Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[7NATOR]

So I have a question

Regarding the Dark Pit Glitch and the Projectile glitch


IF, and Only IF, Both Glitches were pointing towards specfic DLC Characters, do you think it's only 1 DLC Character it's pointing towards, or Mulltiple

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

Quick question. Do we know if Pyra and Mythra have a known character used as the base for them? such as Link for the Hero and Zero Suit for Bayonetta.

My personal feeling about it is that they sort of pulled a Brawl Wolf in the sense that they have a lot of moves taken from different places. I think Link was a possible source for up-tilt and down-tilt, and Joker for forward-tilt (his forward-smash) and down-air. Pyra's forward-air gives me swordy back-air vibes, but if it's based on one I wouldn't be able to tell specifically. If I had to guess, I'd say her forward-smash could be derivative of Roy's neutral-B. Her up-air feels really similar to Sephiroth's, so I could see them sharing a bit of DNA on that one move as they were partially developed at the same time.

This is all just me speculating, though. The Joker f-smash to Pyra f-tilt is the one I'm most confident on.

Pyra's hitboxes and frame data
Joker's hitboxes and frame data

I would have put the specific gifs here, but I couldn't figure out how.

 

[epicmartin7]

So... I was bored and decided to graph the percentage of platforming characters that exist on the roster, and the evolution of that percentage. And what I got was kind of neat.

Statistically, this says Challenger Pack 11 might be the next fighter from a Platformer. Which would be neat to end Vol. 2 (and potentially Smash Ultimate) on.

Of course, this is just for fun and not meant to be taken seriously, but it does provide for interesting discussion.

If you are interested, here's the graph source: https://www.desmos.com/calculator/as4k7bspg2

 

[Otoad64]

So... I was bored and decided to graph the percentage of platforming characters that exist on the roster, and the evolution of that percentage. And what I got was kind of neat.

Statistically, this says Challenger Pack 11 might be the next fighter from a Platformer. Which would be neat to end Vol. 2 (and potentially Smash Ultimate) on.

Of course, this is just for fun and not meant to be taken seriously, but it does provide for interesting discussion.

If you are interested, here's the graph source: https://www.desmos.com/calculator/as4k7bspg2

let's see, who's from a platformer?

Spyro, Rayman, Captain Toad, Eggman, Crash, Bandana Dee

I'm liking these options

 

[SharkLord]

Realized I haven't done a writeup in a while. Here's one of the ol' RTC copypastes.

Celeste is an indie 2D platformer released in 2017 to critical acclaim. It features simple controls and tight, challenging platforming sublevels, which collectively make up a larger Chapter. There are two main abilities: The standard jump, and an eight-way dash in the inputted direction. Madeline can also cling to ledges and climb up structures. That's about it for Maddy's moves; Most of the depth of the game comes from mastering those simple techniques and applying them to various hazards and power-ups.

Story-wise, the game details Madeline's attempt to climb the titular Celeste Mountain, facing the mountain's various natural obstacles. However, she must also content with her own personal issues; She suffers from depression and anxiety, which the mountain takes and gives form, creating a shadowy doppelganger named Badeline (Though only outside the game; Madeline's name can be customized, so her dark side's just called "Part of You" in-game).

Due to the simplicity of Celeste's controls, it's a bit tricky to make a straight translation of Celeste's mechanics. However, I believe we can spin something out of the various hazards and power-ups, of which there's a lot of. In addition, there's also Badeline to take into account; The two make peace with each other and team up, and evidenced by them teaming up as guest fighters in Towerfall, the devs aren't afraid of spoiling that. Basically, we can put Celeste itself in Smash and/or give Madeline a Stand.

Yeah, that was a quick one. Celeste is short and simple, so there isn't as much lore/history to dump here. Anyways, here's the music.

Spoiler: Music

Also a remix to go with the official compositions

And while we're at it, here's a taste of what the gameplay is like, plus an extra dash of c o m e d y

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Realized I haven't done a writeup in a while. Here's one of the ol' RTC copypastes.

