Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[chocolatejr9]

Hey Stupid Canadians!

Blame Canada plays in the background

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Just not gonna respond to him anymore as it's hard to understand what he's saying. Nothing against you man, it's all good.

 

[Truth the Ceomasterz33]

Just not gonna respond to him anymore as it's hard to understand. Nothing against you man, it's all good.

I'm Sorry!

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I think Ryu Hayabusa could count as a more "low key" character. He's not that small or niche, but he's definitely not huge when you compare it to the others third party of the pass 2 so far (Minecraft and FF7). Another more low key I could see getting in would be someone from Ys.

So with my guess, my pass could go like this:
-Character popular worldwide: Capcom rep (Dante or Monster hunter), Solaire from Dark souls, Crash Bandicoot, second Sonic characters
-Character bigger in Japan: Phoenix Wright, Arle, Raiden, Level 5 character (Yokai watch or Layton), Reimu, other Namco characters (Tales of, Taiko no tatsujin Digimon, Xenosaga)
-Low key character or more Western character: Hayabusa, Ys rep, Rayman, Dragonborn, indie character (Hollow knight, Cadence etc.)

This is my general idea for now, but of course there's more character that could fit in those categories. For now I don't see first party as very likely, but maybe things will change.

Yeah, I think Hayabusa could be the “Terry” of this pass. I think Hayabusa is a little more well known than Terry worldwide but overall they’re both smaller scale characters with a more hardcore following.

I think at first people were a bit apprehensive to Terry and his legacy but then after it was explained by Sakurai everyone was like “oh ok Terry makes sense in Smash then”. I think the same could be said when Hayabusa hopefully gets in.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I'm Sorry!

No need to apologize. English isn't your first language, again just hard to understand what you say.

 

[Truth the Ceomasterz33]

No need to apologize. English isn't your first language, again just hard to understand what you say.

I'm Indonesian and English!

 

[Firox]

Getting triggered over me saying E3 over June despite Pass 2 being finalized before Covid like bruh.

I wasn't triggered. It was an honest question. If we still get E3, that's cool. Just wasn't sure what kind of expectations we should have just yet.

 

[JOJONumber691]

I wasn't triggered. It was an honest question. If we still get E3, that's cool. Just wasn't sure what kind of expectations we should have just yet.

I was referring to when this was finalized. Pass 2 was finalized in November of 2019, thus there would've been two characters prioritized for E3.

 

[SpectreJordan]

Any Bowser-themed stage.

It’s a crime that this isn’t in Smash.

Nope you're getting Daruk instead. Nintendo only adds characters no one asked for.

Honestly, I’d be down for it. I’d prefer Mipha/Impa/Urbosa but he was cool & the Gorons are a Zelda staple.

I'm still feeling folks are putting too much stock into Crash.

Honestly, I just don't see him happening. If we do get a "big" character I think it'll be more around to lines of Chun-Li or Ryu Hayabusa perhaps even a Tales rep.

I just don't think we're gonna get another one on the levels of Banjo and Steve.

Chun-Li could count for the big character spot, but I don’t think Ryu or the Tales character would. They’re well known but not on the same level as the BIG characters, especially the last two we got.

 

[Firox]

I was referring to when this was finalized. Pass 2 was finalized in November of 2019, thus there would've been two characters prioritized for E3.

Oh, OK. I wasn't following that part of the conversation. I just wanted to ask if E3 was going to happen this year. That's why I was confused to see the comment about being triggered. Wasn't sure if it was referring to me or someone else.

 

[Some AT-AT]

Eh, i'm pretty 50/50 about E3 this year

 

[JOJONumber691]

Oh, OK. I wasn't following that part of the conversation. I just wanted to ask if E3 was going to happen this year. That's why I was confused to see the comment about being triggered. Wasn't sure if it was referring to me or someone else.

Ah. I see I see. That makes more sense now. Sorry about snapping at you earlier.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Hey Stupid Canadians!

I'd like to be outraged, but I literally have the word "Stoopid" in my username, so I'd be lying to myself

 

[Firox]

Ah. I see I see. That makes more sense now. Sorry about snapping at you earlier.

No worries. I really do hope we end up having E3 though. If we do, I'm almost certain we'll get a Smash reveal.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Well this has been a rather wholesome day of misunderstandings.

 

[SharkLord]

Well this has been a rather wholesome day of misunderstandings.

