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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

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Captain Shwampy

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Yeah I think it is, but unfortunately seeing how Sega hardly acknowledges some of their own franchises, its likely we'll never hear from Sammy's side of Ips ever again

Also if I remember correctly 2 Franchises that use to belong to Sammy was Guilty Gear, and The Rumble Fish, until their original creators bought their rights
(Arc System Works and Dimps)
Well Gun-Dec got a re-release on switch online but i doubt any of the AtomisWave stuff by sammy will ever get ported other than Rumble Fish.

Although its apprantley very easy to convert AtomisWave Games into Dreamcast GDI since they all use the same parts the SEGA Naomi arcade uses.
Someone even found a unreleased Sammy fighter and ported it to over to dreamcast
 

N3ON

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Conker the Squirrel from "Conker's Bad Fur Day"

View attachment 301964
I wouldn't classify Conker as obscure. At least not outside Japan.

I'm not so sure it's that Sakurai didn't care for those types of picks so much as they kinda don't fit the direction Nintendo has been pushing for Smash (non Nintendo associated big name 3rd Parties) and there was a limited amount of development time. It is a shame to see them go for sure, as I'm a big fan of both Advance Wars and Custom Robo, but I feel ultimately I'm pretty happy to see stuff like Rathalos and Yuri as assists in their place.
Well stuff like Devil, Prince Sable, Sheriff, Sukapon, Takamaru, and Excitebikes don't fit that paradigm either, but literally the only retro AT to ever get the axe has been the latter, while the mid-era stuff gets cut much more readily than any other group.

I don't understand why any ATs needed to be cut in this last interim considering Ultimate directly used 4 as its foundation. For example, none of the Pokeballs were cut. From a development standpoint I imagine it would've been pretty minimal work to bring them all back.
Isabelle and Dark Samus notwithstanding, I suppose.

Ok then how bout Mack from Eco Shooter?View attachment 301965


Sufficiently unheard of.

I support Scorpion and Waluigi man, everything I support is 99% heart.
Nice try, heart would be Noob Saibot and Foreman Spike.
 

Pillow

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I don't understand why any ATs needed to be cut in this last interim considering Ultimate directly used 4 as its foundation. For example, none of the Pokeballs were cut. From a development standpoint I imagine it would've been pretty minimal work to bring them all back.
Isabelle and Dark Samus notwithstanding, I suppose.
Well, I think the idea is retro things are considered timeless, while the other stuff eventually gets forgotten or becomes retro. Though yeah, not sure why they had to be cut between 4 and Ultimate either. I feel guilty complaining because Smash Ultimate does have tons of content, but more content is always better. Unrelated, but Takamaru totally should've been a character.
 

Cutie Gwen

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Watch the next character be K' from KOF somehow. Another leaker trying to trick us smh...
Ah, but the 'is pronounced as Dash, which DOES have a vowel!
Adding onto the topic of Falcom in Smash, I'm once again bringing up the Kondo interview
[Anime Expo 2019] An Interview with Toshihiro Kondo – Endless History (esterior.net)
View attachment 301908
Basically, the guy in charge of the company would choose Adol first, by virtue of working on Ys for a while, but he doesn't know how he'd work (Personally, I think it has to do with the fact that he replaces his gear between basically every game). As such, he'd go for Rean instead, since he'd fit in well with his sword. Yeah that's gonna go over well

If we have an ARMS situation and Nintendo just decides "Hey Sakurai, add someone from Falcom," I wonder how that would turn out. Maybe he'll just go along with Kondo and choose Rean. Then again, he might also take the comment about Adol as a challenge and figure something out with him. Or maybe he'll just take a third option and go "Why not Estelle?"
Honestly I've been thinking and Adol would work as a stance change/3 in 1 character by being able to swap between a regular sword, a greatsword and a rapier. It works with how 6 and the Party system games work. Adol can swap em and go from balanced, to slower and bulkier or faster and more precise
 

h2ogre

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The real reason Rex didn’t make it into the Final Roster

B68C2C64-2433-41E9-8603-CC59CBECEF01.jpeg
E7128AFB-14E3-4263-BFFC-EDA3D4532C83.png



