mac himself. Like Doc Louis

Yeah you're totally right, and I agree that it would be better served through a different character.

My mentality if I had designed Mac would be to make it so that he has tools to exploit specific weaknesses from the other fighters / emphasis on bob and weave sorta mechanics to HARD punish slow moves. And in turn Mac would be super light, as he is already, and his smash attacks and additional punish attacks would have particularly exploitable cooldown if you whiffed (and of course he gets countered pretty hard from zoners too).

His weaknesses already write themselves where I feel like at that point making him completely useless in the air is just too much, so he's got some Balrog / Dudley esque aerials which are serviceable but a bit laggy and his recovery is still not great.

 

[Dinoman96]

Also Mac really needs the same dodge attack Terry has.

 

[3BitSaurus]

That's just a super mode. You might as well be saying that Sonic shouldn't have been included because Super Sonic would make him too overpowered.

Heck, even in MvC3, Dante's transformation was a super, not something you'd see him pull out randomly.

Speaking of gimmicky Smash 4 newcomers, I'm still pretty stung at how much of a complete trainwreck Palutena was back in Smash 4.

They literally gimped her on purpose by giving her to the worst possible specials while throwing all her actually good moves that made her worth playing like Super Speed and Lightweight into the custom moves bin, which means they were completely forgotten about because no one wanted to touch custom specials with a ten inch poll by the end of 2015.

Like people complain about how annoying Ultimate Palutena is but she seriously needed all the help she could get, she was probably the worst executed newcomer in Smash 4 by far.

This kind of thing is a good part of why 4's first party newcomers are my least favorite in general. I feel like a lot of them had interesting concepts, but poor execution. Shulk and Little Mac are imo the worst cases of this, but there's a few others.

A lot of them just got stuck with weird gimmicks that just make them less interesting to play in the long run - like risk with no reward. I was particularly disappointed with the two I mentioned. They would have easily been in my top 5 best Smash 4 newcomers if it wasn't for their gameplay.

 

[SharkLord]

The one with Euden. Don't know anything about Touhou, but hey, that's what this thread is for, right?

This is all you need to know

Swear warning, just so you know

Also, it's made by this guy

So yeah. That's Touhou for you.

 

[Louie G.]

Also Mac really needs the same dodge attack Terry has.

God yes dude, how did I not think of that? It's literally perfect for him.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Yeah you're totally right, and I agree that it would be better served through a different character. My mentality if I had designed Mac would be to make it so that he has tools to exploit specific weaknesses from the other fighters / emphasis on bob and weave sorta mechanics to HARD punish slow moves. And in turn Mac would be super light and his smash attacks and additional punish attacks would have particularly exploitable cooldown if you whiffed.

These bob and weave mechanics being easy as **** to add with Mac having a Dandy Step

Pilebunker's just good but Slayer has 2 other ways of following up on Dandy Step, with one of those having another follow up. It's honestly perfect for Mac

 

[Mushroomguy12]

#SmashBrosUltimate #SmashBros fans its time to CHOOSE. YOUR. TIMELINE.
In the comments I’m gonna hold a poll, which one of these four options would you choose for the last two characters?
All these options have the pass be 50/50 with First and Third Parties. pic.twitter.com/pq4SAt0O0C

— Dusty🍉 (@DustyPumpking) March 2, 2021

I'd personally choose Pokemon and Crash/Coco.

I'd pick Chorus Kids and Arle.

 

[Deleted member]

The combos all kinda suck to be honest. But that's to be expected from insisting on a mix of 1st and 3rd.

Hayabusa is getting robbed because of the dead weight he's partnered with.

I kinda feel like the mismatched/ slightly unhyped nature of them makes the duos more believable since I don't think it's really going to end on an internet-shattering reveal anyway.

 

[GoodGrief741]

#SmashBrosUltimate #SmashBros fans its time to CHOOSE. YOUR. TIMELINE.
In the comments I’m gonna hold a poll, which one of these four options would you choose for the last two characters?
All these options have the pass be 50/50 with First and Third Parties. pic.twitter.com/pq4SAt0O0C

— Dusty🍉 (@DustyPumpking) March 2, 2021

I'd personally choose Pokemon and Crash/Coco.

I'm fine with Euden/Reimu and Chorus Kids/Arle. Felix over Isaac would feel like a big "**** you" to Isaac's fanbase (even if Felix is the better character) and Pokemon really doesn't need another fighter.

 

[SKX31]

The only two joke characters we've had are Jigglypuff and Pichu, and both were last minute additions but also were very popular Pokemon and not all that risky.

