Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

KILL IT!

KILL IT WITH FIRE!

 

[Eldrake]

CUTENESS? YOU STEAL MEN'S HEARTS AND MAKE THEM YOUR SLAVES!

PERHAPS THE SAME COULD BE SAID OF ALL MON FRANCHISES.

 

[RileyXY1]

If something much larger is possible with Game Freak hopefully staying safe and all that, using the pandemic as a reason against remakes doesn’t make any sense. They’ve likely had some plans already too, and they and Nintendo seem to have been able to find a way to handle the pandemic safely (assuming Game Freak has as well since their office is in the same building as Nintendo now, and Nintendo and Sakurai seem to feel safe enough having him back in a studio so y’know, plus the Pokémon DLC wasn’t delayed or, if it was, it was just by days or a week or so) without having to shift too many plans and stuff.

I still don’t think the anniversary is a good point against anything in particular, especially with other franchises doing the same thing (Mario having some focus on older games, and the same with Zelda, with history timelines etc. just being dropped online), but who knows I guess and we can agree to disagree on that.

They're working from home now using inferior technology.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

They're working from home now using inferior technology.

Which is why a remake wouldn't really be a massive problem.

It's essentially putting a new coat of paint to a game they've already finished.

Reuse the SwSh models for Gen 4 mons already in Gen 8, reuse the source code of the original game they're remaking, copy-paste the lines and dialogues of said game and BAM, they're already halfway done with zero effort, if not more than that.

All they need to do is make models for characters not in SwSh (which could still use existing SwSh stuff as a baseline), remake the maps and remake the music.

 

[Froggy]

Honestly, now that I've finally found a second/co-main I'm not sure what speculation still means for me. I am no longer looking to find someone to fit my playstyle or cover bad matchups. I guess I'm hoping the remaining characters bring something new to the table and improves variety. As such I hope we get one Joker/Shiek like fast character, one heavy(Sephiroth's poor frame data makes me doubtful for this though) and something that brings a new genre of a fighter all together.

I'm thinking for maybe our first true FPS rep, they can have an auto turn around or using the joysticks to move and aim mechanic. Something like that would be pretty cool.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Whoever did the localization for this game are amazing.

 

[RileyXY1]

Which is why a remake wouldn't really be a massive problem.

It's essentially putting a new coat of paint to a game they've already finished.

Reuse the SwSh models for Gen 4 mons already in Gen 8, reuse the source code of the original game they're remaking, copy-paste the lines and dialogues of said game and BAM, they're already halfway done with zero effort, if not more than that.

All they need to do is make models for characters not in SwSh (which could still use existing SwSh stuff as a baseline), remake the maps and remake the music.

Such a thing would also be quite difficult because they can't reuse map assets without it looking weird.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Such a thing would also be quite difficult because they can't reuse map assets without it looking weird.

Hence why I said "remake" instead of "reuse"

They could recycle everything that wouldn't change much on a modern remake, like the coding and the texts, while remaking everything that isn't, like maps or models (which again, can use Gen 8 as a baseline to save on time)

Inferior technology or not, the fact that a lot of work is already done due to it being a remake rather than an original game would be incredibly helpful in managing to get this game out before the end of the year.

 

[RileyXY1]

Hence why I said "remake" instead of "reuse"

They could recycle everything that wouldn't change much on a modern remake, like the coding and the texts, while remaking everything that isn't, like maps or models (which again, can use Gen 8 as a baseline)

Inferior technology or not, the fact that a lot of work is already done due to it being a remake rather than an original game would be incredibly helpful in managing to get this game out before the end of the year.

The fact that a template exists already helps, but they would have to heavily modify that template due to changes in technology between the original DS and the Switch. It would also be weird and somewhat offensive seeing Sinnoh, which is based on Hokkaido, looking like it's a part of the United Kingdom.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

somewhat offensive seeing Sinnoh, which is based on Hokkaido, looking like it's a part of the United Kingdom.

Because clearly, Japanese trees are different than English trees

inb4 someone says I'm racist towards trees

 

[shinhed-echi]

What I'm trying to say is SEGA's IPs and their fanbases are so vast and varied that it'd still make sense if you're a SEGA fan and still aren't satisfied with the current content we got that isn't from Sonic, and thus would be disappointed at our next SEGA person being more of it. 's a matter of perspective and preferences

ar
Here here.
I'm a huge sega nut but i hardly consider Joker or Bayo to be such. To me, any IP from MS to Dreamcast is "real" sega. Not these post console acquisitions.
I don't want to see a Total War Troy character now, but they'd go for that.

