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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

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7NATOR

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Now i wonder how many of this leakers actually heard Crash name.
Regarding Crash, I Believe that the Same guy that told Papagenos Banjo's Mii costume wave before it was revealed (well not Sans), also said that Crash was coming. However while it was the same guy that told him, the Actual source of the Mii costumes and Crash come from Different Places

I believe the Crash thing was from an IGN Source, while I don't know where the Mii Costumes came from

There's also that "Leaked" Document about Crash's 5 year plan that included Smash. The 5 year plan is an actual thing, but there's no evidence that Smash was apart of it. There have been "Crash leakers" that said it was real, but I don't think the source of these Crash leakers was shown and the actual Document wasn't shown off, despite it apparently being Leaked?

There was also Mandycan, but He was confirmed to be Fake leaker that did Twitter Trick

There was also the guy that Apparently had Early Screenshot of the "Smash X Cuphead" Splash screen, and he said Crash was in (I Believe Fighter 6). I think that one not credible though
 

Shroob

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At the end of the day, we can discuss the Chun Leak until we're blue in the face, but due to the nature of it, there's no real way to prove or disprove it.

The only way at this point is:


A: Wait til March and see if the MonHun costumes come alongside a non-Capcom character

or

B: Wait and hope that the Capcom giga leak dumps something Smash related
 

Momotsuki

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You know, since we’re bringing up old speculation stuff, I’ve got to ask...

Did “Jane” ever amount to anything? I can’t seem to recall if the speculation community concluded it to be a scrapped Kasumi alt/echo for Joker or something else.
Wait - what? Jane? Enlighten me. This sounds like something I was probably here for but...
 

Arcanir

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Wait - what? Jane? Enlighten me. This sounds like something I was probably here for but...
Jane was found in the datamine in Joker's files. It was determined to be a female alt of some sort as it was a ponytail file and it was listed in a way that was separate from the other female characters in the series. A lot of fans came to the conclusion that it was meant to be for Kasumi, who was introduced in Royal I believe a month later, but ultimately nothing happened with it so it was probably leftover data.
 

SharkLord

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I understand your logic even though I don't fully agree with it, although this particular bit is kind of frustrating to hear so often. I do agree that, if you're anticipating or hyping up Chun-Li based on this alone - which I definitely have seen people do - then it's misguided. But this is a bit different.

With Min Min and Steve, for the most part, people weren't predicting anything that was very far out of what we could have already reasonably been talking about. A new Pokemon and Rex, for example, were already characters on people's radar. Fortnite had usually come up jokingly before Steve, but was hardly out of the question. These assumptions were founded in the confines of what we already deemed possible - outside of Min Min confirming that spirits can be promoted, which is something that I believe many of us were speculating as is. It moreso just skewed speculation in those directions within the bubble rather than expanding the bubble.

Sephiroth, contrary to these two, breaks down a significant barrier that restricted speculation before. If you had thrown in someone like Eggman or Chun-Li before, you probably would have been told it's silly to expect extra content for third parties when there are new series that can be tackled - that Sakurai emphasized how excited he was to add "new worlds" to Smash. Now we know that it simply isn't an obstacle anymore - and moreso than expecting it, I think most people are just excited that this has been opened up for us. It's a reminder not to limit yourself to these barriers that we've put up as a community and consider that maybe certain standards or quotas matter more to us than they do the guys in charge. It's also a reminder to start thinking about characters rather than just thinking about reps.

I had been supporting Chun-Li beforehand, but I've become much more vocal now after learning that my wishes were not unfounded and actually had a chance of coming true. And with Sephiroth here, there's at least the basis to say that Chun-Li's chances are not that bad. She's one of the most iconic video game characters currently absent from the roster - that alone could justify her quite easily. So I'm personally glad that we're having conversations about her, and validity of that 5ch leak aside I think she's a character people should have been talking about a lot sooner.
Yeah, I understand jumping at the chance to discuss someone. Heck, that's exactly what I did with Adol after the Falcom leak came back. It just feels kinda weird that Chun-Li just managed to hijack the discussion completely, to the point that you'd think a Tales rep was mentioned, or even that there's anything to the rumor beyond Chun-Li. Heck, we've even started calling it the Chun-Leak. It just feels like she's gotten a disproportionate amount of attention.