So it's a matter of context.

Incidentally both have been good throughout the series too. Pichu had to be nerfed in Ultimate, which is saying something. Jigglypuff was a lot better than he expected(though it is bad in Brawl, at least, among other games. I can't remember every game Jigglypuff was actually bad in besides that).

Jigglypuff's had it kinda rough:

64: Decent, considered a middle-of-the-pack character. Had a stronger Rest confirm than in Melee, but that's partly because in 64 every character was a combo machine; 64 was "massive hitstun the game".

Melee: You know. One of Smash Bros' most influential players period made a career out of playing it and he became highly associated with Puff. Also the game where it has the Wall of Pain. Rare defensive powerhouse in a game where interactive extensions are central.

Brawl: Sakurai smacked the poor balloon hard with the nerf hammer. Also, really struggled in a game where unless you're Meta Knight you couldn't hard-confirm into much. Mewtwoking and Salem dubbed the territory Jigglypuff found itself in "Depression-tier" in their most recent Brawl video.

4: Nerfed a bit further, to the point where its lack of buffs became a meme within the competitive side. 4's weaker shields and Rage did not help it in the slightest.

Ultimate: Buffed, but remains in weird low / mid-tier limbo at the moment. There's no solid consensus, but it's not near the majority of the cast who currently occupy the higher ends of the viability scale. Ultimate's the kind of game where a solid 50 - 60 % of the cast can rack up damage like no tomorrow thanks to the aerials' utility. Neutral game and KO options are seen as sore spots.

I apologize if I offended anyone if it came across like that. My complaint is entirely lodged at the game devs, not the character or anyone who is a fan of the character. It's like Bayo in Smash 4; I don't have anything against the character, it's just that the design the devs implemented made the game worse.

It's okay. As said, honest miscommunication really.

Also, more battle passes (not really Smash related, but still, worth it to share):

Fresh footage of Tencents' Pokémon Unite surfaces, reveals battle pass https://t.co/4SkGvjqhf3

— Eurogamer (@eurogamer) March 3, 2021

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I'm fine with Euden/Reimu and Chorus Kids/Arle. Felix over Isaac would feel like a big "**** you" to Isaac's fanbase (even if Felix is the better character) and Pokemon really doesn't need another fighter.

It's been like 6 years since I played Golden Sun but would it really matter if Felix got in over Isaac? Isaac's obviously more iconic but I really can't see a smidge of backlash over Isaac specifically getting snubbed while the franchise gets acknowledged and introduced to a new audience.

 

[Otoad64]

It's been like 6 years since I played Golden Sun but would it really matter if Felix got in over Isaac? Isaac's obviously more iconic but I really can't see a smidge of backlash over Isaac specifically getting snubbed while the franchise gets acknowledged and introduced to a new audience.

except that Isaac is one of the most requested characters.

it'd be like adding another Metroid character over Ridley

 

[GoodGrief741]

It's been like 6 years since I played Golden Sun but would it really matter if Felix got in over Isaac? Isaac's obviously more iconic but I really can't see a smidge of backlash over Isaac specifically getting snubbed while the franchise gets acknowledged and introduced to a new audience.

I don't expect backlash because we're starved for Golden Sun content, but obviously all the vocal support has been for Isaac and not Felix so they'd be skipping him for absolutely no reason (other than he's an Assist Trophy I guess).

 

[SharkLord]

It's been like 6 years since I played Golden Sun but would it really matter if Felix got in over Isaac? Isaac's obviously more iconic but I really can't see a smidge of backlash over Isaac specifically getting snubbed while the franchise gets acknowledged and introduced to a new audience.

I dunno, it'd feel kinda awkward that everyone's been rallying behind Isaac specifically for years, only to for him to get snubbed yet again. It'd be like Mallow over Geno, or Kraid over Ridley. It's the same series, there's most likely some overlap in the fandoms, and there'd be a lot of people who'd take what they're given, but there's also bound to be some people who are miffed that their boy got passes over. Doubly so because Felix shares the same powerset as Isaac and they could easily be alts of each other, so there really isn't any reason to choose him beyond strictly adhering to the AT rule.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

except that Isaac is one of the most requested characters.

it'd be like adding another Metroid character over Ridley

Yeah but unlike with another Metroid character over Ridley, Felix is literally Isaac but with a nifty backstory, Isaac barely even talks in 2 and by that point he joins the party, becoming silent once again iirc

I don't expect backlash because we're starved for Golden Sun content, but obviously all the vocal support has been for Isaac and not Felix so they'd be skipping him for absolutely no reason (other than he's an Assist Trophy I guess).