Remember how Sakurai told us that Rex couldn’t make it into smash because his game came out in 2017, which according to Sakurai is after the planning period for smash. So, its implied that he couldn’t add characters from games past that year. But then Byleth’s game came out in 2019 so...what’s the deal? While i do still believe that timing was the main issue, i refuse to believe that 2017 games were the cutoff for dlc fighters. Ultimate started development in 2016, which means there was a good window of time to add and drop potential dlc fighters all the way up until the games release. We also know that the dlc fighters were finalized on November 2018 because of a tweet Sakurai made saying so.The cutoff was never 2017. I personally believe that Monolithsoft was given a character slot in the dlc lineup and they chose Rex. Sakurai’s job was to find out how the character would play combat wise. And this is where i bet he ran into trouble. The game Rex is from has a combat system that heavily involves Pyrah/Mythra and Sakurai wanted to implement that mechanic into the character’s gameplay. The whole combat mechanic planning was where Sakurai ran into problems because he couldn’t figure out a gameplay mechanic that worked best for Rex, while at the same time making sure that the mechanic he uses harmonizes with the rest of smashes overall gameplay. And I doubt he wanted to make another ice climbers character. (plus that isn’t how Rex and Pyrah work in their game.)
Basically after a long time of trying to figure out how the character would play, Sakura finally realized that the character was taking up to much time and it just wasn’t working. So Sakurai told Monolithsoft, “it just is not working, would you like to pick a different character?”
Monolithsoft thought for a minute as they scrolled through characters their company had the rights to. Eventually they told Sakurai, “KOSMOS.” And that would explain all of the old KOSMOS rumors that came out of nowhere a while back. She still could be one of the final three dlc. But hey, thats just a theory.
 

osby

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Ah, but the 'is pronounced as Dash, which DOES have a vowel!

Honestly I've been thinking and Adol would work as a stance change/3 in 1 character by being able to swap between a regular sword, a greatsword and a rapier. It works with how 6 and the Party system games work. Adol can swap em and go from balanced, to slower and bulkier or faster and more precise
So, like Min Min but if she was fun to play?
 

osby

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The real reason Rex didn’t make it into the Final Roster

View attachment 301966View attachment 301967



Remember how Sakurai told us that Rex couldn’t make it into smash because his game came out in 2017, which according to Sakurai is after the planning period for smash. So, its implied that he couldn’t add characters from games past that year. But then Byleth’s game came out in 2019 so...what’s the deal? While i do still believe that timing was the main issue, i refuse to believe that 2017 games were the cutoff for dlc fighters. Ultimate started development in 2016, which means there was a good window of time to add and drop potential dlc fighters all the way up until the games release. We also know that the dlc fighters were finalized on November 2018 because of a tweet Sakurai made saying so.The cutoff was never 2017. I personally believe that Monolithsoft was given a character slot in the dlc lineup and they chose Rex. Sakurai’s job was to find out how the character would play combat wise. And this is where i bet he ran into trouble. The game Rex is from has a combat system that heavily involves Pyrah/Mythra and Sakurai wanted to implement that mechanic into the character’s gameplay. The whole combat mechanic planning was where Sakurai ran into problems because he couldn’t figure out a gameplay mechanic that worked best for Rex, while at the same time making sure that the mechanic he uses harmonizes with the rest of smashes overall gameplay. And I doubt he wanted to make another ice climbers character. (plus that isn’t how Rex and Pyrah work in their game.)
Basically after a long time of trying to figure out how the character would play, Sakura finally realized that the character was taking up to much time and it just wasn’t working. So Sakurai told Monolithsoft, “it just is not working, would you like to pick a different character?”
Monolithsoft thought for a minute as they scrolled through characters their company had the rights to. Eventually they told Sakurai, “KOSMOS.” And that would explain all of the old KOSMOS rumors that came out of nowhere a while back. She still could be one of the final three dlc. But hey, thats just a theory.
KOS-MOS is owned by Bandai Namco, not Monolithsoft.
 

h2ogre

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KOS-MOS is owned by Bandai Namco, not Monolithsoft.
So then Monolith soft goes to bandai and says, we helped you with this game a while back, can we borrow? then it could make her a bandai rep
 
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7NATOR

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KOS-MOS is owned by Bandai Namco, not Monolithsoft.
Considering that Namco is working on this game, and that Monolith was even able to get Her into Xenoblade Chronicles 2, which is a way more niche game than Samsh, I think Namco owning the character doesn't change much
 

Metal Shop X

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I still think of a double reveal with Eggman & KOS-MOS in it would be lit.