And to be fair, there were heated debates on Spirits and deconfirmations before Min Min gave us a definitive answer. I don't think Sephiroth is alone in expanding the Smash bubble.
 

Shroob

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Yeah, I understand jumping at the chance to discuss someone. Heck, that's exactly what I did with Adol after the Falcom leak came back. It just feels kinda weird that Chun-Li just managed to hijack the discussion completely, to the point that you'd think a Tales rep was mentioned, or even that there's anything to the rumor beyond Chun-Li. Heck, we've even started calling it the Chun-Leak. It just feels like she's gotten a disproportionate amount of attention.

And to be fair, there were heated debates on Spirits and deconfirmations before Min Min gave us a definitive answer. I don't think Sephiroth is alone in expanding the Smash bubble.
As for why Chun, I'll say it once and I'll say it again.

I think everyone's somewhat subconsciously expecting Capcom, and with Rise coming out in March, the same month of CP9 presumably, and the game coming out the exact same day as the next Amiibo wave, coupled with the missing MonHun costumes, people are subconsciously thinking Capcom.

Yeah, theoretically, more people would be talking about MonHun due to the obvious promotion, but then this leak came out and I think it just kinda "clicked" with people, on top of their somewhat acceptance of "Capcom could very well be next."
 
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7NATOR

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Yeah, I understand jumping at the chance to discuss someone. Heck, that's exactly what I did with Adol after the Falcom leak came back. It just feels kinda weird that Chun-Li just managed to hijack the discussion completely, to the point that you'd think a Tales rep was mentioned, or even that there's anything to the rumor beyond Chun-Li. Heck, we've even started calling it the Chun-Leak. It just feels like she's gotten a disproportionate amount of attention.

And to be fair, there were heated debates on Spirits and deconfirmations before Min Min gave us a definitive answer. I don't think Sephiroth is alone in expanding the Smash bubble.
Personally, I think people might have given up on Tales of because

-Namco Costumes are coming back Separately in FP2, while we haven't had Capcom Costume in FP2
-Sephiroth is RPG Character, and also has Sword, and Lloyd and Yuri, the most popular suggestions, use Swords. Of course I don't think this is the major reason, but I think the above is

I think Chun-Li also dominates because Chun-Li, before Sephiroth, really hasn't been in Speculation much. Tales of has been in Speculation alot with Lloyd and sometimes Yuri driving up Discussion

As for why Chun, I'll say it once and I'll say it again.

I think everyone's somewhat subconsciously expecting Capcom, and with Rise coming out in March, the same month of CP9 presumably, and the game coming out the exact same day as the next Amiibo wave, coupled with the missing MonHun costumes, people are subconsciously thinking Capcom.

Yeah, theoretically, more people would be talking about MonHun due to the obvious promotion, but then this leak came out and I think it just kinda "clicked" with people, on top of their somewhat acceptance of "Capcom could very well be next."
Also this post as well
 
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To be frank, the recent batch of supposed leaks don't really give me anything to be excited about. The first 2 leaks between Crei-MOS and Doom Rayabusa are names we've seen get thrown around often in speculation, and despite me wanting Hayabusa, I'd much rather see other not so talked about faces to be the final 3. Those kinds of characters actually get me more interested in wanting to know more about their series [if I didn't know beforehand] and how most people would think of those series than the characters most people are predicting.

Then, there's the Tales of Chun post that focuses on Chun-Li and the Tales series. It comes off like the idea of Vol 2 is bringing scrapped or delayed content to Ultimate, and really, I'm not so interested in that direction. Unlike FF7, Street Fighter has a good amount of content already in the game, so while she is huge in her own right as the Fighting Game First Lady, I can't say I'd be down for Chun-Li. The Tales of Series is 1 that I'm not so familiar with, so it really just depends on what character is chosen. That guy from Arise looks cool enough for me to be pretty interested, and I can't go wrong with Velvet, but I can't say they're anywhere near my most wanted list.

This will probably be the talk of the town until we reach the next reveal especially the 5chn post, so I'll just give out my thoughts on those and leave it at that unless something goes down. The road to CP9 is gonna be a long 1.
 

