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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

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rexfan53

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Yeah, Min Min was a Yabuki request, so that's up in the air. As for Pyra and Mythra over Rex, we'll just have to wait for the presentation to hear about that one.
My personal theory is that rex was just too complicated to add alongside pyra and mythra since they have to figure out how to switch between rex and pyra and pyra and mythra. Xc2 battle mechanics dont fit smash really lol. I feel like the options were to add rex solo or add pyra and Mythra or add lora and jin. Rex solo has like no moveset potential which narrows it down to pyra and Mythra or jin and lora. Jin and lora are more accurate to the game and would work easily but a lotttt less popular than pyra and Mythra
 

SharkLord

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If MH team sincerely didn't want the hunters as characters in Smash (which isn't something I really believe, but we can ignore that) then surely Capcom would just skip over Monster Hunter entirely and go for one of their many other popular characters. Assuming Nintendo wanted MH specifically, to promote the release of Rise, then surely it still wouldn't be a Palico because as far as I've seen Palicos are absent from the new game.

Edit: Nvm, after some quick googling it appears they will appear in Rise. They still seem like a silly inclusion though.
Rise does have Palicos, actually. They're the support pet, while the Palamutes are for transportation and offense.
 

NonSpecificGuy

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Mh Team wouldn't want the hunters playable. If that were to happen, capcom definitely forced it lol. They have stated like a few times they didnt even want the hunter to be in mvc at all and they don't like them in spin offs. That explains why rathalos is base game and not the hunter. I bet you the mh team said no
I am curious where this was said because they were in MvC. Even if they didn’t “want” a Monster Hunter in Smash, which seems incredibly unlikely at the very minimum, they wouldn’t be the ones making the decisions it would be Capcom. Sakurai would walk up to the heads of Capcom and say “we want Monster Hunter” and you know what? We’d probably get Monster Hunter.

Aside from that I’ve never seen the actual statement made that said “we don’t want the hunters to crossover”
 

Megadoomer

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I am curious where this was said because they were in MvC. Even if they didn’t “want” a Monster Hunter in Smash, which seems incredibly unlikely at the very minimum, they wouldn’t be the ones making the decisions it would be Capcom. Sakurai would walk up to the heads of Capcom and say “we want Monster Hunter” and you know what? We’d probably get Monster Hunter.

Aside from that I’ve never seen the actual statement made that said “we don’t want the hunters to crossover”
Here's the source, though since it's referring to Marvel vs. Capcom 3's development, it's probably outdated. (I don't know if the Monster Hunter series has changed producers since then) I'm not sure what caused things to change between Marvel vs. Capcom 3 and Marvel vs. Capcom Infinite.

EDIT: :ultgreninja:'d
 
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rexfan53

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I am curious where this was said because they were in MvC. Even if they didn’t “want” a Monster Hunter in Smash, which seems incredibly unlikely at the very minimum, they wouldn’t be the ones making the decisions it would be Capcom. Sakurai would walk up to the heads of Capcom and say “we want Monster Hunter” and you know what? We’d probably get Monster Hunter.

Aside from that I’ve never seen the actual statement made that said “we don’t want the hunters to crossover”
heads of capcom would still have to ask mh team. Isn't that also what was rumored to have happened with YKW where the director said no to smash and it never happened. Also for where they said this https://www.siliconera.com/actually...-didnt-want-the-hunter-in-marvel-vs-capcom-3/
this was a long time ago, i cannot find the most recent one, but it's pretty obvious based on all mh crossovers that they still have these beliefs, only including weapons, monsters, armor(like in smash) or felynes/palicos(like the sanrio, taiko, and capcom games) Also most crossovers within monster hunter are for palicos
 

rexfan53

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The interview about Hunter in crossover was about Marvel vs Capcom 3 (10 years ago) Source. The Hunter is in Marvel vs Capcom infinite today, so they obviously changed their mind.
Lol they literally just made up a monster hunter oc for MVCI so I don't really count it since that solves mh teams problem of the generic hunter not being iconic enough which would be the one they would add to smash
 

CapitaineCrash

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Lol they literally just made up a monster hunter oc for MVCI so I don't really count it since that solves mh teams problem of the generic hunter not being iconic enough which would be the one they would add to smash
How is it a OC? It's literally a generic hunter with Rathalos armor.
 