 

[cothero]

Looking at this render, i just realized how diverse Lara's moveset could be:

She could be a very versatile and acrobatic fighter. Dual guns, arrows, pickaxe, grenades, shotgun, spear gun... Also, i liked the fact that the guy who rendered this model mixed Lara's old and new designs.

 

[TheCJBrine]

The fact that a template exists already helps, but they would have to heavily modify that template due to changes in technology between the original DS and the Switch. It would also be weird and somewhat offensive seeing Sinnoh, which is based on Hokkaido, looking like it's a part of the United Kingdom.

Why would it look like it’s in Galar? Just change/modify assets if not just make new ones when needed.

Yes, it’d still take work with the assets and some new ideas and whatever, as would putting it all together and testing for issues, but it’d still be easier than making a new gen since most of the ideas and such are already there as is the basic engine, gameplay and all that kinda stuff.

 

[Ivander]

We on the topic of Morrigan again?

On the topic of Morrigan, they can clearly cover-up Morrigan if they need to. Because Capcom has before:

Spoiler: Images

And Morrigan, despite being a succubus, is still fairly tame for the most part. If Sakurai wanted her, I doubt she'd give much difficulty.

 

[Otoad64]

ar
Here here.
I'm a huge sega nut but i hardly consider Joker or Bayo to be such. To me, any IP from MS to Dreamcast is "real" sega. Not these post console acquisitions.
I don't want to see a Total War Troy character now, but they'd go for that.

do you consider monkey ball to be "real" sega?

 

[RileyXY1]

Why would it look like it’s in Galar? Just change/modify assets if not just make new ones when needed.

Yes, it’d still take work with the assets and some new ideas and whatever, as would putting it all together and testing for issues, but it’d still be easier than making a new gen since most of the ideas and such are already there as is the basic engine, gameplay and all that kinda stuff.

Due to the reuse of Sword and Shield assets, which are designed for a region based on the UK. It would be offensive because the UK is infamous for its past of colonialism, especially if the region features Dynamaxing in it.

 

[Guynamednelson]

do you consider monkey ball to be "real" sega?

It was first released in 2001 as an arcade game running on NAOMI hardware, which is Dreamcast-based, so he should.

 

[Froggy]

Looking at this render, i just realized how diverse Lara's moveset could be:

View attachment 299377

She could be a very versatile and acrobatic fighter. Dual guns, arrows, pickaxe, grenades, shotgun, spear gun... Also, i liked the fact that the guy who rendered this model mixed Lara's old and new designs.

Lara works better as base game IMO. I think a purely human character, with no sci-fi or super natural elements is going to be a bit boring at this point.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Due to the reuse of Sword and Shield assets, which are designed for a region based on the UK. It would be offensive because the UK is infamous for its past of colonialism, especially if the region features Dynamaxing in it.

As I said, they could just modify assets (basically building off a model or whatever) or make new ones. Really most that would even be reused feel kinda generic; buildings etc. would be different, so of course they wouldn’t copy/paste Sword/Shield city stuff and whatever, maybe just some terrain textures, basic natural objects/formations and berry trees if anything, as well as character models/skeletons they could modify.

However, the assets alone weren’t my main point, I even acknowledged assets and putting it all together would take work; I’m just saying it’d still be easier than a new gen since they already have ideas and basic stuff to base things off of.

And we may not have to worry about dynamaxing (though I liked it personally), unless they want to break the lore, but even then that wouldn’t be offensive and treating it like the UK, it’s a gameplay mechanic that could fit anywhere if they really wanted it to despite having to break established lore for Galar to do so.

 

[osby]

Lara works better as base game IMO. I think a purely human character, with no sci-fi or super natural elements is going to be a bit boring at this point.

Byleth really doesn't use any supernatural powers in their regular moves and the only distinct thing about Banjo's moveset is not having a gimmick, Lara Croft would be fine.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Due to the reuse of Sword and Shield assets, which are designed for a region based on the UK. It would be offensive because the UK is infamous for its past of colonialism, especially if the region features Dynamaxing in it.