Misunderstandings

Just like Voice Theory

 

[Garteam]

It's just that seeing Nintendo's track record with first parties and DLC, I'm not expecting the likes of Isaac, Dixie Kong or Bandana Dee, characters that would appeal to the hardcore Smash fans, being chosen for DLC.

I somewhat disagree with this idea. While it's true that promotion has usually superseded popularity for DLC for first parties, and 's primary demographic were hardcore Smash fans that had played either character in Melee/Brawl and wanted them to return. Likewise, while not a first party, was highly requested by the core Smash fanbase.

The core fanbase's requests have had some impact on Smash's DLC, so it wouldn't surprise me if we got a fighter who overtly fits this niche like Lucas/Roy and Banjo did.

 

[Faso115]

Hello, here is the living reminder that Cacomallow exists.

Btw, are partner streams still happening?

 

[SneakyLink]

Btw, are partner streams still happening?

One hasn't been announced for this month, but I can't see Nintendo deciding to drop the Partner Showcases completely.

Only question is will the next one be a livestream or a uploaded video?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

One hasn't been announced for this month, but I can't see Nintendo deciding to drop the Partner Showcases completely.

Only question is will the next one be a livestream or a uploaded video?

Probably uploaded. Wasn’t the mini with ARMS last year uploaded too?

 

[chocolatejr9]

Hello, here is the living reminder that Cacomallow exists.

Btw, are partner streams still happening?

Weren't those guys asking for suggestions on crossovers? I don't wanna get anybody's hopes, but we all know how popular Smash is in the context of crossovers...

Eh, it'll probably just be a Spirit.

 

[SneakyLink]

Probably uploaded. Wasn’t the mini with ARMS last year uploaded too?

The Mini Direct with ARMS was uploaded as was the Mario 35th direct.

I believe two of the showcases (July and September) were streamed.

 

[Deleted member]

Well, Steve also had many leak before the game even release, so I wouldn't count Hayabusa out for that. Perhaps Hayabusa is taking longer than expected to deal like Steve apparently took around 5 years. My guess is that pass 2 was actually planned more early than we think (maybe around the same time as pass 1 they already start thinking about pass 2), so Steve and maybe Hayabusa could have been saved for that moment.

To be fair, Steve's mentions came via Vergeben and all his stuff did eventually prove true so his rumors did come from the one leaker who panned out whenever he leaked something (he was just aware of Minecraft content and was unsure of Steve, to be accurate). Hyabusa leak never came from a reputable leaker.

 

[SNEKeater]

I somewhat disagree with this idea. While it's true that promotion has usually superseded popularity for DLC for first parties, and 's primary demographic were hardcore Smash fans that had played either character in Melee/Brawl and wanted them to return. Likewise, while not a first party, was highly requested by the core Smash fanbase.

The core fanbase's requests have had some impact on Smash's DLC, so it wouldn't surprise me if we got a fighter who overtly fits this niche like Lucas/Roy and Banjo did.

True, but I don't think Roy and Lucas really qualify here. Both were veterans, and once you're in Smash people will want you to return even if you were never super popular. Bringing those two was probably easier as well, they didn't need to make a new stage and their Smash 4 incarnations weren't made from the scratch.

Banjo was certainly a fan request. But I'm not saying we won't get a fan request, I mean, Steve was one even if he never was as popular in the Smash community as the likes of Ridley or K. Rool. The difference is that I have a hard time seeing a first party fan request as DLC. Obviously they could prove me wrong, but so far and based on what we got so far and how Nintendo has operated with DLC character I don't have the feeling we will see the likes of Isaac, Krystal and company as DLC.

If we talk about Smash 6 base roster then that's a completely different story.

Waluigi or Rex I could see that without a problem, but beyond that... Maybe Isaac could make the jump as well? I don't think he is as unlikely as Krystal or other ATs. He's probably the most popular request among ATs if we exclude Waluigi.
I could see him getting in if Nintendo has plans for Golden Sun in the near future, and there's some evidence that suggests we could see something Golden Sun related in the upcoming years. If that will pay off I don't know, but I could see Nintendo pushing for him if they have plans for the series, in a similar way to how they handled the ARMS inclusion.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

To be fair, Steve's mentions came via Vergeben and all his stuff did eventually prove true so his rumors did come from the one leaker who panned out whenever he leaked something (he was just aware of Minecraft content and was unsure of Steve, to be accurate). Hyabusa leak never came from a reputable leaker.