SharkLord

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How is it a OC? It's literally a generic hunter with Rathalos armor.
Technically speaking, it's an OC because it's a defined character based on the standard Hunter template. Still, it's more or less a representative of the generic Hunters anyways, and would be counted as an appearance for the Hunters as a whole.
 

SpecterFlower

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Mh rep would probably be palico tho since that's the series mascot and the most popular character. Not to mention the comments from the mh team on the generic human hunter in mvci. Palico also has a less complex moveset. If they can add pyra and mythra without rex, why not add the palico without the hunter? Also i forgot about the various nintendo themed costumes palicos have worn in the past thru collabs
Dragon Quest Rep would likely be the Slime tho since that's the series mascot and most popular character, not too mention the DQ team doesn't want the heroes fighting together. slime would also have a much more interesting moveset, if they can add Pikachu without red why not add Slime without Erdrick?
 

SharkLord

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Wouldn't that just mean it's a more fleshed out version of the character?
Sorta? The Hunters are a collective group of people rather than a singular character. From what I can gather, the MVCI Hunter specifically was made up for the game, to act as a representative of the Hunters in general. I'd count it as a liberty taken to adapt the character to the setting, because technically speaking they're actually a group of characters, plural.
 

rexfan53

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How is it a OC? It's literally a generic hunter with Rathalos armor.
it's a generic hunter with rathalos armor that they gave a backstory/lore and a personality to. The hunter that would get into smash is not this one at all and would line up with what mh team said about the hunter.

Maybe the hunter has lore ****s and a canon name in rise but it's not out yet

mh stories protagonists are also not out of the question
 
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DevaAshera

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Strictly speaking we don't have a particular need for any character. I'm a Sonic hater myself, but it is kind of strange that arguably the most famous 3rd party party franchise we have in the game only has one character.
It is, but that doesn't mean we're lacking for Sonic content. Yes, Shadow should probably have been at least an Echo Fighter, and it is the most famous 3rd Party, but maybe Sega denied them, who knows, they denied Sonic at first.
Modern Kirby doesn’t really have much music at all. I think what it does have is also just the original music rather than remixes.

edit: ok I checked to make sure and I guess it does have some good tracks, but still no remixes and is lacking in comparison to classic Kirby.
It isn't too surprising considering Sakurai probably has a subconscious bias for Classic Kirbo.
This argument literally means nothing, we have:ultminmin:ultpyra: as DLC and it’s a stretch to say that they are bigger than Bandana Dee.
In terms of their series, Min Min & Pyra/Mythra are bigger to ARMS & Xenoblade Chronicles than Bandanna Dee is to Kirby. They are also the first & second/third reps for their series while Bandanna Dee would be the 4th for his.
They also bring new representation to Smash, representing ARMS and Xenoblade Chronicles 2, while Kirby, himself, adequately represents every single game in his series, being the star & main character of every single one, King Dedede & Meta Knight are also good reps for most of the games.

If we went off of bigger overall out of all possible games, the roster would be overfilled by Mario & Pokémon reps.
 

Idon

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it's a generic hunter with rathalos armor that they gave a backstory/lore and a personality to. The hunter that would get into smash is not this one at all and would line up with what mh team said about the hunter
so you're using this kind of logic to say they'll go with a palico... they gave a backstory/lore and a personality to?
 

rexfan53

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It is, but that doesn't mean we're lacking for Sonic content. Yes, Shadow should probably have been at least an Echo Fighter, and it is the most famous 3rd Party, but maybe Sega denied them, who knows, they denied Sonic at first.

It isn't too surprising considering Sakurai probably has a subconscious bias for Classic Kirbo.

In terms of their series, Min Min & Pyra/Mythra are bigger to ARMS & Xenoblade Chronicles than Bandanna Dee is to Kirby. They are also the first & second/third reps for their series while Bandanna Dee would be the 4th for his.
They also bring new representation to Smash, representing ARMS and Xenoblade Chronicles 2, while Kirby, himself, adequately represents every single game in his series, being the star & main character of every single one, King Dedede & Meta Knight are also good reps for most of the games.

If we went off of bigger overall out of all possible games, the roster would be overfilled by Mario & Pokémon reps.
fe3h outsold star allies in like a year anyways
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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Sorta? The Hunters are a collective group of people rather than a singular character. From what I can gather, the MVCI Hunter specifically was made up for the game, to act as a representative of the Hunters in general. I'd count it as a liberty taken to adapt the character to the setting, because technically speaking they're actually a group of characters, plural.
Eh, I don't think that's a liberty at all considering they are emulating what's already there. None of the mentalities are made up, and even the personality lines up with what you've already seen from them. They just have dialogue now.