Celeste is an indie 2D platformer released in 2017 to critical acclaim. It features simple controls and tight, challenging platforming sublevels, which collectively make up a larger Chapter. There are two main abilities: The standard jump, and an eight-way dash in the inputted direction. Madeline can also cling to ledges and climb up structures. That's about it for Maddy's moves; Most of the depth of the game comes from mastering those simple techniques and applying them to various hazards and power-ups.

Story-wise, the game details Madeline's attempt to climb the titular Celeste Mountain, facing the mountain's various natural obstacles. However, she must also content with her own personal issues; She suffers from depression and anxiety, which the mountain takes and gives form, creating a shadowy doppelganger named Badeline (Though only outside the game; Madeline's name can be customized, so her dark side's just called "Part of You" in-game).

Due to the simplicity of Celeste's controls, it's a bit tricky to make a straight translation of Celeste's mechanics. However, I believe we can spin something out of the various hazards and power-ups, of which there's a lot of. In addition, there's also Badeline to take into account; The two make peace with each other and team up, and evidenced by them teaming up as guest fighters in Towerfall, the devs aren't afraid of spoiling that. Basically, we can put Celeste itself in Smash and/or give Madeline a Stand.

Yeah, that was a quick one. Celeste is short and simple, so there isn't as much lore/history to dump here. Anyways, here's the music.

Spoiler: Music

Also a remix to go with the official compositions

And while we're at it, here's a taste of what the gameplay is like, plus an extra dash of c o m e d y

Yeah, it’s a shame Madeline is unlikely even as a Mii imo. Celeste is a marvelous game. Honestly I would say it is objectively the best game that came out in 2018, even if I like Spyro Reignited and Ultimate more. A tight well designed 3D platformer that handles anxiety and mental health in such a powerful way is something to experience. The music and the experience of Celeste was something I am glad I had, and it is truly a gem that deserves all the love it has gotten.

If SharkLords write up did not convince you, get Celeste when it’s on sale. It’s one of the greats.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

Not to pull discussion back into something we were done with, but I've been doing a little more looking at Pyra's animations to see if I could spot things, and it was pretty neat.

Under closer inspection, I'm finding that there are some interesting tweaks to all of Pyra's moves that have similarities to other fighters. In several moves, her footwork is mirrored from that of the move she seems to be copying, but otherwise the animation is almost the same. For instance, her f-smash is remarkably similar to Roy's neutral-B, same bounce on impact and everything, but her legs are on the other side of the swing. She also twists her body more in some moves. Sometimes the twist is more in the wind-up and sometimes it's more in end of the swing.

I'm not quite as sold on her up-tilt being pulled from Link. It's the closest thing hitbox-wise, but the animation isn't all that close. It's possible that it's heavily modified, but Pyra's movement is far less exaggerated. If anything, it might actually have been pulled from Chrom. It's hard to tell.

The wildest thing I found is that her rapid jab finisher is almost 1-to-1 with Samus' full-power charge shot, of all things.

Oh, and her dash-grab out of context makes it look like she's bowling.

 

[Shroob]

So... I was bored and decided to graph the percentage of platforming characters that exist on the roster, and the evolution of that percentage. And what I got was kind of neat.

Statistically, this says Challenger Pack 11 might be the next fighter from a Platformer. Which would be neat to end Vol. 2 (and potentially Smash Ultimate) on.

Of course, this is just for fun and not meant to be taken seriously, but it does provide for interesting discussion.

If you are interested, here's the graph source: https://www.desmos.com/calculator/as4k7bspg2

Now what's your math wizardry in regards to CP10, Mathematician Merlin?

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Oh, and her dash-grab out of context makes it look like she's bowling.

Finally, someone to challenge the invisible bowling champion!

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Can we all agree that if Lara Croft were to be playable, she’d be based off her classic design with the reboot design probably being an alternate costume?

 

[Mamboo07]

I already said this, Lara is gonna be in Fortnite.