SharkLord

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To be frank, the recent batch of supposed leaks don't really give me anything to be excited about. The first 2 leaks between Crei-MOS and Doom Rayabusa are names we've seen get thrown around often in speculation, and despite me wanting Hayabusa, I'd much rather see other not so talked about faces to be the final 3. Those kinds of characters actually get me more interested in wanting to know more about their series [if I didn't know beforehand] and how most people would think of those series than the characters most people are predicting.

Then, there's the Tales of Chun post that focuses on Chun-Li and the Tales series. It comes off like the idea of Vol 2 is bringing scrapped or delayed content to Ultimate, and really, I'm not so interested in that direction. Unlike FF7, Street Fighter has a good amount of content already in the game, so while she is huge in her own right as the Fighting Game First Lady, I can't say I'd be down for Chun-Li. The Tales of Series is 1 that I'm not so familiar with, so it really just depends on what character is chosen. That guy from Arise looks cool enough for me to be pretty interested, and I can't go wrong with Velvet, but I can't say they're anywhere near my most wanted list.

This will probably be the talk of the town until we reach the next reveal especially the 5chn post, so I'll just give out my thoughts on those and leave it at that unless something goes down. The road to CP9 is gonna be a long 1.
If it's any solace, it's possible that some characters were planned in advance, but they started adding more after FP2 was solidified. In other words, there'd be a bit of a mix rather than just a full second chance pass the whole way down.
 
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I will say if we get a Monster Hunter or other Capcom character specifically because of Rise, it more than likely won't be the next fighter. I can't see a reality where Smash DLC and Rise were planned so well that the two would coincide on the same month without hiccup. The only character that lined up that perfectly before was Corrin, and that was only for the North American release. Japan got the game the prior year and other regions had to wait until May. In terms of third party characters, I think the closest was Hero, who released in July while DQ XI released on Switch in September. Even then, the game existed on other consoles at least a year before that depending on region.

I do think Monster Hunter or Capcom in general could be next, but Rise would have very little to do with it. It would just be a happy coincidence.
 

Shroob

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I will say if we get a Monster Hunter or other Capcom character specifically because of Rise, it more than likely won't be the next fighter. I can't see a reality where Smash DLC and Rise were planned so well that the two would coincide on the same month without hiccup. The only character that lined up that perfectly before was Corrin, and that was only for the North American release. Japan got the game the prior year and other regions had to wait until May. In terms of third party characters, I think the closest was Hero, who released in July while DQ XI released on Switch in September. Even then, the game existed on other consoles at least a year before that depending on region.

I do think Monster Hunter or Capcom in general could be next, but Rise would have very little to do with it. It would just be a happy coincidence.
I mean, you say that but Steve came out right in time for Minecon, and Sephiroth for the Game Awards, where FF7R was up for awards and was like a day before a FF anniversary.
 
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TheTuninator

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It's come up pretty recently but Fatmanonice did have Sephiroth apparently floating around for a while even after Hero but was confused and didn't think he was happening. Don't know how much more credible that makes him when he's gotten everything else wrong though.
Anybody who gets anything flat-out wrong about Smash "leaks" even once discredits themselves as any kind of insider. It's pretty clear that he doesn't have any legit info.
 

ZelDan

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It's come up pretty recently but Fatmanonice did have Sephiroth apparently floating around for a while even after Hero but was confused and didn't think he was happening. Don't know how much more credible that makes him when he's gotten everything else wrong though.
Wasn't Sephiroth and that whole "Square 7" list originally from Verge though? I wouldn't really attribute that to Fatman.
 

7NATOR

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It's come up pretty recently but Fatmanonice did have Sephiroth apparently floating around for a while even after Hero but was confused and didn't think he was happening. Don't know how much more credible that makes him when he's gotten everything else wrong though.
Not only Sephiroth, He also apparently had Steve as a name as well, but he was focused on Master Chief
 

dream1ng

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It's come up pretty recently but Fatmanonice did have Sephiroth apparently floating around for a while even after Hero but was confused and didn't think he was happening. Don't know how much more credible that makes him when he's gotten everything else wrong though.
Yeah, he heard Sephiroth floating around but beforehand said he wasn't going to be included, there wasn't going to be a VGA reveal, and Geno was going to get in.