EDIT: And the backstory is literally just that hunters and monsters exist in Wakanda now due to collided worlds. It gives the Monster Hunter a reason for being there, but their status in the world sounds pretty unchanged as well.
 
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SharkLord

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Eh, I don't think that's a liberty at all considering they are emulating what's already there. None of the mentalities are made up, and even the personality lines up with what you've already seen from them. They just have dialogue now.
Fair enough. Admittedly, I'm not very knowledgeable on how these characters and collectives and whatnot all work, so I'll just go with that
 

Cutie Gwen

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Aight. Trailer idea for Sol. Have it start out just like his dialogue against Testament as seen here. Couldn't find a video with just that cutscene, but Sol's are first anyway

The dialogue gets changed to "This tournament was held to get in Smash", then the match starts to which Sol IKs Testament and grabs a Smash invitation that fell out of Testament's pocket when he got launched by using his winpose, cut to a CG closeup, Sol Badguy Gets Into Gear! After a segment of gameplay, the Star Fox trio and Samus appear and knock his ass out, sent flying into a building while Sol's headband is seen falling into the foreground next to the now dropped invitation. One of the bounty hunters goes to pick it up before noticing red lightning appearing from where they knocked Sol, the dust starts to fade but only Sol's shadow is visible, with red lightning sparks emerging from him faster and faster until he shouts to the sky, "DRAGON INSTALL!"
Sol-elec.gif


Cut back to gameplay, Sol goes all unga bunga on everything in his DI state, knocking out the Star Fox Trio before using his final smash on Samus, after destroying her, he picks up the headband and invitation, smirks to the screen and walks away.
 

rexfan53

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so you're using this kind of logic to say they'll go with a palico... they gave a backstory/lore and a personality to?
no. They'd just use a palico in general since it's better representation. they don't need to give them personality. Palico's also won't get outdated by the next mh game entry like hunters would.

But this is all as of now. With the MHR hunter having an actual unique design and being presented differently in the marketing of the game+the unique abilities they have, it could end up happening. this could be a good turning point to get the hunter secured as a gaming icon. For now tho im gonna stick with palicos or the stories protags.
 

JCKirbs

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I don't think either are particularly in need for. We have plenty of Sonic Spirits and enough music, Modern Kirby has plenty of Spirits & Music as well as the series itself having a lot of stages, which if Sakurai had wanted a modern Kirby stage, he'd have put one in by now, he probably just prefers using his characters and games that he is more familiar with.
Bandanna Waddle Dee just doesn't feel 'big' enough for DLC, sorry to say, he is more of a Base Game pick.

Note: I know Piranha Plant is DLC, but given it was a timed free character and has a Palutena's guidance, it may have been intended for base game or as a character to give as a bonus since few would feel it was worth paying for or getting much hype, plus it didnt come with spirits, music, or a stage further separating it from other DLC fighters.
I would argue that the ratio between Classic and Modern Kirby content, while not entirely abysmal, is still irritably one-sided; which is especially strange for a thriving franchise like the Kirby series. Assuming that the core Modern Era of the Kirby franchise started in 2011 with Kirby's Return to Dream Land, I could only pinpoint about 9 Modern Kirby spirits in total (disregarding important characters like Taranza, Star Dream, or Hyness). On the flipside, I believe that the music selection has at least improved even if there are still some strange omissions like "Galacta Knight's Theme" and "Masked Dedede's Theme"; however, it's a little unfortunate that there still isn't one remixed Modern Kirby track to be found within the entire selection.

When it does come to more noticeable elements of representation like Stages and Characters, I do want to cut Sakurai some slack.
Back in Smash 4, he did consider putting in a Kirby's Epic Yarn stage, although I would assume that the newness of Yoshi's Woolly World inclined him to develop a yarn-themed stage with that game in mind instead (not to mention that it saved the Yoshi series from having 0 new stages in Sm4sh).
Now in Ultimate, there wasn't a single 1st Party franchise (aside from Mario and Zelda) that got a brand-new stage in the base game due to the development plan of including more existing stages in Ultimate above all else. Therefore, it's hard to judge whether or not Ultimate would've been the game in which he finally put a Modern Kirby stage into the series.