Goofy Vilainous robot maker dude with toony design fighting Stoic Heroic robot humanoid girl with sci-fi design.

A match made in heaven.
 

osby

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So the. Monolith soft goes to bandai and says, we helped you with this game a while back, can we borrow? then it could make her a bandai rep
Bandai Namco is already involved in the development of Smash, there is no need for Monolithsoft to play the middleman.

KOS-MOS can happen but I don't believe her being a replacement for Rex when their circumstances are so different.
 

h2ogre

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Considering that Namco is working on this game, and that Monolith was even able to get Her into Xenoblade Chronicles 2, which is a way more niche game than Samsh, I think Namco owning the character doesn't change much
Especially since they helped with smash. It makes since. Even though she would be chosen by monolith soft, she would represent bandai TECHNICALLY. Only because monolith soft wanted her in
 
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N3ON

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i refuse to believe that 2017 games were the cutoff for dlc fighters.
No one said they were. The cutoff for base and the cutoff for each round of DLC are going to be wildly different, given each was chosen in a different year. Especially between base and DLC.

Rex didn't make it as DLC because base and DLC have different priorities, 2015 and 2018 Nintendo have different priorities, and Sakurai and Nintendo have different priorities.

I personally believe that Monolithsoft was given a character slot in the dlc lineup and they chose Rex. Sakurai’s job was to find out how the character would play combat wise. And this is where i bet he ran into trouble. The game Rex is from has a combat system that heavily involves Pyrah/Mythra and Sakurai wanted to implement that mechanic into the character’s gameplay. The whole combat mechanic planning was where Sakurai ran into problems because he couldn’t figure out a gameplay mechanic that worked best for Rex, while at the same time making sure that the mechanic he uses harmonizes with the rest of smashes overall gameplay. And I doubt he wanted to make another ice climbers character. (plus that isn’t how Rex and Pyrah work in their game.)
Basically after a long time of trying to figure out how the character would play, Sakura finally realized that the character was taking up to much time and it just wasn’t working. So Sakurai told Monolithsoft, “it just is not working, would you like to pick a different character?”
Monolithsoft thought for a minute as they scrolled through characters their company had the rights to. Eventually they told Sakurai, “KOSMOS.” And that would explain all of the old KOSMOS rumors that came out of nowhere a while back. She still could be one of the final three dlc. But hey, thats just a theory.
As far as baseless theories go... this is one of them.

Personally I don't know why people keep doubting Sakurai's ability to create movesets. How many "x couldn't work well in Smash" characters need he implement before people give him the benefit of the doubt?