Everyone heard Sephiroth floating around once the Seven Squares were made public. Fatman choosing to disregard that claim puts him in the same boat as literally everyone else.

He's not credible.

What did Vergeben say about xenother? I heard someone earlier here saying Verge and Xeno knew each other.
Ok so I dug around a bit and xenother apparently was a source saying we'd get Erdrick along with Hitagi (the Katalina leaker). He also said we weren't going to get Banjo.

So basically he endorsed a leak everyone was saying already, which was sort of but not completely true, associated with a leaker who had nothing but incorrect info, and was himself incorrect.
 

chocolatejr9

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It's come up pretty recently but Fatmanonice did have Sephiroth apparently floating around for a while even after Hero but was confused and didn't think he was happening. Don't know how much more credible that makes him when he's gotten everything else wrong though.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't he started trying to propogate that Mii Costumes don't deconfirm ever since Geno's came back? I don't want to sound rude, but I think he's having a hard time accepting the loss...
 

RetrogamerMax

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Ok so I dug around a bit and xenother apparently was a source saying we'd get Erdrick along with Hitagi (the Katalina leaker). He also said we weren't going to get Banjo.

So basically he endorsed a leak everyone was saying already, which was sort of but not completely true, associated with a leaker who had nothing but incorrect info, and was himself incorrect.
I thought so. I think xenother was also the guy who heard the rumor awhile back that Square-Enix wanted Cloud to be DLC again and he almost didn't return.
 

dream1ng

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Again, saying you've heard Sephiroth and Steve is literally meaningless, especially when you yourself didn't believe they were coming.
Regardless of if you believed it or didn't, those are two characters that literally everyone had heard floating around thanks to Vergeben and the Square list.

That's like if Ryu Hayabusa gets in and he said he had heard Ryu Hayabusa floating around. Everyone has heard Ryu Hayabusa floating around, but if you then claim that info isn't credible, you don't get credit when it turns out you were wrong. If anything, it's the opposite, because you dismissed its validity earlier. It highlights your lack of credibility.

You guys need to stop being lead around so easily.
 
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I mean, you say that but Steve came out right in time for Minecon, and Sephiroth for the Game Awards, where FF7R was up for awards and was like a day before a FF anniversary.

Hell, Hero came out 2 months before DQ11s on the Switch.
I meant timing game releases from separate companies coinciding with one another. You have a point with Steve and Sephiroth maybe being planned to release alongside events, but even in those cases Sakurai isn't working with fluid information when he's designing characters. Steve's game has been out for a decade and Sephiroth's has been around for two. DQ XI was out on PS4 for two years before it released on the Switch. No version of Rise is out until March.

In this case we're talking about potentially timing basically an entire pass around multiple event dates and the release date for a separate game that may or may not make the same deadline, and in the case of Monster Hunter working with a vision of the character from a game that is a work in progress. All up to a year and a half in advance, not knowing if there would be any hiccups in development on either side.

Maybe I'll be wrong about it, but a lot of people said the same exact stuff about Doom. That one never panned out. I'm just not expecting this one to pan out, either. I do think Monster Hunter has a shot, but I think it's either going to be fairly independent of Rise, or it's going to happen later. The same goes for any Capcom rep. I think it could happen, but I don't think Rise would have an awful lot to do with it.
 

Shroob

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I meant timing game releases from separate companies coinciding with one another. You have a point with Steve and Sephiroth maybe being planned to release alongside events, but even in those cases Sakurai isn't working with fluid information when he's designing characters. Steve's game has been out for a decade and Sephiroth's has been around for two. DQ XI was out on PS4 for two years before it released on the Switch. No version of Rise is out until March.

In this case we're talking about potentially timing basically an entire pass around multiple event dates and the release date for a separate game that may or may not make the same deadline, and in the case of Monster Hunter working with a vision of the character from a game that is a work in progress. All up to a year and a half in advance, not knowing if there would be any hiccups in development on either side.

Maybe I'll be wrong about it, but a lot of people said the same exact stuff about Doom. That one never panned out. I'm just not expecting this one to pan out, either. I do think Monster Hunter has a shot, but I think it's either going to be fairly independent of Rise, or it's going to happen later. The same goes for any Capcom rep. I think it could happen, but I don't think Rise would have an awful lot to do with it.
Oh, my point isn't about a Monster Hunter character, just a Capcom character in General.