As for characters, it certainly could be argued that Bandana Dee could've (or even should've) gotten into the base roster of Ultimate, and that it's simply too late for him now in a world where DLC characters depend on how much they can turn Nintendo a good profit. Personally though, perhaps one of the only things holding him back is something I would call "Rising Star Syndrome" because of his significant prominence in the Modern Kirby era in comparison to the Classic Era (where Kirby, Meta Knight, and Dedede are prominent in, as well as the Modern Era). Since, subjectively speaking, I don't see why Bandana Dee wouldn't be considered a 'big' enough pick for DLC at this point. As of now, it's clear that HAL has been trying to push him as a main character ever since Kirby's Return to Dream Land, effectively separating himself from the average Waddle Dee/Servant of King Dedede while becoming his own distinct entity in terms of weaponry and personality. Not to mention that he's also basically the sole representative of the Waddle Dee species, and would serve as a beacon for that species, which has been with the Kirby series since the very beginning, in a game like Smash. Also, generally speaking, Waddle Dees are as marketable as they could get, especially in a country like Japan.

Now, another thing potentially holding him back is the lack of a game to promote (which could possibly be resolved if a new core Kirby game managed to release this year, of which he would then have to star in), along with the reasonable argument of whether or not Kirby could simply promote the game on his own (like he typically does). However, as a prominent figure in the Kirby franchise, I personally don't think it would necessarily be a horrible business decision to make him into a DLC fighter for Ultimate either way.
 

toonito

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Alright. From what I've been given and my own ideas, I've got this.

Content with no Fighter
  • Monster Hunter - MH has a large amount of content for a series without a fighter, and the music is titled like the playable third-parties. However, it could simply be that it was just considered for the boss fight only, as the monsters are also an iconic part of the series (Though not the only one). The music could just be because of the boss stage.
Rumors and Leaks
  • Koei Tecmo Fighter - Vergeben has said that Nintendo has dealt with Koei-Tecmo. Could lead to a fighter, but it could also refer to the Yuri AT, the footage from Byleth's trailer, and the AoC Spirit Event.
  • Lloyd Irving - Was mentioned in the big Negotiations Rumor, having been in the planning stages but dropped for whatever reason.
  • Yuri Lowell - Mentioned by the Negotiations Rumor alongside Lloyd.
  • Chun-Li - Named by the Negotiations Rumor as having been considered but "replaced by Ken somehow." Nintendo could go back to her for her icon status, though the situation with Ken may put her in league with Decidueye and Alucard, implying that the original deal is done.
Considered for Past Games
  • Rhythm Heaven Fighter - The Chorus Kids(?) were seemingly considered for Smash 4, only being ditched late in development. It's possible that Sakurai and/or Nintendo could go back and revive them, seeing as the development for Smash has been going on since the beginning of 4.
  • Ayumi Tachibana - Similar to Chorus Kids, but with Melee and Smash 64. Interestingly, the later makes her the oldest character to be planned and scrapped without being brought back as a fighter later on. In Melee's case, she was cited as not being recognizable to Western audiences, which is now moot because of the upcoming FDC port.
Speculation and Theories (Crackpots Included)
  • Granblue Fantasy Fighter - Hitagi once mentioned Katalina as coming to Smash. It could be a similar situation to Verge and Steve, though it should also be noted that they were likely referring to Granblue Fantasy
  • Rayman - Has received minor roles in Smash 4 and Ultimate, longer than most other third-parties. He may have been considered at some points, though it's also possible that he was just always a collectable.
IMO the 2 characters that best fit 2nd Chance Theory for FP2 are Monster Hunter and Chorus Kids. Monster Hunter along the lines of Min Min (additional content to a represented franchise) and Chorus Kids (revisiting a character who was confirmed to be cut in development i.e. Ice Climbers in Smash 4).

If I'm going by 2nd Chance Theory IMO my picks for CP10 and CP11 are Monster Hunter and a Gen 8 Pokemon. Maybe I'm drawing a blank but I don't think the rumored Gen 4 remakes will have any bearing on a character pick. I know Pokemon already had a Spirit Event but unlike a lot of people I think Pyra's inclusion slightly increased a Pokemon making the cut.
 

JOJONumber691

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Look, I also don't want a DW character, and Hayabusa is my most wanted, but it feels like you're just making up reasons why they wouldn't do DW.
DW with me is more or less just not being able to see it. If I'm wrong I'm wrong, but I just can't see it at the moment.
 
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