Considering the options on that tweet I think that's the mentality the poster had in mind, but honestly, if we get Felix and Sakurai says "Yeah nah an AT was fine but we still wanted a Golden Sun character", I'd grow incredibly judgemental of the fanbase if this caused backlash, especially if Golden Sun ends up getting revived as a result.

 

[JOJONumber691]

See, I came to a realization about Mac being like that a while ago which kinda makes sense. Little Mac's designed as if he was a Punch Out enemy, not the player character. He's a truck but he has easily exposed weaknesses that you need to capitalize on if you don't want to get floored. It's really interesting but I'd personally rather have had this for a second character, not for Mac himself. Like Doc Louis

Your description really didn't fit DT at all, I'm gonna assume you're serious so I'll explain.

Devil Trigger is a resource Dante needs to build up in his games as a reward, and though Smash and other fighters like giving characters like this the resource when getting hit, it's always considerably less than what you'd get if you hit someone. This alone can really help balance it out, because if DT isn't easy to build up and lasts a rather short time, boom, problem solved, Dante players would need to think when it's best to use DT or else they've wasted it. Hell, this mechanic already kinda exists in Smash with Joker and Cloud. The idea that DT would instantly make Dante SSS tier is fearmongering as not only does it ignore the countless ways to balance Dante outside of DT, but Dante's FGC debut didn't even bust heads. He was good in MvC3, sure, but his biggest problem then is an easy solution for Smash, Dante doesn't hit that hard meaning he has to work harder to rack up damage than most, comboing a character for 40 seconds only means so much when a large chunk of the cast can do just as much in a few hits.

Still, I gotta see Dante, balanced, in a Platform Fighter, playing just like his source material, in order to not have concerns Dante could be extremely broken.

 

[Louie G.]

Speaking of gimmicky Smash 4 newcomers, I'm still pretty stung at how much of a complete trainwreck Palutena was back in Smash 4.

I should mention that not only was Little Mac my MW, but Palutena wasn't far behind. Smash 4's character selection was kind to me, but clearly there had to be some sort of catch to what I want LOL. At least K. Rool was added in Ultimate and exactly the way I always wanted him to be.

Palutena bugs me in particular because her reliance on custom moves feels so arbitrary. Like, it's neat that she had that but she was obviously balanced around it for some reason? And seeing how customs were more or less a bust it was kind of pointless to do so.

This was an instance where it felt like they tacked something onto Palutena just to make her feel more fresh and unique than she was - but she didn't NEED to be anything more than a staff-wielding light magic user, because we don't really have anyone else like that to begin with. I'm glad that Ultimate has redeemed her. Screw you guys she deserves to be top tier this time.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Still, I gotta see Dante, balanced, in a Platform Fighter, playing just like his source material, in order to not have concerns Dante could be extremely broken.

No character is a 1 to 1 adaptation of their source material and like I said, Dante having some pretty laggy combo starters and weak overall damage output doesn't sound farfetched. Again, he wasn't broken at all in MvC3 or UMvC3. I can't speak on Infinite much due to lack of interest but Crazy Dance was only as good as it was due to the changed tag system letting you freely tag in and combo off of the lengthy animation, one attack does not a broken character make

 

[Staarih]

This kind of thing is a good part of why 4's first party newcomers are my least favorite in general. I feel like a lot of them had interesting concepts, but poor execution. Shulk and Little Mac are imo the worst cases of this, but there's a few others.

A lot of them just got stuck with weird gimmicks that just make them less interesting to play in the long run - like risk with no reward. I was particularly disappointed with the two I mentioned. They would have easily been in my top 5 best Smash 4 newcomers if it wasn't for their gameplay.

Smash 4 newcomers were a weird bunch overall really haha, at least in hindsight. I feel like a lot of them didn't really have much... "oomph" to them in the end, partly probably because of the reason you stated. Or maybe it's just because the Wii U kinda came and went and suddenly it was Ultimate time already (at least that's what it felt to me). I feel like I'm being newly introduced to some of them via Ultimate. Sometimes I forget Rosalina is a character for example, even though she had one of the best reveal trailers. I hardly ever see one online.

 

[CureParfait]

#SmashBrosUltimate #SmashBros fans its time to CHOOSE. YOUR. TIMELINE.
In the comments I’m gonna hold a poll, which one of these four options would you choose for the last two characters?
All these options have the pass be 50/50 with First and Third Parties. pic.twitter.com/pq4SAt0O0C

— Dusty🍉 (@DustyPumpking) March 2, 2021

I'd personally choose Pokemon and Crash/Coco.