You're... really reaching for why Gen 4 remakes aren't coming, aren't you?

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Byleth really doesn't use any supernatural powers in their regular moves and the only distinct thing about Banjo's moveset is not having a gimmick, Lara Croft would be fine.

Byleth shoots lasers and their sword is somehow a whip, pretty supernatural to me.
Banjos gimick seems to be Wonderwing, as theres nothing else in the game like it to my knowledge.
That being said, I do think Laura would be fine. Her gimick would probably be centered around her use of multiple different weapon archetypes, kinda like Byleth and to a lesser extent Steve.

 

[Froggy]

Byleth really doesn't use any supernatural powers in their regular moves and the only distinct thing about Banjo's moveset is not having a gimmick, Lara Croft would be fine.

People point to Byleth as what is okay, forgetting that as a DLC, Byleth was not okay and the fan backlash was worse than it has ever been before. You can point to any number of reasons as to why that is the case, the point being Byleth is a terrible standard to use as to what is okay for a DLC. We don't know the actual sale numbers for the DLC, but going off fan reaction/views/back-lash it would stand to reason Byleth's sales were worst than other chars in the pass. I'm sure Nintendo pays attention to these things.

As such, I reiterate Lara, being a human(even more realistic than Byleth) with no sci-fi or super natural elements would be a poor choice and for more suitable for base game.

 

[osby]

Due to the reuse of Sword and Shield assets, which are designed for a region based on the UK. It would be offensive because the UK is infamous for its past of colonialism, especially if the region features Dynamaxing in it.

If UK is so offensive to Japanese people, why Gamefreak, a Japanese company, made a game based on it?

Also, the whole reason Dynamaxing is thing is how popular kaijus are in Japan so I don't get why that's an issue.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

People point to Byleth as what is okay, forgetting that as a DLC, Byleth was not okay and the fan backlash was worse than it has ever been before. You can point to any number of reasons as to why that is the case, the point being Byleth is a terrible standard to use as to what is okay for a DLC. We don't know the actual sale numbers for the DLC, but going off fan reaction/views/back-lash it would stand to reason Byleth's sales were worst than other chars in the pass. I'm sure Nintendo pays attention to these things.

As such, I reiterate Lara, being a human(even more realistic than Byleth) with no sci-fi or super natural elements would be a poor choice and for more suitable for base game.

Byleths moveset is the only thing being compared here so using factors like backlash doesn’t make much sense as most of the backlash was centered around “Blue haired anime swordsman” and “Fire Emblem doesn’t need an eighth character!”
Byleths moveset was the one thing people actually seemed to like.

 

[Froggy]

Byleths moveset is the only thing being compared here so using factors like backlash doesn’t make much sense as most of the back lash was centered around “Blue haired anime swordsman” and “Fire Emblem doesn’t need an eighth character!”
Byleths moveset was the one thing people actually seemed to like.

When talking about Lara I really wasn't thinking about her moveset, but the character as a whole(which by proxy extends to her moveset, but thats incidental). Its more a matter of public perception than functional mechanics. Granted I don't think fan-reaction to Lara would be as bad as Byleth, but I think thier would be a lot of people feeling like what she brings to the table, with the exception of being a gaming icon, is pretty lackluster.

 

[SharkLord]

Doesn't Lara get her hands on legendary weapons or something? That sounds supernatural enough to me.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

When talking about Lara I really wasn't thinking about her moveset, but the character as a whole(which by proxy extends to her moveset, but thats incidental). Its more a matter of public perception than functional mechanics. Granted I don't think fan-reaction to Lara would be as bad as Byleth, but I think thier would be a lot of people feeling like what she brings to the table, with the exception of being a gaming icon, is pretty lackluster.

I mean, Byleth and Laura are nothing alike. Comparing them with anything other than moveset doesn’t make much sense imo. If Laura brought along all the weapons shown in Cotheros picture, I feel Laura would be seen as fine as every other character.

 

[Froggy]

I mean, Byleth and Laura are nothing alike. Comparing them with anything other than moveset doesn’t make much sense imo. If Laura brought along all the weapons shown in Cotheros picture, I feel Laura would be seen as fine as every other character.