Fortnite Season 6 will feature Lara Croft in the Battle Pass, confirm new leaks

Fortnite Season 6 is finally here. The downtime has already begun, and the update will start rolling out shortly.

www.sportskeeda.com

 

[Wunderwaft]

I just want Lloyd man.

Don't worry bro I got you

I know you're probably tired from these jokes but I just couldn't resist lol
They're both named Lloyd, they're both dual wielders, and the series names for these two is incredibly similair to each other: Trails-Tales.

 

[SpecterFlower]

I already said this, Lara is gonna be in Fortnite.

Fortnite Season 6 will feature Lara Croft in the Battle Pass, confirm new leaks

Fortnite Season 6 is finally here. The downtime has already begun, and the update will start rolling out shortly.

www.sportskeeda.com

well so are many other characters, im pretty sure it's just ryu who's both in smash and in fortnite though.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

So I have a question

Regarding the Dark Pit Glitch and the Projectile glitch


IF, and Only IF, Both Glitches were pointing towards specfic DLC Characters, do you think it's only 1 DLC Character it's pointing towards, or Mulltiple

At this rate probably only one

betting on either Reimu or, if Square were to double dip this pass, Neku cause Neku can dash through projectiles

 

[Garteam]

I already said this, Lara is gonna be in Fortnite.

Fortnite Season 6 will feature Lara Croft in the Battle Pass, confirm new leaks

Fortnite Season 6 is finally here. The downtime has already begun, and the update will start rolling out shortly.

www.sportskeeda.com

It'll be weird to say "yes, Lara Croft and Peter Griffin can officially fight in a product with official licensing from both Disney and Square Enix".

 

[True Blue Warrior]

If Krystal were playable, would her Adventures design have been altered similar to Pyra and Mythra?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

If Krystal were playable, would her Adventures design have been altered similar to Pyra and Mythra?

Probably not given she's still in that outfit as an assist.

 

[SpectreJordan]

It'll be weird to say "yes, Lara Croft and Peter Griffin can officially fight in a product with official licensing from both Disney and Square Enix".

Sadly not Peter.... yet.

Can we all agree that if Lara Croft were to be playable, she’d be based off her classic design with the reboot design probably being an alternate costume?

It seems like she’ll be wearing something similar to the classic in the next game, so I’d say that would happen.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

It'll be weird to say "yes, Lara Croft and Peter Griffin can officially fight in a product with official licensing from both Disney and Square Enix".

"Hey Lois, I'm in Fortnite"

 

[RoboFist]

If Krystal were playable, would her Adventures design have been altered similar to Pyra and Mythra?

I no joke had a dream last night that Krystal was the next DLC and my only thought was "Oh, Isaac/Shadow/Waluigi fans are gonna be so pissed."

Then I woke up, realized that Smash speculation was making its way into my subconscious at night, and decided that I needed a break from the scene for a few weeks haha.

 

[Firox]

Probably not given she's still in that outfit as an assist.

Apparently, bikini tops and loin cloths don't disqualify furries. Looks like we now know CERO's fetish.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Apparently, bikini tops and loin cloths don't disqualify furries. Looks like we now know CERO's fetish.

I mean there is also Phosphora but then again she'd probably be more around like Zero Suit Samus' last two alts.

 

[SNEKeater]

Realized I haven't done a writeup in a while. Here's one of the ol' RTC copypastes.

Celeste is an indie 2D platformer released in 2017 to critical acclaim. It features simple controls and tight, challenging platforming sublevels, which collectively make up a larger Chapter. There are two main abilities: The standard jump, and an eight-way dash in the inputted direction. Madeline can also cling to ledges and climb up structures. That's about it for Maddy's moves; Most of the depth of the game comes from mastering those simple techniques and applying them to various hazards and power-ups.

Story-wise, the game details Madeline's attempt to climb the titular Celeste Mountain, facing the mountain's various natural obstacles. However, she must also content with her own personal issues; She suffers from depression and anxiety, which the mountain takes and gives form, creating a shadowy doppelganger named Badeline (Though only outside the game; Madeline's name can be customized, so her dark side's just called "Part of You" in-game).