Pokemon and Crash/Coco if Pokeball upgrade is possible, if not Euden and Reimu.

 

[JOJONumber691]

That's just a super mode. You might as well be saying that Sonic shouldn't have been included because Super Sonic would make him too overpowered. (also, with the sheer amount of options that Dante has, Devil Trigger could just be limited to his final smash)

Then that breaks how Devil Trigger works. Super Sonic has been consistently shown as Sonic’s Final Form, Devil Trigger can’t work like a Final Smash in Ultimate due to the simplification of Final Smash’s. If this were before Ultimate I would agree, but considering how Ultimate handled the Final Smash, I just don’t see it.

 

[The Fantasy Smasher]

Speaking of gimmicky Smash 4 newcomers, I'm still pretty stung at how much of a complete trainwreck Palutena was back in Smash 4.

They literally gimped her on purpose by giving her to the worst possible specials while throwing all her actually good moves that made her worth playing like Super Speed and Lightweight into the custom moves bin, which means they were completely forgotten about because no one wanted to touch custom specials with a ten inch pole by the end of 2015.

Like people complain about how annoying Ultimate Palutena is but she seriously needed all the help she could get, she was probably the worst executed newcomer in Smash 4 by far.

I couldn't agree with this more. Thank goodness they gave her a proper upgrade in Ultimate. They perhaps gave her the most bland and boring moveset of any smash 4 character. Another counter, reflect and teleport, while all of he interesting moves are locked behind customs. Its sort of bizarre how she was the only character who has customs completely different from one another. Many were simply different versions of the same move, while Palutena had a ton of completely different abilities with each one. Either way, I'm once more super happy they revamped her in Ultimate. I actually wish the went a little further and replaced her up special as well, but alas.

 

[Idon]

Dante does not have jump cancel, royal guard, animation cancelling, or set knockback.
It is literally impossible for Dante to achieve his max potential brokeness.

Also Smash 4 first parties had a nasty habit of Sakurai shoving an overbearing gimmick on em. Shulk still stuck with his clunky sword he stores on his back and no true monado art attacks while Pyra gets 7 special moves.

Fair.

 

[Pillow]

Still, I gotta see Dante, balanced, in a Platform Fighter, playing just like his source material, in order to not have concerns Dante could be extremely broken.

Dante isn't even the strongest canonical fighter in Smash, so I'm not sure why you single him out specifically. Tons of **** could conceivably be broken if you strictly stick to source material. Have you tried to fight Mewtwo with a Pichu while playing a Pokemon game?

Yeah you're totally right, and I agree that it would be better served through a different character.

My mentality if I had designed Mac would be to make it so that he has tools to exploit specific weaknesses from the other fighters / emphasis on bob and weave sorta mechanics to HARD punish slow moves. And in turn Mac would be super light, as he is already, and his smash attacks and additional punish attacks would have particularly exploitable cooldown if you whiffed (and of course he gets countered pretty hard from zoners too).

His weaknesses already write themselves where I feel like at that point making him completely useless in the air is just too much, so he's got some Balrog / Dudley esque aerials which are serviceable but a bit laggy and his recovery is still not great.

Just going to piggyback off of the most recent Mac comment I could find to just say I personally think Little Mac's moveset is fine relative to a lot of Smash characters. Is he bad with a toxic playstyle? Absolutely. Do I wish his ground moves were safer on shield? Sure. But I think overall he delivers on the boxer fantasy pretty well.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Then that breaks how Devil Trigger works. Super Sonic has been consistently shown as Sonic’s Final Form, Devil Trigger can’t work like a Final Smash in Ultimate due to the simplification of Final Smash’s. If this were before Ultimate I would agree, but considering how Ultimate handled the Final Smash, I just don’t see it.

It'd be infinitely more interesting as an Install but Ultimate style Final Smashes can still work, especially for Sin Devil Trigger. Have Dante go DT and pull off crazy combos in the cinematic before going SDT and delivering a massive final blow to end it.