Well I explained the dimension under which they are the same. Humans with no sci-fi or super natural elements. They could make a decent enough moveset out of her for sure, but to some degree it will be boring. Not really brining anything new to the table, damn near an agglomeration of Snake(Grenades), Joker(Guns), Steve(Pick axe) and other regular moves we've already seen before.

 

[cothero]

Lara works better as base game IMO. I think a purely human character, with no sci-fi or super natural elements is going to be a bit boring at this point.

Hmmmm... Kay.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Well I explained the dimension under which they are the same. Humans with no sci-fi or super natural elements. They could make a decent enough moveset out of her for sure, but to some degree it will be boring. Not really brining anything new to the table, damn near an agglomeration of Snake(Grenades), Joker(Guns), Steve(Pick axe) and other regular moves we've already seen before.

But, Byleth shoots lasers and has a whip sword, thats supernatural ain’t it?
And as Sharklord pointed out, she gets her hands on special weapons.
And lets face it, they would work nothing alike if half these weapons got into Smash.

 

[Froggy]

But, Byleth shoots lasers and has a whip sword, thats supernatural ain’t it?
And as Sharklord pointed out, she gets her hands on special weapons.
And lets face it, they would work nothing alike if half these weapons got into Smash.

I think those special weapons are the only thing worthy of being a final smash, and they are such a small part of her lore that I don't see them being incorporated into her regular moveset.

And to whoever said Lara would be about switching weapons like Byleth, you need to remember the switching weapons schtick was done by Byleth and again by MinMin and then yet again by Steve. If you don't see the issue with doing it a 4th time then I'm not sure what to say to you. Clearly Nintendo sees the problem with it, as MinMin's design was about switching weapons as much as it was about the overwhelming range of her attacks, and Steve was as much about building things and maintaining resources. Lara centering around switching weapons would be entirety underwhelming.

 

[SharkLord]

I think those special weapons are the only thing worthy of being a final smash, and they are such a small part of her lore that I don't see them being incorporated into her regular moveset.

And to whoever said Lara would be about switching weapons like Byleth, you need to remember the switching weapons schtick was done by Byleth and again by MinMin and then yet again by Steve. If you don't see the issue with doing it a 4th time then I'm not sure what to say to you. Clearly Nintendo sees the problem with it, as MinMin's design was about switching weapons as much as it was about the overwhelming range of her attacks, and Steve was as much about building things and maintaining resources. Lara centering around switching weapons would be entirety underwhelming.

I mean, it's not like Nintendo had a problem with three distance demons in such close proximity, right?

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I think a purely human character, with no sci-fi or super natural elements is going to be a bit boring at this point.

Why? If anything that would make her more interesting because she would be more unique from the other fighters. We have tons of supernatural characters already.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

I think those special weapons are the only thing worthy of being a final smash, and they are such a small part of her lore that I don't see them being incorporated into her regular moveset.

And to whoever said Lara would be about switching weapons like Byleth, you need to remember the switching weapons schtick was done by Byleth and again by MinMin and then yet again by Steve. If you don't see the issue with doing it a 4th time then I'm not sure what to say to you. Clearly Nintendo sees the problem with it, as MinMin's design was about switching weapons as much as it was about the overwhelming range of her attacks, and Steve was as much about building things and maintaining resources. Lara centering around switching weapons would be entirety underwhelming.

Not really, these are entirely different weapons we’re talking about. Only the main idea of using different weapons is used. Also, the two examples you speak about are clearly because they would need to be included to give these characters justice. You can’t have Min Min without overwhelming range and you can’t have Steve without crafting.
Laura using a variety of guns, melee weapons, and grenades isn’t done by anyone else.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Hmmm, what's the worst take of the day so far? "A Gen 4 remake can't reuse assets from Gen 8 because of colonialism" or "Lara would be poorly received because she's a human"? I genuinely can't decide.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Lara works better as base game IMO. I think a purely human character, with no sci-fi or super natural elements is going to be a bit boring at this point.

Anything Steve can do, a standard human can do.

Looking at this render, i just realized how diverse Lara's moveset could be:

View attachment 299377

She could be a very versatile and acrobatic fighter. Dual guns, arrows, pickaxe, grenades, shotgun, spear gun... Also, i liked the fact that the guy who rendered this model mixed Lara's old and new designs.