Due to the simplicity of Celeste's controls, it's a bit tricky to make a straight translation of Celeste's mechanics. However, I believe we can spin something out of the various hazards and power-ups, of which there's a lot of. In addition, there's also Badeline to take into account; The two make peace with each other and team up, and evidenced by them teaming up as guest fighters in Towerfall, the devs aren't afraid of spoiling that. Basically, we can put Celeste itself in Smash and/or give Madeline a Stand.

Yeah, that was a quick one. Celeste is short and simple, so there isn't as much lore/history to dump here. Anyways, here's the music.

Spoiler: Music

Also a remix to go with the official compositions

And while we're at it, here's a taste of what the gameplay is like, plus an extra dash of c o m e d y

Celeste is one of the best indie games of this generation. Such a great experience.
Fantastic soundtrack, lovable characters, relatable story, engaging gameplay, great variety of levels...

And while the story might be simple, I'd say it has quite a depth. In a sense, it's that kind of story where you can feel identified with the main character, even if you and the MC have completely different struggles.

Though for Smash, I'd only expect spirits or a Mii Costume for Madeline. That would be cool.

 

[Wunderwaft]

It'll be weird to say "yes, Lara Croft and Peter Griffin can officially fight in a product with official licensing from both Disney and Square Enix".

I'm legit waiting for the day when Peter and Sora both join Fortnite. When the day finally arrives then we would know that the time of judgement has arrived.

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

Y'all are talking about Family Guy in Fortnite... I'm waiting until they show up in Kingdom Hearts haha

BOSS BATTLE WITH ERNIE THE CHICKEN!

Just have a whole "Quahog Kingdom" with Sora, Goofy and Donald joining Peter Griffin in escapades around Quahog complete with cutaway gags and such, and EVENTUALLY Ernie the Giant Chicken just randomly shows up and he's the extremely long and hard boss battle of the game, replacing the Sephiroth battles of old, except this time the fight goes from place to place, causing terrible destruction as it goes. Chicken doesn't even die upon being beaten, Sora et al walk away, and then it just shows his eye open or something.

And at some point, Cleveland's bathtub falls on a Heartless or Organization XIII member or whatever. They're all standing there being some edgy anime villain in a reaper hood or whatever and then "No no no no no no NO!" and Cleveland in a bathtub just drops on em. "I really gotta stop taking baths during Organization XIII meetings"

 

[Firox]

Y'all are talking about Family Guy in Fortnite... I'm waiting until they show up in Kingdom Hearts haha

BOSS BATTLE WITH ERNIE THE CHICKEN!
View attachment 307472


Just have a whole "Quahog Kingdom" with Sora, Goofy and Donald joining Peter Griffin in escapades around Quahog complete with cutaway gags and such, and EVENTUALLY Ernie the Giant Chicken just randomly shows up and he's the extremely long and hard boss battle of the game, replacing the Sephiroth battles of old, except this time the fight goes from place to place, causing terrible destruction as it goes. Chicken doesn't even die upon being beaten, Sora et al walk away, and then it just shows his eye open or something.

And at some point, Cleveland's bathtub falls on a Heartless or Organization XIII member or whatever. They're all standing there being some edgy anime villain in a reaper hood or whatever and then "No no no no no no NO!" and Cleveland in a bathtub just drops on em. "I really gotta stop taking baths during Organization XIII meetings"

Xemnas: "I'd like to introduce the newest member of the Organization....his darkness is truly a wonder to behold..."

(Adam West lowers his reaper hood): This will teach that damn mouse to stop stealing my water. Nobody messes with ADAM WE!

 

[SpectreJordan]

Fortnite’s starting to get to Smash levels of crazy video game crossovers. Kratos, Master Chief, Ryu, Chun-Li & Lara Croft (very briefly) all in the same trailer! Not to mention how awesome it is to see Ripley & Sarah Connor fight Xenomorphs/Terminators together.

This trailer makes me think even more that Sony isn’t opposed to crazy crossovers, even with their competitor’s character. The ball might be in Nintendo’s court when it comes to a Sony character in Smash.