 

[JOJONumber691]

No character is a 1 to 1 adaptation of their source material and like I said, Dante having some pretty laggy combo starters and weak overall damage output doesn't sound farfetched. Again, he wasn't broken at all in MvC3 or UMvC3. I can't speak on Infinite much due to lack of interest but Crazy Dance was only as good as it was due to the changed tag system letting you freely tag in and combo off of the lengthy animation, one attack does not a broken character make

And those are traditional fighting games. Smash Works in a way that prevents Dante from feeling like Dante without risk of being broken, considering the lack of damage approach doesn’t work as soon as you get rid of a normal health bar. Because Devil May Cry is all over the place, with a Sword, on top of Devil Trigger. Again, I can’t see Dante bring balanced. If I’m wrong and by some miracle Bayonetta with a Sword and Arsene is Balanced, then I will be happy for you and you. I simply can’t see Dante being that Balanced. It’s a legitimate concern.

 

[Lyncario]

Then that breaks how Devil Trigger works. Super Sonic has been consistently shown as Sonic’s Final Form, Devil Trigger can’t work like a Final Smash in Ultimate due to the simplification of Final Smash’s. If this were before Ultimate I would agree, but considering how Ultimate handled the Final Smash, I just don’t see it.

Or Dante could just go Sin Devil Trigger for his final Smash and use Judgement or Demolition.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

And those are traditional fighting games. Smash Works in a way that prevents Dante from feeling like Dante without risk of being broken, considering the lack of damage approach doesn’t work as soon as you get rid of a normal health bar. Because Devil May Cry is all over the place, with a Sword, on top of Devil Trigger. Again, I can’t see Dante bring balanced. If I’m wrong and by some miracle Bayonetta with a Sword and Arsene is Balanced, then I will be happy for you and you. I simply can’t see Dante being that Balanced. It’s a legitimate concern.

This argument makes no sense at all. Smash doesn't use traditional health bars so this idea to balance Dante won't work? Despite multiple characters in Smash having that very weakness already meaning it can and does work? Especially if you make DT very limited so that Dante cannot abuse it like literally every Install in the history of the fighting game genre?

 

[Louie G.]

Just going to piggyback off of the most recent Mac comment I could find to just say I personally think Little Mac's moveset is fine relative to a lot of Smash characters. Is he bad with a toxic playstyle? Absolutely. Do I wish his ground moves were safer on shield? Sure. But I think overall he delivers on the boxer fantasy pretty well.

May sound silly to say this, but the "boxer fantasy" isn't really the "Punch-Out fantasy". Punch-Out is more of a strategy puzzle game than a sports game, so simple raw power punching with a polarizing largely unrelated gimmick doesn't exactly give me the feeling of playing that character from that series in Smash.

I also can't think of many other characters who are close to his level of outright broken design - considering so much of Smash is about aerial play - nor many that miss the point of the home series to such a great extent. And yeah sorry if I sound a bit whiny or entitled about it, but Punch-Out means a lot to me and it doesn't feel like it meant quite as much to the Smash team.

But I should stress again that even with Mac in his current form I'm thankful he's in the game at all - still feel that all the criticism is valid, though.

 

[SirCamp]

So I found this image on Twitter. And uh... wasn’t that same icon found in Ultimate’s game files at one point? Or am I completely losing my mind??

 

[Cutie Gwen]

So I found this image on Twitter. And uh... wasn’t that same icon found in Ultimate’s game files at one point? Or am I completely losing my mind??

No, the image was only ever seen prior due to Bamco putting a trademark for it

 

[Louie G.]

So I found this image on Twitter. And uh... wasn’t that same icon found in Ultimate’s game files at one point? Or am I completely losing my mind??

Not in Ultimate's files - there was a trademark placed on that particular image and people believed it looked like a Smash series icon. Obviously seeing how it was used here it had no correlation to Smash.

 

[SirCamp]

No, the image was only ever seen prior due to Bamco putting a trademark for it

Ooooh okay that makes sense. I knew I saw it in this thread before so I was like wait????? But yeah, got it. I don’tnormally follow Tales news so I forgot about the context of that and then that image caught me off guard lol. Whoops

 

[SharkLord]

If Smash needed to stay 100% loyal to the source material, Samus could spam a million lasers at once and fly indefinitely with the Screw Attack. If Smash needed to stay 100% loyal to the source material, Robin would be able to spam Nosferatu all over the place. If Smash needed to stay 100% loyal to the source material, Min Min would be able to vibe check you from all the way across Final Destination rather than just halfway across. If Smash needed to stay 100% loyal to the source material, Bayonetta would have a %$#@ton of weaponry, not just her guns.

Liberties can be taken to allow characters to remain balanced and have them fit in with Smash's gameplay without being "unloyal" to their home series. Dante can just have great combo potential and poor kill power, maybe a Devil Trigger on the side that doesn't give too much of a boost compared to, say, Arsene. It's not that hard.