So then Monolith soft goes to bandai and says, we helped you with this game a while back, can we borrow? then it could make her a bandai rep
Monolith and Bandai-Namco... two parties who are not involved in the character selection process.
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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Remember how Sakurai told us that Rex couldn’t make it into smash because his game came out in 2017, which according to Sakurai is after the planning period for smash. So, its implied that he couldn’t add characters from games past that year. But then Byleth’s game came out in 2019 so...what’s the deal? While i do still believe that timing was the main issue, i refuse to believe that 2017 games were the cutoff for dlc fighters. Ultimate started development in 2016, which means there was a good window of time to add and drop potential dlc fighters all the way up until the games release. We also know that the dlc fighters were finalized on November 2018 because of a tweet Sakurai made saying so.The cutoff was never 2017. I personally believe that Monolithsoft was given a character slot in the dlc lineup and they chose Rex. Sakurai’s job was to find out how the character would play combat wise. And this is where i bet he ran into trouble. The game Rex is from has a combat system that heavily involves Pyrah/Mythra and Sakurai wanted to implement that mechanic into the character’s gameplay. The whole combat mechanic planning was where Sakurai ran into problems because he couldn’t figure out a gameplay mechanic that worked best for Rex, while at the same time making sure that the mechanic he uses harmonizes with the rest of smashes overall gameplay. And I doubt he wanted to make another ice climbers character. (plus that isn’t how Rex and Pyrah work in their game.)
Basically after a long time of trying to figure out how the character would play, Sakura finally realized that the character was taking up to much time and it just wasn’t working. So Sakurai told Monolithsoft, “it just is not working, would you like to pick a different character?”
Monolithsoft thought for a minute as they scrolled through characters their company had the rights to. Eventually they told Sakurai, “KOSMOS.” And that would explain all of the old KOSMOS rumors that came out of nowhere a while back. She still could be one of the final three dlc. But hey, thats just a theory.
As Will said, KOSMOS isn't owned by the same company as Rex & Pyra/Mythra are. She's also not from the same series, so she doesn't make sense as a replacement in that sense either.
EDIT: I suppose that doesn't disprove of the replacement thing in the first place, but it wouldn't really point to KOSMOS specifically.

Also, while I know different people have different ideas, I feel like if I was able to come up with something without too much effort, Sakurai would be able to do so as well.
 
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h2ogre

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As Will said, KOSMOS isn't owned by the same company as Rex & Pyra/Mythra are. She's also not from the same series, so she doesn't make sense as a replacement in that sense either.

Also, while I know different people have different ideas, I feel like if I was able to come up with something without too much effort, Sakurai would be able to do so as well.
I never said she had to be a xenoblde character. I said that monolith soft got a dlc slot
 
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osby

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Considering that Namco is working on this game, and that Monolith was even able to get Her into Xenoblade Chronicles 2, which is a way more niche game than Samsh, I think Namco owning the character doesn't change much
I'm not saying that they can't acquire her rights, I'm pointing out that it makes no sense to reserve a spot for a Switch game rep from a Nintendo subsidiary and then replacing it with a third party character from an old PS2 game.
 

SharkLord

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Honestly I've been thinking and Adol would work as a stance change/3 in 1 character by being able to swap between a regular sword, a greatsword and a rapier. It works with how 6 and the Party system games work. Adol can swap em and go from balanced, to slower and bulkier or faster and more precise
Funny, I was just thinking about this. I'm starting up a concept for an Ys Challenger's Pack, and I'm not sure which mechanic I'd use for the down special.
On one hand, the swapping has been a staple of the series ever since Ark brought the series back, be it with magic, swords, or party members.
On the other hand, I also think it'd be cool to translate the Flash Guard, which has been a consistent gameplay element from Seven-onwards. Admittedly it'd be pretty similar to Incineroar's Revenge, but I think we could differentiate them by giving it a low, set multiplier on Adol's attacks and have the effect last for longer based on the strength of the countered attack. Of course, this could easily make Adol unbalanced in or against his favor if implemented wrong. I suppose we could make it happen when he Perfect Shields an attack, but not everyone can pull that off consistently.
 

h2ogre

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I'm not saying that they can't acquire her rights, I'm pointing out that it makes no sense to reserve a spot for a Switch game rep from a Nintendo subsidiary and then replacing it with a third party character from an old PS2 game.
im just saying it would explain all the Kosmos rumors. And there was never a rule that the game had to sell well
 

Pillow

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Honestly I've been thinking and Adol would work as a stance change/3 in 1 character by being able to swap between a regular sword, a greatsword and a rapier. It works with how 6 and the Party system games work. Adol can swap em and go from balanced, to slower and bulkier or faster and more precise
Would the stance shift just change a few moves, all of them, or would the moves remain the same but just have different properties depending on the current weapon? I'd be down for any of these options other than the second.