Vergeben just said “Nintendo and Koei Tecmo were in talks”. Bam. That’s it. Didn’t say about what.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Vergeben just said “Nintendo and Koei Tecmo were in talks”. Bam. That’s it. Didn’t say about what.

And we technically did get Koei content in base game with Fatal Frame, so maybe it was about that?

 

[Guynamednelson]

The difference is that I have a hard time seeing a first party fan request as DLC. Obviously they could prove me wrong, but so far and based on what we got so far and how Nintendo has operated with DLC character I don't have the feeling we will see the likes of Isaac, Krystal and company as DLC.

I have a hard time seeing an already-represented third party get a second unique rep as DLC, or ever. Obviously they could prove me wrong, but so far and based on what we got so far and how Nintendo has operated with DLC character I don't have the feeling we will see the likes of Sephiroth, Eggman and company as DLC.

 

[SNEKeater]

I have a hard time seeing an already-represented third party get a second unique rep as DLC, or ever. Obviously they could prove me wrong, but so far and based on what we got so far and how Nintendo has operated with DLC character I don't have the feeling we will see the likes of Sephiroth, Eggman and company as DLC.

Yeah yeah I know, but what can I do about it? It's how I feel about the matter. I don't care if I'll be right or wrong, in fact, I'd rather they prove me wrong because I'd like to see some ATs as playable characters.
I'm not gonna lie and going to say "yeah it's going to happen, because Sephiroth broke the so called fan rules!" when I'm just not feeling it.

I would not put money on Isaac, Dixie, BWD, or Krystal, to name a few, making it as DLC. Does that mean I think they're impossible? Nope, just that I don't think they're likely.

 

[Guynamednelson]

yeah it's going to happen, because Sephiroth broke the so called fan rules!

He doesn't mean they're guaranteed, he just means it's time to stop being so averse to risks.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Besides, if someone really expects Steve and Sephiroth to be topped, they'll definitely be dissapointed by the rest of the pass.

Mm, that's true. It would probably take a Sora, Master Chief or Sony main to be on that level at this point.

Sure, you can argue that , or are definitely not for everyone

...also and .

 

[SharkLord]

And we technically did get Koei content in base game with Fatal Frame, so maybe it was about that?

There was also the AoC event, and possibly Byleth's trailer (I remember seeing something about them being credited, since it was based on a cutscene from their game, but I'll need to double-check that one)

 

[Mushroomguy12]

You know, it's wild that out of all villains, Bowser doesn't have his own stage. I mean, you'd think Bowser's Castle would be one of the first things they would think up given its a staple of Mario & Mario kart games.

The closest thing we have is the Bowser's Sky Castle portion of the Paper Mario stage, and if you really want to stretch it, the tower section of the New Super Mario Bros U stage, although neither of those sections are a full actual stage, just portions of ones.

 

[Garteam]

Waluigi or Rex I could see that without a problem, but beyond that... Maybe Isaac could make the jump as well? I don't think he is as unlikely as Krystal or other ATs. He's probably the most popular request among ATs if we exclude Waluigi.
I could see him getting in if Nintendo has plans for Golden Sun in the near future, and there's some evidence that suggests we could see something Golden Sun related in the upcoming years. If that will pay off I don't know, but I could see Nintendo pushing for him if they have plans for the series, in a similar way to how they handled the ARMS inclusion.

Honestly, I think Issac would be fine as a retro rep. Golden Sun is already older than Ice Climber was when it was added to Melee, so I don't see why it couldn't have met the age threshold to be a classic character. Hell, by the time the next Smash game is released, there's a decent shot that Dark Dawn may be older than Ice Climber was when it was added to Melee.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

There was also the AoC event, and possibly Byleth's trailer (I remember seeing something about them being credited, since it was based on a cutscene from their game, but I'll need to double-check that one)

Yeah apparently Koei did the dialogue for the trailer (which make sense considering that they co-develop three houses with Intelligent systems).

 

[SharkLord]

Honestly, I think Issac would be fine as a retro rep. Golden Sun is already older than Ice Climber was when it was added to Melee, so I don't see why it couldn't have met the age threshold to be a classic character. Hell, by the time the next Smash game is released, there's a decent shot that Dark Dawn may be older than Ice Climber was when it was added to Melee.