Also, I’d say it’s safe to say that Jonesy is a real character now & not just a default skin. Guess that argument can’t be used against him in Smash anymore.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Fortnite’s starting to get to Smash levels of crazy video game crossovers. Kratos, Master Chief, Ryu, Chun-Li & Lara Croft (very briefly) all in the same trailer! Not to mention how awesome it is to see Ripley & Sarah Connor fight Xenomorphs/Terminators together.

This trailer makes me think even more that Sony isn’t opposed to crazy crossovers, even with their competitor’s character. The ball might be in Nintendo’s court when it comes to a Sony character in Smash.

Also, I’d say it’s safe to say that Jonesy is a real character now & not just a default skin. Guess that argument can’t be used against him in Smash anymore.

So I guess the real question is, would Nintendo be willing to approach Sony? I remember someone said at least one of them still held a grudge against the other, but I can't remember which.

I just hope that if they DO decide to collab, it's with a character who would actually be interesting in Smash. Someone like Ratchet & Clank, Sly Cooper, or Kat from Gravity Rush. Just... no overly-realistic characters, okay? I know those are what Sony is known for these days, but... no.

 

[osby]

Also, I’d say it’s safe to say that Jonesy is a real character now & not just a default skin. Guess that argument can’t be used against him in Smash anymore.

Did that argument have any merit in the first place when we got Steve?

 

[SharkLord]

Did that argument have any merit in the first place when we got Steve?

One could argue it also goes for the Inklings and Villagers. I think Nintendo values the games represented over the characters themselves, at least when it comes to DLC. That's how Sakurai got that extra wiggle room with the ARMS and XC2 fighters. Basically, Nintendo goes for games they're interested in, defined character or no.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I was never saying that Jonesy wasn't a real character.

I however still think Steve makes him redundant for being a gatherer/builder loved by Gen Z.

 

[Ornl]

To thank or strengthen alliances ?
Nintendo is lagging behind technologically. So I think Nintendo's current strategy is to seek out serious allies to secure its future. I think the choice of third-party DLCs is a way to materialize new alliances or to intensify existing alliances. Smash is no longer a factory to distribute gifts to third-party companies. Friendly companies wouldn't be right to ask for new fighters in Smash, and various negotiations with Nintendo could be done differently. Smash didn't allow Level-5 and Marvelous to thrive, because Nintendo must first capitalize on its interests.

In the two Fighter Passes, Capcom, Level-5, Marvelous, Namco, Ubisoft, Sonic Team... still don't have Figters. Instead, Atlus could offer a sustainable market, Square Enix is a safe bet, Microsoft and Nintendo could together destabilize Sony, and SNK has a link with Tencent. The company to have received the most DLCs is Square Enix, and this is consistent when looking at sales and trends. Below, examples of trends according to Famitsu readers.

Top by Famitsu readers
/ number of times the companies appear
• Top 10 by consoles, 2016*
Nintendo 63 · Square Enix 42 · Sega 29 · Capcom 19 · Bandai Namco 13 · Konami 11 · Atlus 10 · Microsoft 7 · Sony 7 · Nihon Falcom 4 · Koei Tecmo 3
• Top 100 of all time, 2017*
Sega 20% · Square Enix 17% · Konami 12% · Nintendo 11% · Atlus 7% · Spike Chunsoft 5% · Bandai Namco 4% · Capcom 4% · Sony 3% · Koei Tecmo 2%
• Various top 20 by genres (Action-Adventure° + Action° + Fighting ° + RPG° + Shooters° + Simulation°), 2017
Square Enix 19 · Capcom 17 · Nintendo 17 · Sega 13 · Sony 7 · Konami 6 · Bandai Namco 5 · Arc System Works 3 · Atlus 3 · Koei Tecmo 3 · SNK 2
• Top 20 of all time by non-japanese readers, 2017*
Square Enix 4 · Atlus 3 · Capcom 3 · Konami 3 · Nintendo 3 · Bandai Namco 2 · Koei Tecmo 1 · Sega 1
• Top 20 of Heisei Era, 2019*
Square Enix 10 · Nintendo 7 · Capcom 2 · Konami 2

But Banjo and Terry could also be thanks you and, yes, another characters of any company could be a thank you too.