Personally I don't know why people keep doubting Sakurai's ability to create movesets. How many "x couldn't work well in Smash" characters need he implement before people give him the benefit of the doubt?
But Young Link should have a Majora's Mask moveset REEEEEEE

im just saying it would explain all the Kosmos rumors. And there was never a rule that the game had to sell well
Why do rumors need explaining? If the rumors are true, and KOS-MOS is one of the next 3 characters, then she got in because Sakurai chose her. There's no need to give wild speculations about it.
 
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h2ogre

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A lot of characters have rumors surrounding them, doesn't mean they have to be founded in truth.

And I never brought up the sales of Xenosaga so not sure why you are.
But the long standing rumors that seemingly come out of no where, like hayabusa and Kosmos, probably have some truth behind them
 

Cutie Gwen

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Funny, I was just thinking about this. I'm starting up a concept for an Ys Challenger's Pack, and I'm not sure which mechanic I'd use for the down special.
On one hand, the swapping has been a staple of the series ever since Ark brought the series back, be it with magic, swords, or party members.
On the other hand, I also think it'd be cool to translate the Flash Guard, which has been a consistent gameplay element from Seven-onwards. Admittedly it'd be pretty similar to Incineroar's Revenge, but I think we could differentiate them by giving it a low, set multiplier on Adol's attacks and have the effect last for longer based on the strength of the countered attack. Of course, this could easily make Adol unbalanced in or against his favor if implemented wrong. I suppose we could make it happen when he Perfect Shields an attack, but not everyone can pull that off consistently.
I'd go with weapon switching because Ganondorf doesn't need a matchup where trying to land a jab while get him decimated but that's me

the stance shift just change a few moves, all of them, or would the moves remain the same but just have different properties depending on the current weapon? I'd be down for any of these options other than the second
My idea is that they'd change up the moves and the properties, you can't exactly have a regular sword swing and try to pass the exact same swing as an attack used by a beeg chonky sword and a finesse rapier
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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Or maybe thats just not what they wanted. Maybe they felt kosmos was more unique gameplay wise
You just said that's what they wanted in a scenario like this tho...

If they wanted Rex because he's from a decently popular 1st party Switch game, then they'd pick another character from a decently popular 1st party Switch game. If they wanted Rex because they wanted a MonolithSoft character, then they'd pick another MonolithSoft character. And if they wanted Rex simply because he's Rex (or didn't like the previous two alternatives), then they would go back to square 1 with the decision. None of these scenarios really point to KOSMOS specifically.
 

Pillow

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My idea is that they'd change up the moves and the properties, you can't exactly have a regular sword swing and try to pass the exact same swing as an attack used by a beeg chonky sword and a finesse rapier
My main concern with changing the whole moveset, is it basically becomes a transforming character like was Zelda/Sheik used to be (and Pkmn Trainer currently is), which was removed for a reason. Though I guess not the whole moveset would have to use the weapons, so it'd only change those specific moves that use weapons.
 

N3ON

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If your theory involves giving a party who doesn't get to make roster decisions the ability to make roster decisions, limiting the result to just getting KOS-MOS is pretty blatantly preferential.

Why not theorize that Camelot gets a choice, and they pick Waluigi or Isaac? How about HAL? Maybe they want Bandana Dee. Or hey, Platinum or KT or Namco, they're buddy-buddy with Nintendo, maybe they get a choice!

The problem with the Monolith-chooses-KOS-MOS theory is that if you open the gates to unprecedented selection privilege in ancillary development partners, you can't very well limit it to one specific outcome.
 

h2ogre

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Double post, remember to edit your posts.
You just said that's what they wanted in a scenario like this tho...

If they wanted Rex because he's from a decently popular 1st party Switch game, then they'd pick another character from a decently popular 1st party Switch game. If they wanted Rex because they wanted a MonolithSoft character, then they'd pick another MonolithSoft character. And if they wanted Rex simply because he's Rex (or didn't like the previous two alternatives), then they would go back to square 1 with the decision. None of these scenarios really point to KOSMOS specifically.
The theory is based on the idea that monolith solft gets a dlc pick. Also its a THEORY. Not saying it has to be kosmos as one of the dlc fighters. And since the theory is based on the idea that monolith soft is choosing, then of course they are going to choose a game fro xeno

If your theory involves giving a party who doesn't get to make roster decisions the ability to make roster decisions, limiting the result to just getting KOS-MOS is pretty blatantly preferential.