My moveset, I've come to love. I took a lot of inspiration from the internet.

LARA CROFT

Style: ACTION SURVIVAL

Standard Special: Dual Pistols. Lara holds B and rapidly fires her pistols. Once she hits a target, it locks on. When locked onto a target, she cannot Shield or Dodge without releasing B. However, if she does use the Shield button, this gives her the ability to lock onto a second target if they are near the first target, and each of the two targets gets hit at half speed (as they each only have one pistol locked on). Lara has full mobility while shooting.

Side Special: Bow and Arrow. Lara can press the combination multiple times to switch arrow types, indicated by a meter on the bottom. The options are

• Standard Arrow (slightly faster than others)
• Fire Arrow (slightly more damage)
• Poison Arrow (Damage that lngers)
• Explosive Arrow (Slightly More Radius of Damage
• Piercing Arrow (can go through opponent and hit multiple)

Up Special: Skilled Climber. Lara throws out a grappling hook. It is longer than the average tether grab, and Is able to be aimed. If it lands, Lara climbs up the rope, and then can continue to climb up the stage by another half of the rope’s length, regardless of the angle. The hook will also cause average damage if it lands on an opponent, and will push them out of the way to securely attach to a ledge if Lara is in the air.

Down Special: Endure. Lara is known to survive, and this move helps her in multiple ways. For several frames once pressed, Lara will enter an invincible mode. This will mean she can survive a couple of hits without taking damage or knockback, break a counter used on her, move through rapid fire attacks. It is also used passively to help her survive for slighter longer when swimming, and passively keeps her from taking damage or effect from stage hazards.

In stark contrast to other characters, and to emphasize that Lara is a human thrown into other worldy adventures- her Smash attacks, not her specials, will use animations of the items in her more magical explorations- though they will not be as versatile as her specials.

 

[ShrimpScampi]

I don't have much personal attachment to Lara, but I don't think her being a normal/non-supernatural person would be a problem when it comes to giving her an interesting moveset. The idea of her being able to pull out a ton of weapons & survival tools for her moveset sounds pretty cool tbh. Reminds me a bit of Chris Redfield's moveset in MvC3 when literally half of that game's roster was superheroes/supervillains.

If Lara used a bunch of different weapons, I really only see it as comparable to Steve rather than Byleth or Min Min. Byleth and Min Min have a small number of weapons to swap between (the four Relics for Byleth, the three arms for Min Min) and there's a clear structure as to which types of moves use which weapon, whereas Steve just kind of puts everything and the kitchen sink into his attacks. I could see Lara's weapon usage being similar, since she has a ton of survival tools. Even then, though, I would imagine Lara's mobility would make her play much differently than Steve -- she seems like she'd be an agile character.

 

[Froggy]

I mean, it's not like Nintendo had a problem with three distance demons in such close proximity, right?

Byleth and MinMin as distance demons cannot be compared to each other in any meaningful way. Saying Byleth had more range than the Belmonts was damn near false advertising, while MinMin has probably more than twice the range of anything we've seen the game(IE they had to step up the range game for it to be acceptable). Sephiroth was less about being a distance demon, so much as being a villain and the one wing angel mechanic, him having a lot of range was not the selling point of the character.

Why? If anything that would make her more interesting because she would be more unique from the other fighters. We have tons of supernatural characters already.

In that specific regard, this would be true. The problem is being more realistic is a limiation of what can be done with the character, and its not really something thats a good selling point in a game where people are more and more used to extr

 

[pupNapoleon]

Byleth and MinMin as distance demons cannot be compared to each other in any meaningful way. Saying Byleth had more range than the Belmonts was damn near false advertising, while MinMin has probably more than twice the range of anything we've seen the game(IE they had to step up the range game for it to be acceptable). Sephiroth was less about being a distance demon, so much as being a villain and the one wing angel mechanic, him having a lot of range was not the selling point of the character.



In that specific regard, this would be true. The problem is being more realistic is a limiation of what can be done with the character, and its not really something thats a good selling point in a game where people are more and more used to extr

Thinking she couldn't be unique either shows a lack of imagination, or a lack of understanding of her games. We don't even have a survival based character. Even PSASBR did, in Nathan Drake.