At this point, do you think a third-party DLC could be anything other than a "thank you" or a "strengthening of alliance"?

 

[Evil Trapezium]

I really hope Nintendo is cool and does not put fortnite guy into smash. That is all.

 

[Bobthealligator]

IF, and Only IF, Both Glitches were pointing towards specfic DLC Characters, do you think it's only 1 DLC Character it's pointing towards, or Mulltiple

They're not, if this was the cause of the glitches then the devs would know what was going to bug out. They'd canvas the base characters before each patch to make sure they don't give anything away. So no, all you really need to do is think about it to know that there is no correlation between glitches and the next DLC character.
I'm curious, has anyone who actually believes this dumb theory ever tried programming before. Often bugs are random, you can't figure out how you've caused something to go wrong, so sometimes you have to brute force it in order to fix it. These glitches are more likely the fault of the balancing team rather that the new character team.

 

[SharkLord]

To thank or strengthen alliances ?
Nintendo is lagging behind technologically. So I think Nintendo's current strategy is to seek out serious allies to secure its future. I think the choice of third-party DLCs is a way to materialize new alliances or to intensify existing alliances. Smash is no longer a factory to distribute gifts to third-party companies. Friendly companies wouldn't be right to ask for new fighters in Smash, and various negotiations with Nintendo could be done differently. Smash didn't allow Level-5 and Marvelous to thrive, because Nintendo must first capitalize on its interests.

In the two Fighter Passes, Capcom, Level-5, Marvelous, Namco, Ubisoft, Sonic Team... still don't have Figters. Instead, Atlus could offer a sustainable market, Square Enix is a safe bet, Microsoft and Nintendo could together destabilize Sony, and SNK has a link with Tencent. The company to have received the most DLCs is Square Enix, and this is consistent when looking at sales and trends. Below, examples of trends according to Famitsu readers.
But Banjo and Terry could also be thanks you and, yes, another characters of any company could be a thank you too.

At this point, do you think a third-party DLC could be anything other than a "thank you" or a "strengthening of alliance"?

I'd like to point out that Microsoft was mainly for the sheer size of Minecraft, with BK being a bonus to please the fans. Terry was likely because of SNK themselves rather than Tencent, as they have a lot of legacy behind them, are a cheaper option, and supported the Switch early in it's lifecycle.

As for the final question, I'd say no, because every Smash character would strengthen ties to Nintendo. They got to negotiate with each other and get their character in one of the biggest hype-makers of gaming. How can that not strengthen an alliance?

 

[Guynamednelson]

I really hope Nintendo is cool and does not put fortnite guy into smash. That is all.

But guys! Nintendo totally isn't a billion dollar corporation and hasn't made a billion dollars off Smash already! They NEEEEEED that Fortnite money in order to not go bankrupt!

 

[osby]

But guys! Nintendo totally isn't a billion dollar corporation and hasn't made a billion dollars off Smash already! They NEEEEEED that Fortnite money in order to not go bankrupt!

That strawman suffered enough, it's time to let it go.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

That strawman suffered enough, it's time to let it go.

Can’t hold me back anymore.

 

[Guynamednelson]

That strawman suffered enough, it's time to let it go.

People won't let go of the idea that they're choosing characters for reasons other than "we need a bajillion dollars", I won't let go of my strawman.

 

[SharkLord]

But guys! Nintendo totally isn't a billion dollar corporation and hasn't made a billion dollars off Smash already! They NEEEEEED that Fortnite money in order to not go bankrupt!

If we're going by that logic we might as well not have have a second pass at all. Heck, given how much SSBU would've sold on it's own with the hype leading up to it, we could just not have any DLC period. After all, Nintendo's a billion-dollar corporation and wouldn't need the DLC sales, right?