With Rise being a timed Switch exclusive, it just makes sense from a business standpoint to get the Mii costumes in in March as basically free publicity.
 

MarioRaccoon

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Curious stuff Imran just dropped about Ultimate, this in reply to a 4chan leak that says the next characters are Tails, Raiden and Crash (the leak its fake):
  • Sephiroth is cheaper than he usually is as a recommendation from SE, but not because of Hero
  • Byleth has a decent bit of the moveset of a character that didn't make it due to negotiations falling through, but Byleth was supposed to be in the main roster and were moved to DLC well before the game came out, they weren't a late replacement. 3 Houses was meant to release before Ultimate (this last thing is correct as we know that originally FE 3H was going to be released at 2018).
  • Min Min was indeed partly because it's easier to get Nintendo characters

btw, its amazing how much Imran knows about ultimate development, its as almost he works inside Bandai-Namco.
 

GoodGrief741

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Personally I'm kind of wary of this latest leak. It could be real, and it lines up with a lot of things we know or suspect about how and when the Pass was made (which is also a red flag because confirmation bias might be at play here). But it also has no strong evidence in its favor, and even if real, it doesn't even claim to be revealing the characters.

I've yet to see anyone draw any conclusions from it beyond "Chun-Li and Lloyd/Yuri/Velvet might be in". Which is fine! But if that's all we're gonna glean from it I don't know why everyone's trying to make timelines and see what unreliable leakers have to say about it. It's just going to go around in circles because as a leak it's tautological; anything that we determine from now on can't really disprove it.
 

Shroob

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Curious stuff Imran just dropped about Ultimate, this in reply to a 4chan leak that says the next characters are Tails, Raiden and Crash (the leak its fake):
  • Sephiroth is cheaper than he usually is as a recommendation from SE, but not because of Hero
  • Byleth has a decent bit of the moveset of a character that didn't make it due to negotiations falling through, but Byleth was supposed to be in the main roster and were moved to DLC well before the game came out, they weren't a late replacement. 3 Houses was meant to release before Ultimate (this last thing is correct as we know that originally FE 3H was going to be released at 2018).
  • Min Min was indeed partly because it's easier to get Nintendo characters

btw, its amazing how much Imran knows about ultimate development, its as almost he works inside Bandai-Namco.
...so wait does this just confirm the theory that Byleth really did eat Monster Hunter for their moveset?
 

SpecterFlower

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Curious stuff Imran just dropped about Ultimate, this in reply to a 4chan leak that says the next characters are Tails, Raiden and Crash (the leak its fake):
  • Sephiroth is cheaper than he usually is as a recommendation from SE, but not because of Hero
  • Byleth has a decent bit of the moveset of a character that didn't make it due to negotiations falling through, but Byleth was supposed to be in the main roster and were moved to DLC well before the game came out, they weren't a late replacement. 3 Houses was meant to release before Ultimate (this last thing is correct as we know that originally FE 3H was going to be released at 2018).
  • Min Min was indeed partly because it's easier to get Nintendo characters

btw, its amazing how much Imran knows about ultimate development, its as almost he works inside Bandai-Namco.
im guessing that may have been monster hunter as they would have had a similar multi weapon approach.
 

YeppersPeppers

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Curious stuff Imran just dropped about Ultimate, this in reply to a 4chan leak that says the next characters are Tails, Raiden and Crash (the leak its fake):
  • Sephiroth is cheaper than he usually is as a recommendation from SE, but not because of Hero
  • Byleth has a decent bit of the moveset of a character that didn't make it due to negotiations falling through, but Byleth was supposed to be in the main roster and were moved to DLC well before the game came out, they weren't a late replacement. 3 Houses was meant to release before Ultimate (this last thing is correct as we know that originally FE 3H was going to be released at 2018).
  • Min Min was indeed partly because it's easier to get Nintendo characters

btw, its amazing how much Imran knows about ultimate development, its as almost he works inside Bandai-Namco.
I find his follow-up post here interesting as well, as it implies that the MH team are still do not like the idea of the Hunter being a character in crossovers:


...if it's true, of course.
 
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