Why not theorize that Camelot gets a choice, and they pick Waluigi or Isaac? How about HAL? Maybe they want Bandana Dee. Or hey, Platinum or KT or Namco, they're buddy-buddy with Nintendo, maybe they get a choice!

The problem with the Monolith-chooses-KOS-MOS theory is that if you open the gates to unprecedented selection privilege in ancillary development partners, you can't very well limit it to one specific outcome.
Who ever said monlolith soft couldnt get a dlc. Theres no rule on what compnies get dlc and what companies dont
 

Cutie Gwen

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My main concern with changing the whole moveset, is it basically becomes a transforming character like was Zelda/Sheik used to be (and Pkmn Trainer currently is), which was removed for a reason. Though I guess not the whole moveset would have to use the weapons, so it'd only change those specific moves that use weapons.
Probably the biggest issue with the examples you gave is having to make extra models with different shapes, sizes and general stats. The idea in my head is that Adol's overal speed and weight wouldn't actually change, after all, Ryu essentially has 2 sets of normals so limiting to 1 model isn't a bad idea in Sakurai's eyes
 

h2ogre

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Who ever said monlolith soft couldnt get a dlc. Theres no rule on what compnies get dlc and what companies dont
Yeah, any company could be next. There are lots of possibilities. No one ever said there couldnt be when it comes to dlc.
 

SharkLord

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I'd go with weapon switching because Ganondorf doesn't need a matchup where trying to land a jab while get him decimated but that's me
Good point. I was imagining it so that weak attacks like the jabs would only give enough time to land a single hit in and just have a little x1.1 multiplier, but that would have to be handled correctly or else it would either make Adol overreliant on it, be completely unnecessary, or be hideously busted. Maybe I'll just stick to the weapon swapping...
 

h2ogre

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Yeah, any company could be next. There are lots of possibilities. No one ever said there couldnt be when it comes to dlc.
Also ninte
If your theory involves giving a party who doesn't get to make roster decisions the ability to make roster decisions, limiting the result to just getting KOS-MOS is pretty blatantly preferential.

Why not theorize that Camelot gets a choice, and they pick Waluigi or Isaac? How about HAL? Maybe they want Bandana Dee. Or hey, Platinum or KT or Namco, they're buddy-buddy with Nintendo, maybe they get a choice!

The problem with the Monolith-chooses-KOS-MOS theory is that if you open the gates to unprecedented selection privilege in ancillary development partners, you can't very well limit it to one specific outcome.
also, nintendo owns monolith now, and nintendo chooses who gets in. monolith soft choosing doesnt seem too unlikely here. They just need the ok from daddy nintendo
 

Pillow

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Probably the biggest issue with the examples you gave is having to make extra models with different shapes, sizes and general stats. The idea in my head is that Adol's overal speed and weight wouldn't actually change, after all, Ryu essentially has 2 sets of normals so limiting to 1 model isn't a bad idea in Sakurai's eyes
The weight/shape thing is a fair point. I think Ryu isn't a good example, because his 2 normal sets really don't animate that differently from each other though they have different frame data and power, but I'll concede keeping the same character model is a good distinction between stance changing and transforming characters. If Smash does get its first stance change character, I would never have expected Adol, but I'll take anything to help him distinguish himself from Smash's large FE sword boys cast.

Yeah, any company could be next. There are lots of possibilities. No one ever said there couldnt be when it comes to dlc.
Did you deadass just respond to your own comment?
 

N3ON

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Who ever said monlolith soft couldnt get a dlc. Theres no rule on what compnies get dlc and what companies dont
That's missing the point entirely. It has nothing to do with what dev gets DLC, it's about what dev chooses the DLC. And that dev is Nintendo.

If arbitrarily designating another developer as being able to pick, you effectively trigger the possibility of any other equally related dev the ability to pick, and thus inundate the theory with so many options that it decreases the chance of any one specific outcome, such as Monolith choosing KOS-MOS.
 
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