Because it's only retro if it's 8-bit!

Speaking seriously, it seems like the gap between "retro" and "modern" is widening. Generally, it's used to refer to the NES or SNES, though I think the Nintendo 64 counts under that too. I think it's partially because there's just less advancements to be had between generations nowadays; Back in the day, each generation was a massive shift in graphics, while starting around the sixth or seventh generation and onward, it's pretty much just better definition. As such, you might need to look things up to see when a game was made, when previously you can tell from a glance alone. AT the very least, though, I think we can say the sixth generation consoles are on the border of being retro.

 

[3BitSaurus]

You know, it's wild that out of all villains, Bowser doesn't have his own stage. I mean, you'd think Bowser's Castle would be one of the first things they would think up given its a staple of Mario & Mario kart games.

It is even weirder when you consider that we have several "first level" stages (Mushroom Kingdom, Mushroomy Kingdom, 3D Land for the most part, Golden Plains and the beginning of Mushroom Kingdom U, plus Yoshi's Island from SMW, which is listed as a Yoshi stage) and TWO versions of Peach's Castle.

Yet poor Bowser's home is nowhere to be seen.

 

[Pillow]

Chun-Li could count for the big character spot, but I don’t think Ryu or the Tales character would. They’re well known but not on the same level as the BIG characters, especially the last two we got.

I feel a lot of people dismiss characters as not being "big" enough, but I'm not sure that's the case for Ryu Hayabusa. It's certainly hard to top characters like Steve or Sephiroth, who are both huge and recognizable, but they each had their own issues too. I feel being a big character is some mix of popular, legacy, and relevance, but Steve lacks the legacy of some of the other 3rd parties while Sephiroth lacked relevance sorta...I recognize FF7 remake put him back in the spotlight but I believe he hadn't shown up in a game for some time before that.

The thing is, between popularity, legacy, and relevance Sakurai seems to favor legacy the most. Megaman, the Belmonts, even Terry came from rather dormant series with tons of legacy. Ryu is in a situation very similar to Terry, never being quite as big of a household name as someone like Megaman, while being a prominent characters of two series and the main character of one of those two series (the older one).

If you're going for iconic, then yeah Chun-Li is probably the biggest name on the table left apart from maybe Lara Croft. If Western IP's were treated with the same significance then maybe i'd toss the 2 green armor FPS dudes here as well. But all those characters have their own issues that Hayabusa does not. I still feel he's the clear frontrunner for being the next "obvious" slot.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

...if you really want to stretch it, the tower section of the New Super Mario Bros U stage, although neither of those sections are a full actual stage, just portions of ones.

Actually, that would count as a Koopaling stage if we're counting it at all.

Because it's only retro if it's 8-bit!

Speaking seriously, it seems like the gap between "retro" and "modern" is widening. Generally, it's used to refer to the NES or SNES, though I think the Nintendo 64 counts under that too. I think it's partially because there's just less advancements to be had between generations nowadays; Back in the day, each generation was a massive shift in graphics, while starting around the sixth or seventh generation and onward, it's pretty much just better definition. As such, you might need to look things up to see when a game was made, when previously you can tell from a glance alone. AT the very least, though, I think we can say the sixth generation consoles are on the border of being retro.

I personally think retro should just refer to things from the previous century, and having a new term for this one rather than saying that anything 20 years old is retro since the connotation (at least to me) is that almost all adults are super old, which is just silly.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Because it's only retro if it's 8-bit!

Speaking seriously, it seems like the gap between "retro" and "modern" is widening. Generally, it's used to refer to the NES or SNES, though I think the Nintendo 64 counts under that too. I think it's partially because there's just less advancements to be had between generations nowadays; Back in the day, each generation was a massive shift in graphics, while starting around the sixth or seventh generation and onward, it's pretty much just better definition. As such, you might need to look things up to see when a game was made, when previously you can tell from a glance alone. AT the very least, though, I think we can say the sixth generation consoles are on the border of being retro.

To put time gaps in perspective, Krystal from Star Fox is older now than Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Samus, Link, Zelda, and the Ice Climbers were in Melee.

 

[SharkLord]

Yeah apparently Koei did the dialogue for the trailer (which make sense considering that they co-develop three houses with Intelligent systems).

Yep, that's the one. So we know Nintendo dealt with KT for Yuri, the AoC event, and Byleth's trailer.